- This topic has 3,161 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2013,02:05) Ed J, Mike, and all, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
King James Version (KJV)14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.1 Corinthians 3:16-17
King James Version (KJV)16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
KERWINthose scriptures do not say that ,the LIVING GOD ALMIGHTY COMES AND LIVE IN EVERY BELIEVER ,OR DOES IT
NOT TO ME ,BECAUSE NO MEN CAN SEE GOD AND LIVE ,IT WHAT YOU BELIEVE THEN SEEING IS NOT LIVING IN FULL WITH GOD IS LESS OF A DANGER THAT ONLY SEEING HIM
?Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2013,00:03) Mike, You either acknowledge Scripture is true when it states Jehovah comes to dwell in those that believe through his Spirit or you declare it is false.
If you believe it is true in some manner then you believe God is made flesh in the multitude of believers in the same way.
Kerwin,MEN are flesh. God is NOT man – or don't you believe the scriptures? Therefore, God is NEVER “made flesh” – for that would make Him a MAN – which He is not.
Don't confuse God dwelling IN man via His Spirit with God Himself being “made flesh”.
Your wording is not only asinine, but directly contradicts many scriptures.
BTW, we never finished this “Word-Made-Flesh” discussion. Do you remember from before that the way you are explaining those words won't work in 1:14 because of the word “AND”?
If Jesus IS “The Word-Made-Flesh”, then it can be said that the Word-Made-Flesh dwelled among us. But it CANNOT be said that the Word-Made-Flesh AND dwelled among us.
Let's use my sample for an example:
1. The Self-Made-Man dwelled in Iowa.
2. The Self-Made-Man AND dwelled in Iowa.
See how #1 will work, but #2 won't? The word AND is in the Greek text of John 1:14, Kerwin. And because of that word, your whole theory is shot down. Try again.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 12 2013,08:58) Mike………If God is “IN” you then His Presence is there, Just as he was “IN” Jesus. Now if i and Jesus are Flesh being then God is “IN” and Present “IN” my flesh. Non of that makes God a Flesh being, nor have i suggested it either.
But that IS what Kerwin is saying, Gene. He is saying that God was made flesh.Tell me when God became flesh, Gene.
Btw, you still have questions to answer. I love how YOU start ranting and accusing others of ignoring your questions. But every time I get you tied down on this “other gods” thing, you bail from the discussion – ONLY TO BRING THE SAME CRAP UP LATER – so I have to go through it all again with you.
Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2013,14:05) I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
In YOUR understanding, that means, I will dwell in them, and walk in them, AND EVEN BECOME FLESH LIKE THEM.
Like I said, don't confuse God dwelling IN man via His Spirit with God being “MADE FLESH”.
Kerwin, just address the “AND” problem in 1:14, and we can put this whole “God-Made-Flesh” thing to rest once and for all.
Okay, so nobody was able to tell me how God Almighty Himself could be with God Almighty Himself.
Nobody was able to show me where John the Baptist ever came to testify about the Holy Spirit.
Moving on……………
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Mike………..No word is or can be FLESH, tell us Mike have you “EVER” seen a word made flesh?,
Jesus said , the “words” I am telling you “ARE” Spirit. tell us Mike do you believe that or not , YES OR NO PLEASE,
If you say YES, then do you know why WORDS “ARE” Spirit?
Now Jesus said GOD WAS A SPIRIT , and we must worship him in spirit and truth, correct?,
Mike do you see the tie here yet , God (Spirit) , Word (Spirit) they are the same thing GOD and HIS word are one and the same thing , just as you words and you are the same thing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this.
A word belongs to who spoke it, unless it is a quote. You desperate attempt to make Jesus be the word in John 1:1 is completely false, GOD AND HIS WORDS ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING AND GOD AND HIS WORDS “ARE” SPIRIT.
Mike you still have no idea what a spirit is, so it is no wonder you don't know what a word is also. But if you would simply “believe” Jesus and what he said about the words of God as I have quoted , you could Easley understand it.
Also, if you don't believe God the FATHER was TRULY “IN” THE MAN JESUS RECONCILING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF, YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD, IMO
Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2013,14:38) Okay, so nobody was able to tell me how God Almighty Himself could be with God Almighty Himself. Nobody was able to show me where John the Baptist ever came to testify about the Holy Spirit.
