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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2012,04:37) 2besee………..Me and Kerwin both agree with you about Jesus not preexisting his berth on this earth. This DOCTRINE of “SEPARATION” that has infected the church from the very beginning started by the Gnostic's, and now the Trinitarians and Protestants and JW'S. In fact There is hardly no denominations on earth that don't believe in the preexistence of Jesus, some say he was GOD Almighty himself, others say he was a demigod (like many here believe) and some say he preexisted as Michael the Arch Angel as the JW's do. But all these false teachers remove Jesus form his “Exact” Identity with Us as a pure human being Who came into “EXISTENCE” by his berth on this earth, born of human stock through the same berth process we all go through, a Human who had to learn and grow up Just EXACTLY as we do, who love Life Just as we Do Who did not want to die no more then we would and begged God to allow this Cup of death to pass from him, hardly sounds like a man who preexisted in a past existence and would have been familiar with the death process before right and when he Yelled out My God , My God, has thou forsaken Me? None of that sound like a God, or demigod or Angel, who preexisted and was used to the death and rebirth process if you as Me. Any way glad you are here , it seem every time i start to get tired God send someone else to Help, he has many times in the Past , my hope you will not get tired of us and leave also. I believe Mike is capable of coming to understand these things if he would just let go of some of his past convections, but it is all in the Hand of our GOD anyway.
Peace and lvoe to you and yours………………………………………………….gene
God bless you Gene we understand each other (:We love Jesus, Jesus went through the same sufferings, similar, to what we did and have and still will go through. We can understand Jesus and Jesus can understand us. He was as Human as you and I. He was tempted. He could have failed, but He did not.
Jesus is our friend, our Brother and our elder. He has a God too, and a Father. His God is our God and His Father is our Father.
'Now, little children, remain in him, that when he appears, we may have boldness, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.'
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 20 2012,05:30) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 20 2012,05:09) you say;when He was raised from the dead Not I , T, the Scriptures.
Jesus was 'begotten' on the day that He was raised from the dead.
That is what scriptures say, not I!Quote tell me who else did God ever called someone “MY SON ” Has God ever called anybody else 'A Son'? Yes, T.
Angels.
Israel.
Adam.
Begotten Sons and Daughters of God… etc.Anyway all I am saying is that the DAY which Scriptures speak about, when Jesus was BEGOTTEN, was the day in which he was raised from the dead. If there is any other scripture which tells us as clearly as that, that Jesus was begotten before His birth.. then please show… I have not seen any!
Quote begotten = bring forth T, let the spirit show you what 'begotten means'.
Shh.. listen……. It means Taken Up. And you could understand 'taken up' in many (different) ways. Of course that is not in the English dictionary, perhaps. (: You can be begotten while alive too, as I am sure that Jesus was definitely!!!
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Quote
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:so could you walk me through those scriptures above one step at the time
thank you 
I don't read much of Paul, so why would I preach Paul? As I have said, if I was to analyze what Paul said in the above passage, I would have to copy it out word for word from the original Greek and that would take a long time.
Jesus' words are what saves you. His words are the bread which came down from above. You have to “eat” his words (digest them slowly)..
2bbQuote I don't read much of Paul, so why would I preach Paul? As I have said, if I was to analyze what Paul said in the above passage, I would have to copy it out word for word from the original Greek and that would take a long time. I believe ,I can not discuss scriptures with half believers ,NO WANDER YOU ARGUE ON YOUR BELIEVE IT IS ONLY PARCIAL ,HALF A BOOK ,YOUR TRUTH IS SO ONLY HALF AND SO IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING ;
Quote Jesus' words are what saves you. His words are the bread which came down from above. You have to “eat” his words (digest them slowly).. Jesus' words are what saves you OR CONDEMN YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT BELIEVED IN THE ONE HE AS SEND .BUT SINS YOUR BELIEVE IS ONLY ONE HALF YOU SHOULD KEEP IT TO YOURSELF OR SHARE IT IN THE WAY THAT YOU BELIEVE IT , BY TELLING PEOPLE THAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN PAUL AND
?? BE TRUTHFULLBUT YOU AND I ARE DONE NO NEED TO INSTUCT ANYONE THAT REFUSES THE SCRIPTURES IN HIS ENTIRETY
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2012,22:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2012,08:56) I'm not now, nor have I ever argued that Thomas was talking to Jesus and God. Why do your posts suggest you are “correcting me” and challenging me about this issue, when I already AGREE WITH YOU about it?
i dont need your guess. i need a written scripture.
