In the Beginning

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 24 2013,18:34)

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2013,13:32) Abe, Paul speaks of a soulish body that some translate as a natural body, even then they are speaking in the carnal, worldly sense. Okay gentlemen, 2 Corinthians 5 1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 1.  Will those of us who dwell in heaven have a body?  YES or NO? 2.  Will that body be the same “earthly tent” in which we now live – or a new, eternal “heavenly dwelling”?  WHICH ONE? 3.  Will these heavenly dwellings be made of flesh?  Or will they “not be built by human hands”?  (Compare Paul's idiom, “built by human hands”, with Jesus' teaching that “flesh gives birth to flesh”.  If God grants you light, you will be able to see one more confirmation that bodies in heaven are not flesh, because a flesh body is a body that has been metaphorically “built by human hands”.  And these are NOT the bodies those in heaven have.) Okay, on to this “soulish”, or “soulical” body discussion.  (My word-check program doesn't know either of those words, and is showing a red line under them, thinking I have misspelled something.   ) But anyway, are you guys (Kerwin and Abe) claiming that heavenly beings DON'T have souls?  YES or NO? Are you claiming that a human being's soul is a part of his body?  YES or NO?

Hi Mike,

(1.) Kingdom of the Son? Or Kingdom of God?

(2.)so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. (Rom.12:5)

(3.) Lk.16:19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20″And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the [crumbs] which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22″Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23″In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24″And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25″But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and [that] none may cross over from there to us.' 27″And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house– 28for I have five brothers– in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29″But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30″But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31″But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

(Kingdom of the Son)

(Quote)
But anyway, are you guys (Kerwin and Abe) claiming that heavenly beings DON'T have souls?  YES or NO?

Rev.6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the SOULS of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until [the number of] their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

(Kingdom of the Son)

Peace brother……………….

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,07:54)

Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,07:28) Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,19:19) Ghosts have form  but cannot be touched nor can they touch. Where in scripture did you learn this? Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,19:19) God has no form as he is not created. Where in scripture did you learn this one?  Phil 2 says Jesus was existing in the form of God.  How could that be if God has no form? Also, if God cannot be touched, and ghosts cannot be touched, is God a ghost?  If not, why not? Mike, The apostles who saw Jesus and thought he was a ghost and Jesus' words and actions about touching him.   The witch of Endor also saw a form. The disciple stated Rhoda probably saw Peter's messenger, a type of “ghost” sighting common to this day. Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) The apostles who saw Jesus and thought he was a ghost…….. The Greek word used means “spirit”. Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) The witch of Endor also saw a form. The medium (not “witch”) that Saul consulted in Endor saw a form that she called a “god” – not a “ghost”. Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) The disciple stated Rhoda probably saw Peter's messenger, a type of “ghost” sighting common to this day. This story is unfamiliar to me.  Please list the scripture.

Mike,

“phantasm” and “spirit” are both used in describing the disciples what the disciples feared when they saw Jesus walking on water.  That would be a ghost or an illusion.

“spirit” was used when Jesus showed himself in the room after he was died and Acts 1 states about that time he gave proof he was alive.

The proofs Jesus gave in the later case was to eat and to have his disciples touch him.

Actually the witch of Endor was a necromancer(ob) that was also a medium(baalah) and a woman(ishshah).  baalah is the feminine form of baal so it seems reasonable medium is a nice way to put it.

Acts 12:15 is where angel is mentioned after Peter miraculously escapes from Jail and avoids his execution.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,13:34)

3.  Will these heavenly dwellings be made of flesh?  Or will they “not be built by human hands”?  (Compare Paul's idiom, “built by human hands”, with Jesus' teaching that “flesh gives birth to flesh”.  If God grants you light, you will be able to see one more confirmation that bodies in heaven are not flesh, because a flesh body is a body that has been metaphorically “built by human hands”.  And these are NOT the bodies those in heaven have.)

Mike………So flesh give berth to Flesh according to you, but was Adam's fleshy from flesh or from God? While it is true flesh does give berth to flesh, because of DNA being PASSED on form Adam and Eve to all mankind. But it was God who gave berth to it in the first place.

