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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,15:47) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:26) Mike, I notice that you never comment on this.
Show me from scripture, 2B. When I see your claim supported in today's canon, THEN I might be interested in reading this other book.But since you cannot produce one single shred of scriptural evidence that the Holy Spirit of God was ever considered to be the Son of God, why would I be interested in a book that teaches what is NOT taught in the scriptures?
2B, I am not interested in Shepherd, commentators, early Jewish writings, or anything else UNTIL you can first show it to me in what we today call “scripture”. If you can do that, THEN I will consider the other writings, okay?
As Gene said: Show us CLEARLY WORDED EVIDENCE that Jesus pre-existed as some other 'god' called the Logos. You CAN'T. Wheres, I can show you through Scripture with the backing of clearly worded PROOF that the Holy Spirit is called the Son of God. Hermas which was c.a.l.l.e.d c.a.n.o.n until they took it away, was ACCEPTED by the early Church. they had no problems with its teachings that the Son was the Holy Spirit, neither do the Jews have difficulty understanding the power of God called the Holy Spirit as known also as the MESSIAH.Quote:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.html
'The field is this world; and the Lord of the field is He who created, and perfected, and strengthened all things; and the son is the Holy Spirit.
The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it.
For this conduct of the flesh pleased Him, because it was not defiled on the earth while having the Holy Spirit.
He took, therefore, as fellow-councillors His Son and the glorious angels, in order that this flesh, which had been subject to the body without a fault, might have some place of tabernacle, and that it might not appear that the reward of its servitude had been lost, for the flesh that has been found without spot or defilement, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, will receive a reward.'
Do YOU have such clearly worded evidence?
Can you not feel that the Shepherd of Hermas is inspired?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,15:54) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:52) ……and was declared to be the Son of God in power…….
So if Jesus is now “the Son of God in power”, where does that leave this OTHER “Son of God, the Holy Spirit”?Has God's other Son lost his power? Is Jesus now higher than even the “Holy Spirit Son of God”?
Or will you now flip-flop back again, and claim they merged together as one in heaven?
2B, you have not shown one scripture that even HINTS at God's Holy Spirit being His Son.
Why not spend a minute or two working on your OTHER problem with John 1:1?
Please explain to us how God Almighty Himself could have been WITH God Almighty Himself in the beginning.
Quote: Hebrew for Christians:http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_o….od.html
The Spirit of YHVH is YHVH Himslef…
In short, as the ruah is to the created nephesh, so the Ruach Elohim is to God Himslef, part of God and identified with God. Ruach may be understood as the Author of the animating dynamic of the created order, the underlying Priniple of creation, and the One that imparts the nephesh to the entire universe.
Now, you see. The Hebrews can understand that.
They can understand how the Holy Spirit can be a part of God and also be God Himself.See, you believe that the Son of God was a little god, whereas I believe that the Son of God was powerful and a part of God.
You believe that The Son of God on earth was made lower than His former low self (IYO) whereas I believe that The Holy Spirit lost no power at all, but rather that the Holy Spirit strengthened and upheld the Son of God, Jesus, and that together, they worked as one, and together they conquered death, and that Jesus is now inherited a name that is above all other names, and that the Spirit is here now in our hearts, connecting heaven and God with earth and man.Mike,
2besee understood my question about whether is is flesh and blood that cries Abba Father or if instead it is the Son within.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,20:39) Good one Abe 
Hi 2b,Heb.2:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
Peace brother..
Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,10:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:09) Mike, it shows that there are two: The Son of Man AND the Holy Spirit, and that the two are different (You can say a word against one and be forgiven but you cannot say a word against the other and be forgiven).
Yes 2B. I AGREE that Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God are TWO different things. But how does that scripture say that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God?Learn from the scriptures, 2B:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Do you notice that NO ONE was saying Jesus was “the Holy Spirit Son of God”? Yet Peter got it right when he said Jesus was the “Son of God”, right?
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.
2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
AbeGod his a spirit being,we are spirit souls in working in the flesh ,
Our spirit his our will ,wants,by our flesh we act upon those wills and wants,either good or bad,
Now God also have a will and wants and it is through his spiritual body that he act to fulfill his wills and wants but only in good ,truth,
This is why all his written words and his son ,apostles have asked to worship Their God in spirit and truth,and stop to live as animal in the flesh,got it
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,10:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:09) Mike, it shows that there are two: The Son of Man AND the Holy Spirit, and that the two are different (You can say a word against one and be forgiven but you cannot say a word against the other and be forgiven).
