- This topic has 3,676 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi LU,
Yes entrance to the kingdom is specified by the Lord and the book of Acts gives us many examples of that in action.
Of course many thieves and robbers try to enter other ways and false prophets, teachers and christs are a dime a dozen.
Once you have entered the gifts are available to enable service and the roles are appointed and shown in 1 Cor 12.
Hi LU,
I made this as short as I could taking out many scriptures that I have for further proof.
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
1Corinthians 11: 7 for a man, indeed, ought not to cover the head, being the image and glory of God,
2 Corinthians 4: 4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God.
Ephesians 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ
Hebrews 5: 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous,
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.
10 In this manifest are the children of God
23 and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ,
seed –“of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated”
A MAN is begotten by God when he is given God’s seed (Holy Spirit), and he is kept in righteousness when that seed remains in him.
Jesus is the “only begotten Son”, BECAUSE at the river he was anointed with God’s Spirit and it was given without measure. This anointing kept Jesus righteous, it perfected him, and made him the ONLY LAMB.
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
Luke 4: 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Jesus BECAME the Son of God on a specific day, at the river. He was begotten by the Holy Spirit to do according to Luke 4, and then to be the LAMB.
Then AGAIN he was begotten by the Holy Spirit, being raised from the dead and becoming the firstbegotten, firstborn of heavenly men.
Acts 13: 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus AGAIN; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Hebrews 1: 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
The MAN was better than the messengers, Jesus THE CHRIST (anointed with the Spirit at the river).
This DAY I have begotten thee at the river! He was a Son according to the scriptures, by being a man without sin.
He then after he died was raised becoming the firstbegotten, being made an immortal man by the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Nick,
you said:
Jesus Christ is the HEAD of his body, the church.
In submitting to his headship we give up our own selfishness and independence.
Only the work he does through us has any relevance.
To you Jesus is just a man, now a saint in heaven. If he is just a man, he cannot be more than one place at a time. Why doesn’t the Father work through us directly if Jesus is just a man. Do you pray to saints, Nick. Is Jesus a pope to you?
Hi LU,
No you keep getting confused.
The man Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan.
From that moment God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.
When he died his human spirit returned to God as with every other man’s death.
But the Spirit abided and raised him from the grave into his battered body then later took him to heaven.
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and he too is fellowshiping with His Father and we too are invited to join this spiritual fellowship.
Jodi,
Your theology says that there was a time when Jesus was not yet the Son of God. Your theology says that there was a time when Jesus was not yet the Messiah.
I believe that there never was a time when Jesus was not the Son of God. I believe Jesus has been the Messiah since before the foundation of the world.
We see through different lenses, Jodi. Your lens doesn’t let you see that the Father identifies the Son as LORD ((as in Jehovah Lord), the One who laid the foundations of the earth. If the Father identifies His Son as LORD, the One who laid the foundations of the earth, then I believe the Father. I believe that the Son was LORD and existed as Son and LORD before the foundations of the earth were laid since they were laid by Him.
You spend so much effort verifying that the Son is a man. I believe that He, the LORD who laid the foundations of the earth, became a man. I don’t deny that He became a man but He was not always a man. He was the LORD Jehovah that laid the foundations of the earth, the only begotten God, the Son of God.
Heb 1:
8But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.9“YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”10And,
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”Jodi, spiritually speaking, if Jesus wasn’t always God’s son, who’s son was Jesus before he became God’s son?
LU….whose son was Adam after he was created, scripture says he was the son of GOD, NOW DO YOU WORSHIP HIM AS THE SON OF GOD, If not why not?, following your logic you should, right?
JODI is exactly right in what she has written. And as far a JESUS GOES, HE WAS SAID TO HAVE COME THROUGH THE LOINS OF DAVID, according to the apostle PAUL. WHY HAS NO DECIPLE of his ever called Jesus himself a GOD?. GOD WAS “IN” HIM BY THE ANOINTING SPIRIT GIVEN HIM AT THE JORDAN RIVER AND God the father was his physical father also by impregnated MARY who was a decendent of king David. This made Jesus the “ONLY HUMAN BEING BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE, BY GOD HIMSELF HAVING SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH A HUMAN WOMEN. BUT NONE OF THAT MADE JESUS A GOD OR A PREXISTING BEING OF ANY KIND. It made his actual Father God, just as ADAM’S actual Father was GOD ALSO. NONE OF THE MADE EITHER OF THEM A GOD OF ANY KIND, They were both flrsh and blood humans with human DNA. EXACTLY LIKE WE ARE. WHATS THE DEFERENCE IF GOD DID IT, IT DIDN’T CHANGE WHEN THEY CAME INTO EXISTENCE OR THE FACT THEY WERE HUMAN BEINGS.