Moving on……………
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Mike…….IAM (that) I AM. God is definitely with himself, just as you are unless you are out of you mind, then you may be not yourself and ready for the nut house.Again for the hundredth time you have no idea what a Spirit is or what it can do or how it can effect and coexist with a person, and also exist outside a person. By person I mean a body of some kind.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2013,08:21) Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2013,02:05) Ed J, Mike, and all, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
King James Version (KJV)14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.1 Corinthians 3:16-17
King James Version (KJV)16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
KERWINthose scriptures do not say that ,the LIVING GOD ALMIGHTY COMES AND LIVE IN EVERY BELIEVER ,OR DOES IT
NOT TO ME ,BECAUSE NO MEN CAN SEE GOD AND LIVE ,IT WHAT YOU BELIEVE THEN SEEING IS NOT LIVING IN FULL WITH GOD IS LESS OF A DANGER THAT ONLY SEEING HIM
?
T,In a way it does since each person is the temple of the living God. Since each true believer is in a way the temple of the living God then the multitude of them are the temple of the living God.
Note: I choose to use temple as opposed to temples because there is only one living God though many disciples.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2013,08:48) Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2013,00:03) Mike, You either acknowledge Scripture is true when it states Jehovah comes to dwell in those that believe through his Spirit or you declare it is false.
If you believe it is true in some manner then you believe God is made flesh in the multitude of believers in the same way.
Kerwin,MEN are flesh. God is NOT man – or don't you believe the scriptures? Therefore, God is NEVER “made flesh” – for that would make Him a MAN – which He is not.
Don't confuse God dwelling IN man via His Spirit with God Himself being “made flesh”.
Your wording is not only asinine, but directly contradicts many scriptures.
Mike,Quote Therefore, God is NEVER “made flesh” – for that would make Him a MAN – which He is not. According the inference of this statement the soul of a mouse that dwells in the tent of a human being becomes a human being. So each mouse is essential human, as is every other beast of the field.
To me the tent is nothing and the one dwelling in it is that which determines what kind it is.
Jehovah cannot be tempted by evil; if his soul were to reside in flesh, which I do not claim, he would still not be tempted by evil.
I am assuming that you are to used to Trinitarianism and thus jump to the conclusion that I am saying the way Jehovah is in those that believe is by his soul. It is not.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,19:38) Okay, so nobody was able to tell me how God Almighty Himself could be with God Almighty Himself. Nobody was able to show me where John the Baptist ever came to testify about the Holy Spirit.
Moving on……………
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Hi Mike,(quote)
Nobody was able to show me where John the Baptist ever came to testify about the Holy Spirit.Jn.1:29 The next day he(baptist) saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30″This is He on behalf of whom I said, After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.' 31″I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” 32John testified saying, “I have seen the SPIRIT descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33″I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the SPIRIT descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the HOLY SPIRIT. ' 34″I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”
I capitalized the word Spirit.
27John(baptist) answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven. 28″You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, I am not the Christ,' but, 'I have been sent ahead of Him.' 29″He who HAS the BRIDE is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made full. 30″He must increase, but I must decrease.
Do you think the BRIDE is the Spirit?
Did you notice the word HAS ?
Peace brother………..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2013,09:38) Okay, so nobody was able to tell me how God Almighty Himself could be with God Almighty Himself. Nobody was able to show me where John the Baptist ever came to testify about the Holy Spirit.
Moving on……………
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Mike,In the beginning the Love was with the God and the Love was God.
Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2013,03:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2013,09:38) Okay, so nobody was able to tell me how God Almighty Himself could be with God Almighty Himself. Nobody was able to show me where John the Baptist ever came to testify about the Holy Spirit.
Moving on……………
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Mike,In the beginning the Love was with the God and the Love was God.
KerwinGod his love but in Gods way not in the human way ,
do you know what his the LOVE of God
Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2013,23:42) Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2013,08:21) Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2013,02:05) Ed J, Mike, and all, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
King James Version (KJV)14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.1 Corinthians 3:16-17
King James Version (KJV)16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
KERWINthose scriptures do not say that ,the LIVING GOD ALMIGHTY COMES AND LIVE IN EVERY BELIEVER ,OR DOES IT
NOT TO ME ,BECAUSE NO MEN CAN SEE GOD AND LIVE ,IT WHAT YOU BELIEVE THEN SEEING IS NOT LIVING IN FULL WITH GOD IS LESS OF A DANGER THAT ONLY SEEING HIM
?
T,In a way it does since each person is the temple of the living God. Since each true believer is in a way the temple of the living God then the multitude of them are the temple of the living God.