Yes 2B. I AGREE that Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God are TWO different things. But how does that scripture say that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God?Learn from the scriptures, 2B:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Do you notice that NO ONE was saying Jesus was “the Holy Spirit Son of God”? Yet Peter got it right when he said Jesus was the “Son of God”, right?
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.
2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
AbeGod his a spirit being,we are spirit souls in working in the flesh ,
Our spirit his our will ,wants,by our flesh we act upon those wills and wants,either good or bad,
Now God also have a will and wants and it is through his spiritual body that he act to fulfill his wills and wants but only in good ,truth,
This is why all his written words and his son ,apostles have asked to worship Their God in spirit and truth,and stop to live as animal in the flesh,got it
Hi T,(quote)
Our spirit his our will.Lk,22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Please explain?
Peace brother.
Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,19:26) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,20:39) Good one Abe
Hi 2b,Heb.2:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
Peace brother..
Yes Abe, good verse.Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,13:30) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,10:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:09) Mike, it shows that there are two: The Son of Man AND the Holy Spirit, and that the two are different (You can say a word against one and be forgiven but you cannot say a word against the other and be forgiven).
Yes 2B. I AGREE that Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God are TWO different things. But how does that scripture say that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God?Learn from the scriptures, 2B:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Do you notice that NO ONE was saying Jesus was “the Holy Spirit Son of God”? Yet Peter got it right when he said Jesus was the “Son of God”, right?
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.
2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
AbeGod his a spirit being,we are spirit souls in working in the flesh ,
Our spirit his our will ,wants,by our flesh we act upon those wills and wants,either good or bad,
Now God also have a will and wants and it is through his spiritual body that he act to fulfill his wills and wants but only in good ,truth,
This is why all his written words and his son ,apostles have asked to worship Their God in spirit and truth,and stop to live as animal in the flesh,got it
Hi T,(quote)
Our spirit his our will.Lk,22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Please explain?
Peace brother.
abewhy did Christ the son of God came into the world
to give up his live for our sins;right
YESso why is it that Christ ask his father ; “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
tell me who's will was it to create all things ;God or someone else
tell me who's plan was it to save humanity ,God's or someone else
tell me are men created as human sons of God or of someone else
tell me was Christ on earth send of doing his own will or his father's will
if it was is father's will then it is normal that he would ask him if he could change the part of him going through dead ,would it be
Mt 3:14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Mt 3:15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.understanding things the way they should be is the most important ,truth and will of God ,not ours.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 31 2013,15:49) Quote: The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it.
unquote
Hi 2Besee,That is very awkwardly worded,
but I agree with that for the most part.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Mar. 31 2013,15:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,15:47) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:26) Mike, I notice that you never comment on this.
Show me from scripture, 2B. When I see your claim supported in today's canon, THEN I might be interested in reading this other book.But since you cannot produce one single shred of scriptural evidence that the Holy Spirit of God was ever considered to be the Son of God, why would I be interested in a book that teaches what is NOT taught in the scriptures?
2B, I am not interested in Shepherd, commentators, early Jewish writings, or anything else UNTIL you can first show it to me in what we today call “scripture”. If you can do that, THEN I will consider the other writings, okay?
As Gene said: Show us CLEARLY WORDED EVIDENCE that Jesus pre-existed as some other 'god' called the Logos. You CAN'T. Wheres, I can show you through Scripture with the backing of clearly worded PROOF that the Holy Spirit is called the Son of God. Hermas which was c.a.l.l.e.d c.a.n.o.n until they took it away, was ACCEPTED by the early Church. they had no problems with its teachings that the Son was the Holy Spirit, neither do the Jews have difficulty understanding the power of God called the Holy Spirit as known also as the MESSIAH.Quote:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.html
'The field is this world; and the Lord of the field is He who created, and perfected, and strengthened all things; and the son is the Holy Spirit.
The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it.
For this conduct of the flesh pleased Him, because it was not defiled on the earth while having the Holy Spirit.
