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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 02 2013,08:17) is there any end to your BS, and what i said, is we wrestle against evil spirits “working” (IN) flesh and blood human beings who are in High Places of Authority on this earth
Actually Gene, that is NOT what you originally posted. But instead of going on and on about this, why not just clear it up right now? Do you believe:1. Our struggle is against evil spirits who are working IN flesh and blood human beings? (This answer means our struggle is against the SPIRITS themselves, and NOT against the human beings they are working in. This is what it seems like you're saying now.)
2. Our struggle is against flesh and blood human beings who are INFLUENCED BY evil spirits? (This is what you originally said, and this answer means our struggle is against HUMAN BEINGS themselves, NOT against the evil spirits who influence them.)
#2 is what you originally posted, Gene. But which one of these two did you actually MEAN?
Also, are the “rulers” Paul mentioned “MEN” (like you originally said)? Or are they spirit beings? Which one?
Quote (kerwin @ May 02 2013,13:49) Gene, Mike, Abe, and others, I believe Satan is the chief of the angels that walk according to the satan spirit. We are instructed to resist him. We also fight the satan spirit that is within us. In addition we fight the satan spirit that is in others.
Can you show me a scripture that speaks of the “satan spirit” – so I can read up on it?As I understand it, Satan is the chief of the spirit sons of God who rebel against their Father and Creator. He was a beautiful angel, like the other spirit sons of God, and a source of joy for his God until the day wickedness was found in him.
I don't know anything about any “satan spirit” within any of us. Nor would I know how to fight against a “satan spirit” that was within someone else.
Enlighten me.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2013,05:56) Quote (kerwin @ May 02 2013,13:49) Gene, Mike, Abe, and others, I believe Satan is the chief of the angels that walk according to the satan spirit. We are instructed to resist him. We also fight the satan spirit that is within us. In addition we fight the satan spirit that is in others.
Can you show me a scripture that speaks of the “satan spirit” – so I can read up on it?As I understand it, Satan is the chief of the spirit sons of God who rebel against their Father and Creator. He was a beautiful angel, like the other spirit sons of God, and a source of joy for his God until the day wickedness was found in him.
I don't know anything about any “satan spirit” within any of us. Nor would I know how to fight against a “satan spirit” that was within someone else.
Enlighten me.
Mike,What you ask for is already in my writing if you read between the lines. It is the flesh nature I call the satan spirit as those that bear its fruit are the children of Satan. The flesh nature is in conflict with the spirit of God just as Satan opposes the Messenger.
Quote (kerwin @ May 02 2013,18:57) It is the flesh nature I call the satan spirit…………
So then this is just something YOU call “sinful flesh nature”?Okay. I thought there was maybe something in scripture about a “satan spirit”, to which you were alluding.
Mike………..Both 1 and 2 are both “”right, these Evil Spirits are “WORKING” in flesh and blood humans, and therefore they are “INFLUENCING” them to do evil. When a mugger try to steal from you and you fight against him are you fighting against a flesh and blood human being who has a evil spirit working “IN” him. They go hand and hand, but it is not the Flesh and blood that is “CAUSING” that to take place , now that was Paul's Point, any way you want to hack it Mike. IMO
Now as far as ha-satan being spirit, that is true the Spirit (intellect) of an “Adversary” is the spirit of ha-Satan, All Spirit are a creation of God both good and evil spirits, he is the “FATHER” so to speak of all Spirits, Life consists of Good and Evil spirits working “IN” people both good spirits and evil spirits, clean or unclean spirits. It would be better if we could come to see what a Spirit really is. Spirit comes in type and Kinds of ( COGNATE INTELLECTS) that resides “IN” people and all Life forms ,they give there individual distinct “cognate intellects” to the life forms they are “IN” , both in the physical realm and in the heavenly realm. All life is about Spirits and without spirits there in no life at all, rather a one celled life form or a giant wheal, higher or lower forms of Life, makes no difference the spirits in them is what life in them “IS”> IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2013,08:22) Quote (kerwin @ May 02 2013,18:57) It is the flesh nature I call the satan spirit…………
So then this is just something YOU call “sinful flesh nature”?Okay. I thought there was maybe something in scripture about a “satan spirit”, to which you were alluding.
