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Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,18:07) T, Quote What that suppose to mean one FROM,what One who knows good and evil.
Quote And which Hebrew text The Hebrew.
Quote And how does. It change the outcome God is one and the world was created through his own spirit and his own word — not some other God/s.
Eternal life is knowing the Father (who is “The only True God”) and the Son.
The commandments of God are summed up in two:
Love of God (the one and only true God) and love of neighbor.
So, we have to Know God, and we have to Know our neighbor (humanity). Otherwise we do not know the Fathers will, or the Son. And (“Do it to one of the least of these [people] — and you do it to me”)
2besee……I agree with EDJ, good post brother, unto us and Jesus there is only one true God. All other so-called Gods are false Gods. IMOPeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,02:22) Quote (abe @ July 08 2013,18:47) Quote (2besee @ July 07 2013,14:43) Hi Abe
So the “sons of God” are the spirits of God (seven)?
Hi 2b,Rev.16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things;
angel of the waters
Spirit of the Waters.
There are “7” Spirits of God.
Of the Water.
One of Seven.
Peace brother………….
Abe,
You could be right.
But where does the Holy Spirit fit in with that? Did you say that the seven make up the one?
Hi 2b,Rev.3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
He who HAS the Seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this:
Rev.5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
HAVING seven horns and seven eyes, which are the Seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
(Quote)
But where does the Holy Spirit fit in with that? Did you say that the seven make up the one?Acts2:33
Strong'sTransliterationGreekEnglishMorphology
3588 [e]tēτῇBy theArt-DFS
1188 [e]dexiaδεξιᾷright handAdj-DFS
3767 [e]ounοὖνthereforeConj
3588 [e]touτοῦ–Art-GMS
2316 [e]theouθεοῦof GodN-GMS
5312 [e]hypsōtheisὑψωθεὶςhaving been exalted,V-APP-NMS
3588 [e]tēnτήν–Art-AFS
5037 [e]teτεandPrtcl
1860 [e]epangelianἐπαγγελίαν[the] promiseN-AFS
3588 [e]touτοῦof theArt-GNS
4151 [e]pneumatosπνεύματοςSpirit
3588 [e]touτοῦ–Art-GMS *Of The**40 [e]hagiouἁγίουHoly,Adj-GNS
2983 [e]labōnλαβὼνhaving receivedV-APA-NMS
3844 [e]paraπαρὰfromPrep
3588 [e]touτοῦtheArt-GMS
3962 [e]patrosπατρὸςFather,N-GMS
1632 [e]execheenἐξέχεενhe poured outV-AIA-3S
3778 [e]toutoτοῦτοthisDPro-ANS
3739 [e]hoὃwhichRelPro-ANS
4771 [e]hymeisὑμεῖςyouPPro-N2P
2532 [e]kaiκαὶbothConj
991 [e]blepeteβλέπετεbeholdV-PIA-2P
2532 [e]kaiκαὶandConj
191 [e]akoueteἀκούετεhear.V-PIA-2P*40 [e]hagiouἁγίουHoly,Adj-GNS
Definition: set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.
NASB Translation
Holy (92), holy (62), Holy of Holies (1), holy one (5), holy ones (1), holy place (7), most holy (1), saint (1), saints (59), saints' (1), sanctuary (2).saints (59),
3844 [e]paraπαρὰfromPrep
3588 [e]touτοῦtheArt-GMS *of the*
3962 [e]patrosπατρὸςFather,From of the Father.
he hath shed forth this, which ye now See and Hear.
Jn.5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Matt.16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Peace brother….
Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,17:19) Kerwin, As you quoted from a Jewish Bible, this is from “Outreach Judaism” and the understanding of the word “Elohim” to them.
“There is a fundamental principal regarding the many names of the Almighty as they appear in the Torah – they are exalted descriptions of the God of Israel. The name Elohim, which is not an exception to this rule, comes from the Hebrew root el, which means “might” or “power.” This common root appears in a variety of words throughout the Jewish Scriptures. For example, we find this word used in the famous opening words to Psalm 29, (havu la'donai b'nai eylim). This chapter is well known because this Psalm is joyously sung in every synagogue as the Torah scroll is returned into the ark following a congregational reading. What do these noble words mean?
“Ascribe to the Lord, O sons of the mighty. Ascribe to the Lord glory and strength” (Psalm 29:1)
With these passages in mind, we have a deeper understanding of the name Elohim. The pagan mind ascribed a separate and distinct god for each of the powers in the world which it observed, and on whom it depended. The nations gazed upon the life-giving and perplexing energy emanating from the sun and the rain, and they worshiped the many gods who they believed controlled these forces. They craved an abundant harvest and boundless fertility, and they venerated each god who they believed governed each of these abodes. The ancients were mystified by the powers which sustained them and awestruck by the forces that terrified them, and venerated each with elaborate rituals and oftentimes gruesome rites in order to “appease the gods.”
