In the Beginning

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,07:58)

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,10:49) Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,00:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi T, and Mike, Is.66:8   “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a    land   be born in one day? Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her    sons. This word land?   Is the exact same word as Earth. Can the EARTH be born in one day Word Origin a prim. root Definition earth, land NASB Translation common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3). Does that help to understand? Peace brothers. Abe Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ?  Thank you Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask , But they are good scriptures but it seems you do not understand them , And if you do please explain them to me , Hi T, 18But be you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I     CREATE:   for,    behold,   I    CREATE   Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. Is.66:8   Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? Rom.8:23    And not only this, but also we ourselves, having   the       first fruits       of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the   redemption   of our body. Do you SEE the   FIRSTFRUITS    they are born from the dead.  Abraham,  Moses,  Elijah, etc.  Remnants,   Heb.11. Gal.4:26   But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. Remember the   Bride?   and the   Wife? Any more questions I will be glad to answer you or Mike? Peace brothers.

abe

but you did not answer anything,you just requote the same scriptures over and over,

i really do not need you to show me scriptures i have 20 bible what i read as needed,

but you should answer my question,but i guess you can not answer it,right???

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,18:17)

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,07:58) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,10:49) Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,00:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi T, and Mike, Is.66:8   “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a    land   be born in one day? Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her    sons. This word land?   Is the exact same word as Earth. Can the EARTH be born in one day Word Origin a prim. root Definition earth, land NASB Translation common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3). Does that help to understand? Peace brothers. Abe Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ?  Thank you Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask , But they are good scriptures but it seems you do not understand them , And if you do please explain them to me , Hi T, 18But be you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I     CREATE:   for,    behold,   I    CREATE   Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. Is.66:8   Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? Rom.8:23    And not only this, but also we ourselves, having   the       first fruits       of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the   redemption   of our body. Do you SEE the   FIRSTFRUITS    they are born from the dead.  Abraham,  Moses,  Elijah, etc.  Remnants,   Heb.11. Gal.4:26   But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. Remember the   Bride?   and the   Wife? Any more questions I will be glad to answer you or Mike? Peace brothers. abe but you did not answer anything,you just requote the same scriptures over and over, i really do not need you to show me scriptures i have 20 bible what i read as needed, but you should answer my question,but i guess you can not answer it,right???

Hi T,

Read it again, all the answers are there.

Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once?

Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask

Firstfruits? Born from the Dead. Christ the Head of the Body.(Spiritual) Bride.

And you and Mike thought it was God? I think deep down You and Mike are trinitarians.

Peace brother..

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,09:19)

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,18:17) Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,07:58) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,10:49) Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,00:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) Why are you turning the table on me………… you do not answer the question ,but go on as if my questions becomes yours Agreed. Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi T, and Mike, Is.66:8   “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a    land   be born in one day? Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her    sons. This word land?   Is the exact same word as Earth. Can the EARTH be born in one day Word Origin a prim. root Definition earth, land NASB Translation common (1), countries (15), countries and their lands (1), country (44), countryside (1), distance* (3), dust (1), earth (655), earth the ground (1), earth's (1), fail* (1), floor (1), ground (119), land (1581), lands (57), lands have their land (2), open (1), other* (2), piece (1), plateau* (1), region (1), territories (1), wild (1), world (3). Does that help to understand? Peace brothers. Abe Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ?  Thank you Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask , But they are good scriptures but it seems you do not understand them , And if you do please explain them to me , Hi T, 18But be you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I     CREATE:   for,    behold,   I    CREATE   Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. Is.66:8   Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? Rom.8:23    And not only this, but also we ourselves, having   the       first fruits       of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the   redemption   of our body. Do you SEE the   FIRSTFRUITS    they are born from the dead.  Abraham,  Moses,  Elijah, etc.  Remnants,   Heb.11. Gal.4:26   But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. Remember the   Bride?   and the   Wife? Any more questions I will be glad to answer you or Mike? Peace brothers. abe but you did not answer anything,you just requote the same scriptures over and over, i really do not need you to show me scriptures i have 20 bible what i read as needed, but you should answer my question,but i guess you can not answer it,right??? Hi T, Read it again, all the answers are there. Can a    nation   be brought forth all at once? Your scriptures you quote have nothing to do with what I have ask Firstfruits?  Born from the Dead.  Christ the Head of the Body.(Spiritual)  Bride. And you and Mike thought it was God?  I think deep down You and Mike are trinitarians. Peace brother..

abe

Quote

Could you point out the connection to Christ being the holy spirit by the fact that he was resurrected ? Thank you

this is my question again,I have ask you that question because you made the declaration that Jesus Christ the son of God ;his the holy spirit ;

i DO NOT BELIEVE THAT CHRIST HIS THE HOLY SPIRIT ,BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT BELONGS TO HIS FATHER ,HOW CAN SOMEONE BE WHAT HE RECEIVED????SINS CHRIST RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT HE CAN NOT BE THE HOLY SPIRIT ,

Quote

And you and Mike thought it was God? I think deep down You and Mike are trinitarians.