Huh?I believe jammin just might be a brick or two short of a full load.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 19 2012,03:51) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) And FINALLY, are you suggesting that YHVH changed His name to “Jesus”? NO!!! Jesus means YAH SAVES.
Hi 2B,There are many things I wish to address concerning your latest posts – such as Jesus being begotten when he was raised from the dead. (1 John 4:9-10 proves that is not the case, but we can talk about that another time.)
Right now, since your time is limited, I'll try to stay on topic and be brief.
You have just stated in the quote box above that YHWH did not change His name to “Jesus”. You also stated:
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 19 2012,04:09) The name to believe in is not YHVH or Jehovah, but Jesus — as the Scriptures say. I agree with both of these statements. Now, let's align those statements with the words of John 1……………
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word………….John is speaking about the Word, right?
2 He was with God in the beginning.
The pronoun “He” refers to the Word, right?
3 Through him all things were made…….
The pronoun “him” refers to the Word, right?
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Still talking about the Word, right?
9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Still talking about the Word, right?
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Still talking about the Word, right?
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
All these pronouns are still talking about the Word, right?
12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
And the pronouns in verse 12 are STILL talking about the Word, right?
So 2B, WHOSE NAME are we to believe in? According to John 1:12, we are to believe in the name of “the Word”, right? And what was it you just said?
The name to believe in is……… Jesus — as the Scriptures say.
2B, the very words you yourself posted testify that the one called “the Word” in John 1 is the very one called “Jesus” elsewhere in scripture.
Kerwin, Gene, and Marty are also invited to discuss my last post – and show me where I've gone wrong.
Hi KERWIN.
I don't know where the thread is — but in one thread, you were speaking about the Holy Spirit being also called the Son (or something to that effect)…..
I was editing a site the other day and just happened to be editing something called the Shepherd. It was (apparently) one of the most important writings in the earliest Church…. and was also considered as canon by many of the earliest Church “fathers”….
Anyway, here is a piece of it, you will notice in it that the Son is called the Holy Spirit,
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“A certain man had a field and many slaves, and he planted a certain part of the field with a vineyard, and selecting a faithful and beloved and much valued slave, he called him to him, and said, 'Take this vineyard which I have planted, and stake it until I come, and do nothing else to the vineyard; and attend to this order of mine, and you shall receive your freedom from me.'
And the master of the slave departed to a foreign country. And when he was gone, the slave took and staked the vineyard; and when he had finished the staking of the vines, he saw that the vineyard was full of weeds.
He then reflected, saying, 'I have kept this order of my master: I will dig up the rest of this vineyard, and it will be more beautiful when dug up; and being free of weeds, it will yield more fruit, not being choked by them.'
He took, therefore, and dug up the vineyard, and rooted out all the weeds that were in it. And that vineyard became very beautiful and fruitful, Having no weeds to choke it.
And after a certain time the master of the slave and of the field returned, and entered into the vineyard. And seeing that the vines were suitably supported on stakes, and the ground, moreover, dug up, and all the weeds rooted out, and the vines fruitful, he was greatly pleased with the work of his slave. And calling his beloved son who was his heir, and his friends who were his councillors, he told them what orders he had given his slave, and what he had found performed. And they rejoiced along with the slave at the testimony which his master bore to him. And he said to them, 'I promised this slave freedom if he obeyed the command which I gave him; and he has kept my command, and done besides a good work to the vineyard, and has pleased me exceedingly. In return, therefore, for the work which he has done, I wish to make him co-heir with my son, because, having good thoughts, he did not neglect them, but carried them out.'
With this resolution of the master his son and friends were well pleased, viz., that the slave should be co-heir with the son.
After a few days the master made a feast, and sent to his slave many dishes from his table. And the slave receiving the dishes that were sent him from his master, took of them what was sufficient for himself, and distributed the rest among his fellow-slaves. And his fellow-slaves rejoiced to receive the dishes, and began to pray for him, that he might find still greater favour with his master for having so treated them.
His master heard all these things that were done, and was again greatly pleased with his conduct. And the master again calling; together his friends and his son, reported to them the slave's proceeding with regard to the dishes which he had sent him. And they were still more satisfied that the slave should become co-heir with his son.”CHAPTER 3.
I said to him, “Sir, I do not see the meaning of these similitudes, nor am I able to comprehend them, unless you explain them to me.”