The Torah conveys a radically different message for mankind. All the life-sustaining forces in the universe, all the power that man can behold, emanate from the One Master of the world, One Creator of the universe – the Lord of Hosts is His name. This grand message is contained in the name of God, Elohim. All the forces of the world emerged from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Therefore, the God of Israel alone – Elohim – is worthy of our worship and devotion.It is for this reason that the Torah employs the word Elohim almost exclusively as the name of God throughout the first two chapters of Genesis. In these opening passages of the Book of Genesis, the Almighty is creating all the powers and forces which stir and sustain the universe.
Therefore, the nation of Israel, to whom God revealed Himself at the foot of Mount Sinai, knew nothing about a plurality of persons in the godhead. No fact could be more firmly established once all of our sacred literature – both canonical and rabbinical – is used as our eternal guide. This matter is indisputable.”
2besee,The Jews are not completely mistaken but during Abraham's time the Canaanites had a most high and uncreated god named El(singular). Translating that name to English, it becomes God, a name we use to this day to refer to the Almighty. Elohim is the plural of El and can be used to refer to as a god magnified, which I believe is the sum of what your quote claims. Elohim is also used for the heavenly host, who the pagans worship in foolishness. A third use is for the people of God; including humans, who were not yet created.
Jews, in general, believe God was speaking to his angels; though details differ.
Note: replaced incorrect word.
Quote (abe @ July 08 2013,13:14) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2013,21:49) Quote (abe @ July 07 2013,23:17) Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2013,13:37) To all, I am still sticking to the teaching that Jehovah speaking to his team gods stated let us make humanity in the image and likeness of team gods.
Yawheh(Jehovah) has no outer likeness but those angels that visited Lot were said to look like humans. The reverse but true statement is that humans bear the likeness of certain angels. Yawheh has the inner likeness of righteousness and holiness and Scripture declares humanity was created upright before he went in search of many schemes. So man was created in the image and likeness of team gods.
Hi Kerwin,(Quote)
So man was created in the image and likeness of team gods.Job1:6 Now there was a day when the *sons of God* came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job2:1 Again there was a day when the *sons of God* came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Why do you call them *gods* ?
Peace brother..
Abe,Tehillim 8:5
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)5 (6) For Thou hast made him a little lower than elohim [or Elohim, Gn 1:27], and hast crowned him with kavod and hadar.
The writer of Hebrews translates Elohim to angels.
Hi Kerwin,(Quote)
ehillim 8:5
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)5 (6) For Thou hast made him a little lower than elohim [or Elohim, Gn 1:27], and hast crowned him with kavod and hadar.
The writer of Hebrews translates Elohim to angels.
I know it is Hard to Believe? (understand)
Peace brother…
Abe,I have looked into these matters and Scripture teaches us God called those that received his law, his children, and later he called his children elohim. I am not going to disagree with his choice in these manner and I am not foolish enough to confuse his children with him, even though they are also called gods.
Deuteronomy 14:1
King James Version (KJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
Psalm 82:6
King James Version (KJV)6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
T,
To you, God NEEDED HELP to create the universe and the world. To me and others, God is the ALMIGHTY, and I believe the scriptures when they tell us that GOD ALONE created the Heavens and the Earth. No need to doubt.
I like the words of the early church father Irenaeus. Quote:
The world was not formed by angels, or by any other being, contrary to the will of the most high God, but was made by the Father through the Word.
1. Those, moreover, who say that the world was formed by angels, or by any other maker of it, contrary to the will of Him who is the Supreme Father, err first of all in this very point, that they maintain that angels formed such and so mighty a creation, contrary to the will of the Most High God. This would imply that angels were more powerful than God; or if not so, that He was either careless, or inferior, or paid no regard to those things which took place among His own possessions, whether they turned out ill or well, so that He might drive away and prevent the one, while He praised and rejoiced over the other. But if one would not ascribe such conduct even to a man of any ability, how much less to God
2. Next let them tell us whether these things have been formed within the limits which are contained by Him, and in His proper territory, or in regions belonging to others, and lying beyond Him? But if they say [that these things were done] beyond Him, then all the absurdities already mentioned will face them, and the Supreme God will be enclosed by that which is beyond Him, in which also it will be necessary that He should find His end. If, on the other hand, [these things were done] within His own proper territory, it will be very idle to say that the world was thus formed within His proper territory against His will by angels who are themselves under His power, or by any other being, as if either He Himself did not behold all things which take place among His own possessions, or was not aware of the things to be done by angels.