Mike,It is just a label on an idea of Scripture that I used to make a point.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 03 2013,21:08) Mike………..Both 1 and 2 are both “”right, these Evil Spirits are “WORKING” in flesh and blood humans, and therefore they are “INFLUENCING” them to do evil. When a mugger try to steal from you and you fight against him are you fighting against a flesh and blood human being who has a evil spirit working “IN” him. They go hand and hand, but it is not the Flesh and blood that is “CAUSING” that to take place , now that was Paul Point any way you want to hack it Mike. IMO Now as far as ha-satan being spirit, that is true the Spirit (intellect) of an “Adversary” is the spirit of ha-Satan, All Spirit are a creation of God both good and evil spirits, he is the “FATHER” so to speak of all Spirits, Life consists of Good and Evil spirits working “IN” people both good spirits and evil spirits, clean or unclean spirits. It would be better if we could come to see what a Spirit really is. Spirit comes in type and Kinds of ( COGNATE INTELLECTS) that resides “IN” people and all Life forms ,they give there individual distinct “cognate intellects” to the life forms they are “IN” , both in the physical realm and in the heavenly realm. All life is about Spirits and without spirits there in no life at all, rather a one celled life form or a giant wheal, higher or lower forms of Life, makes no difference the spirits in them is what life in them “IS”> IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………gene
Gene,I see where we are taught that Yawheh is the father of spirits but the “all” is not there. What we know is God cannot be tempted by evil and so he cannot do evil. Since this knowledge is true He is not the source of evil spirits. He does have authority over them.
Kerwin…….If God created everything in existence , then that has to include all spirits too. Even the spirit ,ha-satan, is call his creation in genesis. “The old serpent” is his creation. As I have explained before it takes both good and evil to “understand” about how to live life properly as a well adjusted human being, this knowledge of good and evil, gives us the wisdom and makes us more like God himself, I did not say it makes us a God , but more like him, remember, ” look the man has become as we are to “know” good “and ” evil.
We are also told in Isaiah, that God created both good and he also creates evil, as testified in many scriptures which shows God bring Evil on people , remember the evil spirit he sent to king Saul to trouble him. Because it says God “himself”, is not “tempted” by evil, does not mean he did not create and uses it. IMO
Brother, God created all things both the good and the evil and is “SOVEREIGN ” , IMO , remember I never said GOD himself is evil, nor himself does evil, but he sure does use it and brings it on people, i.e. Job. This is just my opinion brother.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2013,15:56) Quote (kerwin @ May 02 2013,13:49) Gene, Mike, Abe, and others, I believe Satan is the chief of the angels that walk according to the satan spirit. We are instructed to resist him. We also fight the satan spirit that is within us. In addition we fight the satan spirit that is in others.
Can you show me a scripture that speaks of the “satan spirit” – so I can read up on it?As I understand it, Satan is the chief of the spirit sons of God who rebel against their Father and Creator. He was a beautiful angel, like the other spirit sons of God, and a source of joy for his God until the day wickedness was found in him.
I don't know anything about any “satan spirit” within any of us. Nor would I know how to fight against a “satan spirit” that was within someone else.
Enlighten me.
Hi Mike,Eph.2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Peace brother.
Gene,
Quote If God created everything in existence , then that has to include all spirits too. God created all things that are created. Love is not created as God is its source and God existed before anything was created. Sin is a response to love and not a creation.
You confuse evil events with the parent of evil desires. God authors both good and evil events for his just and merciful reasons. Events are brought to be in a likeness of creation.
Quote (abe @ May 04 2013,07:03) Enlighten me.
Hi Mike,Eph.2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Peace brother.[/quote]
Abe……….Thanks, maybe that will “enlighten” brother Mike. It is indeed that Evil “SPIRIT” at work “IN” children of disobedience that is causing all the Evil that is in this world and it is “working” in flesh and blood human being . And that was exactly Paul's point.
