Examination of the incarnation doctrine.

This topic contains 3,211 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  mikeboll64 7 years ago.

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  • #237478
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,22:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!


    Hi Paladin,

    I have come to the conclusions I have by
    reading God's word and being lead by the “HolySpirit”.
    How have you come to the conclusions that you have come to?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237479
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,536

    EDJ…………I don't see how your view is different from Paladin's either brother. He has said it right the Logos is alive in all Flesh who has it in them, Just as Jesus had the same Logos (IN) him. The Logos is the Father who is GOD. When it says Christ in you, that is saying the CHRISTOS or Anointing Spirit of GOD is in you, just as it was in Jesus the anointed also. We are made one with Jesus through the Christos, which is God the FATHER'S Spirit sent into our hearts, through the Spirit Logos which is God's words, the same way Jesus was and is. IMO

    peace and love………………………………………gene

    #237481
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Baker @ Feb. 26 2011,13:35)


    Quote
    Paladin! All I am going to say to you yet, you are interpreting those Scriptures not the way they are written, but the way YOU want them to say. That is adding to those Scriptures and to me, that is 100% wrong.

    Unless you are instructed in Greek, you are arguing from a translation, which is the weakest form of argument. All you can insist upon, is that the translation you are using is the correct, and the only correct one. If you are instructed in Greek, then you know what I have posted to you is true.

    Quote
    and all Christians are not in the form of God. that is so wrong. there will be the elect that will be in the form of God, like Jesus is, but not all or even not now.

    The difference between the form Elohim and the form anthrwpos, is anthrwpos is Elohim trapped temporarily in flesh.

    “What is man [anthrwpos] that thou are mindful of him?” Thou hast made him a little lower than Elohim” [Psa 8:4-5]

    Quote
    Phillipians not only say the form of God, and o yes, it is articulated, just the way it is written. I don;t understand why you think that.

    Because it is not articulated in the Greek, but the translators made it appear as though it is articulated to make a point that is not true.

    Quote
    But it also says that JESUS WAS MADE TO THE LIKENESS OF MAN. If He was made like that then He had to be something else first.

    He was “born to be king” but took on the likeness of the common man.
    He could have commanded angels, but took instezd, the form of a servant (He washed the disciples feet, like a servant, to give them an example to follow).

    Quote
    And what form is God? If Jesus was in the form of God, then He was like God.

    There you go adding that little “definite article” that is missing in the Greek. See my friend, why you need that article? It does make a difference.

    Quote
    We all know that God is Spirit. And also He had a glory with His Father before the World was. ( John 17:5)

    Right! And you had eternal life, in promise, before the world was. It is exactly the same with Jesus – “Who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame…”

    Tell me something Irene – If God was in the presence of God (Son with Father) wouldn't that be the most joy? Perfection in the presence of perfection? How then is it “Joy” for God to leave God's presence to come to earth to be tortured and murdered, just to be returned to where you began? Would YOU do that? I wouldn't. And I do not think you and I are smarter than God.

    Quote
    And like I said before, We know he is Spirit now. Or do you disagree with that?

    You cannot see a spirit, can you? “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.[Acts 1:9-11]

    What did the disciples see? “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” [Luke 24:39]

    Quote
    One other thing I did not mention about John 1;1 who is it that became flesh in verse 14? John 1:1-13 shows that there are two, not one. Then who is it, if not Jesus, who became flesh.

    It was “ho logos.” “ho logos” is a “what,” not a “who.”

    Quote
    you say a lot, but I don't believe a word you say, because you add to Scriptures and say the opposite of what is written. And give other Scriptures that have nothing to do with it. And say other things about our Christian lives, which I agree with, but has nothing to do with the preexistibg of Jesus.

    Dear sister, I would be badly disappointed if you changed your understanding based on one reading of what I wrote. I would expect you to not only read it, but compare it with what you understand, and compare them both with what the scripture actually says, then ask yourself, “which one leaves no contradictions in doctrinal comprehension?” “Which one leaves no contradiction with other scriptures?”

    Quote
    One more thing you say The Word of God is the logos in John 1:1, so the logos became flesh? That is why I gave you Rev. 19 to show you that it is not the logos, but Yeshua…is Rev. 19 logos too? Well I don't think so, no I know so….You are like Ed, He believes it is the Holy Spirit….. that is wrong too.

