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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:45) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,12:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:07) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,10:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,02:50) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2011,00:29) If I would ask you if it was the Word made flesh that was dwelling among the people of that time and has a glory like the glory of the only begotten of God that John was speaking of then you would agree. The difference between us is that you believe Jesus is the Word while I believe Jesus is the Word made flesh.
Actually Kerwin,Our difference lies in the first line of verse 14. You believe “the Word made flesh” is a noun phrase. And that means that you really believe the first line speaks of “the Word THAT WAS made flesh”.
Is that correct, Kerwin? Because it can only be two ways, as far as I can tell:
1. The Word THAT WAS made flesh – as a noun phrase.
2. The Word BECAME flesh – as a noun/verb/modifier phrase.
Which of these do you beleive?
Hi Mike,Are they both not saying the same thing?
God bless
Ed J
Ed,Consider:
1. The boy broke his leg and limped. (Noun/verb/verb)
2. The boy with the broken leg limped. (Noun phrase/verb)
So “NO”, they are not the same.
Hi Mike,They are not worded the same, but they sure do mean
exactly the same thing; do they not, yes or no?God bless
Ed J
No Ed,They don't.
Hi Mike,How so, please explain?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:52) Like I said: it was not your use of grammar, but my
recollection of the user name “worshiping Jesus”,
that clued me in on who you may have meant.
So are you saying you don't recollect “the Word” that was just mentioned in verse 14?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53) Hi Mike, How so, please explain?
Noun/verb/verbNoun phrase/verb
If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:56) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:52) Like I said: it was not your use of grammar, but my
recollection of the user name “worshiping Jesus”,
that clued me in on who you may have meant.
So are you saying you don't recollect “the Word” that was just mentioned in verse 14?
Hi Mike,Your mixing peas and spaghetti noodles, meaning
you're applying my answer to a different question;
a question, I might add, that you have not asked.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:58) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53) Hi Mike, How so, please explain?
Noun/verb/verbNoun phrase/verb
If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.
Hi Mike,Please explain why you think that makes any difference?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd,
Why do you think I went through the “do you like him” exercise in the first place? I was setting you up. I knew that you knew the truth of the grammar, so I invented a group of sentences with a subject, and “his” and “him” pronouns.
You handled the sample sentence brilliantly, because it is simple common sense that the “his” and “him” refer back to the subject, which was “Worshipping Jesus”.
And that proved to me that you understand the grammar rules. And since you proved to me that you understand the rules, I can logically come to my conclusion that although you understand the rules of John 1:14-15, you are willing to avoid, ignore, or break those rules to achieve your desired result.
And that is the conclusion I have come to with you, Ed.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,15:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:58) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53) Hi Mike, How so, please explain?
Noun/verb/verbNoun phrase/verb
If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.
Hi Mike,Please explain why you think that makes any difference?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Let me try a different one, Ed.The boy ran and jumped.
The boy who ran jumped.
The first one implies a boy running and jumping in a single occurance – like a day at the park.
The second one could be speaking of a boy who ran 20 years ago, then lost his legs, had new ones sewn back on, and was finally able to jump 20 years later.
Ed, I have neither the time nor the patience to do an English grammar lesson with someone like you. You play too many games and are many times a waste of my time.
This post wasn't even to you, so let it go. My official answer to you is: Ed, if you still can't see the difference, then it is none of your business, because I was talking to Kerwin anyway.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,08:53) Ed, Why do you think I went through the “do you like him” exercise in the first place? I was setting you up. I knew that you knew the truth of the grammar, so I invented a group of sentences with a subject, and “his” and “him” pronouns.
You handled the sample sentence brilliantly, because it is simple common sense that the “his” and “him” refer back to the subject, which was “Worshipping Jesus”.
And that proved to me that you understand the grammar rules. And since you proved to me that you understand the rules, I can logically come to my conclusion that although you understand the rules of John 1:14-15, you are willing to avoid, ignore, or break those rules to achieve your desired result.
And that is the conclusion I have come to with you, Ed.
Hi Mike,How do you know that all the translators are playing by
the rules that you proclaim that they should be translating by?
Furthermore, how can you be sure that they accurately translated
the true meaning that God intended from one language to the next?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,08:57) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,15:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:58) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53) Hi Mike, How so, please explain?
Noun/verb/verbNoun phrase/verb
If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.
Hi Mike,Please explain why you think that makes any difference?
God bless
Ed J
Let me try a different one, Ed.The boy ran and jumped.
The boy who ran jumped.
The first one implies a boy running and jumping in a single occurance – like a day at the park.
The second one could be speaking of a boy who ran 20 years ago, then lost his legs, had new ones sewn back on, and was finally able to jump 20 years later.
Ed, I have neither the time nor the patience to do an English grammar lesson with someone like you. You play too many games and are many times a waste of my time.
This post wasn't even to you, so let it go. My official answer to you is: Ed, if you still can't see the difference, then it is none of your business, because I was talking to Kerwin anyway.
Hi Mike,Now that I understand you premise,
please explain the application where you are using it.
If not for me, then for whomever may want to know as I also want to know.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGene and Ed,
I'll wait to hear back from Kerwin before moving forward with this line of questioning.
peace,
mikeKerwin,
I pray that you are okay. I haven't heard from you in a while, and am getting a little worried because of your health issues.
It is written that God made all things through the Word and it is also written that God made the universe through the son.
Not only do both have this attribute, but Jesus has a name written on him when he returns to Earth.
“The Word of God”.
T8…..The reason Jesus is “called”, the word of God, is because he brings to us GOD’S WORDS , he is the “mediator” between God and mankind. Remember what Jesus said, “the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him who sent me.”.
If they were his words then that would mean he is expressing his own will on us, but he never did that, he only expressed GOD THE FATHERS WILL. Jesus is not the word himself, he simply was telling us God the Fathers words. Heb 1:1-2
Please notice the Greek word used there “en”, that same word is used describing the Prophets God spoke through also, so should we also say the prophets were Gods word “themselves”. No of course not, neither was Jesus himself God’s word , he delivered God the Fathers words to us, and as a result he is “called” the word of God, reflecting the Glory to GOD THE FATHER, not himself.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
Amen t8
Gene
Precisely because the Son of God from before the foundation of the world WAS
THE WORD OF GOD…That’s why JOHN calls it THE WORD because HE SAYS THE WORDS OF GOD from all eternity;
“LIGHT BE LIGHT” THIS IS the person named “THE WORD “THAT SAYS THESE WORDS OF GOD.
When He returns He has written on Himself: THE WORD OF GOD.
Revelation[13] And he was clothed with a garment soaked in blood: and HIS NAME is called The Word of God.
Amen!
The Apostolic Fathers believed that the Word came from God at some point. That the Word was the first to be brought forth.
Justin Martyr (ca. 150 A.D) for example taught this:
by the Word Himself, who took shape, and became man, and was called Jesus Christ
the Word, who is the firstborn of God, was brought forth without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ,
Jesus Christ is the only proper Son who has been begotten by God, being His Word and first-begotten.
And the first power after God the Father and Lord of all is the Word, who is also the Son; and of Him we will, in what follows, relate how He took flesh and became man.
His Son, who alone is properly called Son, the Word, who also was with Him and was begotten before the works,
For next to God, we worship and love the Word who is out of the unbegotten and ineffable God, since also He became man for our sakes,
And God, the Father of the cosmos, who is the perfect intelligence, the truth. And the Word, being His Son,
Tatian (165 A.D) wrote this:
And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world
For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.
What do you think of this? The idea that the Word came from God (begotten) before creation but after the eternal God?
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