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Hi Mike,
I just was doing a post to you and there was an earthquake, see, I fear God – I take that to mean 'stop'!! lol.
Much love Mike.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,10:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2013,11:39) Kerwin, if you cannot come to a rational and sensible understanding of the scriptures – AS THEY WERE ACTUALLY WRITTEN – then you need to pray for understanding of those words – AS THEY WERE ACTUALLY WRITTEN. You will NEVER come to the truth of scriptures by ADDING your own words, thereby completely CHANGING the teaching – just so the teaching aligns with what you WANT it to teach.
Mike, is that like how the OT tells us that there was only one God and that only one God created the entire universe with his own (moving) spirit and His own (spoken) word, and that, obviously, the spirit and the word was God's own spirit and God's own word, the spirit and the word being part of the entirety of the one God, just as your word and your spirit is a part of the entirety of you, then…… how do you change that entire understanding to mean that the word that is a part of God in John 1:1 can, instead, mean “another god”, or another godlike created creature, when the scriptures say:Deuteronony 4
[35] To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him. ”
[39] Know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deuteronomy 32
[39] “`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me.
2 Samuel 7
[22] Therefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, and there is no God besides thee.
2 Samuel 22
[32] “For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?
1 Kings 8
[60] That all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other.
2 Kings 19
[15]”O LORD the God of Israel, who art enthroned above the cherubim, thou art the God, thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
Nehemiah 9
[6] And Ezra said: “Thou art the LORD, thou alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and thou preservest all of them; and the host of heaven worships thee.
Psalm 18
[31] For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?
Isaiah 37
[20] So now, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou alone art the LORD.”Isaiah 43
[10] “You are my witnesses,” says the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am He.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
[11] I, I am the LORD,
and besides me there is no savior.Isaiah 44
[6] Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
[7] Who is like me? Let him proclaim it,
let him declare and set it forth before me.
Who has announced from of old the things to come?
Let them tell us what is yet to be.
[8] Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”Isaiah 45
[5] I am the LORD, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I gird you, though you do not know me,
[6] that men may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
[7] I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things.
[8] “Shower, O heavens, from above,
and let the skies rain down righteousness;
let the earth open, that salvation may sprout forth,
and let it cause righteousness to spring up also;
I the LORD have created it.
[9] “Woe to him who strives with his Maker,
an earthen vessel with the potter!
Does the clay say to him who fashions it, `What are you making'?
or `Your work has no handles'?
[10] Woe to him who says to a father, `What are you begetting?'
or to a woman, `With what are you in travail?'”
[11] Thus says the LORD,
the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
“Will you question me about my children,
or command me concerning the work of my hands?
[12] I made the earth,
and created man upon it;
it was my hands that stretched out the heavens,
and I commanded all their host.[14]`God is with you only, and there is no other,
no god besides him.'”[18] For thus says the LORD,
who created the heavens
(he is God!),
who formed the earth and made it
(he established it;
he did not create it a chaos,
he formed it to be inhabited!):
“I am the LORD, and there is no other.
[19] I did not speak in secret,
in a land of darkness;
I did not say to the offspring of Jacob,
`Seek me in chaos.'
I the LORD speak the truth,
I declare what is right.
[20] “Assemble yourselves and come,
draw near together,
you survivors of the nations!
They have no knowledge
who carry about their wooden idols,
and keep on praying to a god
that cannot save.
[21] Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.
[22] “Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.Genesis 1
[1] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
[2] The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.[1] In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
—————-
To me, we are all on a journey and my understanding may not be the same as your understanding. I listen and I seek and I pray, and when something is shown to me, I wait on God to maybe one day show me some more.
Me and Gene and Kerwin and Ed J and others understand each other even if we may not quite understand the totality of what the others understand, as we are all at different stages as well.
And just because your understanding may be a bit different than mine and ours, I see you as absolutely no different than myself. There is no 'better' and no 'worse' to me.
2besee……….This is the post I was referencing by saying “amen brother”Peace and love ………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2013,17:21) Mike ……… Neither were more important then the other…………..
So then Jesus and John were EQUALLY our “Lord” on earth? And the only name under heaven by which we can be saved is “Jesus AND John the Baptist”?Hmmmmm……………..
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,17:38) ……….the scriptures say: Deuteronony 4
[35] To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him. “
Don't those same inspired scriptures say, “there are those called gods, in heaven and on earth, as indeed there ARE many gods…”?Didn't Jehovah Himself foretell that Jesus would be called a mighty god? Doesn't Jehovah Himself call His Son a god in Hebrews 1? Doesn't Jehovah Himself call Satan “the god of Ekron”? Doesn't Jehovah Himself say, “I said you were gods………”? Doesn't Jehovah Himself say the gods of the nations are demons? Wasn't it Jehovah Himself who “punished the gods of Egypt” along with Pharaoh and the firstborns?
