Death

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,10:05)

Hi 94, If Moses and Elijah can talk with Jesus on the mountain why do you think Jesus slept till he was raised? Why do you not accept 1 Peter 3?

Hi Nick:

I accept all of the Word of God, including 1 Peter 3, but I do not believe that this scripture means that Jesus went and preached to anyone while he was dead in the grave, and especially, not to those who have already been judged by God and destroyed, and I have given you scripture, as to why.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Indeed his human spirit left as happens with all men at death[ecc 12]
The Spirit of Life did not leave him

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Judged and destroyed?
Judgement awaits men at the end of the millenium

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
The dead in Christ are all said to be asleep

3.1 Thessalonians 5:10
who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,10:19)

Hi 94, Indeed his human spirit left as happens with all men at death[ecc 12] The Spirit of Life did not leave him

Hi Nick:

Quote

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,10:19)

Hi 94, Indeed his human spirit left as happens with all men at death[ecc 12] The Spirit of Life did not leave him

Hi Nick:

The soul is alive to God, and is asleep until the resurrection, but the spirit goes to God, as you have given the scripture. The body goes back to the dust.

The body of Christ, however was not allowed to suffer corruption or rather, to go through this decaying process, but was raised from the dead, according to the scripture.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Indeed human life ends when the human spirit leaves
But we have the hope of the eternal Spirit abiding in us as the Spirit did in Him.

Yes his body did not undergo corruption

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,10:20)

Hi 94, Judged and destroyed? Judgement awaits men at the end of the millenium

Well, not the way I understand the scriptures.
Why would God judge them and them judge them again. Even in the secular courts, you can't be tried twice for the same crime.

The judgment was given to Adam and Eve which was:

Quote

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

That there will be a judgment for all those who have not been judged already after the 1000 year period is certain:
Jesus stated:

Quote

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Do you believe that those of Sodom will be judged again after the 1000 year reign? The scripture states this:

Quote

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

If they suffered the vengeance of eternal fire already, what additional punishment do you think is warranted?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Yes all suffer because of Adam.

You pick exceptions to establish a principle?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,11:44)

Hi 94, Yes all suffer because of Adam. You pick exceptions to establish a principle?

Hi Nick:

Adam is responsible for allowing sin to enter into the world, but all of us individually, are responsible to God for our own sins.

We cannot blame Adam for the suffering.

There is so much in the Wisdom of God as to why He allowed this to happen.

The scriptures state that God made man in His own image. We could not become like him unless there was somewhere to put His Word into practice, and when we come to Him through the Lord Jesus it is not because of how good or bad we have been, but that we have believed God with a repentant heart.
Consequently, none will go around heaven bragging about how they inherited eternal life. And we are called into a relationship with him, and we have the freedom to accept Him or reject Him.

I have given you scripture to support what I believe to be the truth, and if I haven't tell me where I have failed to do so.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Nick:

You made the following statement:

Quote

Hi 94, Judged and destroyed? Judgement awaits men at the end of the millenium

Does that mean that judgment awaits “all men” at the end of the millenium or not? If so, what I have stated are exceptions to this?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

hi 94,
Repentance is the start but men must obey the command to be reborn of water and the Spirit.

Gen 19
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; 25 and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Jude
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The eternal fire is only entered by the second death after the judgement-twice dead

Jude

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
No exceptions
Jude is prophetic

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Adam submitted to another god and we are his kin.
Only in Christ can we become overcomers and be set free.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,12:35)

hi 94, Repentance is the start but men must obey the command to be reborn of water and the Spirit. Gen 19 23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.  24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;  25 and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. Jude  7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The eternal fire is only entered by the second death after the judgement-twice dead Jude 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.  11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.  12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Hi Nick:

Well, let us look at Adam and Eve's case. God told them that in the day that they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would surely die.

They did eat, and they did die spiritually, and then when they sinned, God rendered the judgment which included physical death. That was their judgment.

Now, with each of us, the scriptures state that we were dead in our trespasses, and the scriptures state that “the wages of sin is death”, and so, that is the judgment that was pronounced, but Jesus came and paid the price for the judgment that was against us, and through him we can have eternal life, and death has no more dominion over us.

However, those who were spiritually dead, and died in their sins did not accept the fact that God had paid the judgment that was against them through the person of Jesus Christ, died the physical death spirtually separated from God.

Consequently, they will have to come before the judgment seat of Christ, and judged according to their works, and die the second death, and this will be eternal separation from God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,12:36)

Hi 94, No exceptions Jude is prophetic

Hi Nick:

So, Sodom and Gommorah have not yet suffered the vengeance of eternal fire?

Jude is prophetic?

Jude is also scriptural.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,12:35)

hi 94, Repentance is the start but men must obey the command to be reborn of water and the Spirit. Gen 19 23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.  24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;  25 and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. Jude  7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The eternal fire is only entered by the second death after the judgement-twice dead Jude 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.  11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.  12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Hi Nick:

The commandment given by the Lord is true, and without exception, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Those in the OT were not born again because Jesus had not yet been raised from the dead, but they will be born again when Jesus comes for the church. The sacrifice that our Lord made was for them as well as for us. Their sins have been forgiven and washed away by the blood of the lamb.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
They died physically within a DAY.
No spiritual death is recorded

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ May 05 2014,13:04)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2014,12:36) Hi 94, No exceptions Jude is prophetic Hi Nick: So, Sodom and Gommorah have not yet suffered the vengeance of eternal fire? Jude is prophetic? Jude is also scriptural. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi 94,
Yes
Yes

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
You say
“Those in the OT were not born again because Jesus had not yet been raised from the dead, but they will be born again when Jesus comes for the church. The sacrifice that our Lord made was for them as well as for us. Their sins have been forgiven and washed away by the blood of the lamb.”

Some as recorded but not all

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