- This topic has 3,676 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Ed J and ALL,
Matthew gives the ancestry of Jesus going from Abraham to Joseph.
That’s RIGHT, JESUS being of the blood of Joseph all the way back to Abraham!!
Jesus had the DNA of Joseph that is precisely what Matthew tells us.
Hi Jodi,
Do you deny Jesus virgin birth?
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Gene,
Anyone who goes too far and does not remain within the teaching does not have God.2jn 9
The Spirit does not teach from outside of scripture so show us that the Spirit taught you Satan is only a metaphor.
Nick…show us where a satan being could have taken Jesus to a high mountainm and showed him “all” the kingdoms of world. Does such a mountain exist. If we follow your literial belief in a Satan being, then PETER WAS HIM, ACCORDING TO JESUS ANYWAY, did not Jesus call Peter Satan?
Seems you have another delima, but i am sure you can wiggle your way around it, right?
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Ed J,
The Holy Spirit came upon Mary before her and Joseph were together, Mary was found to be with child through an act of God.
The virgin birth is spoken of in the OT, ALSO spoken in the OT is that Jesus would be of the seed of David.
Why would God want to cause a virgin to be pregnant other than to make it clear that God has indeed brought forth the Messiah? In Isaiah 7 the prophet specifically says the virgin will give birth as a SIGN, and the boy will grow rejecting the wrong and choosing the right.
What OT prophecy never says is that this son is born being part god or existed in another form eternally. From ancient times it was spoken that this Messiah would come out of the tribe of Judah, out of a clan of Judah he would come forth. The origins of the Messiah came from back in Genesis through the blood of Jacob and Leah, and was in the plan of the eternal God before the world was made.
Prophecies and promises were given so that when they occurred they could be recognized as the fulfillment of God’s hand letting us know He is truth, and that which He speaks becomes fulfilled.
Matthew writes the fulfillment of Isaiah, the word that a virgin would give birth to a son as a sign to the people. Matthew fulfills the word that of the seed of David the Messiah would come, and his blood is traced from Joseph to David to Abraham.
Ed J, the glory of Jesus the Christ, the glory of our Almighty Creator, is that our Creator was able to perfect a man through the works of His Spirit. A perfect man is worthy of eternal life, which was the purpose of God making the world and humans from the beginning.
The glory of Jesus is that he was fully a human being with weak flesh, tempted as we are tempted but he remained without sin because God’s Spirit was working in him. The glory of God is in the works of His Spirit perfecting a man. This is the definition of the CHRIST- a man anointed with God’s Spirit, being BORN of God, remaining righteous even after the temptation aroused by the fear of death was handed to him being brought forth to be mocked, beaten, and crucified. He was a MAN a HUMAN in every way and demonstrated his perfect FAITH in God when he was nailed to the cross.
But men have changed this great glory that is of the Son and of the Father, changing that which was weak flesh made perfect into a pre-existing eternal son. Destroying our true human example, our true mediator, denying that the knowledge of the Son is to be strictly held in the belief that CHRIST was MADE through God’s Spirit, and is DEFINED as a PERFECT MAN.
“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:”
We do not currently have unity in the identity of Jesus, as some want to deny the clear words of Paul.
We do not have unity because people claim that an eternal son was sent to be our savior, instead of God making a savior from among the people through anointing a man with His Spirit.
We do not have unity because people claim that an eternal son was born of God and was a firstborn before the world was made, instead of God electing a man to be born of His Spirit and being MADE into a firstborn Son as the OT tells us would happen. They change the glory of Jesus raised from the dead as the first human to have eternal life, into a being who already existed with eternal life.
Hi Gene,
I have no dilemma arising from the word of God.
If scripture says things my mind cannot yet grasp then my mind needs to be enlarged.
You have no dilemma either because you have rejected what you cannot grasp from the words of the Spirit in scripture.
You have made scripture to be a lie.
Hi Gene,
You doubt that Satan tempted Jesus because you do not know of any mountain he could have taken him to?
So you would deny the words of the Spirit for the sake of your understanding?
Is your faith not dependant on what scripture teaches at all?
Hi Jodi,
“Jesus had the DNA of Joseph that is precisely what Matthew tells us.”
That is precisely not what the author of Matthew tells us for if Jesus were Josephs biological child-from his own loins so to speak,then why did he contemplate “putting her away privately”? An angel had to come to him in a dream and tell him that the child conceived is from the Holy Ghost. And the genealogy should read And Joseph begat Jesus just as Jacob begat Joseph. So it very much seems you are saying the virgin birth is a pagan fable although you deny this in response to Ed. There’s many in your camp -unitarians-who have denied the virgin birth to fit their theology-there’s nothing new in that.