How are you going to align your LITERAL understanding of verses like Deuteronomy 4:35 with those other verses I mentioned?
Please explain to me how you can insist that only ONE god is taught in the scriptures, when it is so PLAINLY OBVIOUS that the scriptures are LOADED with MANY different gods?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2013,13:29) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,17:38) ……….the scriptures say: Deuteronony 4
[35] To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him. “
Don't those same inspired scriptures say, “there are those called gods, in heaven and on earth, as indeed there ARE many gods…”?Didn't Jehovah Himself foretell that Jesus would be called a mighty god? Doesn't Jehovah Himself call His Son a god in Hebrews 1? Doesn't Jehovah Himself call Satan “the god of Ekron”? Doesn't Jehovah Himself say, “I said you were gods………”? Doesn't Jehovah Himself say the gods of the nations are demons? Wasn't it Jehovah Himself who “punished the gods of Egypt” along with Pharaoh and the firstborns?
How are you going to align your LITERAL understanding of verses like Deuteronomy 4:35 with those other verses I mentioned?
Please explain to me how you can insist that only ONE god is taught in the scriptures, when it is so PLAINLY OBVIOUS that the scriptures are LOADED with MANY different gods?
Good question Mike.
(see, simple, and interesting, question!)
One that I think about myself.Will get back to you on that one shortly.
2bee
Quote is that like how the OT tells us that there was only one God and that only one God created the entire universe with his own (moving) spirit and His own (spoken) word, and that, obviously, the spirit and the word was God's own spirit and God's own word, the spirit and the word being part of the entirety of the one God, just as your word and your spirit is a part of the entirety of you, then…… how do you change that entire understanding to mean that the word that is a part of God in John 1:1 can, instead, mean “another god”, or another godlike created creature, when the scriptures say: wen and who are the 100,000,000 angels that God created ,were those siting in the audience while God was creating all things
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2013,13:45) 2bee Quote is that like how the OT tells us that there was only one God and that only one God created the entire universe with his own (moving) spirit and His own (spoken) word, and that, obviously, the spirit and the word was God's own spirit and God's own word, the spirit and the word being part of the entirety of the one God, just as your word and your spirit is a part of the entirety of you, then…… how do you change that entire understanding to mean that the word that is a part of God in John 1:1 can, instead, mean “another god”, or another godlike created creature, when the scriptures say: wen and who are the 100,000,000 angels that God created ,were those siting in the audience while God was creating all things
Yes T, I know your understanding, but can you show me a single verse in scripture that tells us that the Angels created anything at all?Just a verse.
Mike,
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
This has happened.
Think about this as fulfilled prophecy.
Jesus has been called all of those things by Christianity all over the world.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 20 2013,11:00) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,10:38)
To me, we are all on a journey and my understanding may not be the same as your understanding. I listen and I seek and I pray, and when something is shown to me, I wait on God to maybe one day show me some more.Me and Gene and Kerwin and Ed J and others understand each other even if we may not quite understand the totality of what the others understand, as we are all at different stages as well.
And just because your understanding may be a bit different than mine and ours, I see you as absolutely no different than myself. There is no 'better' and no 'worse' to me.
2besee……….This is the post I was referencing by saying “amen brother”Peace and love ………………..gene
Yes, I agree as well!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,17:44) I have never liked answering questions.
I suppose if my doctrine was based on whatever I WANTED to be the truth, and not on what the scriptures actually teach, I wouldn't like answering questions either.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 19 2013,18:57) Mike, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
This has happened.
Think about this as fulfilled prophecy.
Jesus has been called all of those things by Christianity all over the world.
So then your take is that God was saying Jesus would FALSELY be called all these things?Hmmmm………….
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2013,19:14) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,10:38)
Me and Gene and Kerwin and Ed J and others understand each other even if we may not quite understand the totality of what the others understand, as we are all at different stages as well.
Yes, I agree as well!
I suggest you BEGIN your scriptural understanding by NOT ADDING YOUR OWN WORDS into the scriptures in an effort to FORCE them into teaching what you guys WANT them to teach.When you've begun your scriptural journey by following that simple guideline, you will be sure to find yourselves understanding the scriptures like me, Pierre, and t8 do.
Mike, please read this it is found here:
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011….ly-true
“Many a preacher today teaches that we are gods, or little gods, based on the incorrect interpretation of scripture. Some are very subtle in the way they teach this message, others come out right and just say it.
The verse they will show you to try prove their point is John 10:34 ”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?
