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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2012,02:48) Hi KW,
Yes all will eventually.
But acknowledging that fact saves nobody.
Nick;It is written:
Matthew 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 26 2012,05:19) Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2012,06:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 25 2012,20:29) To all………..No one has risen from the Grave to eternal Life yet but Jesus, all who have died are waiting a “RESURRECTION” from the GRAVE. The book of Hebrews plainly shows this , Heb 11:3……….And these ALL , having obtained a good report through faith, recieved “NOT” the promise; 40, God having provided some better thing for us, that they “without us” should not be made perfect
Heb 11:13…….These all “DIED” in faith “NOT” having recieved the promises
Again no one has risen to eternal Life yet but Jesus alone and that includes all the saints and Patriarchs of old. All are waiting for the First resurrection that will witness the redemption of their bodies. as Paul said.
peace and love to you all……………………..gene
Gene,You are discounting that Scripture sometimes speaks in general and thus what it states may not apply to specific instances.
Here are two that witness to what I state:
Matthew 2:3
King James Version (KJV)3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
Matthew 3:5
King James Version (KJV)5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Giving these witnesses your premise that “all” means every single case is unsound.
Kerwin…………I did not write those scriptures i just quoted them, it is not me that you are indifference with it is those scriptures brother. The word ALL is inclusive it is not Open ended. When we are told they ALL DIED and Have not recieve the Promise then we need to believe it and try to adjust our understanding to fit those plain scriptures IMO>peace and love to you brother……………………………………..gene
Gene,Do you believe every single person was “troubled” upon hearing from the wise men. Must I point at those in the temple that were overjoyed instead?
Do you believe every single person in Judea went out to see Jesus?
It is clear that though the specific language you mention can be understood as you say; it is not mandated. It is clear from Scripture that Enoch did not die but instead was not. If Scripture mean he died it would have stated that in the genealogies that included him; and which said all others, but those still living in this world had died.
Why can you understand “all” is speaking in general in some Scriptures but not the ones you mention?
Kerwin……….I could ask you the same question why cant you understand that Jesus was the First to be resurected from the Grave from all of mankind to recieve the promised eternal life? To those who the word “ALL” (sometimes) is all inclusive and in other times does not meaning all inclusive of subject matter is changing Scriptures. You are trying to change scripture to meet your personal view of people still living after they die. No one has been resurected to eternal life yet but Jesus himself and latter comes the first resurrection of ALL that are asleep (DEAD) in Christ at his coming> as scriptures say brother,
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 26 2012,18:42) Kerwin……….I could ask you the same question why cant you understand that Jesus was the First to be resurected from the Grave from all of mankind to recieve the promised eternal life? To those who the word “ALL” (sometimes) is all inclusive and in other times does not meaning all inclusive of subject matter is changing Scriptures. You are trying to change scripture to meet your personal view of people still living after they die. No one has been resurected to eternal life yet but Jesus himself and latter comes the first resurrection of ALL that are asleep (DEAD) in Christ at his coming> as scriptures say brother, peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Gene,Even the angels come to God through Jesus the Messiah; who has been made King of all things in heaven and on earth.
Hi KW,
Romans 14:10-12
King James Version (KJV)10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
It shall happen.
Best before we meet HimQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2012,07:40) Hi KW,
Romans 14:10-12
King James Version (KJV)10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
It shall happen.
Best before we meet Him
Nick,It will happen and it is we watch our own life and doctrine, til he comes.
Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2012,08:14) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 26 2012,18:42) Kerwin……….I could ask you the same question why cant you understand that Jesus was the First to be resurected from the Grave from all of mankind to recieve the promised eternal life? To those who the word “ALL” (sometimes) is all inclusive and in other times does not meaning all inclusive of subject matter is changing Scriptures. You are trying to change scripture to meet your personal view of people still living after they die. No one has been resurected to eternal life yet but Jesus himself and latter comes the first resurrection of ALL that are asleep (DEAD) in Christ at his coming> as scriptures say brother, peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Gene,Even the angels come to God through Jesus the Messiah; who has been made King of all things in heaven and on earth.
Kerwin………..Brother you still are avoiding my question , do you believe those scriptures as written that i quoted?peace and love to you……………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 27 2012,19:12) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2012,08:14) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 26 2012,18:42) Kerwin……….I could ask you the same question why cant you understand that Jesus was the First to be resurected from the Grave from all of mankind to recieve the promised eternal life? To those who the word “ALL” (sometimes) is all inclusive and in other times does not meaning all inclusive of subject matter is changing Scriptures. You are trying to change scripture to meet your personal view of people still living after they die. No one has been resurected to eternal life yet but Jesus himself and latter comes the first resurrection of ALL that are asleep (DEAD) in Christ at his coming> as scriptures say brother, peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Gene,Even the angels come to God through Jesus the Messiah; who has been made King of all things in heaven and on earth.
Kerwin………..Brother you still are avoiding my question , do you believe those scriptures as written that i quoted?peace and love to you……………………………..gene
Gene;Jesus is the first over angels and men. He is certainly the first of the dead; who are but men that have perished.