He took, therefore, as fellow-councillors His Son and the glorious angels, in order that this flesh, which had been subject to the body without a fault, might have some place of tabernacle, and that it might not appear that the reward of its servitude had been lost, for the flesh that has been found without spot or defilement, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, will receive a reward.'
Do YOU have such clearly worded evidence?
Can you not feel that the Shepherd of Hermas is inspired?
2besee…….Exclent Posts, I told Mike and T8 severial times over the years, that the Trinitarinas were closer to the truth them they were, becasue they at least see God's Presence in Jesus, but there problem of course is ,they believe Jesus is that God Presence that was “IN” Him and as you and I know He was not himself that presence but was a Man and it was the Spirit of God that was “IN” the flesh man, doing the Works.Jesus plainly said , the son of man can do nohting of “himself” , the Father “IN” me He does the work
I am so glad you and Kerwin, EDJ, ABE, me, and other like minded brothers and sister are on board here brother, many have came and gone over the 8 or 9 years i have been here. While we may not agree on every little thing we do certainely agree on this at least, And this is a BIG THING Not a little one.
My greatest hope here is that T8, Mike, and Pierre, and Lu, would come to see this truth also as we have been allowed to see brother. You have shown this truth in a more excelent way brother. I knew God brought you here, did i not say that in the beginning I could tell by the sound and clear and honest way you worded things. Now continue brother who knows what good God may work through you.
Peace and love to you and all the rest to…………………gene
Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,12:26) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,20:39) Good one Abe
Hi 2b,Heb.2:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
Peace brother..
Abe,It is a good one for the point as the same word that is spirits here is the spirits in “seven spirits” and “spirits of the prophets” in Revelations.
It is also the spirits in “unclean spirits” and “evil spirits” in a number of passages about demon ownership.
The following is not Scripture. It is a test of interpretations.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of the Seven spirits, and live?
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits of the prophets, and live?
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of unclean spirits, and live?
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of evil spirits, and live?
Which of these interpretations pass the smell test?
Note: 1 Corinthians 12:10 seems to be speaking of the spirits of the human heart. Some think it is the spirits of prophecy but all believers can distinguish between the true and the false.
2bee
Quote the son is the Holy Spirit. The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose.
YOU ONLY COPY THIS FROM THE INTERNET AND NEVER REALLY THINK ABOUT IT RIGHT
SO LET ME HELP YOU AND LET THINK ON THIS
1)WHAT IS THE “HOLY ”
2) WHAT SPIRIT DO YOU TALKING ABOUT
A)THE BEING OF GOD'S BODY??? B)THE MIND AND WILL OF GOD 3) WHICH “SPIRIT ” PREEXISTED THAT CREATED EVERY CREATURE
IF IT IS NOT cHRIST THE ONLY SON OF GOD 4) WHY IS IT THAT GOD ONLY RECOGNIZED ONLY ONE SON TO BE BEGOTTEN ,YET SCRIPTURES CALL ALL OTHER SONS OF GOD EVEN ADAM
5) AND WHAT WAS THAT “SPIRIT ” THAT GOD MADE TO BE DWELLING IN THE FLESH
? AND WHICH ONES DID HE CHOSE PLEASE ANSWER ALL THOSE QUESTIONS SO THAT I MAY RECEIVE UNDERSTANDING AND NOT BE STAYING BLIND IN TRUTH YOU SEEM TO HAVE ,
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,10:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:09) Mike, it shows that there are two: The Son of Man AND the Holy Spirit, and that the two are different (You can say a word against one and be forgiven but you cannot say a word against the other and be forgiven).
Yes 2B. I AGREE that Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God are TWO different things. But how does that scripture say that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God?Learn from the scriptures, 2B:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Do you notice that NO ONE was saying Jesus was “the Holy Spirit Son of God”? Yet Peter got it right when he said Jesus was the “Son of God”, right?
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.
2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
AbeGod his a spirit being,we are spirit souls in working in the flesh ,
Our spirit his our will ,wants,by our flesh we act upon those wills and wants,either good or bad,
Now God also have a will and wants and it is through his spiritual body that he act to fulfill his wills and wants but only in good ,truth,
This is why all his written words and his son ,apostles have asked to worship Their God in spirit and truth,and stop to live as animal in the flesh,got it
Hi T,Acts2:32 n This Jesus has God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he has shed forth this, which you now see and hear.
received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost,
You are saying Jesus received God HIMSELF.