    Why do you chide me for adding to what is not there in scripture, when you use “Yeshua” which is not there in scripture? Is there some advantage to understanding “Yeshua” over “Jesus” that I am missing? See my friend, sometimes it helps to explain things not covered in the scriptures themselves. I understand that. You chide me for it.

    Quote
    I don't belong to any Church and did not believe in the preexisting of Jesus until God's Holy spirit taught us. Your theory about that is wrong too.

    It was God's Holy Spirit that teaches “Study to show thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing (or handling aright) the logos of God.” [II Tim 2:15]. If you take the logos of God out of chrono9logical order, how can you possibly comprehend it's message? You begin with the last book written, and begin to build a concept of “logos” which is contrary to what the Holy SPirit inspir
    ed the authors to write. Then you argue with me when I try to show you how it should be studied.

    When you say “I don't believe anything you have said” only then do I begin to applaude, for you should not believe it based on the fact I said it. But you certainly should search the scriptures, as we are told to do [John 5:39]

    “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the logos [word] with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” [Acts 17:11]

    Even Peter understood that some in the church were taking the scriptures in the wrong order, and making up doctrines based upon flase chronologies, to their own destruction; “..even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” [II Pet 3:15-17]

    Quote
    funny you say that Christ is forming in you, yet before you said we are already in the Form of God. Which is it?

    1st of all, it was not I who said “Christ be formed in you,” It was Paul who said it. “My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you” [Gal 4:10] I am not making it up as I go along, I have given you scripture for every claim I make.

    2nd of all, Tell me Irene, what do you understand John 10:34-35 to be saying? “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken…”

    Notice Irene, John does NOT say, “I said ye WILL BE Gods” but He said “I said ye ARE Gods.” Do you believe John? Then why don't you believe me when I quote John?

    Quote
    As far as the logos is concerned most of the Bible is. But not John 1;1, No the logos did not become flesh. That is your interpretation of the Word of God.

    John 1:14
    “Kai o`. logos sarx. egeneto”
    “and the logos flesh became”

    Quote
    As far as the trinity is concerned, I don't know were you got your information from.

    Philip Schaff, [1819-1893] Historian; and author of 8 volume “History of the Christian Church.”

    The observation about the 1000 year judgment from God is from my own study of the times, and scriptures.

    As for your presenting your Husband's conclusions, I have nothing to say, as I have not studied with him.

    Quote
    Peace Irene

    And grace and hope to you Irene.

    #237482
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:50)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,22:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: י&#14
    92;וה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!


    Hi Paladin,

    I have come to the conclusions I have by
    reading God's word and being lead by the “HolySpirit”.
    How have you come to the conclusions that you have come to?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    I have said before, I do not think we are in disagreement as to the doctrines of scripture, as far as I have read your posts.

    I am in disagreement with your numerology system, and will not respond to anything that seems to use numerology for a source.

    I have to consider how the readers will consider any response to your posts, in which you use numerology in your material. I do not want it said that Paladin has agreed with that aspect of your presentations.

    Otherwise, I have no issue with you my friend.

    #237484
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,23:50)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:50)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,22:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in
    English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!


    Hi Paladin,

    I have come to the conclusions I have by
    reading God's word and being lead by the “HolySpirit”.
    How have you come to the conclusions that you have come to?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    I have said before, I do not think we are in disagreement as to the doctrines of scripture, as far as I have read your posts.

    I am in disagreement with your numerology system, and will not respond to anything that seems to use numerology for a source.

    I have to consider how the readers will consider any response to your posts, in which you use numerology in your material. I do not want it said that Paladin has agreed with that aspect of your presentations.

    Otherwise, I have no issue with you my friend.


    Great!

    #237485
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,536

    Paladin……….Well put i feel the same way about brother EDJ. Much of what you are saying here i have for years tried to explain, but the false teaching learned here by many have hindered there growth that is for sure. I am not as articulated in scripture as you are though and you add more soundness to them. I sure hope T8 will read some of this Brother, he has good logic and i believe he could comprehend what you are saying. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

    #237505
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:44)
    Hi Paladin,

    Let me tell you I've had my understanding of God for over 30 years
    before numbers such as in my Posts were introduced to me.