3. If, however, [the things referred to were done] not against His will, but with His concurrence and knowledge, as some [of these men] think, the angels, or the Former of the world [whoever that may have been], will no longer be the causes of that formation, but the will of God. For if He is the Former of the world, He too made the angels, or at least was the cause of their creation; and He will be regarded as having made the world who prepared the causes of its formation. Although they maintain that the angels were made by a long succession downwards, or that the Former of the world [sprang] from the Supreme Father, as Basilides asserts; nevertheless that which is the cause of those things which have been made will still be traced to Him who was the Author of such a succession. [The case stands] just as regards success in war, which is ascribed to the king who prepared those things which are the cause of victory; and, in like manner, the creation of any state, or of any work, is referred to him who prepared materials for the accomplishment of those results which were afterwards brought about. Wherefore, we do not say that it was the axe which cut the wood, or the saw which divided it; but one would very properly say that the man cut and divided it who formed the axe and the saw for this purpose, and [who also formed] at a much earlier date all the tools by which the axe and the saw themselves were formed. With justice, therefore, according to an analogous process of reasoning, the Father of all will be declared the Former of this world, and not the angels, nor any other [so-called] former of the world, other than He who was its Author, and had formerly been the cause of the preparation for a creation of this kind.
4. This manner of speech may perhaps be plausible or persuasive to those who know not God, and who liken Him to needy human beings, and to those who cannot immediately and without assistance form anything, but require many instrumentalities to produce what they intend. But it will not be regarded as at all probable by those who know that God stands in need of nothing, and that He created and made all things by His Word, while He neither required angels to assist Him in the production of those things which are made, nor of any power greatly inferior to Himself, and ignorant of the Father, nor of any defect or ignorance, in order that he who should know Him might become man. But He Himself in Himself, after a fashion which we can neither describe nor conceive, predestinating all things, formed them as He pleased, bestowing harmony on all things, and assigning them their own place, and the beginning of their creation. In this way He conferred on spiritual things a spiritual and invisible nature, on super-celestial things a celestial, on angels an angelical, on animals an animal, on beings that swim a nature suited to the water, and on those that live on the land one fitted for the land— on all, in short, a nature suitable to the character of the life assigned them— while He formed all things that were made by His Word that never wearies.
5. For this is a peculiarity of the pre-eminence of God, not to stand in need of other instruments for the creation of those things which are summoned into existence. His own Word is both suitable and sufficient for the formation of all things, even as John, the disciple of the Lord, declares regarding Him: “All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made.” John 1:3 Now, among the “all things” our world must be embraced. It too, therefore, was made by His Word, as Scripture tells us in the book of Genesis that He made all things connected with our world by His Word. David also expresses the same truth [when he says] “For He spoke, and they were made; He commanded, and they were created.” Whom, therefore, shall we believe as to the creation of the world— these heretics who have been mentioned that prate so foolishly and inconsistently on the subject, or the disciples of the Lord, and Moses, who was both a faithful servant of God and a prophet? He at first narrated the formation of the world in these words: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” Genesis 1:1 and all other things in succession; but neither gods nor angels [had any share in the work].
Now, that this God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Paul the apostle also has declared, [saying,] “There is one God, the Father, who is above all, and through all things, and in us all.” I have indeed proved already that there is only one God; but I shall further demonstrate this from the apostles themselves, and from the discourses of the Lord. For what sort of conduct would it be, were we to forsake the utterances of the prophets, of the Lord, and of the apostles, that we might give heed to these persons, who speak not a word of sense?
Well put.
I notice that you seem to consider yourself to be the one who has all the truth, and that others do not know God or the Son, because they do not follow your doctrine. You are just like the JWs who say the same thing, and their doctrine is EXACTLY like yours. You follow the teachings of men, which is where you would have got the idea that God needed help to create. Would that be correct?
*Edit: Incorrect church father name (Not Justin Martyr but Irenaeus)
Quote (2besee @ July 09 2013,03:51) T, To you, God NEEDED HELP to create the universe and the world. To me and others, God is the ALMIGHTY, and I believe the scriptures when they tell us that GOD ALONE created the Heavens and the Earth. No need to doubt.
I like the words of the early church father Irenaeus. Quote:
The world was not formed by angels, or by any other being, contrary to the will of the most high God, but was made by the Father through the Word.
