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Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2011,14:15) Quote (Pastry @ July 19 2011,05:32) Mike! Ok but you never said you used the original transcript, until Paladin….
Hi Irene,Then you have apparently forgotten about the time, months ago, when I gave you the link to NETBible? The post where I explicitely showed you how to find the actual Hebrew or Greek words used, and how to find the various definitions of those words, along with other information on that scripture?
Mike! But that was after Paladin came on the scene…..That is my point I am making. So now we all have to learn Greek in order to get the true meaning of any Scriptures. That is what I got out of your and Ed's latest posts. And who is it that teaches us the Greek? Can they make a mistake? To really learn another language takes years, not just a few months. And the older you get the harder it becomes. So you rather depend on the translator that is on the internet, then Gods Holy Spirit? I don't know…… I do know that my salvation depends on whether I believe in grace by Faith in Christ Jesus, and that to me is more important then anything. I am simple to old to worry…..and to tired….Peace nd Love IreneQuote
If education is believed to be so bad, according to you and Irene, why then was the first thing that challenged me “what are your credentials?” Where did you go to school?
Back to topPaladin! And where did I say that education is bad? I went to School and worked, just to learn this language. And what do the Mexicans do? Then I took Business to further my Education, and you dare say I said that?
Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2011,23:42) Hi Mike, Here is another example why of we need to go back to the original texts…
If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)On the onset this looks like a breach of the fifth commandment,
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS“!God bless
Ed J
Yes Ed,That is just one of the THOUSANDS of them. Thanks for your input.
Quote (Pastry @ July 20 2011,09:52) Mike! But that was after Paladin came on the scene…..That is my point I am making. So now we all have to learn Greek in order to get the true meaning of any Scriptures. That is what I got out of your and Ed's latest posts.
Hi Irene,Like I said before, Kangaroo Jack got me into researching the original languages and lexicons TWO YEARS AGO.
That was way before I knew Paladin. Then Kathi pointed me to NETBible, which is GREAT! (t8 even added a link to that site on HN's home page.) And then Shimmer pointed me to Biblos.com, which is also GREAT! So I've been doing this long before I knew Paladin.
And I'm not saying that YOU MUST learn Greek at all. I'm saying that I won't judge you for how YOU learn about God, so please don't judge me. I want to know more. It is interesting for me. I eat it up.
I had this discussion with Shimmer a long time ago, Irene. I told her that some people like fishing. Some people's passion is watching sports on TV. Others are in to working out at a gym all the time. My passion is delving deeper and deeper into God's written word using all the information available to me.
I feel that my quest IS guided by God's Spirit, as He often highlights things for me in my research that I would have otherwise overlooked.
Look at it this way, Irene: Up until about 400 years ago, the enemy had ALL the weapons. THEY alone had the words of scripture, and they kept them locked up tight, to where your average mom and pop didn't have access to them. And therefore, the average Joes couldn't check if what the Bishops were saying was really the word of God.
Imagine all the people who started pouring over their Bibles once they became readily available to everyone. Many of them were finding out the REAL truth of God for the very first time. And at this same time, they were finding out how badly they had been lied to all their lives. They now had the ammunition needed to make up their own minds about what the scriptures taught. Some of them even started fighting back against the enemy with their newfound weapons. What a revolution and revelation!
But even after Bibles were available to all, the easy access to lexicons and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries were not. So the enemy STILL had more weapons than we did. Now, with the Internet, WE have access to every bit of information that the enemy has. I would be a fool to not take advantage of that.
I don't want to walk into a gunfight with only a knife, Irene.
The same guns the enemy uses are available to me on the web, and I will sure as the Gospel use them. peace and love,
mikeHey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin,
I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mikeMike! I do see what you mean. But again I am getting really tired of all these accusations. What I want most is peace in my life. I also realize that HN is not the place to get it. So I am still going to come here, but hopefully I will not get into any lengthy controversy with anyone.
One day soon, I hope, Jesus will come and set all straight. To that day I am forever looking forward to….