    Have you ever seen the Jim Cary movie called: 'Bruce Almighty'?
    Well there is a scene where he is crying out to God… “God to show me a sign”!
    He drives past one sign that says “Bridge Out” and then another that says “Caution”.
    He is completely oblivious to the “many signs”, continuing towards an incomplete Bridge.
    That is how numbers were for me, “no interest” “didn't care” and still I kept seeing the number 54,
    but didn't have a clue as to why? Then in 2001 I was introduced to the book,Theomatics II by Del Washburn.

    Or Are you familiar with the Prophet Amos?
    Amos 7:14 …I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son;
    but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit: And the LORD took me
    as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.

    Well my story is very similar, God still uses people today and it's my calling to
    write a book that now documents the very PROOF of God's existence.
    I have No buffeting spirit, like the Apostle Paul had, having No ego.
    YHVH=63 has even wrote about me in his book: “The Bible”=63.

    This has “only” been done (as I see things) to be used as conclusive proof of “HIS” existence.
    Without it, I would be considered just another “crackpot”, in a long history of crackpots.
    As my friend Gary Robb once said: “Nobody can know everything about everything”.
    But God's kingdom is “real” and the extent of this proof is yet to be revealed to all.

    Sorry for so long a version, but I thought you should know.
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.
    I have learned based on numbers No “Theology”, though satan might tell you differently!

    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole), yet it is
    neither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes,
    but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has
    occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    You see my friend, that is what I was trying to tell you. You say that the Gematria you use will be the American King James Bible, but why would God publish his truth for all of mankind, if it is only understood from a Gematria developed and marketed in 1999?

    It doesn't work for me. And no, Satan did not reveal it to me.
    Google did.

    #237507
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 27 2011,05:00)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:44)
    Hi Paladin,

    Let me tell you I've had my understanding of God for over 30 years
    before numbers such as in my Posts were introduced to me.

    Have you ever seen the Jim Cary movie called: 'Bruce Almighty'?
    Well there is a scene where he is crying out to God… “God to show me a sign”!
    He drives past one sign that says “Bridge Out” and then another that says “Caution”.
    He is completely oblivious to the “many signs”, continuing towards an incomplete Bridge.
    That is how numbers were for me, “no interest” “didn't care” and still I kept seeing the number 54,
    but didn't have a clue as to why? Then in 2001 I was introduced to the book,Theomatics II by Del Washburn.

    Or Are you familiar with the Prophet Amos?
    Amos 7:14 …I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son;
    but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit: And the LORD took me
    as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.

    Well my story is very similar, God still uses people today and it's my calling to
    write a book that now documents the very PROOF of God's existence.
    I have No buffeting spirit, like the Apostle Paul had, having No ego.
    YHVH=63 has even wrote about me in his book: “The Bible”=63.

    This has “only” been done (as I see things) to be used as conclusive proof of “HIS” existence.
    Without it, I would be considered just another “crackpot”, in a long history of crackpots.
    As my friend Gary Robb once said: “Nobody can know everything about everything”.
    But God's kingdom is “real” and the extent of this proof is yet to be revealed to all.

    Sorry for so long a version, but I thought you should know.
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.
    I have learned based on numbers No “Theology”, though satan might tell you differently!

    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole), yet it is
    neither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes,
    but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has
    occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    You see my friend, that is what I was trying to tell you. You say that the Gematria you use will be the American King James Bible, but why would God publish his truth for all of mankind, if it is only understood from a Gematria developed and marketed in 1999?

    It doesn't work for me. And no, Satan did not reveal it to me.
    Google did.


    Hi Paladin,

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    The “Gematria”(74) I refer to, was encoded into the “AKJV Bible”(74); which was finished in 1611, NOT 1999!
    “YHVH”(63) orchestrated this (above) pattern into “The Bible”(63); you need to pay attention to what is said.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237559
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2011,05:14)


    Quote
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.

    That is precisely the argument made by Jehovah's Witnesses who use their own number system to reach conclusions not otherwise understood in scripture.

    Look, Brother, I have not argued that your scriptural presentation is wrong, I have only said that your numerology system does not convince me.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) insist that the persecution of the Jews referenced in Genesis 15:13 began when Ishmael teased little brother Isaac; and they figure the 430 years of Gal 3:17 is from when Ishmael teased Isaac, till Moses gave the Jews the law on Sinai.