NICK, Jodi is exactly right on this BROTHER, When Jesus was about to die he “commented” his spirit to GOD THE FATHER “FOR SAFE KEEPING”, not to be done away with, as you suppose happened, the spirit of God remained in him after death and resurected him back to life again, and gave him his spirit back also, so now he as we are, are alive with the spirit of the living God “in” him and us, and will be alive ever more, exactly like Jesus our lord (adoni), human ruling brother Jesus is. God the Father now abides in us forever and will “in” our regenerated souls to, which he considers a “TEMPLE” he can live “in” with us. We are not changed into the spirit beings, but GODS SPIRIT WILL STILL DWELL in our resurected souls, a resurected, (body and spirit) which makes us living souls again, we NOW HAVE AND will have God the Fathers spirit “in” us BECAUSE “forever”, IT WAS GIVEN TO US. Right?.
You seem to think our spirits will be done away with and “replaced”, with God’s spirit, if that were the case then we would become GOD’S Clones OURSELVES. BUT SCRIPTURE SHOWS THATS NOT THE CASE, it shows that our present complete soul (body and spirit) we have now is regenerated back to life , the only difference is that our bodies will be refashioned and eternalized by the Holy spirit and resurected, our DNA will be the same, only will be glorified by the working of the spirit of God. why would God the Father even want to take our bodies and spirits he gave us in the first place away?, that’s what gives us our own destinct character and personalities making us defferent from each other. No NICK, he (now) “indwells us, by his spiritual presents forever and guide us forever with his holy spirit. Yes he is already “in” us forever, right now. “Know you not that “NOW” we “ARE” the “SONS OF GOD”. right “NOW” brother, and “NOW”, we are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus our lord, “therefore he is not ashamed to call us brothers” .
Know you not that “YOUR BODY” IS (NOW Nick) THE “TEMPLE” OF THE LIVING GOD. Jodi is right in what she said brother, IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene,
To support your idea that flesh becomes immortal you imagine that God puts the human spirit back into the sons of God.
No the new creation is not involving earthly flesh but our souls with renewed minds are given new spiritual bodies.
Just as Jesus did not become a clone of God neither will the sons that follow him, but they will know unity.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
Hi Gene,
Have you not yet understood that the anointed men of old died.
Yet they live by the faithful anointing that never left them.
The Spirit of eternal life raised Jesus and will raise his brothers.
jn 7.37
“..If anyone is thirsty let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me as the scriptures say
’From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water”
But this he spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive;
for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified”
Eccl 12.6
” Remember him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel of the cistern is crushed, then the dust will return to earth as it was and the spirit will return to God Who gave it.
Gene,
you said:
LU….whose son was Adam after he was created, scripture says he was the son of GOD, NOW DO YOU WORSHIP HIM AS THE SON OF GOD, If not why not?, following your logic you should, right?
Wrong Gene, I worship the only begotten Son of God who always existed and is Jehovah our Righteousness. Adam was not the only begotten, he was the first created…big difference! I would never worship the creature. I only worship Jehovah who is both God of gods and Lord of lords.
G-WHY HAS NO DECIPLE of his ever called Jesus himself a GOD?
They have. They have also called him LORD.
G-This made Jesus the “ONLY HUMAN BEING BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE, BY GOD HIMSELF HAVING SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH A HUMAN WOMEN. BUT NONE OF THAT MADE JESUS A GOD OR A PREXISTING BEING OF ANY KIND.
Gene, you believe that God had sex with Mary? Seriously? Do you think Nick and Jodi believe this also? WOW
Nick,
you said:
But the Spirit abided and raised him from the grave into his battered body then later took him to heaven.
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and he too is fellowshiping with His Father and we too are invited to join this spiritual fellowship.
Who was the Spirit before Jesus became the Spirit, Nick?
Hi LU,
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
1jn 1
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of life-and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
John shows that he was speaking of the Spirit of Christ that manifested in the man Jesus from the Jordan anointing. The Father and the Son fellowship in the one Spirit and we are invited to leave earthly flesh behind, as Jesus did, and share in that eternal spiritual fellowship.