Peace and Love to you and yours IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,13:04) Hey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin, I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:The Word is Rhema, and I have looked to confirm that that is what it meant.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,12:08) Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2011,23:42) Hi Mike, Here is another example why of we need to go back to the original texts…
If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)On the onset this looks like a breach of the fifth commandment,
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS“!God bless
Ed J
Yes Ed,That is just one of the THOUSANDS of them. Thanks for your input.
Thousands?
.Quote (Pastry @ July 21 2011,08:56) Mike! I do see what you mean. But again I am getting really tired of all these accusations. What I want most is peace in my life. I also realize that HN is not the place to get it. So I am still going to come here, but hopefully I will not get into any lengthy controversy with anyone.
One day soon, I hope, Jesus will come and set all straight. To that day I am forever looking forward to….
Peace and Love to you and yours Irene
I look forward to that day also, Irene.Quote (942767 @ July 21 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,13:04) Hey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin, I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:The Word is Rhema, and I have looked to confirm that that is what it meant.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,And how did you “guess” it was “rhema” before you looked? It sure doesn't fit in with Paladin's “guide” does it? If so, then how?
mike
Quote (Ed J @ July 21 2011,16:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,12:08) Yes Ed, That is just one of the THOUSANDS of them. Thanks for your input.
Thousands?
Sure. Hey, aren't you supposed to be getting to the bottom of things with Paladin?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2011,13:47) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,13:04) Hey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin, I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:The Word is Rhema, and I have looked to confirm that that is what it meant.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,And how did you “guess” it was “rhema” before you looked? It sure doesn't fit in with Paladin's “guide” does it? If so, then how?
mike
Hi Mike:What is Paladin's guide for this?
I guessed Rhema because it was similar to the following scripture:
Quote Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words(Rhema) that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 23 2011,07:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2011,13:47) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,13:04) Hey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin, I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:The Word is Rhema, and I have looked to confirm that that is what it meant.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,And how did you “guess” it was “rhema” before you looked? It sure doesn't fit in with Paladin's “guide” does it? If so, then how?
mike
Hi Mike:What is Paladin's guide for this?
I guessed Rhema because it was similar to the following scripture:
Quote Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words(Rhema) that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi guys.I went into hospital tuesday evening and just got home. so I will be catching up for a couple of days. We will have to play it by eatr for a littler while till I see how things are going.
Later, my friends.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,13:04) Hey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin, I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mike
Mike…..> Heres a common sense question for you, i'll keep it simple to as not to confuse you, if Rema and Logos were the exact same thing then why have two different words for them in the first place?… > Mall the around in you mind and then tell us OK. Forcing text to meet your dogmas of preexistence only proves you are predisposed to alter them to mean the same thing in order to fit your false conclusions Mike. IMOQuote (942767 @ July 22 2011,14:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2011,13:47) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2011,11:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2011,13:04) Hey Marty, Gene, Kerwin and Paladin, I was lead to this scripture a couple of nights ago, but didn't act on the “unction” or whatever until now:
Hebrews 1:3 NIV ©
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.Can you guess if “word” here is “rhema” or “logos”? Be honest and don't look first. Use your magic “rhema/logos” guide, and the info you've invented about the two words to decide BEFORE you look.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:The Word is Rhema, and I have looked to confirm that that is what it meant.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,And how did you “guess” it was “rhema” before you looked? It sure doesn't fit in with Paladin's “guide” does it? If so, then how?
mike
Hi Mike:What is Paladin's guide for this?
I guessed Rhema because it was similar to the following scripture:
Quote Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words(Rhema) that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Love in Christ,
Marty
Oh, I thought “rhema” only referred to “everyday written and spoken words” while “logos” was supposed to bring in the “mystical, magical” side of “word”.But here we have Heb 1:3 and John 6:63, where “rhema” is used to convey something other than your ordinary, run of the mill spoken or written “word”.
Then we have, say, 1 Cor 2:4, where “logos” is used ONLY to convey an ordinary, run of the mill spoken or written “word”.
