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Hi ,
I love this scripture in Ecclesiastes 12.6f
” Remember him before the silver cord is broken
and the golden bowl is crushed,
the pitcher by the well is shattered
And the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
then the dust will return to the earth as it was
and the spirit will return to God who gave it”There is a lot of beauty hidden here. Who can enlighten us?
Ok,
It has to be to do with comparing natural life with drawing water at the well.
So the bucket [Golden bowl] is suspended in the well by a rope [Silver cord] over a pulley[Wheel]and the water is kept in the container[Pitcher].
So is life drawing water from the Well of God? I guess the people had to draw water every day to live so life is one day at a time.
Death means all of the implements are destroyed. It is then irreversible in the natural sense. Even if some of those things survived you might figure out a way of getting to that water.So the Golden Bowl is Gold because it touches the source of the water-God.
The cord is silver because it also comes close to that source. The pulley changes the direction of the rope from the vertical plane to the horizontal plane so it enables the gift to transfer from the heavenly to the earthly plane. Looking down that well is confusing but on planet earth we can understand and use the water.
We are the fragile clay vessel which is our body, the pitcher. It cannot go down the well itself as it is too weak and small. It is useless unless it contains water but that function is vital too. When it breaks it spills that water on land and it does not return down the well but waits in the land for the resurrection.
Jesus told us that the water he gives can become a fountain within us leaping up to provide eternal life[zoe].So we would no longer need the well and even if the pitcher broke there would still be eternal life here for us.That is a start so who will correct or add?
Hi.
Many misunderstand death giving too much importance to this weak body, this tent or veil as if real life was all about it.
This is only natural life, not eternal life.
If we understand baptism we will know that our body is already dead just waiting to be transformed.
Our grain of wheat has already fallen to the earth and died that new life may grow in us to eternal life.
We have passed over already from death to life. It is no longer I that lives but Christ that lives in me.Mk12.26
” ..'I am the God of Abraham , the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob'?
He is not the God of the dead but of the living;you are greatly mistaken”
These men still live and that is not an allegory.Their bodies are dead and buried but they are alive now according to Jesus Christ.
Jesus also said Abraham rejoiced to SEE his day.
Lk 16 19 shows Abraham alive in spirit and able to communicate with all the dead, good or bad, and awaiting resurrection.
Paul was impatient to put off his tent and enter eternal life.Stephen died but lived in Jesus.
Hi Ps 146.3
“Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
His spirit departs,He returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish”
So he is not his spirit which gives him life.
He is not his soul with which he thinks and loves and which sleeps in death.
He is dust.Gen” Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return”
Ps 139.14 ” I will give thanks to Thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;wonderful are thy works and my soul knows it very well”
Hi ,
Lk 16.19f has to be considered when discussing this subject.It is scripture and was spoken by Yeshua. It tells us mercy ceases after lives have ended as far as the OT is concerned. It tells of two possible resting places under the OT prior to the resurrection.Both the rich man and the poor man had died. Their bodies were buried.
Yet we are told that abilities we would normally only regard as physically possible seem to remain.
The rich man is said to have eyes that see. He could hear and think and understand and reason. He suffered torment and thirst and he could speak. He asked if he could have water to cool his tongue.
Abraham too could hear and speak and understand and reason.Eclles 12.7 tells us our spirit returns to God. So what is left is soul. The obvious question is does our soul retain senses and awareness without the physical body?
What do people think?
cont.
The 'soul' entity of Samuel brought up by the witch of Endor in 1 Sam 28 would fit this idea.Samuel was well dead and his body had rotted away
Yet it was Samuel and he did have a body shape that was visible and recognisable, at least to the witch. He could recognise Saul, hear, reason and speak.
?Hi,
“Sheol” means “underworld”, the place where people descend to at death in my concordance. Amos 9.2 suggests it is in the earth, is expansive and expandable [Hab 2.5Prov 27.20]and has various departments[Dt 32.22, Ez 32].Many Psalms suggest it is the after death abode of the Soul [Pss 16.10, 30.3, 49.5, 86.13 ,139.8]and Ps 16 suggests the place includes “Hades”[Acts 2.27-33]as does Ps 49.14-15 and is also known as the “pit”[ps 16.10,103.4 Jb 33.18] Ez 32 tells us it is for jews and gentiles too.
Ez 32.19,21,25,28,29,30, suggests a place of rest or soul sleep as does Ps 139.8.
ps
Is 14 9-15 reinforces that
Sheol is beneath us [v9]
Houses dead gentiles [v9]
Includes destruction of the body[v11]
Has compartments[v 15]
Is a place of stones[v 19]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2004,16:32) Hi ,
I love this scripture in Ecclesiastes 12.6f
” Remember him before the silver cord is broken
and the golden bowl is crushed,
the pitcher by the well is shattered
And the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
then the dust will return to the earth as it was
and the spirit will return to God who gave it”There is a lot of beauty hidden here. Who can enlighten us?
Interesting scripture.Some people hold the view that we are attached to our bodies by a cord and at death the cord is broken.
I always thought that view was taken from New Age teaching, but it could have originated from this scripture.
Hi,
Another related scripture is Jer 2.13
” They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, to hew themselves cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water”Hi B,
You may find this helpful though it mainly pertains to the first death and not the second-the fate of those who do not fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul-in the Lake of fire.Matthew 10:28
28Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.In Revelation we hear of the 'Second Death', which is all about the final destruction of unrepentant sinners, after which there is no hope for restoration. The Second Death is permanent destruction. It is eternal destruction. Jesus, in the Gospels, says that men who die are sleeping. The first death is a sleep to Jesus, because God is going to resurrect all those who sleep in the dust of the earth back to life on the Resurrection Day.