LU….YOU MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS SAYING, NO GOD THE FATHER DID NOT HAVE “PHYSICAL” SEX WITH MARY AS A HUMAN BEING WOULD TO CREATE A BABY, BUT HE CERTAINLY DID “OVERSHADOW” MARY, SUPPLYING THE DNA SPERM THAT MADE THE CHILD JESUS. JUST AS HE ALSO SUPPLIED THE DNA THAT MADE THE MAN ADAM, AND EVE ALSO. HOW COULD GOD HAVE PHISICAL SEX, HE IS SPIRIT, NOT FLESH AND BLOOD. ARE WE NOT TO WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH?
GOD THE FATHER DID NOT “MORPH” THE MAN JESUS INTO MARY FROM ANOTHER EXISTENCE AS YOU FALSELY BELIEVE. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN COULD NOT SAY OVER AND OVER HE WAS A “SON OF MAN”, YOU REALLY NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MEANS. BECAUS YOU GO COMPLETELY AGAINST HIS WORDS, SAYING HE WAS A GOD, “for God is “Not” a man that he should lie nor a “SON OF MAN” that he should repent”. Seems you have a delima because jesus certanily sai he was a “Son of man” over and over. You beliefe does not allow for that right?
As far as lord (adoni) a human ruler, and LORD (adonia) ALMIGHTY YAHWEH OUR GOD goes, you must have never “really” searched out the difference have you? It easely proven . And when you come to understand that then you will understand this scripture clearly. “The LORD (ADONIA) said unto my lord (adoni) human ruler, sit on my side “UNTIL” (I) ADONIA ALMIGHTY GOD, make your enimies, your footstool.
Please do a study and check this all out LU
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
LU I would like to go through the entire chapter of Hebrews 1 with you and break it down.
It seems impossible to create a short post to you, because you have interpreted several scriptures incorrectly.
Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
First we see from this passage itself the person who SPOKE to the prophets is clearly NOT the Son, but is the Father. In the PAST it was the Father who spoke, and in the last days it is THEN by his Son. The Son did not previously speak as the word of God, this is EXACTLY what this passage confirms. This aligns exactly with what we are told from other scriptures.
2 Peter 1: 20 this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition, 21 for not by will of man did ever prophecy come, but by the Holy Spirit born on holy men of God spake.
Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
The Holy Spirit COMES FROM the heavenly Father, and it was given to the prophets so that they could speak the Father’s words.
John 14: 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 14: 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 10:29 my Father, who hath given to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of the hand of my Father; 30 I and the Father are one.’ 31 Therefore, again, did the Jews take up stones that they may stone him; 32 Jesus answered them,
Many good works did I shew you from my Father</strong>; because of which work of them do ye stone me?' 33 The Jews answered him, saying,For a good work we do not stone thee, but for evil speaking, and because thou, being a man, dost make thyself God.’ 34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods? 35 if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,) 36 of him whom the Father did sanctify, and send to the world, do ye say — Thou speakest evil, because I said, Son of God I am? 37 if I do not the works of my Father, do not believe me; 38 and if I do, even if me ye may not believe, the works believe, that ye may know and may believe that in me [is] the Father, and I in Him.’Romans 15: 16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Paul’s words come by the power of the Spirit of the Father, this is also true for Jesus. Jesus did not speak to the prophets the Father did by His Spirit, and we are told specifically in Hebrews that the Son did NOT speak until LATER. So your whole theology that a pre-existing Son spoke to the prophets is destroyed. This is because you DENY that the Son of God was a promise to come of the seed of David and was BEGOTTEN on a SPECIFIC DAY on EARTH.
Those who the heavenly Father sanctified with His Holy Spirit to speak His words, He called them gods. This is important to keep this FACT in mind when you read Hebrews 1:9!!
Those who speak the Father’s words are one with the Father, as the Father is in them through His Spirit.
We see in the scripture below that the gift of the Spirit is described as God’s seed, and that is what it means to be begotten by God, and thus to be a child of God. Jesus was the only child that was given the seed WITHOUT LIMIT, this caused him to be the lamb without blemish or spot.
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. According to Luke 4, Jesus was SENT after his baptism.
1 John 3
7 Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, 8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.
10 In this manifest are the children of God
23 and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and may love one another, even as He did give command to us.
seed –“of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated”
You are begotten by God when you have God’s seed (Holy Spirit), and are kept in righteousness when that seed remains in you. The context of the above passage relates to man.