Yes or no?
Peace brother.
Peace brother..
Quote (abe @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39)
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
Doesn't answer my question, Abe.Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,23:16) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,10:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:09) Mike, it shows that there are two: The Son of Man AND the Holy Spirit, and that the two are different (You can say a word against one and be forgiven but you cannot say a word against the other and be forgiven).
Yes 2B. I AGREE that Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God are TWO different things. But how does that scripture say that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God?Learn from the scriptures, 2B:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Do you notice that NO ONE was saying Jesus was “the Holy Spirit Son of God”? Yet Peter got it right when he said Jesus was the “Son of God”, right?
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.
2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
AbeGod his a spirit being,we are spirit souls in working in the flesh ,
Our spirit his our will ,wants,by our flesh we act upon those wills and wants,either good or bad,
Now God also have a will and wants and it is through his spiritual body that he act to fulfill his wills and wants but only in good ,truth,
This is why all his written words and his son ,apostles have asked to worship Their God in spirit and truth,and stop to live as animal in the flesh,got it
Hi T,Acts2:32 n This Jesus has God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he has shed forth this, which you now see and hear.
received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost,
You are saying Jesus received God HIMSELF.
Yes or no?
Peace brother.
Peace brother..
abeQuote You are saying Jesus received God HIMSELF. this is a strange question that you ask me ;is my teaching this bad ,that you can twist my words that around
NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAYING ,BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WE CAN NOT RECEIVE PARTS OF GOD'S BODY ,AND SO WE ONLY CAN RECEIVE THE MEANING OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE THINGS HE WANTED US TO DO AND TO UNDERSTAND ,AND FOR THAT PURPOSE HE SEND HIS SON AND AFTER THAT HE SEND THE HELPER TO THE DISCIPLES FOR THE PURPOSE TO GIVE THEM COURAGE,UNDERSTANDING FOR THE THING TO COME IN WHICH THEY WILL AND ARE TAKING PART OF ,
THE TRUTH OF GOD IS NOT SOMETHING GIVEN TO ALL ,ONLY TO THOSE THAT BUILT TRUTH IN THEIR HEARTS AND SO GOD GIVE THEM MORE AND MORE ,THE WICKED CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH OF GOD ,THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,22:38) God sent the Spirit of the Son.
What is so difficult to understand about that – it is not difficult if you understand the Spirit to BE the Son.
First of all, there is nothing in scripture about God sending the spirit OF His Son until way after Jesus ascended back to where he was BEFORE. (John 6:62 – which, btw, is one of the MANY scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Jesus. Gene is dead wrong when he says there aren't any.)Secondly, you are trying to force the words “spirit OF his Son” into meaning “His spirit Son”. That's not the way it works, 2B. You must understand the words AS THEY WERE WRITTEN if you ever hope to come to a true understanding of what the scriptures teach.
Thirdly, JESUS is the Son that God sent into the world. Many scriptures attest to this fact. But you want to change or ignore those many scriptures, and imagine that the Holy Spirit that God gave to His Son, Jesus Christ, is some OTHER son that God sent into the world. Unfortunately, you have been unable to provide even a single scripture that hints at such a thing.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,22:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,15:54)
Please explain to us how God Almighty Himself could have been WITH God Almighty Himself in the beginning.
The Spirit of YHVH is YHVH Himslef…In short, as the ruah is to the created nephesh, so the Ruach Elohim is to God Himslef, part of God and identified with God.
So in your understanding, John 1:1 says, In the beginning was PART OF God, and that PART OF God was with God, and that PART OF God was God.?In other words then, you AGREE with me, Pierre, Kathi, t8, and anyone else with a lick of sense that the “theos” who was WITH “THE theos” in the beginning cannot possibly be exactly the same as “THE theos” he was with?
That's very good, 2B……. because that shows you are using your God-given common sense. And I will assume that we can both agree that “A PART OF” the entire being of God Almighty is not the same as “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY”, right? For example, the hand OF Mike is not the entire being of Mike, right? And the spirit OF Mike does not constitute everything that makes us the entire being of Mike, right?
