In the Beginning

[abe]

Hi Mike,

1. If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?

2. Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.

The Word of God= Son of God

The Glory of God= Son of God

Peace brother.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,14:54)

Quote (abe @ April 16 2013,16:52) Quote (2besee @ April 15 2013,18:42) Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. John 1:1 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 1 John 1:5 This is the message that we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness—none at all. 1 John 2:8 The darkness is fading away, and the true light is already shining. The person who says that he is in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. The person who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no reason for him to stumble. But the person who hates his brother is in the darkness and lives in the darkness. He does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.' Love is Light Hate is Dark God is Love and God is Light. The opposite to God is Hate and Darkness. ————— Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. Hi 2b, Amen.     Peace brother.

2besee………..> Amen to that also brother.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2013,08:31)

Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,07:14) Only God can reveal to you that God is love, and the meaning of it. Amen Kerwin and Abe. 2be But God as it written in the scriptures ,you just have to read it ,and of cause understand it, And saying God will make you see it ,does not work when he as it written in his scriptures, You say as per scriptures and yet I have ask Kerwin,Abe,and you What is the love of God,and so how is it that scriptures depict God,s love If you going to support someone do you care if what they say is true or not,when you you show scriptures but no understanding in them what would you think others should think???

T,

The new law is not like the old which is text written on stone, paper, and other sundry materials. The new law is written on the human heart by the Spirit and so we are those that believe are compelled to love.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

I wholeheartedly agree with the first statement, Kerwin.  God IS love.  I disagree that love is God.  In fact, I've shown SCRIPTURAL reference to the fact that “love” is not God.

I was speaking the way English is used.  Some people see the statement Love is God in the equivalent manner as they see God is Love.  Neither statement is explicitly true though both are implicitly true in that God loves himself and others and is the source of that same love in others.

So you are essentially asking if God loves himself and others and the same source of that love in others.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,05:22)

Kerwin, I'm also waiting for you to explain away the word “AND” in John 1:14 – so your “Word-Made-Flesh” title thing works. Also, as an afterthought to my last post: God is power.  Is power God Himself? God is just.  Is justice God Himself? God is faithful.  Is faithfulness God Himself? God is kind.  Is kindness God Himself? God is forgiving.  Is forgiving God Himself? I could go on and on, but surely you now see the point I'm making, and therefore your previous error.

Mike,

The Hope was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

A likeness to

The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

You are just used to the traditional way of looking at Scripture.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 15 2013,08:44)

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2013,13:12) Hope is God Ridiculous!  Are you saying that as long as I have HOPE in the Devil, I have Jehovah God – since any “hope” is “God Almighty”? It is also said that God is light, Kerwin.  Is the light radiating from the bulb in my lamb “God”?

Mike,

Quote

Hope is God Hope begins with God. It is God who gives us the energy and hopes to deal with. God is the way to get hopes. If there was no supernatural power then hopes can not [sic] be turned into reality. Hope is the power which gives energy to individuals.  We often hear cases when individuals are cheated or ditched. That does not mean that it is the end of the world. One experience that everyone has to face is Hardships. No one is spared from that.

Note: my source is a blog.  It seems well written except for a dropped word.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,11:55)

Mike, The Hope was made flesh, and dwelt among us. A likeness to The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. You are just used to the traditional way of looking at Scripture.

Kerwin,

I see you are now using all of the words of John 1:14.  That is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, by using all of the words, you must put aside your former “The Word-Made-Flesh” title thing you have been touting.  

And since that is the case, I guess I was wondering why you didn't enlighten us all to your change of understanding.  I would expect an honest Christian man to say something like, “You know, Mike, you are right about that word 'AND'.  My former understanding that Jesus is 'The Word-Made-Flesh' does not work with that word 'AND'.  I have now come to realize that the Word WAS made flesh, AND dwelt among us human beings.  Thanks so much for pointing that out to me.  To ALL OTHERS who listened to my inaccurate understanding, please disregard the things I was saying, because my former understanding does NOT fit the words of the Greek text of John 1:14.  Sorry for inadvertently misleading you good folks.”

Perhaps you could just sign your name to the apology/correction above?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,11:55)

The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

Kerwin,

Is this the wording you are going to stay with from now on?  I have many things to say, now that you've got the correct wording of 1:14.  I just don't want to start to say them only to have you switch back to a different wording again when things start going against your doctrine.

So, can I count on you remaining faithful to your above wording?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 15 2013,20:11)

Hi Mike, I am taking a break, but just had to say something! As I also believe that God is love…………………….

Hey guys,

I'm not shouting at you here, but I want you all to see this:

Pierre and I have NEVER argued that God is NOT love.  We both believe God IS love – just like the scriptures testify.

We are saying that LOVE is not GOD.  Can you guys understand the difference?

So here is the question for all of you:

Is love God?  YES or NO?