COULD YOU TELL US WHAT IS IT THAT “WE THOUGHT “” WAS GOD IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE READ BOTH OF US VERY WRONG ,SO PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,07:34)

Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2013,10:58) Given that is the Son in Paul, as written of in Galatians 1:16, Jesus or the Spirit? Galatians 1:16 King James Version (KJV) 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Galatians 1:16 NET © to reveal his Son in 1  me so that I could preach him among the Gentiles………. Footnote #1 says: Or “to me”; the Greek preposition ἐν (en) can mean either, depending on the context. Consider these translations: NLT © Then he revealed his Son to me…….. MSG © Now he has intervened and revealed his Son to me…….. NRSV © to reveal his Son to me……… Kerwin, you are reaching.  Consider which Son of God dwells in the believers: John 14:23 King James Version Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. So even if you insist that the Son of God was “IN” Paul, it follows the words that JESUS said, right? So I'm not seeing any secret “Holy Spirit Son” message here.

Mike,

You see it but say the evidence is not firm.

[abe]

Hi T,

(quote)
this is my question again,I have ask you that question because you made the declaration that Jesus Christ the son of God ;his the holy spirit ;

I did not say this. The Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit.

(quote)
COULD YOU TELL US WHAT IS IT THAT “WE THOUGHT “” WAS GOD IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE READ BOTH OF US VERY WRONG ,SO PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION

Mike said the Holy Spirit was not created.I am sure Mike said it. But not you? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not created?

Peace brother.

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,11:11)

Hi T, (quote) this is my question again,I have ask you that question because you made the declaration that Jesus Christ the son of God ;his the holy spirit ; I did not say this. The   Spirit   of Christ is the Holy Spirit. (quote) COULD YOU TELL US WHAT IS IT THAT “WE THOUGHT “” WAS GOD  IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE READ BOTH OF US VERY WRONG ,SO PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION Mike said the Holy Spirit was not created.I am sure Mike said it. But not you? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not created? Peace brother.

abe

wen you click “quote” to copy and frame it ,you have to click “quote” again after yous have copy and paste,(if you look closely you can see a little star in the icon after the first click ,tells you you have a open quote,to close it you click it again and the little star goes away try it and see.

Quote

Mike said the Holy Spirit was not created.I am sure Mike said it. But not you? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not created?

is God almighty created NO ,then how can his spirit be created or his powers

now Christ “the Word of God was created the very first of creation all other things were created through him.

Quote

Hi Gene, To me, that sounds like Jesus and the “Holy Spirit Son of God” are now one being, not two. Amen.

this is from your quote to Gene ,

so now you say ;what

[2besee]

Mike, Gene, Kerwin, Abe and all,
All of these questions would drive a person mad!

I don't know about you, but I think this conversation needs to come to an end.

[2besee]

Only something from above can work the powers of above. The Jerusalem above is free and peaceful. This behavior that is seen by all who read here is not from above but is vain and puffed up and doing no good to the listener nor to the ones who are being questioned. You will not hear.

[2besee]

Abe, Kerwin, Gene,
Walk away …trust me…

Peace Brothers.

[GeneBalthrop]

2Besee………..Indeed it is futile brother, it simply comes down to either you have the understanding or not, all else is vanity and vexsation of spirit. I have a hard time giving up, but after 8 or 9 years , i think it's time i just put it in God hands and step back , nothing has been accomplished here. It only leads to doubtfull desputations, perhaps Prayer is the best thing we can do and just put it in God hands.

peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………………..gene

[2besee]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 04 2013,01:35)

2Besee………..Indeed it is futile brother,  it simply comes down to either you have the understanding or not, all else is vanity and vexsation of spirit. I have a hard time giving up, but after 8 or  9 years , i think it's time i just put it in God hands and step back , nothing has been accomplished here. It only leads to doubtfull desputations, perhaps Prayer is the best thing we can do and just put it in God hands. peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,
How do you know that nothing has been accomplished through all of your posts? I for one have learnt heaps in the past months, and not everyone who reads here, posts here.

I have the feeling though that two members are just determined to prove us wrong, and that is about all. Maybe I am wrong.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,14:54)

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:38) Hi Mike. Quote If there is literally only one spirit, then the spirit of the antichrist is also the Holy Spirit.  And your spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And Satan's spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And so on. Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 6:17,12:13, etc. Let me reword these as questions: Is the spirit of the antichrist the Holy Spirit?  YES or NO? Is your spirit the Holy Spirit?  YES or NO? Is Satan's spirit the Holy Spirit?  YES or NO?

I will not be answering those questions Mike, I can't believe you even asked them.

[2besee]

Be careful how far you will go to prove your point Mike.

