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Hi Mike,
It is going to take me a while to get through all of your posts (I have urgent things now to tend to).
So, later!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2013,06:54) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten,who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Kerwin and 2B, let's discuss this one scripture for a minute. We'll work it back to front:
……full of grace and truth.
1. Who was full of “grace” and “truth”? (John 1:17 might help you to answer this one.)….who came from the Father……..
2. Who “came from the Father”? (John 16:28 will help you with this one.)We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten……..
3. Whose glory did John and the others see? (John 2:11)
4. Who is the ONLY one in existence that would have the glory of the only begotten of God? (Please answer this one.)
5. Who do we all know is the only begotten of God? (John 3:16, etc.)6. Does “Jesus Christ” fit perfectly as the answer to all 5 previous questions? YES or NO?
7. Does the answer “Holy Spirit” fit all 5? YES or NO?
8. Does the answer “God Himself” fit all 5? YES or NO?
Mike,
I have not the time to look into these things at present. If God so wills I hope to look into them in the future.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,12:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2013,06:54) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten,who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Kerwin and 2B, let's discuss this one scripture for a minute. We'll work it back to front:
……full of grace and truth.
1. Who was full of “grace” and “truth”? (John 1:17 might help you to answer this one.)….who came from the Father……..
2. Who “came from the Father”? (John 16:28 will help you with this one.)We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten……..
3. Whose glory did John and the others see? (John 2:11)
4. Who is the ONLY one in existence that would have the glory of the only begotten of God? (Please answer this one.)
5. Who do we all know is the only begotten of God? (John 3:16, etc.)6. Does “Jesus Christ” fit perfectly as the answer to all 5 previous questions? YES or NO?
7. Does the answer “Holy Spirit” fit all 5? YES or NO?
8. Does the answer “God Himself” fit all 5? YES or NO?
Mike,
I have not the time to look into these things at present. If God so wills I hope to look into them in the future.
Mike,The clause “full of grace and truth” is only in John 1:14 of the King James version.
“grace and truth came by” is also used only once and that is in John 1:17.
I am uncertain if “came by” and “full of” mean the same thing. I believe there is some relationship and that the Word made flesh is Jesus Christ. Right now my thought process is slow and God willing I will get back to you at a more opportune time.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2013,12:51) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 15 2013,14:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2013,12:16)
2B, are you so proud that you are willing to add your own words into the scriptures, thereby changing the entire teaching John wrote down for us? Or are you humble enough to let the scriptures teach YOU – instead of the other way around?
Mike, are you so proud that you are willing to add your own words into the scriptures (the word was a god), therby changing the entire teaching “John” wrote down for us? Or are you humble enough to let the scriptures teach YOU – instead of the other way around?
Hmmmmm………….. still trying to justify ADDING a word into scripture by inflammatory means, 2B?
Hi Mike, I only copied what you said to me! And changed a few words.That would mean that we are as bad as each other, but it was you who said it first!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2013,11:46) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 15 2013,15:05) Mike, is a man and his spirit one?
Matthew 26:41
……..the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.Which part above is the man, 2B?
Is it ever said in scripture: the spirit OF man?
If it is (which it is), it is clear evidence that the spirit OF man cannot actually BE the man it is OF.
The word “OF” indicates possession, 2B. Ie: the hair OF Mike cannot actually BE Mike himself.
Do you understand this very simple concept that most kids are taught in grade school?
Quote Do you understand this very simple concept that most kids are taught in grade school? Mike, we do not learn things of heaven and God and Spirit in grade school, do we.
The reason that I started this thread was because I could not get out of my head 'In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God'. I honestly could not get it out of my head.
Since I have thought about it and been shown a few things by prayer, I have a part understanding but not fully.
Everything should be done in God's time.
I came to learn that only one God created the heaven and the earth, through his own word and his own spirit.
I came to learn that nobody knows the Father but the Son and this verse ties in with 'nobody knows the mind or thoughts except the spirit'.I come to learn that spirit gives birth to spirit and flesh gives birth to flesh and that this somehow ties in also with those other verses.
I do not believe that John 1:1 should read 'the Word was a god'.
And this is all that I know so far.
I really do not think I have any more to say in this thread, ATM, until something else comes to me.
I know that you have asked questions, etc, and also mentioned something about teaching (us?).
But, I wait on God to teach me, I cannot learn from man. Some things I can, some things I cannot.
Hope you understand Mike.If I have any more to contribute, I will.
I will take the time to read through your posts properly though Mike (later on) and ,see what i can 'see'. k?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,13:43) I am uncertain if “came by” and “full of” mean the same thing.
Actually Kerwin, this is a fairly simple connection.14 The Word came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received blessings.
17 Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Why can't you see what is so obvious to me and countless others?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,13:43) I believe……… that the Word made flesh is Jesus Christ.
Kerwin, there is no “Word-Made-Flesh”. We've already discussed this before, and your understanding is prohibited from being the truth because of the Greek word “kai”…….. remember? The phrase “and dwelled among us” eliminates your understanding of a person who is called by the title, “The Word-Made-Flesh”.Instead, a person with the title “The Word of God” was made flesh, AND dwelled among us. You must account for that word “and”, Kerwin.