So when we resist that evil spirit, we are also resiting that flesh and blood person that spirit is working in , even though it is not the flesh and blood part “ItSELF” (CAUSING) the problem , but evil Spirits working “IN” that flesh and blood body, You have it right Abe. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
To all,
If we share the message of how to overcome sins then we are battling the powers and authorities of this dark world. We do not battle with the weapons of this world.
Quote (kerwin @ May 04 2013,12:34) To all, If we share the message of how to overcome sins then we are battling the powers and authorities of this dark world. We do not battle with the weapons of this world.
Hi Kerwin,Eph.2:3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
and seated us with Him? ?
Peace brother…
Quote (abe @ May 05 2013,02:48) Quote (kerwin @ May 04 2013,12:34) To all, If we share the message of how to overcome sins then we are battling the powers and authorities of this dark world. We do not battle with the weapons of this world.
Hi Kerwin,Eph.2:3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
and seated us with Him? ?
Peace brother…
Abe,It is true that those that believe are in Jesus Anointed. So thank you for the support.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 04 2013,08:18) Abe……….Thanks, maybe that will “enlighten” brother Mike.
Ephesians 2:2 NET
in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit 8 that is now energizing 9 the sons of disobedience,Footnote #8 says:
The ruler of the kingdom of the air is also the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience.Although several translations regard the ruler to be the same as the spirit, this is unlikely since the cases in Greek are different (ruler is accusative and spirit is genitive).
To get around this, some have suggested that the genitive for spirit is a genitive of apposition. However, the semantics of the genitive of apposition are against such an interpretation.
Mike,
Just a word..
Studying the Greek can help us if there seems to be a contradiction of some type. However, when it comes to our own study of scriptures, we have no need for anyone to teach us, because the Spirit teaches us if we rely on God only.
It appears to me that for almost everything that you are reading, you are doing it via the Internet site which you quote in nearly every post, and you are instead relying on mens interpretation.
“NET” is the teaching of men added onto scripture.
Is it really helping you?
Before we continue trying to decipher Paul's sometimes poetic wording, let's get to the bottom of this:
Do we all agree that “Satan” is a real, live, spirit BEING – an angel of Jehovah who rebelled against his God and Creator?
According to the clear testimony of scripture, Satan and his demons are actual BEINGS. They have minds and wills of their own. They have names. They are PERSONS. They were created as spirit sons of God. They are angels who turned against their God. And they sometimes mess with human beings USING spiritual forces.
And when Paul says our struggle is against the spiritual RULERS of the dark world, he is talking about actual spirit BEINGS.
As long as I've known Gene, he has insisted that these demonic BEINGS don't exist. He doesn't believe an actual BEING named Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness. He doesn't think it was a BEING who offered Jesus the kingdoms of the earth in exchange for an act of worship.
And instead of you guys correcting Gene about his misunderstanding, you seem to be going out of your way to find poetic wordings in scripture to SUPPORT him in that misunderstanding.
Abe and Kerwin, lay it on the line and say it clear. Answer the bolded part of my post with a clear and direct answer.
Quote (2besee @ May 04 2013,21:30) “NET” is the teaching of men added onto scripture. Is it really helping you?
Absolutely and positively, 2B.Did YOU know the things I just posted from NETNotes? Do you even care about those things? Or are you happy just accepting the Trinitarian-translated English version of the scriptures?
Perhaps instead of suggesting that people like Kerwin and I STOP delving deeper into what was actually written in Hebrew and Greek languages, you should START delving deeper into these things.
BTW, NET is not “in addition to” the scriptures. Instead, these scholars explain WHY certain things are translated certain ways.
Since you again joined into this discussion, perhaps you will answer the bolded part of my last post.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2013,17:12)
BTW, NET is not “in addition to” the scriptures. Instead, these scholars explain WHY certain things are translated certain ways.So you need a scholar to teach you?
Quote Perhaps instead of suggesting that people like Kerwin and I STOP delving deeper into what was actually written in Hebrew and Greek languages, you should START delving deeper into these things. I often study the Greek and Hebrew. I do not read commentaries, whereas it seems that you are relying on them for everything. That is what I was meaning. IS it helping you?
Quote Since you again joined into this discussion, perhaps you will answer the bolded part of my last post. I believe that Satan is a being.
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