[2besee]

I would like to hear more of Abe's view, but I don't want Abe to feel pressured into answering.

In your own time, Abe. I will be listening, as usual.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,14:43)

Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:34) Mike, I understand Abe's verses. You need to really pay attention, or you may miss something. Pierre and I also understand those verses just fine, 2B.  We're just not seeing where they say the Holy Spirit is a son of God, or where they say Jesus became the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection. Perhaps you could point out which exact words in those verses teach us these things? Also, didn't you just say that you don't know if Jesus and the “Holy Spirit Son of God” are now one, or two?  So if you're not even sure of the doctrine you insist on ramming down our throats, how can you be so impatient with us?

Okay Mike here is another verse.
Please read the whole thing slowly, paying attention also to the bolded parts, okay.

<>
International Standard Version

Preaching in the Power of God

1When I came to you, brothers, I didn’t come and tell you about God’s secret with rhetorical language or wisdom. 2For while I was with you I resolved to know nothing except Jesus the Messiah, and him crucified. 3It was in weakness, fear, and great trembling that I came to you. 4My message and my preaching were not accompanied by clever, wise words, but by a display of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on God’s power.

God’s Spirit Reveals Everything

6However, when we are among mature people, we do speak a message of wisdom, but not the wisdom of this world or of the rulers of this world, who are passing off the scene. 7Instead, we speak about God’s wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9But as it is written,

“No eye has seen, no ear has heard,
and no mind has imagined
the things that God has prepared
for those who love him.”

10But God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.

11Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God’s Spirit. 12Now, we have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we can understand the things that were freely given to us by God. 13We don’t speak about these things with words taught us by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, as we explain spiritual things to spiritual people. 14A person who isn’t spiritual doesn’t accept the things of God’s Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can’t understand them because they are spiritually evaluated. 15The spiritual person evaluates everything but is subject to no one else’s evaluation. 16For
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so that he can advise him?”

However, we have the mind of the Messiah.

This scripture goes with other scripture.
Maybe you will not see what i could see, I don't know.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ April 02 2013,20:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,16:34) Quote (abe @ April 01 2013,20:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,17:40) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2013,11:40) The fact that Christ is resurrected  from the dead it does not make him the holy spirit ,right ? I'd like to hear Abe's answer as well. Hi Mike, Gal.4:6   Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Peace. That is a scripture, Abe………… not an answer to Pierre's question. Please answer his question DIRECTLY, because your scripture surely isn't saying that Jesus became the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection. Hi Mike, Gal.4:6   Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Mike you are in complete  DENIAL  on this verse? Do you understand that? Peace brother..

Abe,

As Pierre and I have clearly pointed out to you, we aren't even able to see what it is you think this verse is claiming. How can we be “in denial” about something when we don't even know what that something is?

Are you claiming that “the spirit of the Son” in that verse is the Holy Spirit? If so, then just PLAINLY say as much.

If not, then what exactly ARE you claiming from that verse?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2013,22:12)

Quote (abe @ April 03 2013,09:19) And you and Mike thought it was God?  I think deep down You and Mike are trinitarians. COULD YOU TELL US WHAT IS IT THAT “WE THOUGHT “” WAS GOD

I was wondering the same thing.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,23:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2013,07:34) Consider which Son of God dwells in the believers: John 14:23 King James Version Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. So even if you insist that the Son of God was “IN” Paul, it follows the words that JESUS said, right? So I'm not seeing any secret “Holy Spirit Son” message here. Mike, You see it but say the evidence is not firm.

I see where Christ, like his God, can metaphorically be “in” believers like Paul. And I see in the scripture I quoted for you that Jesus himself says as much.

How you went from Jesus being “in” Paul to the Holy Spirit being a son of God is beyond me.

Show me the path you took to get from point A to point B, Kerwin. And show me the other scriptures that support the conclusion you arrived at concerning Gal 1:16.

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

It seems to me that Abe is using Gal 4:6, and Kerwin is using Gal 1:16 as “proof” that God's Holy Spirit is His Son…….. just because they both mention “the spirit of the Son”.

My question to Abe and Kerwin is this:

Does the Holy Spirit of God have a spirit of its/his own?  YES or NO?

(I've asked this before, but got no response.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ April 03 2013,14:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,14:54) Quote (2besee @ April 02 2013,19:38) Hi Mike. Quote If there is literally only one spirit, then the spirit of the antichrist is also the Holy Spirit.  And your spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And Satan's spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And so on. Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 6:17,12:13, etc. Let me reword these as questions: Is the spirit of the antichrist the Holy Spirit?  YES or NO? Is your spirit the Holy Spirit?  YES or NO? Is Satan's spirit the Holy Spirit?  YES or NO? I will not be answering those questions Mike, I can't believe you even asked them.

So then there is NOT literally only ONE spirit, is there?

You must learn, 2B, to decypher when scriptural words are literal, when they are metaphorical, and when they are emphatical.

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