You are, however, finally on the right track that the Word was (and still is) Jesus Christ. You now only need to carry the thought the rest of the way through, and understand that the Word was already Jesus Christ – even before he was made flesh.
Oh, and I would still like to see your answers to my questions from the last post. They are only one-word answers, so it shouldn't take too much of your time.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 17 2013,16:22) I will take the time to read through your posts properly though Mike (later on) and ,see what i can 'see'. k?
Hi 2B,Just answer the 8 questions from my recent post when you get the time.
They are only one-word answers, and so it shouldn't take too much of your time.
To answer your question, “NO”, I haven't yet been baptized as an adult. It weighs heavy on my mind, and I really need to take that step.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2013,11:56) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 17 2013,16:22) I will take the time to read through your posts properly though Mike (later on) and ,see what i can 'see'. k?
Hi 2B,Just answer the 8 questions from my recent post when you get the time.
They are only one-word answers, and so it shouldn't take too much of your time.
okay.Quote To answer your question, “NO”, I haven't yet been baptized as an adult. It weighs heavy on my mind, and I really need to take that step. GOOD Mike.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2013,04:49) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,13:43) I am uncertain if “came by” and “full of” mean the same thing.
Actually Kerwin, this is a fairly simple connection.14 The Word came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received blessings.
17 Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Why can't you see what is so obvious to me and countless others?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,13:43) I believe……… that the Word made flesh is Jesus Christ.
Kerwin, there is no “Word-Made-Flesh”. We've already discussed this before, and your understanding is prohibited from being the truth because of the Greek word “kai”…….. remember? The phrase “and dwelled among us” eliminates your understanding of a person who is called by the title, “The Word-Made-Flesh”.Instead, a person with the title “The Word of God” was made flesh, AND dwelled among us. You must account for that word “and”, Kerwin.
You are, however, finally on the right track that the Word was (and still is) Jesus Christ. You now only need to carry the thought the rest of the way through, and understand that the Word was already Jesus Christ – even before he was made flesh.
Oh, and I would still like to see your answers to my questions from the last post. They are only one-word answers, so it shouldn't take too much of your time.
Mike,So Scripture is stating grace and truth comes from he that is full of grace and truth and by Jesus Christ.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 18 2013,06:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2013,11:56) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 17 2013,16:22) I will take the time to read through your posts properly though Mike (later on) and ,see what i can 'see'. k?
Hi 2B,Just answer the 8 questions from my recent post when you get the time.
They are only one-word answers, and so it shouldn't take too much of your time.
okay.Quote To answer your question, “NO”, I haven't yet been baptized as an adult. It weighs heavy on my mind, and I really need to take that step. GOOD Mike.
2beesee,I have been immersed twice, both times it was my choice. I was a child the first time and an adult the second. My doctrine has changed significantly since then.
Mike.
Quote ….who came from the Father……..
2. Who “came from the Father”? (John 16:28 will help you with this one.)A whole lot
John the Baptist, John 1:6;
His baptism, Mark 11:30;
everything a man receives, John 3:27.
The Christ,
The word of God, Isaiah 55:11Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2013,15:11) 2beesee, I have been immersed twice, both times it was my choice. I was a child the first time and an adult the second. My doctrine has changed significantly since then.
I thought that you had been:) and twice too.
I think that you have the patience of a St!!Quote (2besee @ Jan. 18 2013,14:51) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2013,15:11) 2beesee, I have been immersed twice, both times it was my choice. I was a child the first time and an adult the second. My doctrine has changed significantly since then.
I thought that you had been:) and twice too.
I think that you have the patience of a St!!
2beesee,God has chosen to teach me much, but I have much to learn still.
2besee………I have been also baptized twice , once when I was 21 years old, but did no receive the Holy Spirit, so I did not go back to that church again, and when I was 29 years old I was Baptized again and after the elders of that church laid their hands on my head and prayed over me , I then received the Holy Spirit , I literally felt the Spirit enter me, I have had hundreds of miricales happen in my life. The scripture that says ( the spirit bears witness with our spirit that we ar the sons of God ) is true brother.
WHEN I ASKED ABOUT GOD SPEAKING ( First person through Jesus' mouth at times ) And you understood it, I know the spirit had revealed that unto you, Most cannot make that distinction.
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,20:06) Mike, So Scripture is stating grace and truth comes from he that is full of grace and truth and by Jesus Christ.
So then you understand it this way:14 The Word came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
16 From the fullness of his (the Word's) grace we have all received blessings.
17 Oh, and by the way, Grace and truth ALSO came by Jesus Christ – even though, up to now, I haven't been talking about him.
Okay Kerwin. Whatever.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 17 2013,23:27) Mike. Quote ….who came from the Father……..
2. Who “came from the Father”? (John 16:28 will help you with this one.)A whole lot
John the Baptist, John 1:6;
His baptism, Mark 11:30;
everything a man receives, John 3:27.
The Christ,
The word of God, Isaiah 55:11
Good Kerwin.Now, which of your answers came from the Father and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?
Okay,
Since apparently, none of you non-preexisters cares to actually answer my 8 simple questions from the other post, I'll move on to my next point:
John 1:15
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”It seems we all (Kerwin, 2B, and myself) agree verse 15 was written about the Word of God from verse 1, right?
So how do you guys explain verse 30?
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Kerwin, is this another case of the same exact thing being said about the Word AND about Jesus?
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