Can Flesh live forever? , yes it can , as God said it can, when he said “LEST HE PUT FORTH HIS HAND AND AND EAT OF THE TREE OF LIFE, AND “NEVER DIE”. Is there a resection of Flesh and Bone people ? Yes there is and according to God this resection of these Flesh bodies people was the “WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL”> Spoken of in Ezekiel , So it looks like according to you there will be no Israelite's in you rendition of a heavenly spirited bodied existence.

There is no scripture that say we are going to be alive as some Spirit bodied person in heaven i know of, That is only you rendition of what is said.

We are now clothed with a Body and when we die and this body corrupts in the Grave a Resurrection of a new Physical and spiritual activated Body by God the Father as he Didi ADAM, will cloth us again, And it will exist for ever Just as Adams could have, had he not sinned, because without a Body a spirit is considered as naked. “IT goes about in ARID Places seeking REST”, It (Spirit) needs a Body to rest “IN”>

Your metaphysical reasoning has messed up you thinking on this Mike, IMO.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 25 2013,08:40)

Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,23:42) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2013,08:53) Kerwin the breath of live comes through the action of breathing through our nostrils , the spirit does not come from physical action ,while the spirit can create physical actions ,through the will of that spirit , so the soul his that spirit and the spirit is their to become us as we are and as we make us ,by our desires , ambitions,egos,kindness ,gentleness ,righteousness, ect T, God breath his breath, which is called the breath of life, into Adam's nostrils.  The breath comes from God.  God's breath is not like ours as he is the creator of air and the ability to breath it. Kerwin God breathed THE BREATH OF LIVE INTO ADAM NOSTRILS IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD STARTED ADAM LIFE WITH HIS FIRST BREATH , SORRY FOR YOU ,THIS IS A SIMPLE ACTION THAT IS REPEATED FOR EVERY NEW BORN THAT COMES INTO THIS WORLD , THEY ALL TAKEN THEIR FIRST BREATH INTO THE WORLD LIFE THROUGH THEIR NOSTRILS

T,

Was John the Baptist alive when he jumped in his Mother's womb?

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

1.  Will those of us who dwell in heaven have a body?  YES or NO?

Yes.

Quote

2.  Will that body be the same “earthly tent” in which we now live – or a new, eternal “heavenly dwelling”?  WHICH ONE?

The tent that is of this earth, which is in bondage to coruption.

The tent that is of heaven does not belong to the earth and so is not in bondage to creation.

Of the two the resurected and/or changed body is The heavenly tent.

Quote

3.  Will these heavenly dwellings be made of flesh?

Yes, just as Jesus' body rose as a different flesh than it was planted.

Quote

Or will they “not be built by human hands”?  (Compare Paul's idiom, “built by human hands”, with Jesus' teaching that “flesh gives birth to flesh”.

Your flesh will not be born of your mother again it will be born of the Spirit.

Quote

Okay, on to this “soulish”, or “soulical” body discussion.  (My word-check program doesn't know either of those words, and is showing a red line under them, thinking I have misspelled something.   )

soulish is in the Merriam Webster paid for dictionary.  I already cited it once when they chose to give a free sample. It is still availiable as of this writing.

soulical is used by many but I found no free dictionary that defined it.

Feel free to add them to your dictionary after verifying their spelling.

Quote

But anyway, are you guys (Kerwin and Abe) claiming that heavenly beings DON'T have souls?  YES or NO?

Human beings are a soul and a body and so yes humans, whether in heaven or on earth have a soul.  Those in Sheol are but shades of themselves and have no body.
'
A soulish body of flesh is a flesh body that is “relating to, involving, or suggesting the soul”.

A Spiritual body of flesh is a flesh body that is “of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit”.

The two fleshes are not the same but each is a gift from God; one a gift from his wrath and the other a gift from his joy.

Note: soulish and Spiritual.  soulish is obtained by activating your free trial or doing a search for dictionary and soulish.  The later is temporary.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,23:20)

Quote (terraricca @ May 25 2013,08:40) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,23:42) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2013,08:53) Kerwin the breath of live comes through the action of breathing through our nostrils , the spirit does not come from physical action ,while the spirit can create physical actions ,through the will of that spirit , so the soul his that spirit and the spirit is their to become us as we are and as we make us ,by our desires , ambitions,egos,kindness ,gentleness ,righteousness, ect T, God breath his breath, which is called the breath of life, into Adam's nostrils.  The breath comes from God.  God's breath is not like ours as he is the creator of air and the ability to breath it. Kerwin God breathed THE BREATH OF LIVE INTO ADAM NOSTRILS IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD STARTED ADAM LIFE WITH HIS FIRST BREATH , SORRY FOR YOU ,THIS IS A SIMPLE ACTION THAT IS REPEATED FOR EVERY NEW BORN THAT COMES INTO THIS WORLD , THEY ALL TAKEN THEIR FIRST BREATH INTO THE WORLD LIFE THROUGH THEIR NOSTRILS T, Was John the Baptist alive when he jumped in his Mother's womb?