But let me explain what Jesus really meant:
Pslam 82 was written AGAINST certain unjust rulers in Israel’s history. Men of high distinction (Judges/Rulers) were almost seen as gods because of the power they wielded over the nation. The problem is these men were UNJUST. Verse 82:2 says: ”How long will you judge unjustly, And showpartiality to the wicked? and verses 6-7 say, 6 “I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.” 7 But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.” So these rulers are not gods, they were given this name by mere men, but were they still children of God? Yes. But they will die like everyone else. So the point Jesus was making was that if unjust rulers can be called gods (by men), how can the Jews who wanted to stone Him object to Him saying that he was the Son of God?
Can you see how easily scripture gets twisted and the next minute you have men and women running around teaching New Age teachings under the banner of Christianity.
BEWARE of ANYONE who tells you that you can be a God or Christ. When you become a born again Christian you grow to become more Christ-like, you DO NOT become like Christ or a Christ or anything Divine for that matter. However in Charismatic churches you do; you become a little god – ‘Faith’ becomes an actual force that you wield at your command as you speak things into existence. This is totally and utterly occult. The New Age religion believes in something similar, that each person is a god/goddess, they just have not realised it yet – a god trapped in a human body part of a huge cosmos – trying to turn the world into one spiritual tower of Babel.”
Now you see further to that, the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox church teach that 'God became Man so that Man could become God'.
Actually, Psalm 82 speaks of the “Divine Council” of God – the same ones who met with God in Job.
God is speaking about how they were entrusted to rule over the various kingdoms of man, but did not do it in a way pleasing to their own God, Jehovah. Just look at verse 1, 2B:
God stands in the assembly of the gods; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.
2B, will you continue to post slanted articles in which the author bends over backwards to protect the Bible from itself? Or will you SCRIPTURALLY address the other gods I mentioned in my last post?
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,06:50) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2013,13:45) 2bee Quote is that like how the OT tells us that there was only one God and that only one God created the entire universe with his own (moving) spirit and His own (spoken) word, and that, obviously, the spirit and the word was God's own spirit and God's own word, the spirit and the word being part of the entirety of the one God, just as your word and your spirit is a part of the entirety of you, then…… how do you change that entire understanding to mean that the word that is a part of God in John 1:1 can, instead, mean “another god”, or another godlike created creature, when the scriptures say: wen and who are the 100,000,000 angels that God created ,were those siting in the audience while God was creating all things
Yes T, I know your understanding, but can you show me a single verse in scripture that tells us that the Angels created anything at all?Just a verse.
2beethat is not what I said or think ,but you did not answer my question ;every angel in heaven as a job to do ;they are not creators but have been created ,
that is my point ;they are servants of God for Godly works (whatever that may be )
note that if you working at the FORD plan assembling the cars you are not the creator of that car, only a participant in the production of them
Actually, Psalm 82 speaks of the “Divine Council” of God – the same ones who met with God in Job.
board meeting ,all VP with the President
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,08:07) Mike, please read this it is found here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011….ly-true
“Many a preacher today teaches that we are gods, or little gods, based on the incorrect interpretation of scripture. Some are very subtle in the way they teach this message, others come out right and just say it.
The verse they will show you to try prove their point is John 10:34 ”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?
But let me explain what Jesus really meant:
Pslam 82 was written AGAINST certain unjust rulers in Israel’s history. Men of high distinction (Judges/Rulers) were almost seen as gods because of the power they wielded over the nation. The problem is these men were UNJUST. Verse 82:2 says: ”How long will you judge unjustly, And showpartiality to the wicked? and verses 6-7 say, 6 “I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.” 7 But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.” So these rulers are not gods, they were given this name by mere men, but were they still children of God? Yes. But they will die like everyone else. So the point Jesus was making was that if unjust rulers can be called gods (by men), how can the Jews who wanted to stone Him object to Him saying that he was the Son of God?
Can you see how easily scripture gets twisted and the next minute you have men and women running around teaching New Age teachings under the banner of Christianity.
BEWARE of ANYONE who tells you that you can be a God or Christ. When you become a born again Christian you grow to become more Christ-like, you DO NOT become like Christ or a Christ or anything Divine for that matter. However in Charismatic churches you do; you become a little god – ‘Faith’ becomes an actual force that you wield at your command as you speak things into existence. This is totally and utterly occult. The New Age religion believes in something similar, that each person is a god/goddess, they just have not realised it yet – a god trapped in a human body part of a huge cosmos – trying to turn the world into one spiritual tower of Babel.”
2beesee,All gods means is children of the most high. It is speaking of all the children of Israel as all of them received the law and not just certain rulers. I am not sure why anyone misunderstands the quote as Jesus interpretation is “if he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came”
I also have trouble understanding why people have trouble understanding that God's children are gods, especially as he paraphrases Deuteronomy 14:1 which states “Ye are the children of the Lord your God” and he literally states it in Psalms 82:6. It is not the only place they are literally called gods, as they called gods in Psalms 97:7 as well.
Some, who's ignorance is obvious, equate being a god to being the same kind as Yawheh. There is but one God.
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