Now before you answer, ask yourselves if the love of money is God.  Is the love of pornography God?  Is the love of violence God?

Keep these kinds of things in mind when answering whether or not LOVE is GOD.

Gene?  What's your answer?  YES or NO?

Abe?

Kerwin?

2B?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01)

The Word of God= Son of God

Agreed.  Jesus, the Son of God, is the Word of God – as attested by the scriptures.  He was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being – also attested by scripture.  He was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son – also attested.  All things in heaven and earth were created through this only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ – also attested.

Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01)

The Glory of God= Son of God

I have never heard such a claim, and probably for good reason.  God gives His glory to no one (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11) – yet He gave His Son to us all (John 3:16, Romans 8:32).

Abe, according to the statements you just made, I assume that you believe the Word who was with God in the beginning was NOT God Himself, but the Son of God. Is that a correct assumption on my part?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,23:17)

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2013,08:31) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,07:14) Only God can reveal to you that God is love, and the meaning of it. Amen Kerwin and Abe. 2be But God as it written in the scriptures ,you just have to read it ,and of cause understand it, And saying God will make you see it ,does not work when he as it written in his scriptures, You say as per scriptures and yet I have ask Kerwin,Abe,and you What is the love of God,and so how is it that scriptures depict God,s love If you going to support someone do you care if what they say is true or not,when you you show scriptures but no understanding in them what would you think others should think??? T, The new law is not like the old which is text written on stone, paper, and other sundry materials.  The new law is written on  the human heart by the Spirit and so we are those that believe are compelled to love.

K

you never answered my questions from prior pages ,

I have ask you what is the first commandment is this commandment annulled NO ,Jesus quoted it and remain valid today,

you seem not to understand what it says in the first commandment,read it then tell me is this part of the new covenant yes or NO

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,15:07)

Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01) The Word of God= Son of God Agreed.  Jesus, the Son of God, is the Word of God – as attested by the scriptures.  He was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being – also attested by scripture.  He was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son – also attested.  All things in heaven and earth were created through this only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ – also attested. Quote (abe @ April 15 2013,22:01) The Glory of God= Son of God I have never heard such a claim, and probably for good reason.  God gives His glory to no one (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11) – yet He gave His Son to us all (John 3:16, Romans 8:32). Abe, according to the statements you just made, I assume that you believe the Word who was with God in the beginning was NOT God Himself, but the Son of God.  Is that a correct assumption on my part?

Hi Mike,

Yes, the Son of God.

Jn.17:1   When Jesus had finished saying these things, he looked upward to heaven and said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you – 2just as you have given him authority over all humanity, so that he may give eternal life to everyone you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life – that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. 4 I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.

Rev.21:23   The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its

LAMP       is the  LAMB.

Rev.22:5   There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5And there will no longer be any night; and they will  NOT  have NEED of the    LIGHT of a LAMP     nor the light of the sun, because the   Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.

NOT  have NEED of the    LIGHT of a LAMP

Lord God will illumine them;  Now God shares his Glory.

Gen.1:3   Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Glory of God= Son of God.  (one part)

Peace brother….

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2013,06:56)

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,23:17) Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2013,08:31) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,07:14) Only God can reveal to you that God is love, and the meaning of it. Amen Kerwin and Abe. 2be But God as it written in the scriptures ,you just have to read it ,and of cause understand it, And saying God will make you see it ,does not work when he as it written in his scriptures, You say as per scriptures and yet I have ask Kerwin,Abe,and you What is the love of God,and so how is it that scriptures depict God,s love If you going to support someone do you care if what they say is true or not,when you you show scriptures but no understanding in them what would you think others should think??? T, The new law is not like the old which is text written on stone, paper, and other sundry materials.  The new law is written on  the human heart by the Spirit and so we are those that believe are compelled to love. K you never answered my questions from prior pages , I have ask you what is the first commandment is this commandment annulled NO ,Jesus quoted it and remain valid today, you seem not to understand what it says in the first commandment,read it then tell me is this part of the new covenant yes or NO

T,

Is is the one who lives by the law or the one who lives by the Spirit who bears all the fruit of righteousness.

The first command is love God.
The second command love yourselves and others.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2013,04:49)

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,11:55) Mike, The Hope was made flesh, and dwelt among us. A likeness to The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. You are just used to the traditional way of looking at Scripture. Kerwin, I see you are now using all of the words of John 1:14.  That is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, by using all of the words, you must put aside your former “The Word-Made-Flesh” title thing you have been touting.   And since that is the case, I guess I was wondering why you didn't enlighten us all to your change of understanding.  I would expect an honest Christian man to say something like, “You know, Mike, you are right about that word 'AND'.  My former understanding that Jesus is 'The Word-Made-Flesh' does not work with that word 'AND'.  I have now come to realize that the Word WAS made flesh, AND dwelt among us human beings.  Thanks so much for pointing that out to me.  To ALL OTHERS who listened to my inaccurate understanding, please disregard the things I was saying, because my former understanding does NOT fit the words of the Greek text of John 1:14.  Sorry for inadvertently misleading you good folks.” Perhaps you could just sign your name to the apology/correction above?