    The problem with that is, Exo 12:40 tells us the children of Israel sojourned in egypt 430 years; and Paul tells us in Gal 3:17 that the law followed the covenant by 430 years.

    The problem with the JW's figures is simple; they count Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as children of Israel. Abraham was never a child of Israel, he was Israel's grandfather; Isaac was never a child of Israel, he was Israel's Father; and Israel was never a child of Israel. That would make Israel his own father, which is impossible.

    Their “numbeirng system” is off by at least 215 years, assuming there is anything to it to begin with, which I do not assume.

    Quote
    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.

    My response has always followed your posts using numerology system for evidence.

    Quote
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole),

    It is not unknown to me.

    Quote
    yet it isneither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!

    Since you have asserted a thing, it is now in the perview of
    public domain, and I can respond without “answering a matter before I have heard it.”

    You cannot prove God orchestrated the numerology system published in 1999. Your later assertion that your reference was to the American King James Bible of 1611 is another error; when King James authorized the research culminating in the production of the 1611 translation, America was still 219 years in the future. There was no “American King James Version” until 1999. There was only copies of the 1611 version used in America, a far different thing.

    Quote
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes, but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    I guess that would depend upon whether man manipulated it, diminished look or not. You yourself told us you got it from a book authored by a man in the present. If this is true, then God did not speak to us last throguh his son Jesus, but rather he is still speaking, as you said the book is only up to chapter 21 and is still being written.

    I do not accept that premise.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org[/quote]
    You see my friend, that is what I was trying to tell you. You say that the Gematria you use will be the American King James Bible, but why would God publish his truth for all of mankind, if it is only understood from a Gematria developed and marketed in 1999?

    It doesn't work for me. And no, Satan did not reveal it to me.
    Google did.[/quote]
    Hi Paladin,

    God's Signature
    The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    The “Gematria”(74) I refer to, was encoded into the “AKJV Bible”(74); which was finished in 1611, NOT 1999!
    “YHVH”(63) orchestrated this (above) pattern into “The Bible”(63); you need to pay attention to what is said.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237561
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Quote
    You yourself told us you got it from a book authored by a man in the present.


    Hi Paladin,

    No; he convinced me there was something to “Theomatics”.
    His book deals only with the Greek and Hebrew scriptures.

    My research has discovered a Gematria pattern in the “AKJV Bible”.
    The “AKJV Bible” stands for Authorized King James Version;
    first published in 1611; and revised several times since.

    This pattern also extends back into the Greek, with links directly to both Hebrew and Greek.
    Whether you acknowledge Gematria or not, it doesn't change the veracity of it's truth.
    Just like an “atheist” not believing in God, does not nullify YHVH's existence.

    You believe there's nothing to it, because you have not examined the evidence.
    Just like 'athiests' never examined the evidence of God's existence.
    They just 'ASSUME' that nobody can know more than they do!
    Seems you have something in common with atheists; aye?

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)

    #237563
     karmarie 
    Member
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 2,139

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2011,23:21)

    Quote
    You yourself told us you got it from a book authored by a man in the present.


    Hi Paladin,

    No; he convinced me there was something to “Theomatics”.
    His book deals only with the Greek and Hebrew scriptures.

    My research has discovered a Gematria pattern in the “AKJV Bible”.
    The “AKJV Bible” stands for Authorized King James Version;
    first published in 1611; and revised several times since.

    This pattern also extends back into the Greek, with links directly to both Hebrew and Greek.
    Whether you acknowledge Gematria or not, it doesn't change the veracity of it's truth.
    Just like an “atheist” not believing in God, does not nullify YHVH's existence.

    You believe there's nothing to it, because you have not examined the evidence.
    Just like 'athiests' never examined the evidence of God's existence.
    They just 'ASSUME' that nobody can know more than they do!
    Seems you have something in common with atheists; aye?

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    But Ed, what happens when the evidence goes against YOU (remember)……and you only have to walk outside and take a look at all there is to see evidence, Ed.

    #237564
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Hi Karmarie,

    What evidence are you suggesting would go against me?

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237565
     karmarie 
    Member
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 2,139

    Ed, you know, what the numbers added up to…..etc.

    #237566
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 27 2011,21:05)
    Ed, you know, what the numbers added up to…..etc.


    Hi Karmarie,

    I don't understand what you mean?

