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Hi LU,
The body of Christ includes all who have been reborn into him of water, in his name, and the Spirit.
The head is the Master of the Body and being ‘ beheaded’ that he might rule in us is essential.
We depend on him for guidance and leadership and he needs us to do his work here too.
His work is serving his Father and his God, but you do not believe this simple fact?
Hi Jodi,
If you have received the Spirit of Life (ZOE)and walk in that Spirit and the Spirit controls you, you have eternal life(ZOE)
Eternal life (ZOE)does not begin after death but begins now when God shares His life(ZOE)with us.
You have passed over from death to life (ZOE)and even if you die, you live.
O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?
All the anointed of God only sleep in death.
Just like Jesus Christ did.
Hi Nick,
When people are resurrected they will be changed, as Jesus likewise was changed when he rose from the dead.
The body was sown in weakness and it is raised in power.
The temptations that existed before are no longer there. The enmity that came from the carnal mind no longer exists.
Jesus was perfected through his suffering, he had a carnal mind and he overcame it through the Father’s Spirit. He had to fight that carnal mind and the human will, he had to deny it and follow God’s will. When he knew the time had come for his crucifixion, this was an ultimate test of faith. Here you had a man with all powers of the Spirit, where he was able to control wind, heal, even raise the dead. He could have used that power for himself. He went to that cross with fear and he made it through by his unrelenting FAITH!!
Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Jesus completed the ultimate act of faith. His body was weak, it did indeed tempt him, as he was tempted like we are all tempted, but he overcame through his knowledge and belief in God. Death is the last enemy to be destroyed, death is an enemy because it makes our flesh weak. A mind that has faith in God combined with an immortal body is a heavenly man. Those who die in this faith, faith that is built on believing in the Father and His Son, sleep in freedom and light until they are raised with the crown of life. Those who do not have this faith sleep in chains and darkness until they are raised to judgment.
LU….Isa 42:1 …”behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delights; I have put my spirit upon him; he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. Also read verses 2-4
NOW THIS VERSE 5,..Thus says “GOD” THE (LORD), he that created the heavens, and streched them out; he that spread forth the earth and that which comes out of it; he that gives breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein; 6…I the LORD have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand and keep you, and give you for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7.. To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prision, and them that sat in darkness out of the prison house.
Now COMPREHIND THIS, Isa 42:8…”I am the LORD: that is “MY” NAME: and “MY GLORY” WILL I “NOT GIVE” TO ANOTHER, neither “MY PTAISE to graven “IMAGES”.
HAVE YOU CREATED ANOTHER “IMAGE” OF THE LORD OUR GOD, by trying to make Jesus the Christ into OUR LORD GOD? GOD THE FATHER SAYS HE WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER, AND HIS GLORY IS THE CREATION OF THE EARTH AND ALL THAT IS IN IT, But you take away his glory and give it to a Man, Jesus who GOD thr FATHER CALLS, HIS SERVANT, according to these scriptures, i have posted for you.
LU, HOW DO YOU IN YOUR MIND, get around all these scriptures , do you simply deny they exist, as other tritarians do?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
LU,
From the World Encyclopedia,
Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 – 215) (Titus Flavius Clemens) was an early Christian philosopher and one of the most distinguished teachers of the Church of Alexandria. He is known for his attempt to unite Greek philosophy with Christian teachings and drew a large number of educated pagans to the Church. His passion for philosophy, especially for the teachings of Plato, contributed to the “hellenization” of Christianity.
One of his most well-known pupils was Origen
From Religion Facts,
Clement of Alexandria was one of the major Greek-speaking thinkers of the early church. He came from a pagan background at Athens and his Christian theology was strongly influenced by Greek philosophy.
LU using outside biblical writings, of people defining Christ through Greek philosophy, will only give you an antichrist.
These were NOT men of God, these are the exact FALSE TEACHER Paul warned people about.
Your beliefs in Christ are unfortunately nothing but pagan ideas.
It is time for you to come out from them!!
Hi Jodi,
You know that scripture uses the word SIN in two different ways.
There is the SIN that we commit that needs to be washed away and forgiven.
But there is the SIN THAT LIVES IN US that Paul spoke of in Rom 7.17
The SIN that he wanted to be freed from by dying.Rom 7 24
The SIN that got it’s power from the law. Rom 7.8
The SIN IN THE FLESH that was condemned by God.
Rom 8.2
For the Law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of sin and death. For what the Law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
Rom 6.7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
This does not mean that all men are forgiven at death but that our fleshly bodies need to be exchanged for new heavenly bodies to stop temptation from sin in the flesh. With our minds transformed by renewal by the Spirit our souls can enjoy freedom for eternity.
Hi Jodi,
The carnal mind is not the enemy but the stolen territory of a man.
Rom 12.2
And be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.
Until we let the light of the Spirit rule our minds we cannot discern the ways of God for us. We must open the door and submit our minds to Christ.
2 Cor 10.5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
Starting again and letting go of our preconceptions, dogmas and vain ideas that made us our own gods. The Spirit is the only teacher so any other man’s ideas must become as rubbish.
Hi Nick,
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
the last enemy to be destroyed is death, what brings us to death is our carnal minds, so our carnal mind is certainly our enemy.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
fleshly here is the same word as carnal
To be carnally minded means that your thoughts are on serving your flesh and it’s desires and not serving God. The carnal mind means you are trusting your own imagination and vein ideas instead of truth from God. The carnal mind is ignorant, unwise. Without God’s knowledge it bears bad fruit.
