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Jodi,
I said:
“Jodi, spiritually speaking, if Jesus wasn’t always God’s son, who’s son was Jesus before he became God’s son? Please answer this before we move on.”
you said “I do not understand your question, maybe you can rephrase it?”
Ok, in other words…if there was a time when Jesus was not God’s son, which you say didn’t happen until the Jordan baptism, then tell me who did Jesus belong to as a son before the Jordan?
Who do we all belong to as a son/daughter before we become a son/daughter of God?
Also, please tell me if you understand that the term “firstborn” can apply to the only child in a family and it is not necessary for there to be other children.
Please answer these before we move on.
Hi LU,
The Holy Spirit in Christ and from God is remarkably complex.
In the One Spirit there is the Spirit of truth from the Father (Jn 16.8f)which spoke in Jesus in Jn 2.19.
But there is the servant Spirit of the Son, The Word, as shown in Gal 2.6.
’Because you are sons God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying ‘Abba,! Father!’
Then there are the manifold gifts of prophecy, wisdom, healing, discernment etc that come in the Spirit.
Hi LU,
The Spirit in Christ Jesus said
’I proceeded forth and came from God’
’I am in the Father and the Father is in me’
’The Father and I are one’
Men get distracted by their natural eyes and ears that tell them a man is speaking.
Hi LU,
Okay that makes more sense. Jesus was certainly the son of Mary, and Mary was told that Jesus would be called the Son of God, and you can read through all the scriptures referencing Jesus as the Son of God, and they are after his baptism.
Luke 1: 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end…35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
He shall be called the Son of God, because on a SPECIFIC DAY he would be begotten by God,
2 Samuel 7: 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
Psalm 2: 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Mark 1: 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Acts 13: 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus AGAIN; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
1 John 3
7 Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, 8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.
10 In this manifest are the children of God
LU we are told that the Son of God would be begotten on a SPECIFIC DAY, we see in the passage that speaks of the Spirit descending on Jesus at the river, the OT prophecy about that day is quoted. We also see scripture describing what it means to be begotten by God, and how a child of God is manifested. The anointing of the Holy Spirit is receiving the seed of God.
We also are told exactly how it is we are to RECOGNIZE the Son of God, which is to that of a PERFECT MAN.
Ephesians 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,
We are also told that before the heavenly Father created the Universe He promised Eternal Life. Eternal life came to us through God’s Spirit making a PERFECT MAN. In Jesus is God’s WORD that was spoken in a promise, and then made flesh. This flesh, that was without sin, died on the cross, bringing the redemption and eternal life.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods? 35 if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,) 36 of him whom the Father did sanctify, and send to the world, do ye say — Thou speakest evil, because I said, Son of God I am? 37 if I do not the works of my Father, do not believe me; 38 and if I do, even if me ye may not believe, the works believe, that ye may know and may believe that in me [is] the Father, and I in Him.’
Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1Corinthians 11: 7 for a man, indeed, ought not to cover the head, being the image and glory of God, and a woman is the glory of a man,
2 Corinthians 4: 4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God.
We are told that the FULLNESS of Christ is that of a PERFECT MAN.
Luke 4: 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord…. 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
All reference to the Son being sent, is of the man begotten of the Holy Spirit at the river. Not a Son being sent to become a human.
JODI….PERFECT, you have brought out the whole truth, what the spirit of God has and is showing you, so speak and continue to pump out the waters of life, which is being given you, stand steadfast in these things and your reward shall be great. You are truly building with precious things on the foundation layed by the apostles and our lord Jesus Christ.
If only others here would come to understand these things, Especially LU and Mike and T8
Me and Nick, are in agreement with you JODI, i know Nick has some problems with the flesh body thing yet, but he will come to see it in time.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
- Hi everyone. God bless.
Have a few scripture for ya. With a follow up. Thanks.King James Version
16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
American Standard Version
16:28 I came out from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go unto the Father.Bible in Basic English
16:28 I came out from the Father and have come into the world: again, I go away from the world and go to the Father.Darby’s English Translation
16:28 I came out from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.Douay Rheims
16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.Noah Webster Bible
16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.Weymouth New Testament
16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world. Again I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.’World English Bible
16:28 I came out from the Father, and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.’Young’s Literal Translation
16:28 I came forth from the Father, and have come to the world; again I leave the world, and go on unto the Father.’ follow up:It contains two direct statements that tell us that it was the preexistent Jesus who created all things. “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” Notice that John is not content to say only that all things were made through Him, but John adds the fact that “without Him nothing was made.”
Paul confirms exactly what John wrote: “For by Him all things were created.” Paul goes on to make sure that we understand what he means by all things”that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16).
Since Jesus created all things, He could not have been one of the “created things.” Paul then adds, so there can be no mistake, “He is before all things, and in him all things hold together” (Colossians 1:17, NIV).