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237567
     karmarie 
    Member
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 2,139

    Dont worry.

    but Ed, numbers and calculation are not what Jesus spoke of. Jesus spoke in parables and spoke of things heavenly. The evidence of God is all around us. Things seen and things not seen.

    I suppose this is way off topic! ok. Stay on topic.

    #237572
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,536

    EDJ………….Please listen to what Paladin is saying Brother, you are caught up in this number thing, that is not new, it has been around for many years. Years ago i saw a man writing numbers on a cement floor and talking to himself about them, not knowing what he was doing i went over and ask him what he was doing and he said “don;t you see this number was the old address of this place and another place that had the same address was a accident and another place there was another thing happened and this means that over on this address somewhere els this was going to happen” or something like that , I realized he had a problem and began to walk away and he began to follow me and explain what all these numbers represented, I ask him when this all started and he said when he was a child he and a friend was playing on a mountain and lightning struck them and every sense then he could understand the numbers and what they meant, so i turned to him and said I believe you have a demon brothering you . He throw up his hand and fell backward yelling “I am not mean, I am not mean” I said to him i never said you were mean, but you do need some help and i gave him our Pastors card and said to call him and maybe he could help him.

    EDJ I am not saying you have a demon because i don't think you do OK, but this numbering thing has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years, They have made movies about it even recently one like the Divinici Code and so forth. EDJ listen to what Paladin is saying to you he is giving you sound advice brother. You are (FAR) more effective without the number thing brother. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

    #237578
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2011,20:21)


    Quote
    You yourself told us you got it from a book authored by a man in the present.

    Hi Paladin,

    No; he convinced me there was something to “Theomatics”.
    His book deals only with the Greek and Hebrew scriptures.
    [/quote]

    o.k. Of course that makes me wonder how you decided what numerical value to place on the english alphabet. Is it the phonetic value, or the placement within the alphabet? You know, 1st position = 1 etc. – but then that leaves me wondering when it jumps to 20, 200, etc.

    Quote
    My research has discovered a Gematria pattern in the “AKJV Bible”. The “AKJV Bible” stands for Authorized King James Version; first published in 1611; and revised several times since.

    Glad you cleared that up. You just got a thumb-up in my appreciation level.

    Quote
    This pattern also extends back into the Greek, with links directly to both Hebrew and Greek. Whether you acknowledge Gematria or not, it doesn't change the veracity of it's truth.

    Well, my friend, that goes without saying. Neither does your acceptance of it, thoguh, if you want the truth about it. In other words, neither my rejection of it nor your acceptance of it makes it true or false.

    That is the difference between your gematria and scripture, it is truth whether we accept or reject it.

    Quote
    Just like an “atheist” not believing in God, does not nullify YHVH's existence.

    Wrong analogy my friend, because nothing a man decides has anmy effect upon the veracity of scripture; but man's practice of theomatics may very well give it a life it has no right to.

    Quote
    You believe there's nothing to it, because you have not examined the evidence.

    That's where you are wrong my friend, I examined it when it was an infant, and rejected it because it purported to clear up what scripture made obscure. That would automatically mean that only man was capable of communicating truth to man, God could not. I do not believe that. It is not scholarship that makes scripture clear, it is “much study” that weary's the flesh, and it is the Holy Spirit that brings the solace scripture is intended to bring, with the simplicity of the gospel, not obscured in numerology and dark knowledge.

    Quote
    Just like 'athiests' never examined the evidence of God's existence. They just 'ASSUME' that nobody can know more than they do!

    I think that is an unfair attack on athiest's, my friend. I have discussed scripture with several athiests who have put a lifetime into studying the Hebrew/Christian scriptures, and simply cannot comprehend the message entirely because of what the church has done to its message, i.e., obscured it in doctrine and creed.

    Quote
    Seems you have something in common with atheists; aye?

    Oh, I would agree, just not what you think it is. I have in common with some of them a love for the truth, and a constant striving to dodge around the Christian concept of
    “orthodoxy,” looking for truth in all the “unorthodox” places. Like “Scripture.”

    It is the Christian “orthodox position” that has driven many athiests out of the church and made them look elsewhere.