Kerwin

answer me this ;DID JOHN THE BAPTIST BREATHING THROUGH HIS NOSTRILS INSIDE THE WOMB OF HIS MOTHER

REMEMBER BABIES ALWAYS CAN MOVE IN THE WOMB AFTER SIX MONTH OF GESTATION,

IN THE CASE OF “JBT” IT WAS AT A PARTICULAR TIME THEN AND THERE

[terraricca]

ABE

Jn 18:37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king.In fact, for this reason I was born , and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

the dead of Christ was one phase or part of God's plan ,

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 26 2013,01:37)

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,23:20) Quote (terraricca @ May 25 2013,08:40) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,23:42) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2013,08:53) Kerwin the breath of live comes through the action of breathing through our nostrils , the spirit does not come from physical action ,while the spirit can create physical actions ,through the will of that spirit , so the soul his that spirit and the spirit is their to become us as we are and as we make us ,by our desires , ambitions,egos,kindness ,gentleness ,righteousness, ect T, God breath his breath, which is called the breath of life, into Adam's nostrils.  The breath comes from God.  God's breath is not like ours as he is the creator of air and the ability to breath it. Kerwin God breathed THE BREATH OF LIVE INTO ADAM NOSTRILS IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD STARTED ADAM LIFE WITH HIS FIRST BREATH , SORRY FOR YOU ,THIS IS A SIMPLE ACTION THAT IS REPEATED FOR EVERY NEW BORN THAT COMES INTO THIS WORLD , THEY ALL TAKEN THEIR FIRST BREATH INTO THE WORLD LIFE THROUGH THEIR NOSTRILS T, Was John the Baptist alive when he jumped in his Mother's womb? Kerwin answer me this ;DID JOHN THE BAPTIST BREATHING THROUGH HIS NOSTRILS INSIDE THE WOMB OF HIS MOTHER REMEMBER BABIES ALWAYS CAN MOVE IN THE WOMB AFTER SIX MONTH OF GESTATION, IN THE CASE OF “JBT” IT WAS AT A PARTICULAR TIME THEN AND THERE

T,

They are sometimes felt to move earlier. A breath is not taken by the child until after the child is born. Biologically a child is alive as soon as they are conceived.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,07:49)

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2013,23:58) Mike, This is what I understand.   1 When humanity began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 God’s human sons saw that noGod’s human daughters were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.   3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain in humanity forever, for they are flesh; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when God’s human sons went to noGod’s human daughters and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, males of renown. 5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of humanity had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the humanity was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made humanity on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the humanity I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” God’s parentage has precedence over humanity and noGod is a word I invented to speak of those, even atheist and agnostics, whose God is not Jehovah. So you had to INVENT your own word to make the claim that Seth's offspring mated with Cain's offspring? Why were their offspring “the heroes of old, men of renown”?  What was different about them than anyone else? Were these “hybrids” of Cain's and Seth's line mightier somehow than the uninterrupted line of Seth?  If so, why?

Mike,

The Nephilim were on the earth before the time that the human sons of God intermarried with the human daughters of those that did not call on the name of the Lord. They were also there at that same time. The Naphilim were the males of old, heroes of renown.

I do not know why they were men of renown.

I do not know the causes of the Nephilim before or after the Great Flood.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,08:01)

Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:35) Mike, Quote Where in scripture did you learn this one?  Phil 2 says Jesus was existing in the form of God.  How could that be if God has no form? Also, if God cannot be touched, and ghosts cannot be touched, is God a ghost?  If not, why not? Outward forms are a thing of creation.  God created matter/energy or anything that serves the same purpose.  There was no space or time before God set off the big bang.  Outward forms require space to exist. Kerwin, You know nothing about the state of things before God started creating.  You know nothing about space, time, or anything else that is above your “pay grade”.  So please don't embarrass yourself by implying you do. You say outward forms are a thing of creation, yet Paul speaks in Phil 2 about the form of God. You can't possibly KNOW that forms are EXCLUSIVELY a thing of creation, and so once again you embarrass yourself by making such a statement. I will take Paul's inspired words over yours every day of the week.