1. Those, moreover, who say that the world was formed by angels, or by any other maker of it, contrary to the will of Him who is the Supreme Father, err first of all in this very point, that they maintain that angels formed such and so mighty a creation, contrary to the will of the Most High God. This would imply that angels were more powerful than God; or if not so, that He was either careless, or inferior, or paid no regard to those things which took place among His own possessions, whether they turned out ill or well, so that He might drive away and prevent the one, while He praised and rejoiced over the other. But if one would not ascribe such conduct even to a man of any ability, how much less to God
2. Next let them tell us whether these things have been formed within the limits which are contained by Him, and in His proper territory, or in regions belonging to others, and lying beyond Him? But if they say [that these things were done] beyond Him, then all the absurdities already mentioned will face them, and the Supreme God will be enclosed by that which is beyond Him, in which also it will be necessary that He should find His end. If, on the other hand, [these things were done] within His own proper territory, it will be very idle to say that the world was thus formed within His proper territory against His will by angels who are themselves under His power, or by any other being, as if either He Himself did not behold all things which take place among His own possessions, or was not aware of the things to be done by angels.
3. If, however, [the things referred to were done] not against His will, but with His concurrence and knowledge, as some [of these men] think, the angels, or the Former of the world [whoever that may have been], will no longer be the causes of that formation, but the will of God. For if He is the Former of the world, He too made the angels, or at least was the cause of their creation; and He will be regarded as having made the world who prepared the causes of its formation. Although they maintain that the angels were made by a long succession downwards, or that the Former of the world [sprang] from the Supreme Father, as Basilides asserts; nevertheless that which is the cause of those things which have been made will still be traced to Him who was the Author of such a succession. [The case stands] just as regards success in war, which is ascribed to the king who prepared those things which are the cause of victory; and, in like manner, the creation of any state, or of any work, is referred to him who prepared materials for the accomplishment of those results which were afterwards brought about. Wherefore, we do not say that it was the axe which cut the wood, or the saw which divided it; but one would very properly say that the man cut and divided it who formed the axe and the saw for this purpose, and [who also formed] at a much earlier date all the tools by which the axe and the saw themselves were formed. With justice, therefore, according to an analogous process of reasoning, the Father of all will be declared the Former of this world, and not the angels, nor any other [so-called] former of the world, other than He who was its Author, and had formerly been the cause of the preparation for a creation of this kind.
4. This manner of speech may perhaps be plausible or persuasive to those who know not God, and who liken Him to needy human beings, and to those who cannot immediately and without assistance form anything, but require many instrumentalities to produce what they intend. But it will not be regarded as at all probable by those who know that God stands in need of nothing, and that He created and made all things by His Word, while He neither required angels to assist Him in the production of those things which are made, nor of any power greatly inferior to Himself, and ignorant of the Father, nor of any defect or ignorance, in order that he who should know Him might become man. But He Himself in Himself, after a fashion which we can neither describe nor conceive, predestinating all things, formed them as He pleased, bestowing harmony on all things, and assigning them their own place, and the beginning of their creation. In this way He conferred on spiritual things a spiritual and invisible nature, on super-celestial things a celestial, on angels an angelical, on animals an animal, on beings that swim a nature suited to the water, and on those that live on the land one fitted for the land— on all, in short, a nature suitable to the character of the life assigned them— while He formed all things that were made by His Word that never wearies.
5. For this is a peculiarity of the pre-eminence of God, not to stand in need of other instruments for the creation of those things which are summoned into existence. His own Word is both suitable and sufficient for the formation of all things, even as John, the disciple of the Lord, declares regarding Him: “All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made.” John 1:3 Now, among the “all things” our world must be embraced. It too, therefore, was made by His Word, as Scripture tells us in the book of Genesis that He made all things connected with our world by His Word. David also expresses the same truth [when he says] “For He spoke, and they were made; He commanded, and they were created.” Whom, therefore, shall we believe as to the creation of the world— these heretics who have been mentioned that prate so foolishly and inconsistently on the subject, or the disciples of the Lord, and Moses, who was both a faithful servant of God and a prophet? He at first narrated the formation of the world in these words: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” Genesis 1:1 and all other things in succession; but neither gods nor angels [had any share in the work].
Now, that this God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Paul the apostle also has declared, [saying,] “There is one God, the Father, who is above all, and through all things, and in us all.” I have indeed proved already that there is only one God; but I shall further demonstrate this from the apostles themselves, and from the discourses of the Lord. For what sort of conduct would it be, were we to forsake the utterances of the prophets, of the Lord, and of the apostles, that we might give heed to these persons, who speak not a word of sense?