“I will explain them all to you,” he said, “and whatever I shall mention in the course of our conversations I will show you. [Keep the commandments of the Lord, and you will be approved, and inscribed amongst the number of those who observe His commands.] And if you do any good beyond what is commanded by God, you will gain for yourself more abundant glory, and will be more honoured by God than you would otherwise be.
If, therefore, in keeping the commandments of God, you do, in addition, these services, you will have joy if you observe them according to my command.”
I said to him, “Sir, whatsoever you enjoin upon me I will observe, for I know that you are with me.”
“I will be with you,” he replied, “because you have such a desire for doing good; and I will be with all those,” he added, “who have such a desire.This fasting,” he continued, “is very good, provided the commandments of the Lord be observed. Thus, then, shall you observe the fasting which you intend to keep.
First of all, be on your guard against every evil word, and every evil desire, and purify your heart from all the vanities of this world. If you guard against these things, your fasting will be perfect. And you will do also as follows.
Having fulfilled what is written, in the day on which you fast you will taste nothing but bread and water; and having reckoned up the price of the dishes of that day which you intended to have eaten, you will give it to a widow, or an orphan, or to some person in want, and thus you will exhibit humility of mind, so that he who has received benefit from your humility may fill his own soul, and pray for you to the Lord.
If you observe fasting, as I have commanded you, your sacrifice will be acceptable to God, and this fasting will be written down; and the service thus performed is noble, and sacred, and acceptable to the Lord. These things, therefore, shall you thus observe with your children, and all your house, and in observing them you will be blessed; and as many as hear these words and observe them shall be blessed; and whatsoever they ask of the Lord they shall receive.”CHAPTER 4.
I prayed him much that he would explain to me the similitude of the field, and of the master of the vineyard, and of the slave who staked the vineyard, and of the sakes, and of the weeds that were plucked out of the vineyard, and of the son, and of the friends who were fellow-councillors, for I knew that all these things were a kind of parable.
And he answered me, and said, “You are exceedingly persistent with your questions. You ought not,” he continued, “to ask any questions at all; for if it is needful to explain anything, it will be made known to you.”
I said to him “Sir whatsoever you show me, and do not explain, I shall have seen to no purpose, not understanding its meaning. In like manner, also, if you speak parables to me, and do not unfold them, I shall have heard your words in vain.”
And he answered me again, saying, “Every one who is the servant of God, and has his Lord in his heart, asks of Him understanding, and receives it, and opens up every parable; and the words of the Lord become known to him which are spoken in parables?But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask Him.
But you, having been strengthened by the holy Angel, and having obtained from Him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from Him?”
I said to him, “Sir, having you with me, I am necessitated to ask questions of you, for you show me all things, and converse with me; but if I were to see or hear these things without you, I would then ask the Lord to explain them.”CHAPTER 5.
“I said to you a little ago,” he answered, “that you were cunning and obstinate in asking explanations of the parables; but since you are so persistent, I shall unfold to you the meaning of the similitudes of the field, and of all the others that follow, that you may make them known to every one.
Hear now,” he said, “and understand them.
The field is this world; and the Lord of the field is He who created, and perfected, and strengthened all things; [and the son is the Holy Spirit; ] and the slave is the Son of God; and the vines are this people, whom He Himself planted; and the stakes are the holy angels of the Lord, who ke
ep His people together; and the weeds that were plucked out of the vineyard are the iniquities of God's servants; and the dishes which He sent Him from His able are the commandments which He gave His people through His Son; and the friends and fellow-councillors are the holy angels who were first created; and the Master's absence from home is the time that remains until His appearing.”I said to him, “Sir, all these are great, and marvellous, and glorious things. Could I, therefore,” I continued, “understand them? No, nor could any other man, even if exceedingly wise. Moreover,” I added, “explain to me what I am about to ask you.” “Say what you wish,” he replied.
“Why, sir,” I asked, “is the Son of God in the parable in the form of a slave?”CHAPTER 6.
“Hear,” he answered: “the Son of God is not in the form of a slave, but in great power and might.”
“How so, sir?” I said; “I do not understand.” “Because,” he answered, “God planted the vineyard, that is to say, He created the people, and gave them to His Son; and the Son appointed His angels over them to keep them; and He Himself purged away their sins, having suffered many trials and undergone many labours, for no one is able to dig without labour and toil.
He Himself, then, having purged away the sins of the people, showed them the paths of life by giving them the law which He received from His Father. [You see,” he said, “that He is the Lord of the people, having received all authority from His Father. ] And why the Lord took His Son as councillor, and the glorious angels, regarding the heirship of the slave, listen. The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it.