Jesus is saying here to be afraid of the Second Death. This is the death to fear. If someone kills you today, all they can do is make you suffer the first death. All they can do is put you to 'sleep'. All they can do is temporarily put you out. God will give you your life back at the Resurrection, and give you the gift of immortality if you have accepted Christ.
However, if you have not accepted Christ, when you are raised back to life at the Resurrection, God will execute on you the Judgment of Gehenna. He will destroy not only your body, but your very life will be destroyed. God will not see you as sleeping, but will see you as 'no more'. Jesus is telling us in this verse that no man has the power to destroy your life forever, only God has the power to destroy your life forever. Therefore, fear the fearsome power of God's wrath.
It is interesting to note here that the word 'soul' is translated from the Greek word “psuche” (psoo-khay'). In the King James Version, “psuche” is translated 'soul' 58 times, and 'life' 40 times. In the New American Standard Version, “psuche” is translated 'soul' 33 times, 'souls' 14 times, 'life' 36 times, and 'lives' 7 times. Therefore, this word, I think, based on the context of what Jesus is saying here in Matthew 10:28, may be better understood if it were translated as life, reading it:
28Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the life. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both life and body in Gehenna.
The point is that only God has the fearsome power of ending one's life forever.
Matthew 16:25-26
25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man, if he will gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?What will a man have if his very LIFE is taken away from him? What will you have without your LIFE?
God will take away the life of un-repentant sinners.
The punishment for sin is death (yes, it REALLY is).
In Jesus,
Berean2005
Hi B,
There is not one resurrection day but two-separated by 1000 yrs[Rev 20 2-8]. Why change “soul”to “life” to fit your view of the second death?Quote (berean2005 @ June 17 2005,02:03) Matthew 10:28
28Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.In Revelation we hear of the 'Second Death', which is all about the final destruction of unrepentant sinners, after which there is no hope for restoration. The Second Death is permanent destruction. It is eternal destruction. Jesus, in the Gospels, says that men who die are sleeping. The first death is a sleep to Jesus, because God is going to resurrect all those who sleep in the dust of the earth back to life on the Resurrection Day.
Jesus is saying here to be afraid of the Second Death. This is the death to fear. If someone kills you today, all they can do is make you suffer the first death. All they can do is put you to 'sleep'. All they can do is temporarily put you out. God will give you your life back at the Resurrection, and give you the gift of immortality if you have accepted Christ.
However, if you have not accepted Christ, when you are raised back to life at the Resurrection, God will execute on you the Judgment of Gehenna. He will destroy not only your body, but your very life will be destroyed. God will not see you as sleeping, but will see you as 'no more'. Jesus is telling us in this verse that no man has the power to destroy your life forever, only God has the power to destroy your life forever. Therefore, fear the fearsome power of God's wrath.
It is interesting to note here that the word 'soul' is translated from the Greek word “psuche” (psoo-khay'). In the King James Version, “psuche” is translated 'soul' 58 times, and 'life' 40 times. In the New American Standard Version, “psuche” is translated 'soul' 33 times, 'souls' 14 times, 'life' 36 times, and 'lives' 7 times. Therefore, this word, I think, based on the context of what Jesus is saying here in Matthew 10:28, may be better understood if it were translated as life, reading it:
28Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the life. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both life and body in Gehenna.
The point is that only God has the fearsome power of ending one's life forever.
Matthew 16:25-26
25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man, if he will gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?What will a man have if his very LIFE is taken away from him? What will you have without your LIFE?
God will take away the life of un-repentant sinners.
The punishment for sin is death (yes, it REALLY is).
In Jesus,
Berean2005
Hi,
“Accepting Jesus”does not save anyone. What does the term mean? Does it mean to just recognise Jesus as Lord? Where did the apostles in Acts demonstrate this “form of salvation” for us?Hi,
This forum also relates to life and death. Ecclesiastes takes a very physical view of life, while true, and that perspective has limitations.Yes, Eccl 12:6 is a very beautiful poetic scripture.
We are urged to remember our Creator “before the silver cord is removed, and the golden bowl gets crushed, and the jar at the spring is broken, and the waterwheel for the cistern has been crushed.” (Ecclesiastes 12:6)
The “silver cord” may be the spinal cord. Death is certain when this marvelous pathway of impulses to the brain is irreparably damaged.
The “golden bowl” may denote the brain, contained in the bowllike cranium, to which the spinal cord is attached. Golden for preciousness, the brain when broken down spells death.
“The jar at the spring” is the heart, which receives the stream of blood and sends it out again for circulation through the body. At death, the heart becomes like a broken jar, shattered at the spring because it can no longer receive, contain, and pump out the blood vital for the body’s nourishment and refreshment.
The ‘crushed waterwheel for the cistern’ ceases to turn, ending circulation of life-sustaining blood.
The congregator added: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Ecclesiastes 12:7)
With the “waterwheel” crushed, the human body, originally made out of dust from the ground, returns to the dust. (Genesis 2:7; 3:19) The soul dies because the spirit, or life-force, given by God returns to and resides with our Creator.—Ezekiel 18:4, 20; James 2:26.
Hi,
You must gain the fountain leaping up to eternal life [Jn 4.13-14]before the access to the water in the well ceases for us individually.
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