    #237597
     Baker 
    Member
    • Topics started 2
    • Total replies 2,348

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2011,00:25)
    Paladin……….Well put i feel the same way about brother EDJ. Much of what you are saying here i have for years tried to explain, but the false teaching learned here by many have hindered there growth that is for sure. I am not as articulated in scripture as you are though and you add more soundness to them. I sure hope T8 will read some of this Brother, he has good logic and i believe he could comprehend what you are saying. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene


    Gene!  That is a direct judgment against those who believe Jesus preexisted His birth on earth.  My growth in the truth has escalated to a point that you have no idea.  I could say the same to you.  First you don.t believe in a Satan, even so there are clear Scriptures that He does exist.  Then you denied even what Jesus said, just like Paladin.  OH yes, I hope t8 will see this too.  Paladin is just as wrong as Ed. is….interpreting Scriptures to your and Paladins view does not make them go away.  They are the truth, and in truth you should worship.  And the truth shall set you free.
    Jesus came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who send Him.  No other way can anyone interpret that, it would be adding…. And that is 100% wrong…..
    Peace Irene
    PS No church has shown us that, but God's Holy Spirit did.

    #237598
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Baker @ Feb. 28 2011,06:34)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2011,00:25)
    Paladin……….Well put i feel the same way about brother EDJ. Much of what you are saying here i have for years tried to explain, but the false teaching learned here by many have hindered there growth that is for sure. I am not as articulated in scripture as you are though and you add more soundness to them. I sure hope T8 will read some of this Brother, he has good logic and i believe he could comprehend what you are saying. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene


    Gene!  That is a direct judgment against those who believe Jesus preexisted His birth on earth.  My growth in the truth has escalated to a point that you have no idea.  I could say the same to you.  First you don.t believe in a Satan, even so there are clear Scriptures that He does exist.  Then you denied even what Jesus said, just like Paladin.  OH yes, I hope t8 will see this too.  Paladin is just as wrong as Ed. is….interpreting Scriptures to your and Paladins view does not make them go away.  They are the truth, and in truth you should worship.  And the truth shall set you free.
    Jesus came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who send Him.  No other way can anyone interpret that, it would be adding…. And that is 100% wrong…..
    Peace Irene
    PS No church has shown us that, but God's Holy Spirit did.


    Hello again dear sister;

    Would you mind considering something for a moment?

    Did you know you had the promise of eternal life before the world began? “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;” [Titus 1:2]

    Yet, we both know you did not preexist your own birth.

    Paul says Jesus did not predate Adam, “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the LAST Adam was made a quickening SPIRIT. 46 Howbeit that WAS NOT FIRST WHICH WAS (Jesus) SPIRITUAL, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

    Jesus referenced several things that took place prior to creation. We were given the promise of eternal life before God created the world; God promised Jesus glory, before the world was created; God hid his wisdom for our glory before he created the world; We were chosen in Christ before God created the world; We were given by God, works to perform, before he created the world; We were given purpose and grace in Christ, before God created the world; Jesus was foreordained to be the sacrificial lamb before the foundation of the world; God loved Jesus before the foundation of the world. All these things were already set to happen, before the world was even begun in creation.

    “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:”

    “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:” [Eph 1:4]

    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”[Eph 2:10]

    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” [II Tim 1:9]

    “But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”

    “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” [John 17:5]

    Col 1:16 is a reference to the fact that Jesus made changes in the universe; specifically in the realm of heavenly authorities; WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers.

    “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” [Col 1:16-17]

    Jesus is “before all things” because he was elevated to first position in the creation, as the first one to be raised from the dead, without an intermediate prophet; and the first one raised from the dead to die no more. Col 1: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    When Jonah preached to Ninevah that their city would be destroyed in forty days, the citizens of Ninevah repented, and God adjusted the timeing of the judgment on them for one generation, which is how long it took for the next generation of citizens to rebel against God. It was an adjustment to the age of their destruction.