Mike,

Quote

You know nothing about the state of things before God started creating.  You know nothing about space, time, or anything else that is above your “pay grade”.  So please don't embarrass yourself by implying you do.

I know God tells me he created all things and therefore nothing he created existed before. I know that before the beginning there was no heaven and no earth because they were not created until the beginning. I also no there was no light because God created light before the end of the first night and day.  I know God divided the day from the night  and so the first Night and Day of time was.

I know light is a form of energy and energy when  bound becomes matter.  I know some of the Big Bang theory and how it seems to fit into creation.  I know that space has at least three dimensions and time 1.

I have no evidence that God rules time and time does not rule him beyond who he is.

Quote

You say outward forms are a thing of creation, yet Paul speaks in Phil 2 about the form of God. You can't possibly KNOW that forms are EXCLUSIVELY a thing of creation, and so once again you embarrass yourself by making such a statement.

Paul knows what he speaks of but you do not.  You should know God has no outward form since God existed before all things were created.  A time in which there was no light, much less the material that a body is made of.  There was no heavenly body as there was no heaven.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,05:09)

Quote (terraricca @ May 26 2013,01:37) Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,23:20) Quote (terraricca @ May 25 2013,08:40) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,23:42) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2013,08:53) Kerwin the breath of live comes through the action of breathing through our nostrils , the spirit does not come from physical action ,while the spirit can create physical actions ,through the will of that spirit , so the soul his that spirit and the spirit is their to become us as we are and as we make us ,by our desires , ambitions,egos,kindness ,gentleness ,righteousness, ect T, God breath his breath, which is called the breath of life, into Adam's nostrils.  The breath comes from God.  God's breath is not like ours as he is the creator of air and the ability to breath it. Kerwin God breathed THE BREATH OF LIVE INTO ADAM NOSTRILS IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD STARTED ADAM LIFE WITH HIS FIRST BREATH , SORRY FOR YOU ,THIS IS A SIMPLE ACTION THAT IS REPEATED FOR EVERY NEW BORN THAT COMES INTO THIS WORLD , THEY ALL TAKEN THEIR FIRST BREATH INTO THE WORLD LIFE THROUGH THEIR NOSTRILS T, Was John the Baptist alive when he jumped in his Mother's womb? Kerwin answer me this ;DID JOHN THE BAPTIST BREATHING THROUGH HIS NOSTRILS INSIDE THE WOMB OF HIS MOTHER REMEMBER BABIES ALWAYS CAN MOVE IN THE WOMB AFTER SIX MONTH OF GESTATION, IN THE CASE OF “JBT” IT WAS AT A PARTICULAR TIME THEN AND THERE T, They are sometimes felt to move earlier. A breath is not taken by the child until after the child is born. Biologically a child is alive as soon as they are conceived.

kerwin

Quote

Biologically a child is alive as soon as they are conceived.

so a sperm and the egg his dead

what his a child or when can we call it a child ,???

conception is wen sperm and egg comes one ;? this is not a child

but the beginning of what would become a child ,now wen a child is complete in form then it could be called a child not before,IMO

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,05:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,07:54) Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,07:28) Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,19:19) Ghosts have form  but cannot be touched nor can they touch. Where in scripture did you learn this? Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,19:19) God has no form as he is not created. Where in scripture did you learn this one?  Phil 2 says Jesus was existing in the form of God.  How could that be if God has no form? Also, if God cannot be touched, and ghosts cannot be touched, is God a ghost?  If not, why not? Mike, The apostles who saw Jesus and thought he was a ghost and Jesus' words and actions about touching him.   The witch of Endor also saw a form. The disciple stated Rhoda probably saw Peter's messenger, a type of “ghost” sighting common to this day. Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) The apostles who saw Jesus and thought he was a ghost…….. The Greek word used means “spirit”. Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) The witch of Endor also saw a form. The medium (not “witch”) that Saul consulted in Endor saw a form that she called a “god” – not a “ghost”. Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,00:14) The disciple stated Rhoda probably saw Peter's messenger, a type of “ghost” sighting common to this day. This story is unfamiliar to me.  Please list the scripture. Mike, “phantasm” and “spirit” are both used in describing the disciples what the disciples feared when they saw Jesus walking on water.  That would be a ghost or an illusion. “spirit” was used when Jesus showed himself in the room after he was died and Acts 1 states about that time he gave proof he was alive. The proofs Jesus gave in the later case was to eat and to have his disciples touch him. Actually the witch of Endor was a necromancer(ob) that was also a medium(baalah) and a woman(ishshah).  baalah is the feminine form of baal so it seems reasonable medium is a nice way to put it. Acts 12:15 is where angel is mentioned after Peter miraculously escapes from Jail and avoids his execution.