LU we are DIRECTLY told how a Son of God is manifested, how a Son is begotten. This is what made Jesus THE CHRIST, the anointed with the Spirit. We are told from scripture that this begetting happened on a CERTAIN DAY, and we are told that it happened again, as the Son was begotten by the Spirit twice, first at the river Jordan, and then when Jesus was raised from the dead.
Acts 13: 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus AGAIN; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
In the PAST the ancestors and prophets received from our heavenly Father the Holy Spirit so that they could deliver the message from our heavenly Father. In the last days the promise was brought forth and the man Jesus was given the Holy Spirit so he too would speak the words of our heavenly Father.
Second, we should establish what it was that the heavenly Father spoke to the prophets about through His Holy Spirit.
2 Samuel 7: 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Acts 3: 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Psalms 89:
21 My hand will sustain him; surely my arm will strengthen him.
22 The enemy will not get the better of him; the wicked will not oppress him.
23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down his adversaries.
24 My faithful love will be with him, and through my name his horn will be exalted.
25 I will set his hand over the sea, his right hand over the rivers.
26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’
27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever, and my covenant with him will never fail.
29 I will establish his line forever, his throne as long as the heavens endure.
Isaiah 62:
8 The LORD has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm: “Never again will I give your grain as food for your enemies, and never again will foreigners drink the new wine for which you have toiled;
9 but those who harvest it will eat it and praise the LORD, and those who gather the grapes will drink it in the courts of my sanctuary.”
10 Pass through, pass through the gates! Prepare the way for the people. Build up, build up the highway! Remove the stones. Raise a banner for the nations.
11 The LORD has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: “Say to Daughter Zion, ‘See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.’ ”
12 They will be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD; and you will be called Sought After, the City No Longer Deserted.
This is speaking of the reward of the MAN Jesus, his reward of eternal life, and his work accompanies him, as it gives to others that which he also received, eternal life.
Titus 1: 1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; 4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Acts 13: 23 “From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.
The heavenly Father promised before the WORLD BEGAN Eternal Life. The word that existed in the beginning with the Father we are told from Titus was Eternal Life, and He would not have made the world if He could not bring eternal life to humans.
The word/promise of Eternal Life is the Father Himself as it comes from His Spirit and He Himself is Life. This Spirit of the Father is what raised Jesus from the dead. This Spirit from the Father is what will raise others from the dead to Eternal Life, but they have to believe correctly in the Son of God and the One True God the Father.
We are to believe that it was according to our heavenly Father’s promise that of the seed of David He raised up to Israel a savior. So the word that was in the beginning with God and was God, is eternal life. The promise as to how our Heavenly Father would fulfill the promise of Eternal Life would come through the man of the seed of David of whom our heavenly Father would anoint with His Spirit without limit. This is why John tells us that the word of the Father became flesh, as Jesus is the way that the Heavenly Father brings us to Eternal Life.
Not only is Jesus from the time he was born the fulfilled word of the prophets that came from the Father, but he himself spoke the words of the Father, and he himself discussed the words of the prophets that they had spoken about him.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted*, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord… 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Jesus was begotten by the Father’s seed at the river, the Holy Spirit sanctified him, making him a Son, and then he was sent out into the world. To believe in the Father’s words, to believe in His promise that existed before He created the universe, is to believe that of the seed of David, the Heavenly Father, our One True God, gave the seed of David His own seed without measure, so that our Heavenly Father through Jesus could bring eternal life unto man. This is what the prophets spoke, and Jesus fulfilled, bringing the WORD of God to life in the flesh.
Jesus became the word of God fulfilled, and then he Himself was sent to speak the word of God.
The idea that Jesus pre-existed as the word of God, is pure theology produced by pagans who loved Greek philosophy and were trying to align Jesus with those philosophies. LU you need to be firm in the Father and His promise that He would SEND a savior from among the people. No scripture says that He would send a god son to become a human.
There is no scripture that tells us a pre-existing son NEEDED to become a man in order for redemption to occur, on the contrary, scripture tells us that what was needed to COME to the people was an anointed MAN with God’s Holy Spirit.
It was a MAN who shed his blood that brings eternal life, not a god son brings eternal life. According to scripture BEFORE the Father made the universe He promised eternal life. So a god son is absolutely pointless, it only distracts from the TRUTH of our redemption.
Jodi,
You may have missed this question that I asked you recently:
Jodi, spiritually speaking, if Jesus wasn’t always God’s son, who’s son was Jesus before he became God’s son? Please answer this before we move on.
Also, please tell me if you understand that the term “firstborn” can apply to the only child in a family and it is not necessary for there to be other children.