Mike,

So are you claiming Jesus is not the Word made flesh?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2013,04:59)

Quote (2besee @ April 15 2013,20:11) Hi Mike, I am taking a break, but just had to say something! As I also believe that God is love……………………. Hey guys, I'm not shouting at you here, but I want you all to see this: Pierre and I have NEVER argued that God is NOT love.  We both believe God IS love – just like the scriptures testify. We are saying that LOVE is not GOD.  Can you guys understand the difference? So here is the question for all of you: Is love God?  YES or NO? Now before you answer, ask yourselves if the love of money is God.  Is the love of pornography God?  Is the love of violence God? Keep these kinds of things in mind when answering whether or not LOVE is GOD. Gene?  What's your answer?  YES or NO? Abe? Kerwin? 2B?

Mike,

I have already quoted someone who obviously believes there is no difference. There are others.

Carl is the human.means the human is Carl and yet you are saying it does not.

[abe]

1Jn.4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

Whoever lives in love lives in God,

Peace.

[2besee]

Amen Abe.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2013,11:49)

Quote (kerwin @ April 16 2013,11:55) Mike, The Hope was made flesh, and dwelt among us. A likeness to The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. You are just used to the traditional way of looking at Scripture. Kerwin, I see you are now using all of the words of John 1:14.  That is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, by using all of the words, you must put aside your former “The Word-Made-Flesh” title thing you have been touting.   And since that is the case, I guess I was wondering why you didn't enlighten us all to your change of understanding.  I would expect an honest Christian man to say something like, “You know, Mike, you are right about that word 'AND'.  My former understanding that Jesus is 'The Word-Made-Flesh' does not work with that word 'AND'.  I have now come to realize that the Word WAS made flesh, AND dwelt among us human beings.  Thanks so much for pointing that out to me.  To ALL OTHERS who listened to my inaccurate understanding, please disregard the things I was saying, because my former understanding does NOT fit the words of the Greek text of John 1:14.  Sorry for inadvertently misleading you good folks.” Perhaps you could just sign your name to the apology/correction above?

Hi Mike,

God is “manifested in the flesh” whenever the Spirit of God is upon man. They are not God – but God is in them, through the spirit. GOOD always happens when the spirit is upon a man.

Jesus had the spirit without measure. Could you imagine that?

John 3:34 'The one whom God sent speaks the words of God, because God does not give the Spirit in limited measure to him.'

The Spirit without measure.
And the one whom God sent…

Sent from where?

Luke 4:1 'Then Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan.'

The Disciples were sent also.

John 17:18 'Just as you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.'

The Disciples were sent from where?

Luke 4 continues..

16Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had been raised. As was his custom, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day. When he stood up to read, 17the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written,
18“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me;
he has anointed me
to tell the good news to the poor.
He has sent me to announce release to the prisoners
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to set oppressed people free,
19and to announce the year of the Lord’s favor.”
20Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. While the eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on him, 21he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled, as you’ve heard it read aloud.”

Was Jesus a pre-existent god, or a man?
According to Paul — a man.

1Corinthians

21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man.

Romans 5,

17For if, through one man, death ruled because of that man’s offense, how much more will those who receive such overflowing grace and the gift of righteousness rule in life because of one man, Jesus the Messiah.

18Consequently, just as one offense resulted in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in justification and life for everyone. 19For just as through one man’s disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one man’s obedience many people will be made righteous.

1Tim 2,

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

[2besee]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 17 2013,04:05)

Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,14:54) Quote (abe @ April 16 2013,16:52) Quote (2besee @ April 15 2013,18:42) Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. John 1:1 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 1 John 1:5 This is the message that we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness—none at all. 1 John 2:8 The darkness is fading away, and the true light is already shining. The person who says that he is in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. The person who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no reason for him to stumble. But the person who hates his brother is in the darkness and lives in the darkness. He does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.' Love is Light Hate is Dark God is Love and God is Light. The opposite to God is Hate and Darkness. ————— Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. Hi 2b, Amen.     Peace brother. 2besee………..> Amen to that also brother. peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene

Thank you Gene.

I missed some verses though, and felt to put them..

John 8:12
'Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

John 12:46
'I've come into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me won't remain in the darkness'

[GeneBalthrop]

2besee and abe……….You both have put forth the truth and used sound and right scriptures, May God bless you both as you are showing yourselves to be champions of the Faith and may the LORD beless and keep you, and make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you, and lift up his countinence upon you, and give you peace

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[Author]

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