You level a false accusation because you should know that Enoch is not said to have died; but instead Scripture declares he was not. For both his ancestors and children, who were not yet living, were declared dead. Scripture clearly means Enoch is not dead; but instead is not.
Kerwin…………Scripture there show that Enoch did not (TASTE DEATH) as i recall, it is not saying that he did not die now is it. But that the was “translated” from one State of LIFE to another STATE of DEATH , another words GOD just TOOK him out of Life and he is still waiting for a Resurrection back to life just as all who died are with the only exception of Jesus. Who is the FIRST BORN FROM the DEAD back to LIFE. IMO
peace and love to you and yorus………………………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
I believe that Enoch exists in heaven, along with Elijah and Moses. That understanding does make “firstborn from the dead” a hard read, though – and I don't have the answers.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2012,09:18) Hi Gene, I believe that Enoch exists in heaven, along with Elijah and Moses. That understanding does make “firstborn from the dead” a hard read, though – and I don't have the answers.
Mikeand Abraham,David,Daniel,Abel ,Samual and many others but it is their SOUL that is in heaven ,Christ says his father is the God of the living,not of the DEAD,this means that what God declared alive is alive and what is declare dead will be dead.
Christ is the first resurrected of the dead ,and has supremacy
Hi Pierre,
I think the majority of those who have died spend their time in Sheol/Hades, where except for certain rare circumstances, they are conscious of nothing at all. (One rare example would be Samuel being awakened at the request of Saul)
I believe this is where Abraham, Samuel, and David are. I believe that when they are finally resurrected, it will seem to them as if they closed their eyes for only a split second.
In this state, they are alive to God while technically being “dead” from our perspective.
I don't believe Enoch, Moses, and Elijah are in this state. I believe they were taken to heaven to be with God instead of being sent to wait in Sheol like all the rest. I believe this also happened to certain ones of Jesus' disciples, and was what he meant by “some of you will not taste death”. I think the “tasting death” part refers to spending time in Sheol awaiting the resurrection. And I believe some of Jesus' disciples went right to heaven upon their death, instead of waiting with the others in Sheol.
I believe Jesus is the “firstborn from the dead” because he actually went to Sheol, and then was awakened so God could break the hold Hades had on him. And Jesus is the firstborn FROM death, because the others like Enoch and Elijah never “tasted death” (spent time in Sheol) in the first place, and so were never “born FROM” death. Instead, they were taken up to heaven without ever going to Sheol like Jesus did.
This is just how I currently understand it.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2012,13:28) Hi Pierre, I think the majority of those who have died spend their time in Sheol/Hades, where except for certain rare circumstances, they are conscious of nothing at all. (One rare example would be Samuel being awakened at the request of Saul)
I believe this is where Abraham, Samuel, and David are. I believe that when they are finally resurrected, it will seem to them as if they closed their eyes for only a split second.
In this state, they are alive to God while technically being “dead” from our perspective.
I don't believe Enoch, Moses, and Elijah are in this state. I believe they were taken to heaven to be with God instead of being sent to wait in Sheol like all the rest. I believe this also happened to certain ones of Jesus' disciples, and was what he meant by “some of you will not taste death”. I think the “tasting death” part refers to spending time in Sheol awaiting the resurrection. And I believe some of Jesus' disciples went right to heaven upon their death, instead of waiting with the others in Sheol.
I believe Jesus is the “firstborn from the dead” because he actually went to Sheol, and then was awakened so God could break the hold Hades had on him. And Jesus is the firstborn FROM death, because the others like Enoch and Elijah never “tasted death” (spent time in Sheol) in the first place, and so were never “born FROM” death. Instead, they were taken up to heaven without ever going to Sheol like Jesus did.
This is just how I currently understand it.
peace,
mike
MikeI can not believe that any men is in heaven and all are dead (in a waiting stage)all men have sin none is worthy and fall short of the glory of God,
so it does not mater witch way a person die ,they all go in the sheol ,(grave for the dead bodies)but the soul will Go were God tells it to go ,some are favored and some are not in the eyes of God
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2012,01:58) Yes, some of the saved do and will dwell in heaven. Nick, did God take Enoch up to heaven?
To all;Genesis 5
King James Version (KJV)3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.Adam died!
6And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.Seth Died!
9And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.Enos died!
12And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:
13And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.Cainan died!
15And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.Mahalaleel died!
18And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.Jarod died!
21And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.Enoch did not die but instead was not as God took him!
25And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
26And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.Methuselah died!
28And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.Lamech died!
32And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Were still living.
In conclusion God declares that the others were either dead or still living but about Enoch he stated he was not for God took him.
Where did God take him that he was not and did not die?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 29 2012,09:12) Hi KW,
No details given.
So should we make assumptions?
Nick,This passage of Scripture does not tell us explicitly where God took Enoch. We know he was not found on earth afterwards and therefore is in another place.
Sheol is the land of the dead and Enoch does not dwell or Scripture would state he died instead of stating he was not because God took him.
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