For this conduct of the flesh pleased Him, because it was not defiled on the earth while having the Holy Spirit.
He took, therefore, as fellow-councillors His Son and the glorious angels, in order that this flesh, which had been subject to the body without a fault, might have some place of tabernacle, and that it might not appear that the reward [of its servitude had been lost], for the flesh that has been found without spot or defilement, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, [will receive a reward].You have now the explanation of this parable also.”
CHAPTER 7.
“I rejoice, sir,” I said, “to hear this explanation.”
“Hear,” again he replied: “Keep this flesh pure and stainless, that the Spirit which inhabits it may bear witness to it, and your flesh may be justified.
See that the thought never arise in your mind that this flesh of yours is corruptible, and you misuse it by any act of defilement.
If you defile your flesh, you will also defile the Holy Spirit; and if you defile your flesh [and spirit], you will not live.”
“And if any one, sir,” I said, “has been hitherto ignorant, before he heard these words, how can such man be saved who has defiled his flesh?”
“Respecting former sins of ignorance,” he said, “God alone is able to heal them, for to Him belongs all power. [But be On your guard now, and the all-powerful and compassionate God will heal former transgressions], if for the time to come you defile not your body nor your spirit; for both are common, and cannot be defiled, the one without the other: keep both therefore pure, and you will live unto God.”—————————-
I didn't understand how the Holy Spirit which is God could also be called the Son and I prayed and asked. I was shown firtly how the Disciples also never understood anything which was not 'simple'!
Then I was given the words 'Spirit gives birth to Spirit' but I still could not understand it.
And so, wondering what you meant… thank you Kerwin.
Forgot the link:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.htmlFrom Wikipedia:
'In parable 5, the author mentions a Son of God, as a virtuous man filled with a Holy “pre-existent spirit” and adopted as the Son.[4] In the 2nd century, adoptionism (the view that Jesus Christ was only a mortal man) was one of two competing doctrines about Jesus' true nature, the other being that he pre-existed as a divine spirit (Logos); Christ's identity with the Logos (Jn 1:1) was affirmed in 325 at the First Council of Nicaea.[5]'
'The Shepherd of Hermas (Greek: Ποιμήν του Ερμά; Hebrew: רועה הרמס; sometimes just called The Shepherd) is a Christian literary work of the 1st or 2nd century, considered a valuable book by many Christians, and considered canonical scripture by some of the early Church fathers such as Irenaeus.[1][2] The Shepherd had great authority in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.[3] It was bound with New Testament[1] in the Codex Sinaiticus, and it was listed between the Acts of the Apostles and the Acts of Paul in the stichometrical list of the Codex Claromontanus.'
If 'The Shepherd' was once considered as Canon, why was it taken out. and does it have anything to do with the two competing views of Christology?
Mike,
Quote 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Still talking about the Word, right?
No, it is not.
John 1:4
King James Version (KJV)4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
The true Light is in the Word, and is not the Word.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 20 2012,09:28) Hi KERWIN. I don't know where the thread is — but in one thread, you were speaking about the Holy Spirit being also called the Son (or something to that effect)…..
I was editing a site the other day and just happened to be editing something called the Shepherd. It was (apparently) one of the most important writings in the earliest Church…. and was also considered as canon by many of the earliest Church “fathers”….
Anyway, here is a piece of it, you will notice in it that the Son is called the Holy Spirit,
——————————
…
—————————-
I didn't understand how the Holy Spirit which is God could also be called the Son and I prayed and asked. I was shown firtly how the Disciples also never understood anything which was not 'simple'!
Then I was given the words 'Spirit gives birth to Spirit' but I still could not understand it.
And so, wondering what you meant… thank you Kerwin.
2beesee,I have browsed the Shepherd and believe the writer talks too much though he seems to have gems buried in his many words.
I call the Spirit the Son because:
1) Paul literally uses that label to refer to it in Galatians 1:16.
2) We are taught only one knows the things of God, 1 Corinthians 2:11, and that one is called the Son in John 1:18.
3) All things were delivered to Jesus, Luke 10:22, and that God reveals all things by the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:10.The Spirit is the Son of God in the same way Wisdom is said to be his Daughter. Scripture uses personification in teaching and once personified both the Spirit and Wisdom can be said to be sired by God because they come from him.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2012,11:13) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2012,22:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2012,08:56) I'm not now, nor have I ever argued that Thomas was talking to Jesus and God. Why do your posts suggest you are “correcting me” and challenging me about this issue, when I already AGREE WITH YOU about it?
i dont need your guess. i need a written scripture.
