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Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,13:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,15:07) Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01)
The Word of God= Son of God
Agreed. Jesus, the Son of God, is the Word of God – as attested by the scriptures. He was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being – also attested by scripture. He was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son – also attested. All things in heaven and earth were created through this only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ – also attested.Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01) The Glory of God= Son of God
I have never heard such a claim, and probably for good reason. God gives His glory to no one (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11) – yet He gave His Son to us all (John 3:16, Romans 8:32).Abe, according to the statements you just made, I assume that you believe the Word who was with God in the beginning was NOT God Himself, but the Son of God. Is that a correct assumption on my part?
Hi Mike,Yes, the Son of God.
Jn.17:1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he looked upward to heaven and said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you – 2just as you have given him authority over all humanity, so that he may give eternal life to everyone you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life – that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. 4 I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.
Rev.21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its
LAMP is the LAMB.
Rev.22:5 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5And there will no longer be any night; and they will NOT have NEED of the LIGHT of a LAMP nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
NOT have NEED of the LIGHT of a LAMP
Lord God will illumine them; Now God shares his Glory.
Gen.1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
Glory of God= Son of God. (one part)
Peace brother….
Abe……….Notice it say they (the servants) will no longer need the light of a Lamp (the lamb), why because they shall be Lamps themselves as the LORD God glory shines and iluminates them as it does the lamb also. They the severants themselves become Lamps of God also with Jesus the lamb of God.peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene,
Yawheh is their Sun and King Jesus is there moon. The energy of the Sun is one kind and the energy of the God it another. The Sun is the source, the moon reflects it, we receive it. The Sun's energy warms and lights the flesh while God's energy warms and lights the spirit. The Lamb is the means by which we are lighted and reflect light as God is too bright for us to survive direct exposure.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 17 2013,05:32) Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,13:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,15:07) Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01)
The Word of God= Son of God
Agreed. Jesus, the Son of God, is the Word of God – as attested by the scriptures. He was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being – also attested by scripture. He was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son – also attested. All things in heaven and earth were created through this only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ – also attested.Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01) The Glory of God= Son of God
I have never heard such a claim, and probably for good reason. God gives His glory to no one (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11) – yet He gave His Son to us all (John 3:16, Romans 8:32).Abe, according to the statements you just made, I assume that you believe the Word who was with God in the beginning was NOT God Himself, but the Son of God. Is that a correct assumption on my part?
Hi Mike,Yes, the Son of God.
Jn.17:1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he looked upward to heaven and said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you – 2just as you have given him authority over all humanity, so that he may give eternal life to everyone you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life – that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. 4 I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.
Rev.21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its
LAMP is the LAMB.
Rev.22:5 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5And there will no longer be any night; and they will NOT have NEED of the LIGHT of a LAMP nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
NOT have NEED of the LIGHT of a LAMP
Lord God will illumine them; Now God shares his Glory.
Gen.1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
Glory of God= Son of God. (one part)
Peace brother….
Abe……….Notice it say they (the servants) will no longer need the light of a Lamp (the lamb), why because they shall be Lamps themselves as the LORD God glory shines and iluminates them as it does the lamb also. They the severants themselves become Lamps of God also with Jesus the lamb of God.peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Hi Gene,Lord God will illumine them; Now God shares his Glory.
Peace brother.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 18 2013,02:18) 2besee and abe……….You both have put forth the truth and used sound and right scriptures, May God bless you both as you are showing yourselves to be champions of the Faith and may the LORD beless and keep you, and make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you, and lift up his countinence upon you, and give you peace peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
That was very nice, thank you Gene.
Quote (abe @ April 16 2013,20:15) Glory of God= Son of God.
I disagree. God gives His glory to no one – yet He gave His son to us all.All,
I have the feeling that though Jesus was a man (that is what I believe) that He is much more than that now, as Abe says, if I understand what Abe is saying correctly, that is.
Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,23:55) So are you claiming Jesus is not the Word made flesh?
There is no scripture that actually calls Jesus “The Word-Made-Flesh”, but I agree that the Word/Jesus was made flesh for a short time. And during that short 33 year span, he could be called “The Word Made Flesh”.But do YOU agree that John 1:14 speaks about the Word being made flesh, and dwelling among us?