Kerwin,

None of these things are proving the existence of what you call “ghosts”.

Please tell me what a ghost is, in your opinion.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 25 2013,09:16)

We are now clothed with a Body and when we die and this body corrupts in the Grave a Resurrection of a new Physical and spiritual activated Body by God the Father as he Didi ADAM, will cloth us again,

So then we WON'T be raised in the body in which we died, right? It seems we agree on one more thing, Gene.

Now, read the 2 Cor passage I quoted before. When we die, our EARTHLY TENTS are no more. We will be NAKED. But Paul says God won't LEAVE us naked. Instead, He will give us a body (heavenly tent) that is NOT made from human hands.

What does Paul mean by “made from human hands”, Gene? Are our current flesh bodies LITERALLY made from human hands. No. But Paul is speaking metaphorically, and teaching that since flesh gives birth to flesh, METAPHORICALLY our flesh bodies ARE “made by human hands”.

Yet these resurrection bodies will NOT be “made by human hands”.

May God grant you the ability to see.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,13:25)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 3.  Will these heavenly dwellings be made of flesh? Yes, just as Jesus' body rose as a different flesh than it was planted.

Read my previous post to Gene, Kerwin.  Paul said that our flesh bodies (earthly tents) ARE “made by human hands”, but that our heavenly bodies (heavenly dwellings) will NOT be “made by human hands”.

Get it?  FLESH bodies are “made by human hands”.  Our heavenly dwellings will be something other than this.

Also, you didn't answer my question:

Do angels of God have souls?  YES or NO?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 26 2013,18:50)

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,05:09) Quote (terraricca @ May 26 2013,01:37) Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,23:20) Quote (terraricca @ May 25 2013,08:40) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,23:42) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2013,08:53) Kerwin the breath of live comes through the action of breathing through our nostrils , the spirit does not come from physical action ,while the spirit can create physical actions ,through the will of that spirit , so the soul his that spirit and the spirit is their to become us as we are and as we make us ,by our desires , ambitions,egos,kindness ,gentleness ,righteousness, ect T, God breath his breath, which is called the breath of life, into Adam's nostrils.  The breath comes from God.  God's breath is not like ours as he is the creator of air and the ability to breath it. Kerwin God breathed THE BREATH OF LIVE INTO ADAM NOSTRILS IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD STARTED ADAM LIFE WITH HIS FIRST BREATH , SORRY FOR YOU ,THIS IS A SIMPLE ACTION THAT IS REPEATED FOR EVERY NEW BORN THAT COMES INTO THIS WORLD , THEY ALL TAKEN THEIR FIRST BREATH INTO THE WORLD LIFE THROUGH THEIR NOSTRILS T, Was John the Baptist alive when he jumped in his Mother's womb? Kerwin answer me this ;DID JOHN THE BAPTIST BREATHING THROUGH HIS NOSTRILS INSIDE THE WOMB OF HIS MOTHER REMEMBER BABIES ALWAYS CAN MOVE IN THE WOMB AFTER SIX MONTH OF GESTATION, IN THE CASE OF “JBT” IT WAS AT A PARTICULAR TIME THEN AND THERE T, They are sometimes felt to move earlier. A breath is not taken by the child until after the child is born. Biologically a child is alive as soon as they are conceived. kerwin Quote Biologically a child is alive as soon as they are conceived. so a sperm and the egg his dead what his a child or when can we call it  a child ,??? conception is wen sperm and egg comes one ;? this is not a child but the beginning of what would become a child ,now wen a child is complete in form then it could be called a child not before,IMO

T,

It is true that a human being is shaped in his mothers inner parts from the time he is conceived as a living human. It is also true that the sperm and ova are living human cells which are shed by their parent organisms in the hopes of continue the circuit of life instead of perishing.