    The Hebrew author recognizes that when the Mosaic dispensation (old covenant) ended, and the new covenant began, it was another “adjustment” of the ages. THAT is the reference of Heb 1:2 and Heb 11:3

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the aiwns [ages];

    Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the aiwns [worlds] were [adjusted] framed by the reema [word] of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    #237601
     Baker 
    Member
    • Topics started 2
    • Total replies 2,348

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 28 2011,07:36)

    Quote (Baker @ Feb. 28 2011,06:34)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2011,00:25)
    Paladin……….Well put i feel the same way about brother EDJ. Much of what you are saying here i have for years tried to explain, but the false teaching learned here by many have hindered there growth that is for sure. I am not as articulated in scripture as you are though and you add more soundness to them. I sure hope T8 will read some of this Brother, he has good logic and i believe he could comprehend what you are saying. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene


    Gene!  That is a direct judgment against those who believe Jesus preexisted His birth on earth.  My growth in the truth has escalated to a point that you have no idea.  I could say the same to you.  First you don.t believe in a Satan, even so there are clear Scriptures that He does exist.  Then you denied even what Jesus said, just like Paladin.  OH yes, I hope t8 will see this too.  Paladin is just as wrong as Ed. is….interpreting Scriptures to your and Paladins view does not make them go away.  They are the truth, and in truth you should worship.  And the truth shall set you free.
    Jesus came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who send Him.  No other way can anyone interpret that, it would be adding…. And that is 100% wrong…..
    Peace Irene
    PS No church has shown us that, but God's Holy Spirit did.


    Hello again dear sister;

    Would you mind considering something for a moment?

    Did you know you had the promise of eternal life before the world began? “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;” [Titus 1:2]

    Yet, we both know you did not preexist your own birth.

    Paul says Jesus did not predate Adam, “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the LAST Adam was made a quickening SPIRIT. 46 Howbeit that WAS NOT FIRST WHICH WAS (Jesus) SPIRITUAL, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

    Jesus referenced several things that took place prior to creation. We were given the promise of eternal life before God created the world; God promised Jesus glory, before the world was created; God hid his wisdom for our glory before he created the world; We were chosen in Christ before God created the world; We were given by God, works to perform, before he created the world; We were given purpose and grace in Christ, before God created the world;  Jesus was foreordained to be the sacrificial lamb before the foundation of the world; God loved Jesus before the foundation of the world. All these things were already set to happen, before the world was even begun in creation.

    “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:”

    “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:” [Eph 1:4]

    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”[Eph 2:10]

    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” [II Tim 1:9]

    “But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”

    “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” [John 17:5]

    Col 1:16 is a reference to the fact that Jesus made changes in the universe; specifically in the realm of heavenly authorities; WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers.

    “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” [Col 1:16-17]

    Jesus is “before all things” because he was elevated to first position in the creation, as the first one to be raised from the dead, without an intermediate prophet; and the first one raised from the dead to die no more. Col 1: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    When Jonah preached to Ninevah that their city would be destroyed in forty days, the citizens of Ninevah repented, and God adjusted the timeing of the judgment on them for one generation, which is how long it took for the next generation of citizens to rebel against God. It was an adjustment to the age of their destruction.

    The Hebrew author recognizes that when the Mosaic dispensation (old covenant) ended, and the new covenant began, it was another “adjustment” of the ages. THAT is the reference of Heb 1:2 and Heb 11:3

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the aiwns [ages];

    Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the aiwns [worlds] were [adjusted] framed by the reema [word] of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


    Paladin! I truly don't know what to tell you? Yes, I know we didn't preexist.

    1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

    You should have gone on, and see that Jesus is from Heaven. Now we cannot say that. We were created out of the dust of the earth. Jesus came forth from God. I know that most think that in these next scriptures talks about Wisdom, I and others don't believe so.

    Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

    Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

    Pro 8:24 When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water.

    Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

    Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

    Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

    Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

    Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

    Pro 8:30 Then I was beside Him, as a master craftsman; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;

    Jesus was there as Gods Spokesman, His master craftsman and our Savior, who died for us. And certain members here want to make Him just like us, is to me upsetting. No man could ever have done that…..Only who c
    ame directley from Heaven like Scriptures shows….

    You see Jesus is much better then the Angels ever were,

    Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

    Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Hbr 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    look at the last Scripture…..Remember that Lord is Jesus and LORD in all capital letters Almighty God. And it is Almighty God talking through Jesus…Always cause nobody has seen Almighty God only He who came from God.
    Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
    Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
    Jhn 6:48 I am that bread of life.
    For Jesus to say this He had to be with His Father, before He became a man here on earth.

    He was like us in the flesh, but never sinned because he was taught by His Father and knew what was at stake if He would sin. To then say that He has to be like us, to me is outrageous. He is the literal Son of God, not made out of the dust of the earth like we are.
    Peace Irene

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