The context of this passage makes it clear that there are no exceptions; Christ is the Creator of all things including angels and everything visible or invisible. Nowhere is this made more clear that Christ is not a creature—angelic or otherwise—than in the relation of angels to Him. Since Christ could not be both the Creator of everything and at the same time a creature Himself, it is necessary to conclude that He is Himself the uncreated Creator of all creation” up“In view of the clear teaching that Christ is Creator and not a creature, the interpretations of phrases like Christ is ‘firstborn’ (Colossians 1:15) or ‘beginning of creation’ (Revelation 3:14) are wrong. Christ is ‘firstborn’ in the sense of being the unique (not created) Son of God. Christ is first over creation, not first in it”.
Micah 5:2 stated that the messianic King to come was “from everlasting.” Jesus had appeared in His divine life before His human birth as the priest-king Melchizedek (see Hebrews 7), “having neither beginning of days nor end of life”Micah 5:3.
Jesus was not created. He existed from eternity along with God the Father. Maybe the Son was birth of the Father somehow just a thought. One last scripture: John1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; [a]the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared.feed back please God bless in Him Anthony. Col:1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
Hi Anthony,
Jesus, as such, did not exist.
He was CONCEIVED in Mary of God and named Jesus later.
You need to discern the creative Holy Spirit of God that was made flesh in Jesus of Nazareth.
ps 104.30
You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the ground.
Scripture is spiritual and designed to confuse natural men.
1 Cor 2.22
For Indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block , and to Gentiles foolishness, but to you who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Look beyond the flesh of earth and see the works of God done in human vessels by His Spirit.
The Spirit of Christ is the power and wisdom of God.
2 Cor 5.16
Therefore from now on we recognise no one according to the flesh;even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him in this way no longer.
Hi Anthony,
Yes the Word came forth from the Father.
And Jesus became the Word at the Jordan.
Christ means the anointed one or anointed.
Flesh contributes nothing. The Spirit is all.
Seek ye first the kingdom of God, says the Spirit
Then let your mind be renewed by the Holy Spirit.
you said it perfectly here:
Jesus was not created. He existed from eternity along with God the Father. Maybe the Son was birth of the Father somehow just a thought.
I have believed for 26 years now that Jesus always existed from eternity along with God the Father, and that HE WAS birthed of the Father. I believe that God showed me when He was birthed (begotten)…day 1 of creation. He is the Light of the world!!
It’s about time you showed up in this thread, ha! Hopefully the Spirit will guide and use us in a synergistic way for His glory!! Thank you for your post, Andrew!
Many blessings,
LU
Hi LU,
Men are not from eternity.
They are conceived.
Mary was his true mother or are you suggesting she did not contribute to his being?
If he was not conceived of her was he not a son of Adam or a son of David according to the flesh?
Gene,
Thank you for clearing that bit up about God not having sex with Mary. Are you aware that spirits did (and probably still do) have sex with women and made nephilim? So, spirits can somehow have sex with humans but God clearly did not do that. I’m glad we agree there.
Also, the Father calls Jesus “LORD” as in YHWH. You ought to do a study on what it means to be the LORD as in YHWH. When you understand that, it will clear things up for you.
God bless,
LU
Hi Anthony,
I too used to believe that Jesus was a preexistent Son, a god among gods.
I was just like the pagans in Acts 14 who thought one of the gods had come to earth.
But the Spirit showed me that Jesus was truly a man conceived of Mary who was reborn from above.
We can follow him.
LU. ..God the father did not have physical sex with Mary in a physical sence, seening God is spirit, but he certainly did overshadowed her and cause a male DNA to be formed in her impregnating her. So he most certanily brought into existence at that time, the child Jesus, and this childs mother, who was Mary, this child never existed before his berth. He came into existence through the loins of king David, just as scripture says. He was a physical human being, who could not have been a God, why? Because scripture say “clearly”, “GOD IS NOT A MAN, THAT HE SHOULD LIE, NOR A SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD REPENT.
We surely know Jesus was indeed a “Man” right?, as scripture clearly says, ” we have “ONE GOD” and “ONE MEDERATOR”, between man and God, who?, THE “MAN” Jesus.
He is also called the second ADAM, Surely you understand that Adam was a created man right? So if he was a second ADAM, he must also been a Man, right?
Infact if you do not believe JESUS WAS A MAN, but a God, then why would “A GOD” need to be anointed by another God, and if you believe Jesus was a GOD ALREADY, why the anointing at the Jordan river by John the baptist? You do believe Jesus had to be anointed, don’t you?
Now if you do not believe Jesus had to be anointed by the spirit of the living God, then that makes you an ANTICHRIST (one who is againt the anointing) thats what a antichrist is, notice it does not say anti-Jesus, but antichrist (against him beeing anotied by GOD).
Where do you stand on this LU?
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Jodi,
I didn’t see your answer to these questions yet. Maybe I missed it. Could you copy and paste a short and direct answer of these questions if you already gave me your answer. If you didn’t yet give your answers to this, please do so.