Huh?I believe jammin just might be a brick or two short of a full load.
you said it's your guess about john 20.28 that says OMGwell i dont need your guess. i need written scripture.
thomas said to christ he is his LORD AND GOD.
that is a word for word in the bible.
not OMGsorry mike but this only proves that you and the rest who believe about OMG in john 20.28 are false teachers.
in fact, you cant show any single version about itHi Kerwin.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 20 2012,17:27) The Spirit is the Son of God in the same way Wisdom is said to be his Daughter. Scripture uses personification in teaching and once personified both the Spirit and Wisdom can be said to be sired by God because they come from him. So that is in a way putting a mans view on something which is not of man (mans words and understanding I guess that you could say).
Something which we cannot quite figure out, but God knows.
Quote I call the Spirit the Son because: 1) Paul literally uses that label to refer to it in Galatians 1:16.
2) We are taught only one knows the things of God, 1 Corinthians 2:11, and that one is called the Son in John 1:18.
3) All things were delivered to Jesus, Luke 10:22, and that God reveals all things by the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:10.Interesting.
Before I looked at the Shepherd yesterday…. approximately a week ago when I was seeking truth, I was shown by God a couple of those verses too.
I mentioned them to Bod in Skeptics place, but didn't quite know what it was meaning by calling the Holy Spirit the Son, I couldn't quite 'put it all together'.I was shown in particular the following two verses and I saw the connection as I am sure that you also see the (easy) connection…
'God has revealed to us through the Spirit — For the Spirit searches everything — even the depths of God. For what person knows a man's thoughts, except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God.'
and….
“No one knows the Son except the Father — and no one knows the Father except the Son — and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
And then, ages before then was the words spoken through an elderly relative which I heard — the eternal Spirit was brought to my attention.
And more. The fruits of the spirit, etc.
Interesting!
Thanks Kerwin.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 20 2012,17:27) I have browsed the Shepherd and believe the writer talks too much though he seems to have gems buried in his many words. He does go on a lot, but the spirit is there. As you say, 'gems buried in his many words'!
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 20 2012,17:27) The Spirit is the Son of God in the same way Wisdom is said to be his Daughter. Scripture uses personification in teaching and once personified both the Spirit and Wisdom can be said to be sired by God because they come from him. Hi Kerwin. So when it says in parts of scripture such as in Paul — that the world was made through 'HIM', then we can understand that to mean 'through the Holy Spirit' of God, but it has been personified to be 'him'. Do I understand that much?
How do you interpret John 1:1-5:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God;
all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.Do you understand the 'Word' to be the 'spoken word of God' of the Holy Spirit, or both?
typo, that was meant to be — 'Do you understand the 'Word' to be the 'spoken word of God' OR the Holy Spirit, or both…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2012,13:47) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 19 2012,03:51) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) And FINALLY, are you suggesting that YHVH changed His name to “Jesus”? NO!!! Jesus means YAH SAVES.
Hi 2B,There are many things I wish to address concerning your latest posts – such as Jesus being begotten when he was raised from the dead. (1 John 4:9-10 proves that is not the case, but we can talk about that another time.)
Right now, since your time is limited, I'll try to stay on topic and be brief.
You have just stated in the quote box above that YHWH did not change His name to “Jesus”. You also stated:
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 19 2012,04:09) The name to believe in is not YHVH or Jehovah, but Jesus — as the Scriptures say. I agree with both of these statements. Now, let's align those statements with the words of John 1……………
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word………….John is speaking about the Word, right?
2 He was with God in the beginning.
The pronoun “He” refers to the Word, right?
3 Through him all things were made…….
The pronoun “him” refers to the Word, right?
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Still talking about the Word, right?
9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Still talking about the Word, right?
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Still talking about the Word, right?
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
All these pronouns are still talking about the Word, right?
12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
And the pronouns in verse 12 are STILL talking about the Word, right?
So 2B, WHOSE NAME are we to believe in? According to John 1:12, we are to believe in the name of “the Word”, right? And what was it you just said?
The name to believe in is……… Jesus — as the Scriptures say.
2B, the very words you yourself posted testify that the one called “the Word” in John 1 is the very one called “Jesus” elsewhere in scripture.
Mike, I am not too sure on this, I will need some time, okay. The answer is there, but I need to meditate on it more first before I speak!
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