In other words, do you accept the following translation:
The Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us……….
Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2013,00:12) Mike, I have already quoted someone who obviously believes there is no difference. There are others.
Kerwin,Aren't you taking this a bit too far? A person can seriously LOVE money – but you know that doesn't mean his love of money is “God”, right?
Anyway, I was hoping to find out what your cohorts had to say about it.
Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,04:05) Was Jesus a pre-existent god, or a man?
According to Paul — a man.
Yes 2B,And according to Paul, Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE being made into the likeness of a man. (Phil 2:6-8) And he was the firstborn of all creation, for all things in heaven and on earth were created through him. (Col 1:15-16)
And according to Jesus himself, he came down from heaven. (John 6:38) Then, in verse 62, he said that he would ascend to “where he was BEFORE”.
Of course we all know he ascended TO heaven, right? So where does that mean he “was BEFORE”?
2B, why do you guys only believe the “man” part? Why don't you believe the rest?
It is SO clear and SO easy to understand that Jesus was the first thing God ever created – the “first of the works of God”. And then all things in heaven and earth were created through God's “firstborn Son”. And then, he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being. Then he testified that he came down from heaven, and was the only man to have seen God. Then he prayed for his God to glorify him once again with the glory he had alongside his God before the world began. Then he said he would soon ascend to where he was before. Then he is called “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13. And then John (the same one who received the revelation of Jesus being the Word of God) speaks about a “Word” that was with God in the beginning, but then was made flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
Come on guys. This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to scriptures that support my understanding. How stubborn does one have to be to ignore or twist all of these scriptural teachings?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 17 2013,07:18) 2besee and abe……….You both have put forth the truth and used sound and right scriptures………..
I agree Gene. They have indeed produced very fine scriptures that support the fact that JESUS is the “light” spoken of in John 1:4-13.Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2013,22:57) Gene, Yawheh is their Sun and King Jesus is there moon. The energy of the Sun is one kind and the energy of the God it another. The Sun is the source, the moon reflects it, we receive it. The Sun's energy warms and lights the flesh while God's energy warms and lights the spirit. The Lamb is the means by which we are lighted and reflect light as God is too bright for us to survive direct exposure.
Kyes ,but what is it that ,that means
literallyQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2013,13:27) Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,04:05) Was Jesus a pre-existent god, or a man?
According to Paul — a man.
Yes 2B,And according to Paul, Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE being made into the likeness of a man. (Phil 2:6-8) And he was the firstborn of all creation, for all things in heaven and on earth were created through him. (Col 1:15-16)
And according to Jesus himself, he came down from heaven. (John 6:38) Then, in verse 62, he said that he would ascend to “where he was BEFORE”.
Of course we all know he ascended TO heaven, right? So where does that mean he “was BEFORE”?
2B, why do you guys only believe the “man” part? Why don't you believe the rest?
It is SO clear and SO easy to understand that Jesus was the first thing God ever created – the “first of the works of God”. And then all things in heaven and earth were created through God's “firstborn Son”. And then, he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being. Then he testified that he came down from heaven, and was the only man to have seen God. Then he prayed for his God to glorify him once again with the glory he had alongside his God before the world began. Then he said he would soon ascend to where he was before. Then he is called “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13. And then John (the same one who received the revelation of Jesus being the Word of God) speaks about a “Word” that was with God in the beginning, but then was made flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
Come on guys. This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to scriptures that support my understanding. How stubborn does one have to be to ignore or twist all of these scriptural teachings?
It is not hard to understand that the Son is the Holy Spirit and that the Son pre-existed, and that the Son is a part of the One God.
I have to be brief i only have a few minutes.
And how about now, 2B? Are they still TWO DIFFERENT sons of God? Or are they now ONE son of God?
Perhaps you should first master a complete understanding of your doctrine, before trying to teach it to others.
BTW, it is VERY hard to understand that the Holy Spirit of God is the Son of God………… especially when many scriptures PROHIBIT such a thing from being true.
This is just one in a long line of twisted things non-preexisters come up with to keep Jesus from being different than the rest of us humans.
2B,
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus. Question: To which one did God say, “Your are my Son”? Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit?
Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,09:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 17 2013,05:32) Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,13:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,15:07) Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01)
The Word of God= Son of God
Agreed. Jesus, the Son of God, is the Word of God – as attested by the scriptures. He was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being – also attested by scripture. He was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son – also attested. All things in heaven and earth were created through this only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ – also attested.Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01) The Glory of God= Son of God
I have never heard such a claim, and probably for good reason. God gives His glory to no one (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11) – yet He gave His Son to us all (John 3:16, Romans 8:32).Abe, according to the statements you just made, I assume that you believe the Word who was with God in the beginning was NOT God Himself, but the Son of God. Is that a correct assumption on my part?
Hi Mike,Yes, the Son of God.
Jn.17:1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he looked upward to heaven and said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you – 2just as you have given him authority over all humanity, so that he may give eternal life to everyone you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life – that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. 4 I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.
Rev.21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its
LAMP is the LAMB.
Rev.22:5 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5And there will no longer be any night; and they will NOT have NEED of the LIGHT of a LAMP nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
NOT have NEED of the LIGHT of a LAMP
Lord God will illumine them; Now God shares his Glory.
Gen.1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
Glory of God= Son of God. (one part)
Peace brother….
Abe……….Notice it say they (the servants) will no longer need the light of a Lamp (the lamb), why because they shall be Lamps themselves as the LORD God glory shines and iluminates them as it does the lamb also. They the severants themselves become Lamps of God also with Jesus the lamb of God.peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Hi Gene,Lord God will illumine them; Now God shares his Glory.
Peace brother.
Hi Mike,Rev.22:5 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it,
1Cor.15:24 then [comes] the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father,
because the Lord God will illumine them;(God will be their light) and they will reign forever and ever.
The Lamb married Holy Jerusalem.
Holy Jerusalem is the CHURCH.Holy Jerusalem is not God.
New Jerusalem was born from the Dead.
17″For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
18″But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem [for] rejoicing And her people [for] gladness.
Peace brother..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2013,15:01) And how about now, 2B? Are they still TWO DIFFERENT sons of God? Or are they now ONE son of God? Rev 19.
11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there was a white horse. Its rider is named Faithful and True. He administers justice and wages war righteously. 12His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many royal crowns. He has a name written on him that nobody knows except himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is called the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, follow him on white horses. 15A sharp sword comes out of his mouth to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod and tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe that covers his thigh he has a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
Quote Perhaps you should first master a complete understanding of your doctrine, before trying to teach it to others. I am not trying to teach it to others I am only giving my understanding from what has been shown to me.
Quote BTW, it is VERY hard to understand that the Holy Spirit of God is the Son of God………… For you maybe. Not for me.
Why is it so hard for you to imagine that the Son preexisted as the Holy Spirit and so easy for you to imagine that the Son preexisted as an Angel or some other created god?
I believe this: “And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent—Jesus the Messiah.”
Father and Son, God and His Spirit – and Jesus the Messiah. Spirit and truth.
Quote This is just one in a long line of twisted things non-preexisters come up with to keep Jesus from being different than the rest of us humans. In the beginning of this thread I was an Arian, though I was shown when I asked months beforehand that Jesus was the Holy Spirit, and so I had a good idea on the “Eternal Spirit” in scripture. I was shown things piece by piece, and so my understanding grew slowly as time went on, and still is. I wanted truth, even if it was not what I expected. Even if it was Trinitarian. I began here in this thread with an open mind – and I trusted God and still do. It is called Spirit Christology, and it goes back to the earliest Church as I have shown you.
Quote Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus. Question: To which one did God say, “Your are my Son”? Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit?
To Jesus.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2013,13:01) And how about now, 2B? Are they still TWO DIFFERENT sons of God? Or are they now ONE son of God? Perhaps you should first master a complete understanding of your doctrine, before trying to teach it to others.
BTW, it is VERY hard to understand that the Holy Spirit of God is the Son of God………… especially when many scriptures PROHIBIT such a thing from being true.
This is just one in a long line of twisted things non-preexisters come up with to keep Jesus from being different than the rest of us humans.
Hi Mike,Do you believe we all preexisted then?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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