But what is the reason for the virgin birth story if not to make him more of a god man? It’s not in Marks version where his mother and family think he’s lost his mind after he begins his ministry. I doubt she forgot her son was fathered by God himself.
And Isaiah 7 has nothing to do with a messiah or Jesus and Isaiah himself is the father of the child he prophesies about. I’m surprised you didn’t try to use the Luke version like most do to say he was from David through Mary which it clearly does not say either.
The Spirit does not teach from outside of scripture so show us that the Spirit taught you Satan is only a metaphor.
Maybe you will come around to his view like before?
Hi T8,
You wear your unteachability so proudly as if it is a virtue.
But you should not be so fearful of change.
Tradition is death.
Ed J,
The Holy Spirit came upon Mary before her and Joseph were together, Mary was found to be with child through an act of God.
The virgin birth is spoken of in the OT, ALSO spoken in the OT is that Jesus would be of the seed of David.
Why would God want to cause a virgin to be pregnant other than to make it clear that God has indeed brought forth the Messiah? In Isaiah 7 the prophet specifically says the virgin will give birth as a SIGN, and the boy will grow rejecting the wrong and choosing the right.
Hi Jodi,
Yes I know you want to go on about all the ideas you hold dear to. But
what you say here, is in stark contradiction of what you said before…
(Virgin birth by definition means: NO dna from Mary’s espoused husband)Hi Ed J and ALL,
Matthew gives the ancestry of Jesus going from Abraham to Joseph.
That’s RIGHT, JESUS being of the blood of Joseph all the way back to Abraham!!
Jesus had the DNA of Joseph that is precisely what Matthew tells us.
____________
God bless
Ed JI’m surprised you didn’t try to use the Luke version like most do to say he was from David through Mary which it clearly does not say either.
Hi Andrew,
BUT Luke does indeed say that:
(he was from David through Mary)
if Joseph is Mary’s mother’s name,
Or if Heli was Mary’s mother’s name.______________
God bless
Ed JNick. You resisted Gene for years but came around to his view. So on the outset, it is a good bet it could happen again right?
Of course I do not hold Gene’s view myself. But it is possible you could change your mind. Never say never. Happened before.
Hello Ed,
Lk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli
The term (as was supposed),the son of Joseph makes clear that Luke’s lineage of Jesus is also through Joseph just as Matthew’s version. There’s nothing there to suggest that Joseph is the father of Mary or this is Mary’s lineage. It was supposed that Joseph was the father of Jesus.
Hi T8,
So you are saying you can only find the truth in yourself and we should ignore what others say?
That does make sense for you, as your traditional roots are exposed.
Ya’ll get that the geneology in Matthew is for a different person than the geneology of Luke, right? David had several sons. Solomon is in the Matthew geneology, Nathan is in the Luke geneology. The two geneologies are not for the same person.
Matt 1:6
Eli was the father of Mary and the father-in-law to Joseph. Both Mary and her husband Joseph came from David but from different son’s of David as we can see in the two genealogies.
Hello Ed,
Lk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli
The term (as was supposed),the son of Joseph makes clear that Luke’s lineage of Jesus is also through Joseph just as Matthew’s version. There’s nothing there to suggest that Joseph is the father of Mary or this is Mary’s lineage. It was supposed that Joseph was the father of Jesus.
Hi Andrew,
Are you claiming the bible is in error since the lineages are different?
____________
God bless
Ed JAndrewAD,
First and foremost the PROPHECIES in the OT state that the coming Messiah would be a MAN of the seed of David of the root of Jesse, that God would begat this MAN, and would MAKE this MAN his firstborn, and that a savior would come FROM among the clan of Judah.
2 Samuel 7: 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
Luke 1: 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, OF THE HOUSE OF David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Do you see Andrew how well the OT connects to the NT?
Joseph is of the HOUSE of David you think that statement serves no purpose? Notice the child born of Mary SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest and God will give him the throne of his father David, are these words also spoken in vain? I am suppose to believe that what truly matters is that I believe not in fulfilled prophecy but that Jesus came into the world from Mary as being a non human eternal son already?
Don’t you realize that so many scriptures both OT and NT would be written completely different if what you are trying to teach were true?
He SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest because he will on a certain DAY be BORN of God, and whoever is BORN of God cannot sin. Isaiah tells us specifically that of the stem of Jesse God will place his Spirit to rest upon and cause a man to be be full of knowledge, to walk in God’s ways and be righteous.