2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
Evil wisdom comes from within us, it is fleshly wisdom.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The flesh is opposite in nature from the spirit. One is ignorant and misses God’s mark, one is full of knowledge and is God’s mark.
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
creature– creation i.e. thing created
of individual things, beings, a creature, a creationsubject– to arrange under
vainity-
- what is devoid of truth and appropriateness
Nick we were created ignorant and unwise, not willingly, but because this was necessary to build hope. This was necessary because God did not want us to be His robots or His puppets, He wanted us to grow in grace and knowledge, and Honor Him for the work that He has put into us with the final results of perfection.
This is why we are called beasts, dogs, serpents, etc.. because we act like ignorant creatures who only follow carnal nature.
Adam and Eve were ignorant creatures of carnal minds. When you are ignorant and use your own imagination to establish beliefs all you create are LIES and SLANDER against God. When you follow your carnal mind you are the devil. This is exactly what Cain did. Cain was carnal and thus sold under sin, and God warned him not to serve this devil. But he did and he served himself, he murdered, he lied to God. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit,the works of the flesh, wrath, Envyings, murders.
Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
To be carnally minded is death, it was carnal mindedness that death came into the world by one human being.
The weak carnal mind was then given death, making the carnal mind subjected not only to his ignorance and his own imagination but also to WEAK flesh.
Think on Romans 8:20 reading the below passage,
1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
To be made a living soul meant that you were created in weakness and it was so that you could learn the knowledge and power of God. If you had it to begin with you would think it came from yourself, what good would that have done!!
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
One man in ignorance following the carnal mind brought death.
One man filled with the knowledge and Spirit of God, able to deny the carnal mind brought life.
Nick,
you said:
The body of Christ includes all who have been reborn into him of water, in his name, and the Spirit.
The head is the Master of the Body and being ‘ beheaded’ that he might rule in us is essential.
We depend on him for guidance and leadership and he needs us to do his work here too.
His work is serving his Father and his God, but you do not believe this simple fact?
The rebirth does not happen when one is put in water for baptism. The rebirth happens when the person believes in a way where he/she could boldly declare this truth as their belief:
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The one who is afraid to declare this to others, whether it be mother and father, other family members, friends, co-workers, etc. is not yet born again. It needs to be confessed “in the light” and a baptismal service where one is immersed in water provides that opportunity to declare this truth in front of others.
You would have to believe that Jesus is God’s only begotten Son in the purest and highest sense. Do you believe that, Nick?
Hi LU,
Rebirth from above is not according to the will of man but of God.
Sinners like us need to repent and be washed first.
Nick,
This passage does not mention repentence and water baptism as needed first.
Romans 10: 1Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”
14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
18But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
“THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,
AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.”19But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,
“I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION,
BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU.”20And Isaiah is very bold and says,
“I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME,
I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.”21But as for Israel He says, “ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”
Joel 2:32 31“The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. 32“And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Will be delivered; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape, As the LORD has said, Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.
One needs to confess Jesus as Jehovah Lord, who is Lord of all. The hearing of the Word of God brings faith, faith leads to confessing with your mouth that Jesus Christ is LORD as in Jehovah, Lord of all.
Hi LU,
The book of Romans was not written to the unsaved telling them another alternative way of salvation that bypasses the command to be reborn of water and the Spirit.
Read Romans 1.7
‘ To all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints.’
This was written to the obedient.
It was sent primarily to the new Jewish converts there appealing to them to put their faith in action and fully commit to the way of Jesus.
Hi Jodi,
The whole of creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
This creation had been unwillingly subjected to futility and was a slave to corruption.
Only those who were born of the Spirit, walked in the Spirit and followed the Spirit are overcomers.
They had to grasp for grace every step of the way. They needed the light of the Spirit and the gift of tongues.
The way is narrow, few could find it. They walked while the light was with them, fed on spiritual food
They sought the witnesses they found that God demanded and let the Spirit produce the fruit
Death freed them from the confusion and goading of inward demonic influences.
The philosophers and theologians still argue and postulate outside the Door
Hi Gene,
Isaiah 42:8I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
Jeremiah 23:6 6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.
Jehovah is the God of gods (Father) and the Lord of lords (Son), Gene.
Can you call Jesus, the Lord of lords, “Jehovah our righteousness”, Gene.
Nick,
you said (numbers added):
1.The body of Christ includes all who have been reborn into him of water, in his name, and the Spirit.
2.The head is the Master of the Body and being ‘ beheaded’ that he might rule in us is essential.
3.We depend on him for guidance and leadership and he needs us to do his work here too.
4.His work is serving his Father and his God, but you do not believe this simple fact?
1. Where does the scripture say “reborn into him of water”?
2. Where does the scripture say the head of the body is beheaded? Adding to scripture here, Nick?
3. Did Jesus depend on man for guidance and leadership, Nick? Why do you?
4. I do. Why would you say that. Jesus serves as a Son, not as a creation, like Moses.
Jodi,
I’m not depending on the writings of the early Greek church fathers for my understanding. I found my understanding in scripture.
Hi LU,
You misunderstand.
Jesus Christ is the HEAD of his body, the church.
In submitting to his headship we give up our own selfishness and independence.
Only the work he does through us has any relevance.
Rev 20.4
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