Note: I choose to use temple as opposed to temples because there is only one living God though many disciples.
kerwinyour logic ,does not make sens ;you try to bring men in possession of God , this will never happen ,
the best men can come to God is by obeying him and believe that he as send his godly son to earth to save the men that are worthy to be saved ,or in a way the people that are his ,
we know what scriptures teaches to become part of God's people
but knowing and doing what he ask is not the same ,
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 13 2013,08:32) Mike………..No word is or can be FLESH…………
Gene,For the hundredth time, the king of Abyssinia had a spokesman called Kal Hatze – which means “The Word of the King”. This was a flesh and blood MAN, Gene. Do you understand this? YES or NO?
So in this case, the SPOKESMAN of that king, who was called “The Word of the King”, was flesh. Do you understand this? YES or NO?
So in this case, a “word” was “flesh”. Do you understand this? YES or NO?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 13 2013,08:32) Now Jesus said GOD WAS A SPIRIT………….
So then God was NOT “made flesh”, as Kerwin says?Quote (abe @ April 13 2013,12:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,19:38) 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Hi Mike,Do you think the BRIDE is the Spirit?
Did you notice the word HAS ?
Peace brother………..
Hi Abe,Your post is like deja vu.
I already explained to Gene that just because John mentioned the Holy Spirit in his TESTIMONY about Jesus – it doesn't mean John ever actually TESTIFIED about the Holy Spirit.For example:
John 1:27
He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.Do you see how John's TESTIMONY is about JESUS, and how the fact that John mentions the sandals OF JESUS doesn't mean John came to testify about those sandals?
It is the same in the scriptures you posted. I have showed you guys at least FIVE scriptures where it is CLEARLY stated that John came to testify ABOUT Jesus.
So when the verse says, John came as a witness, to testify about him……….., who is the MOST LIKELY candidate? The sandals, which were mentioned in passing? The Holy Spirit, which was mentioned in passing? Or JESUS, who is clearly the one John DID come to testify about?
I've also already told you that the bride is New Jerusalem – just like the scriptures CLEARLY tell us.
Now that that's settled, you have a new verse to consider, and new questions to answer. They are in the quote box above.
peace
Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2013,11:56) According the inference of this statement the soul of a mouse that dwells in the tent of a human being becomes a human being.
I know nothing about any scripture that speaks of the soul of a mouse dwelling in a human being.What I know is that God is never “made flesh”. This is just the best you can come up with at this time to avoid the OBVIOUS understanding of “the Word was made flesh AND dwelled among us”.
Would you please address that word “AND”, Kerwin?
Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2013,15:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2013,09:38)
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word was God Himself-Made-Flesh (as Kerwin's new kick dictates), why did this Word have the glory of an only begotten Son from the Father?
Wouldn't God Himself dwell on earth with the glory of GOD? Please explain.
Mike,In the beginning the Love was with the God and the Love was God.
Kerwin,When you can show me your statement in the scriptures, I'll be happy to discuss it.
Right now, I'd appreciate DIRECT answers to my DIRECT questions above. Thanks.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 14 2013,14:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 13 2013,08:32) Mike………..No word is or can be FLESH…………
Gene,For the hundredth time, the king of Abyssinia had a spokesman called Kal Hatze – which means “The Word of the King”. This was a flesh and blood MAN, Gene. Do you understand this? YES or NO?
So in this case, the SPOKESMAN of that king, who was called “The Word of the King”, was flesh. Do you understand this? YES or NO?
So in this case, a “word” was “flesh”. Do you understand this? YES or NO?
Mike………And for the thousandth time that was a “title” affoded that servant, and had nothing to do with any real Kings word being the servant at all. It simply meant that the servant was relaying the Kings words, nothing more.Jesus also “SPOKE” God's word to us , they certainly were not HIS words, He said so himself. I have no problem with say Jesus was God Spokesman on this earth, But what you are saying is that His Flesh was the Word, but Jesus flesh was flesh, and NO Flesh IS A WORD. Because a Word is SPIRIT and NO SPIRIT IS FLESH>
Mike you have “never” seen a word become flesh and never will either. The ONLY way to understand it is to understand that GOD the FATHER TRULY came to INDWELL the BODY of the “FLESH MAN” JESUS, and Spoke through Him both indirectly and at times DIRECTLY. I have shown you many time where God was SPEAKING “FIRST” PERSON through Jesus' mouth, but you refuse to acknowledge it.
Lets face the truth for a change you truly do not believe God the Father was indeed “IN” the Man Jesus as Jesus said He was. You only believe Just a Part of Him was , so Please tell us what “PART” was in Jesus' Mike and what Parts were not in him. Scripture say the “FULLNESS” of God Dwelt in him , but you say Just a part, so what “PART” was that Mike?
Peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