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
BY the MAN of the seed of David that was BORN of God’s Spirit being able to remain without sin, we are to BELIEVE in GOD. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world, that ALL things were made through him and for him, the ONE that SHED his blood and would be raised from the dead and be the first among many heavenly men.
There was NO glory that existed before, other than what was held in a plan, the man born of God’s Spirit was GIVEN GLORY of eternal life because he was a man just like us tempted as we are tempted but he remained without sin. He received GLORY because he fully committed his will to that of God’s will having perfect faith.
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Andrew you want to preach that the glory of Jesus is that he pre-existed and made the world, and he is great because he was willing to give up his immortality to become a human for awhile.
The GLORY of Jesus is that as a SON OF MAN, unlike any other son of man, he was perfectly committed to God, and that by his righteousness he is deserving of eternal life. This accomplishment occurred because he was BORN of God at the river being given God’s Spirit without measure.
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Matthew and Luke give two different genealogies, Matthew is always said to be Joseph’s natural lineage, while Luke’s is argued that it is Mary’s lineage verses an additional lineage of Joseph with the theory that he was born of the brother of his mother’s first husband , and the lineage given in Luke is of her first husband.
Regardless if Luke’s lineage is of Mary’s or that of Joseph’s mother’s first husband, Matthew tells us that the blood of Jesus is that of Joseph’s, this given lineage fulfills God’s promise.
Isaiah speaks of the virgin birth and it is to be a sign to know that Judah would not be besieged by Ephraimites and place a king from among their tribe therein. The virgin birth has NOTHING to do with Jesus being half human, but everything to do with a righteous man of the tribe of Judah ruling over David’s throne. The tribe of Ephraim became one of the lost tribes of Israel it never took rule over Jerusalem and it never will.
Isaiah 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
The weariness felt was held in the fact that the tribe of Ephraim was planning to attack Jerusalem and set up a king not from the clan of Judah. That weariness dishonored God as it was against faith in His already established promises. God gave them a sign revealing a new promise adding to the promise given prior that of the SEED of DAVID an eternal king would be made, that sign was that the eternal king from David would be born from a virgin. The seed God used to make Jesus in the womb of Mary, so that he could be in fact as promised of the seed of David, was that of Joseph’s. That is precisely what Matthew tells us when in chapter 1 the generations of Christ are given going from Abraham to David to Joseph.
Hi T8,
Your ongoing deep seated bitter antagonism and accusations against some here is the elephant in the room.
Can you never accept the views of others without such a reaction?
LU,
I will address each one of your examples where you try and prove that Jesus is Jehovah and show it to be false.
I will start with this one,
In Isaiah 43:10-11 and 45:21 JEHOVAH declares Himself to be the ONLY SAVIOUR. There is no other Saviour besides Him! According to the New Testament, Who is the ONLY SAVIOUR (Acts 4:10-12)?
2 Kings 13:5 (And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.
Isaiah 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Luke 4: 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
LU it is a VERY SIMPLE concept to understand that there is NO SAVIOR but the Heavenly Father, and that the WAY in WHICH He has SAVED us is through a MAN who said himself that it was NOT BY HIMSELF that he saves, but through his God and our God. We are SAVED because God anointed a MAN with His Spirit, which created a perfect man, also referred to as a lamb without spot or blemish.
Hebrew 5:9 And BEING MADE PERFECT, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
In the OT God SAVED Israel at different times through different ways, one being through MOSES departing the red sea, also by making a brasen serpent.
The above can also be used in the same manner for Christ being called a rock and a shepherd, he is those things because God was IN HIM as the Father is the true rock and the true shepherd, without God Jesus would have been nothing for men to write about. Jehovah was the rock and the shepherd that the Son of Man relied on.
Jesus was not a master, or the Christ, or a savior because he pre-existed being Jehovah, the scriptures tell us he is those things because Jehovah placed His Spirit upon him and CAUSED him to BECOME those things. Jehovah CAUSED a SON of MAN to become the Christ to become our master and to become our savior through his BLOOD. You are in utter denial of WHO Christ is and you thus deny who Jehovah is as well.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
God MADE Jesus a master over masters because Jesus followed the will of the one true master God. We discussed this before, it is a simple concept that I honestly cannot figure out how you cannot grasp it. God appointed Jesus as a King over David’s throne, and from that throne he will rule over all other kings. From that throne he will destroy all enemies having been GIVEN FROM God all authority to rule, and once all enemies have been destroyed Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and our God JEHOVAH, so that JEHOVAH will be ALL in ALL, because He is KING over ALL.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