I asked:
Who do we all belong to as a son/daughter before we become a son/daughter of God?
Also, please tell me if you understand that the term “firstborn” can apply to the only child in a family and it is not necessary for there to be other children.
Thanks!
Hi LU,
So if Mary is the mother of Jesus
and he was from the line of King David
then Jesus did not exist prior to his conception in her.
Hi everybody.I like to address the birth of the Lord Christ Jesus.
Mary a seragot mother.
There is one point that must be clearly understood about the conception of Christ. When the Father caused his conception to occur in the womb of Mary (John 1:14), 14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. It was not Mary’s physical ovum that was engendered that caused Christ to become flesh ” (else Christ would have inherited Adam’s “sin” as shown by the apostle Paul in Romans chapter five). Christ actually became the seed of Mary (the woman of prophecy) by the means of an heavenly-created ovum being placed in Mary’s womb which was then impregnated by the Spirit. Everything about Christ’s conception was spiritual and had nothing to do with the uniting of a human sperm with a human ovum. The ovum that was impregnated by the Spirit was not Mary’s ovum. Mary was actually a surrogate mother to Christ Jesus and it was not her ovum or Joseph’s sperm that created him. The fact that Christ was considered Joseph and Mary’s child (or being David’s progeny) was only a legal recognition by God.In deed, both the genealogical tables of Christ as given in the New Testament are those of Joseph, the husband of Mary. One should be careful on this matter because it is usually assumed (without the slightest proof) that Luke’s genealogy is that of Mary. In no way is this so. The New Testament states in no uncertain terms that both genealogies are those of Joseph and that is how they should be accepted. But how can this be? Can Joseph have had two fathers. Yes, indeed. Since the genealogy given by Matthew was only a legal genealogy in the first place (simply because Jechonias of verses 11 and 12
and Josiah begat Jeconiah and his brethren, at the Babylonian removal.
12 And after the Babylonian removal, Jeconiah begat Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel,
childless and was cursed from having any children to sit on the throne of David – see Jeremiah 22:24-
24 I live — an affirmation of Jehovah, Though Coniah son of Jehoiakim king of Judah Were a seal on My right hand, Surely thence I draw thee away,
25 And I have given thee into the hand of those seeking thy life, And into hands of which thou art afraid, Into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, And into the hand of the Chaldeans.
26 And I have cast thee, And thy mother who bore thee, unto another country, Where ye were not born, and there do ye die.
27 And to the land whither they are lifting up their soul to return, Thither they do not return.
28 A grief — a despised broken thing — is this man Coniah? A vessel in which there is no pleasure? Wherefore have they been cast up and down, He and his seed, Yea, they were cast on to a land that they knew not?
29 Earth, earth, earth, hear a word of Jehovah,
30 Thus said Jehovah: Write ye this man childless, A man — he doth not prosper in his days, For none of his seed doth prosper, Sitting on the throne of David, And ruling again in Judah! and Jeremiah 36:30), 30 `Therefore, thus said Jehovah, concerning Jehoiakim king of Judah: He hath none sitting on the throne of David, and his carcase is cast out to heat by day, and to cold by nightt. It can be seen that Matthew’s genealogy is maintained only by the rule of adoption—not by actual birth. The truth is, Salathiel of Matthew 1:12 And after the Babylonian removal, Jeconiah begat Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel, the adopted son of Jechonias. So likewise, Joseph must have been the adopted son of the Jacob mentioned in Matthew 1:16. and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ. genealogy is the actual physical descent of Joseph. In no way does Mary figure in either of the two genealogical lists. Mary is portrayed in the New Testament as having a Levitical blood line (even that from Aaron) because Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist (who was clearly a priest) was a kinsperson to Mary (Luke 1:36). In and lo, Elisabeth, thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month to her who was called barren. Spite of this Levitical connection, Christ and , Elisabeth, thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month to her who was called barren. Was reckoned legally to be from Judah (Hebrews 7:14) for [it is] evident that out of Judah hath arisen our Lord, in regard to which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. His legal father Joseph. Of course, all these matters are legal ones. Nonetheless, God looks on them as extremely important and they represent spiritual factors in the salvation plan of God and they cannot be taken lightly.
Let us now look once more at the conception of Christ that took place in Mary’s womb. When that conception occurred, he at that very moment began to bear the sins of the world for mankind as David’s typical “sinfullness” was attributed to him at his conception (Psalm 51:5). Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me Course, neither Christ nor David was actually a literal sinner (from having committed sins) david was in the grave. At the moment of conception. It has to be reckoned as being only for legal purposes that Christ was “made to be sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21) for all mankind at that early time and for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him. His life. The culmination of his role as our legal sin-bearer was performed when he died on the cross Adam’s offence resulted in the death of many. for all mankind at that early time and throughout his life. The culmination of his role as our legal sin-bearer was performed when he died on the cross. Thank you Lord. God bless. In Him Anthony
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