So it should be crystal clear to both of us that the “theos” in part c cannot possibly be “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY” – which was mentioned in part b, right? Because it is just simple common sense that “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY” could not possibly be with “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY”, right?
Are we still seeing things eye to eye up to this point? Because if we are, then you and I will agree that the “theos” in part c – the one who was with “THE theos” of part b – must be something or someone other than “THE ENTIRE BEING OF GOD ALMIGHTY” that it/he was with, right?
Now, here's the clincher:
Do you agree with me that “THE god” in part b is our heavenly Father, who is the uncreated cause of all things? YES or NO? (Please DIRECTLY and HONESTLY answer this question 2B, Kerwin, Gene, and Abe.)
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 31 2013,09:35) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,23:16) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (abe @ Mar. 31 2013,10:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,16:09) Mike, it shows that there are two: The Son of Man AND the Holy Spirit, and that the two are different (You can say a word against one and be forgiven but you cannot say a word against the other and be forgiven).
Yes 2B. I AGREE that Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God are TWO different things. But how does that scripture say that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God?Learn from the scriptures, 2B:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Do you notice that NO ONE was saying Jesus was “the Holy Spirit Son of God”? Yet Peter got it right when he said Jesus was the “Son of God”, right?
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.
2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
AbeGod his a spirit being,we are spirit souls in working in the flesh ,
Our spirit his our will ,wants,by our flesh we act upon those wills and wants,either good or bad,
Now God also have a will and wants and it is through his spiritual body that he act to fulfill his wills and wants but only in good ,truth,
This is why all his written words and his son ,apostles have asked to worship Their God in spirit and truth,and stop to live as animal in the flesh,got it
Hi T,Acts2:32 n This Jesus has God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he has shed forth this, which you now see and hear.
received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost,
You are saying Jesus received God HIMSELF.
Yes or no?
Peace brother.
Peace brother..
abeQuote You are saying Jesus received God HIMSELF. this is a strange question that you ask me ;is my teaching this bad ,that you can twist my words that around
NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAYING ,BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WE CAN NOT RECEIVE PARTS OF GOD'S BODY ,AND SO WE ONLY CAN RECEIVE THE MEANING OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE THINGS HE WANTED US TO DO AND TO UNDERSTAND ,AND FOR THAT PURPOSE HE SEND HIS SON AND AFTER THAT HE SEND THE HELPER TO THE DISCIPLES FOR THE PURPOSE TO GIVE THEM COURAGE,UNDERSTANDING FOR THE THING TO COME IN WHICH THEY WILL AND ARE TAKING PART OF ,
THE TRUTH OF GOD IS NOT SOMETHING GIVEN TO ALL ,ONLY TO THOSE THAT BUILT TRUTH IN THEIR HEARTS AND SO GOD GIVE THEM MORE AND MORE ,THE WICKED CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH OF GOD ,THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION
Hi T,(quote)
NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAYING ,BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WE CAN NOT RECEIVE PARTS OF GOD'S BODY(quote)
Our spirit his our will.Spirit of God WE CAN NOT RECEIVE PARTS OF GOD'S BODY
You are talking out of BOTH sides of your mouth.
Peace brother.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 30 2013,22:49) The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it.
2B, I will take the writings of this shepherd to task, as time allows, since this writing – not canonized scripture – seems to be the backbone of your argument, and seems to be important to you.First up: The last line of the above quote seems to be saying that the flesh man Jesus of Nazareth became “a partner” with the “Holy Spirit Son of God”.
To me, that sounds like Jesus and the “Holy Spirit Son of God” are now one being, not two. What say you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,09:29) Quote (abe @ Mar. 30 2013,22:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,18:39)
And all throughout the OT, there were hints that God was going to send what? A MESSIAH, right? Jesus is the Messiah God SENT into the world, 2B. And it just so happened that the Messiah God sent into the world was also God's firstborn Son.2B, Gene, and Kerwin, do you guys think the Holy Spirit is the “Messiah” that God was to send into the world? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,Jn.4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Spirit OF Spirit. Spirit of God.
Peace brother.
Doesn't answer my question, Abe.
Hi Mike,Is the Spirit of God? God Himself?
Please Yes or No?
Peace..
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