Thanks!
Nick,
If you think the Spirit of Christ was manifested in Jesus at the Jordan. What do you call the spirit of Jesus that Jesus had before that?
Hi LU,
Jesus, the son of Adam, was like us in every way, body soul and spirit.
When he was baptised in the Spirit at the Jordan then his human spirit existed with the Holy Spirit as with us.
Rom 8.16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with him, so that we may also be glorified with him.
At death the spirits of men return to the Father of spirits.
Ecc 12.7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God Who gave it.
Sure enough on Calvary the human spirit of Jesus left him.
Jn 19.30
Therefore When Jesus had received the sour wine he said’ It is finished’
And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
But, yet alive in the faithful Holy Spirit, he visited the spirits in prison.
1 peter 3.18
Nick,
How do you think his human spirit was different than the spirit of Christ? Do you believe that the pre-Jordan Jesus didn’t know that God was his father?
Hi LU,
The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of anointing-the Spirit of eternal life.
The spirit of the man Jesus is just like our spirit-given to us on loan for 2 or 3 score years or so.
We must all find the waters that well up to eternal life before the access by the bucket at the well is finished.
ECC 12.6 f
It would seem that by the age of 12 he knew God was his Father.
But as a devotee of the Word he may have realised from Deut 14.1 that all Israel were the sons of God.
Hi Lu,
You asked,
“Jodi, spiritually speaking, if Jesus wasn’t always God’s son, who’s son was Jesus before he became God’s son? Please answer this before we move on.”
I do not understand your question, maybe you can rephrase it?
Sounds like you are asking who Jesus’s son was, which I am not aware in scripture that he was a father ? It might be helpful to refer to a scripture that you are trying to clarify. You did give Hebrews starting in verse 8, so let me show you something about those verses. Of course we are skipping some of the verses I wanted to speak about beforehand but that’s okay.
One thing you need to realize is that Paul is quoting much from King David the prophet in several verses in this chapter, and that verses 10 through 12 Paul is quoting David who was talking about the Father, not the Son. If you do NOT believe that Jesus was perfected and changed from mortal to immortal, then you certainly are speaking antichrist. If you do not believe that the FLESH of Jesus did NOT see corruption, you are speaking antichrist. The Father has never changed, but we have direct scripture that tells us that Jesus did.
Hebrews 1:8 but of the Son [he saith,] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Paul is quoting from King David,
Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, <u>thy God</u>, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
God’s children are those anointed with God’s Spirit.
1 John 3:9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. 10 In this manifest are the children of God
Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.
Once again Paul is quoting from King David,
Psalms 24 I say, “O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days, Your years are throughout all generations. 25 “Of old You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 26 “Even they will perish, but You endure; And all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them and they will be changed. 27 “But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end. 28 “The children of Your servants will continue, And their descendants will be established before You.”
David quotes God and Paul quoted David, ‘therefore God, THY GOD hath anointed thee above thy fellows,’ then Paul quotes David again who is speaking OF the God who anoints, and says about Him that the heavens are the work of Your hands, they will perish but You endure forever, like clothing you will CHANGE them, the descendants of Your servants will be established before You.
David was a SERVANT of God and it was his descendant that was established by God. Jesus died, he was raised from the dead and CHANGED into an immortal human being.
1 Corinthians 15
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Jesus was in fact of the seed of David, he was mortal and he WAS CHANGED into an immortal human.
Do we believe that the Father does not change and that He is life, and that He brought us eternal life, as was promised by Him before He made the Universe? The Son of God below in John 5 is identified as the Son of man.
John 5
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
The Father gave eternal life to the Son of man making him the heavenly man, it is because Jesus is the heavenly Son of man God gave him authority to execute judgment.
Hebrews 1: 13 But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?
Him who sits at God’s right hand is the man that was CHANGED from mortal to immortal.
Matthew 26: 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Acts 2: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
RECALL that before our heavenly Father made the universe He had PROMISED eternal life, and this LIFE He gave to the man Jesus.
Acts 7: 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Hebrews 10: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Galatians 6: 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Luke 24: 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Ephesians 5: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Jesus is STILL a MAN, and he has incorruptible flesh.
Hi Jodi,
Good work.
But you seem to suggest that the new heavenly body is still flesh and that flesh can inherit the kingdom.
We Do know that Jesus was raised in his flesh and bone body(bloodless)
That was to fulfil the sign of Jonah.
Now the Lord is the Spirit and he has a glorious new body that ours will be alike to
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