So what gives? It sure seems to me that the two words are interchangeable, and that either one can be used for either scenario.
peace,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 23 2011,08:47) Mike…..> Heres a common sense question for you, i'll keep it simple to as not to confuse you, if Rema and Logos were the exact same thing then why have two different words for them in the first place?… > Mall the around in you mind and then tell us OK.
Then the man SAID these words……………Then the man UTTERED these words………….
Then the man SPOKE these words…………..
Then the man ARTICULATED these words…………..
Then the man COMMUNICATED these words……………
Then the man VOCALIZED these words………………
Gene, why do you suppose there are so many different English words to convey the same exact thought?
“MALL” that around in YOUR mind and then tell us, OK?
mike
Mike…………So which is it then……………..the man said Rema or Logos
the man uttered Rema or Logos
the man spoke Rema or Logos
the man articulated Rema or Logos
the man communicated Rema or Logos
the man vocalized Rema or Logos
So mike tell us was it Rema or Logos the man “said” “spoke” “uttered” “articulated” “Communicated” or “vocalized” ? Mike none of these change the meaning of the word ,”WORD” ,Just how the word was expressed or used. Now is that not what Paladin said , Logos is the Spirit behind the Rema or Words Spoken. Logos is the Attribute of GOD which is expresses Rema or words (intelligent utterances) but behind those expressed “words” or Rema is the force or intellect “LOGOS” which is GOD (IN) a Person. The LOGOS was (IN) JESUS and is (IN) all Saints of GOD also. That is How the LOGOS came to be (IN) FLESH, the flesh man Jesus. Mike let face it you simply do not believe Jesus when He said the Father was (IN) Him. Your Mind can not comprehend that becasue of all your preconceived false understanding of scriptures. You believe GOD is a “Separate” inanity, you cant comprehend how he can live (IN) a Person now can you Mike. Maybe this will help you The voice that Said through Jesus' mouth, “destory this temple and in three days I (GOD) shall raise (IT) (the body) UP”, That voice was the LOGOS (IN) Jesus speaking FIRST PERSON (THROUGH) Jesus' mouth.
peace and love…………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 24 2011,10:23)
So mike tell us was it Rema or Logos the man “said” “spoke” “uttered” “articulated” “Communicated” or “vocalized” ? Mike none of these change the meaning of the word ,”WORD” ,Just how the word was expressed or used.
Gene, you TRIED to make a point that there wouldn't be more than one word to convey the same meaning. I simply chose the word “spoke” from the English language to prove you wrong. But you can do it with any word at all. Simply type any English word into a Thesaurus and see how many other words convey the same meaning.Here's the list for “word”, from Dictionary.com:
account, adage, advice, announcement, bulletin, byword, comment, communication, communiqué, declaration, directive, discourse, dispatch, expression, gossip, hearsay, information, intelligence, intimation, introduction, message, news, notice, pronouncement, proverb, remark, report, rumble, rumor, saw, saying, scuttlebutt, speech, talk, tidings, utteranceQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 24 2011,10:23)
Logos is the Spirit behind the Rema or Words Spoken.
1 Cor 2:4 NET ©
My conversation and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power,Let's translate these two instances of “logos” with your understanding:
My (SPIRIT BEHIND THE RHEMA) and my preaching were not with persuasive (ATTRIBUTES OF GOD), but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power
Do you see how the last phrase of the sentence differentiates BETWEEN the plain old “persuasive words” of Paul and the “demonstration of the Spirit and of power”? So in this instance, “logos” is simply a plain old WORD.
What you WANT Paul to say is, “my RHEMA comes FROM the LOGOS”. But what Paul really says is, “my LOGOS comes FROM the SPIRIT”.
Paladin's theory has been debunked. Let it go, Gene.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 24 2011,10:23)
The LOGOS was (IN) JESUS and is (IN) all Saints of GOD also.
Now if only you had a scripture that said either one of those things, you'd be well on your way. Unfortunately, you must insert your own words into the scriptures to make them form around your own understanding – an understanding which obviously has much room for improvement. I don't have to do that, Gene. So remember that it is YOU who adds words to “FORCE THE TEXT”, not me.And I find it utterly amazing that YOU would go around making this claim about ME, when it is obviously YOU who does it.
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