According to God, even the eggs of an Ostrich are her young. Since God said that about a non-sentient beast then it is just as true for a human.

According to medical science a children outside his mother's womb is not a fully formed adult.

My point of all this is that human life exists without breathing air through the nostrils. A child in his mother's womb get what he needs through his umbilical cord and his mother does his breathing for him.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,18:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,07:49) So you had to INVENT your own word to make the claim that Seth's offspring mated with Cain's offspring? Why were their offspring “the heroes of old, men of renown”?  What was different about them than anyone else? Were these “hybrids” of Cain's and Seth's line mightier somehow than the uninterrupted line of Seth?  If so, why? Mike, The Nephilim were on the earth before the time that the human sons of God intermarried with the human daughters of those that did not call on the name of the Lord.  They were also there at that same time.  The Naphilim were the males of old, heroes of renown. I do not know why they were men of renown.   I do not know the causes of the Nephilim before or after the Great Flood.

Where does the scripture say the Nephilim were in the world BEFORE the sons of God mated with the daughters of humans?

As for your claim that you don't know why the merger of Seth's line and Cain's line produced “men of renown”, I suggest that you give this line of reasoning up.

I suggest you read my last post to you in the other thread, where I posted some of the Book of Enoch.  The fact that Enoch was an important part of Jewish culture, and was even quoted once or twice in the scriptures, shows us that the Jews understood the “sons of God” in Gen 6:4 to be referring to the SPIRIT sons of God, ie: angels.

You can continue to believe that the line of Seth was called “the sons of God” (as if they were NOT sons of Adam), and that the merger of these two family lines of human beings was somehow notable in scripture, and that this merger somehow produced another line of being known as the Nephilim, who were “heroes” and “men of renown”.

To me, this whole reasoning is asinine, and I won't be a part of it.

I will continue to understand that the sons of God in Gen 6:4 were angels who mated with the sons of Adam (human beings).

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,01:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,08:01) You say outward forms are a thing of creation, yet Paul speaks in Phil 2 about the form of God. Paul knows what he speaks of but you do not.

Wise words, Kerwin.

And since Paul DOES know what he's talking about, and we do not, we are better off to just believe Paul, right?

And Paul says God DOES have a form, right?

End of story.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2013,23:51)

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,13:25) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 3.  Will these heavenly dwellings be made of flesh? Yes, just as Jesus' body rose as a different flesh than it was planted. Read my previous post to Gene, Kerwin.  Paul said that our flesh bodies (earthly tents) ARE “made by human hands”, but that our heavenly bodies (heavenly dwellings) will NOT be “made by human hands”. Get it?  FLESH bodies are “made by human hands”.  Our heavenly dwellings will be something other than this. Also, you didn't answer my question: Do angels of God have souls?  YES or NO?

Mike,

I already pointed out that the soulish flesh in made of woman and the Spiritual flesh is made by the power of the Spirit.  This is also said of Jesus who was made of a woman and made again by the power of the Spirit.  Despite what you seem to think, not all flesh is the same.

Yes, Just like humans, angels have a body and though the body of an angel is not the same as the body of a human despite certain angel looks.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,00:09)

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,01:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,08:01) You say outward forms are a thing of creation, yet Paul speaks in Phil 2 about the form of God. Paul knows what he speaks of but you do not.   Wise words, Kerwin. And since Paul DOES know what he's talking about, and we do not, we are better off to just believe Paul, right? And Paul says God DOES have a form, right? End of story.

Mike,

That is what causes a person to stumble. We are all instructed to seek understanding. If we do as you say we are not seeking to understand.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,12:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,00:09) Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,01:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2013,08:01) You say outward forms are a thing of creation, yet Paul speaks in Phil 2 about the form of God. Paul knows what he speaks of but you do not.   Wise words, Kerwin. And since Paul DOES know what he's talking about, and we do not, we are better off to just believe Paul, right? And Paul says God DOES have a form, right? End of story. Mike, That is what causes a person to stumble.  We are all instructed to seek understanding.  If we do as you say we are not seeking to understand.

So you will seek understanding that allows you to DISALLOW for Paul's words?

Better to just believe Paul, Kerwin.

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