Well put.
I notice that you seem to consider yourself to be the one who has all the truth, and that others do not know God or the Son, because they do not follow your doctrine. You are just like the JWs who say the same thing, and their doctrine is EXACTLY like yours. You follow the teachings of men, which is where you would have got the idea that God needed help to create. Would that be correct?
*Edit: Incorrect church father name (Not Justin Martyr but Irenaeus)
2beeQuote T, To you, God NEEDED HELP to create the universe and the world. To me and others, God is the ALMIGHTY, and I believe the scriptures when they tell us that GOD ALONE created the Heavens and the Earth. No need to doubt.
this is what i never said ;but what the scriptures are saying ,WHAT YOU LIKE OR ME OR ANYONE DOES NOT CHANGE THAT FACT ,”THAT GOD ALMIGHTY DOES THINGS THROUGH OTHERS ,LIKE USE MOSES TO BRING THE ISRAELITE S OUT OF EGYPT,LIKE USE THE JUDGES LIKE SAMSON,GIDEON, AND MANY OTHERS TO SAVE ISRAEL FROM THERE ENEMIES ,HE ALSO AS USED JESUS CHRIST TO SAVE MEN FROM SIN,AND ALSO SAVE OTHERS THROUGH THE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL WRITTEN BY CHRIST APOSTLES ,
AND THIS IS WERE IT SAYS ALSO;Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
IT IS NOT A MATTER OF LIKE IT BUT OF TRUTH ACCORDING TO GOD NOT MEN ,
(for your info i hav read the entire story on all the church early fathers some 30 years ago ,i am still sorry I did so)
Kerwin, Abe,
Where does it say that Angels were CREATED?
Man (Adam and Eve as the beginning of mankind) were created.
Jesus was born (the firstborn over all creation – from Mary and from death).
Saints are a result of creation, and are then adopted (and like Jesus are also born again)I think that maybe Angels would have been produced from God – rather than created – as spiritual and separable attributes, and messengers between man and God, rather than being created beings. I think there is a difference.
I'm only thinking.
Quote (2besee @ July 07 2013,18:54) Hi Mike, “One of US” is not in the Hebrew.
It is simply “from”.Behold the man has become one from knowing God and evil.
The word IS there, 2B. It's just that the concordance James Strong put together is incomplete.I don't know if you can find a Goodrick and Kohlenberger (GK) concordance online or not, but if you can, you'll see a word numbered H5646 in that concordance. Strong does not have a number for that word, which means “us, our”.
This is from a website I found while looking for a GK concordance online:
Unique numbering system developed by Goodrick and Kohlenberger (G/K) eliminates the inherent gaps, flaws, and inaccuracies of the old Strong’s numbering system.
You can find this comment here, and even order your own GK concordance if you'd like.
Thanks to my friend Pierre, I already have a GK concordance, and I can see the word “us” is there in Gen 3:22.
But just in case you don't want to take my word for it, I'll give you a couple other scriptures where that Hebrew word is found, and you will be able to check those against the site you linked for me. You'll see that in these scriptures, the word “us”, or “our” is also omitted in the Strong numbers off to the left on your site. Strong just simply didn't give this Hebrew word a number for some reason. Anyway, here are the scriptures………. let me know if you want to check out even more of them:
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness……….Genesis 5:29
He named him Noah, saying, “This one will bring us comfort from our labor and from the painful toil of our hands because of the ground that the Lord has cursed.”Check those two out on your site, and you'll see what I mean.
At any rate, Gen 3:22 does indeed say, “the man has become like ONE OF US, knowing good from evil”. This matches perfectly with Gen 3:5, where Satan said the man would “become like the gods, knowing good from evil”.
It also lets you know who the “US” and “OUR” is in Gen 1:26. But only if you are willing to see it, 2B. You must first take off the 21st century blinders, and begin to understand words like “el” and “theos” for what they meant WHEN the scriptures were written. Only then will you be able to see the scriptures for what they really teach – as opposed to trying to protect those scriptures from themselves by pretending they are 100% monotheistic.
But that will be up to you, won't it?
Quote (2besee @ July 09 2013,07:42) Kerwin, Abe, Where does it say that Angels were CREATED?
Man (Adam and Eve as the beginning of mankind) were created.
Jesus was born (the firstborn over all creation – from Mary and from death).
Saints are a result of creation, and are then adopted (and like Jesus are also born again)I think that maybe Angels would have been produced from God – rather than created – as spiritual and separable attributes, and messengers between man and God, rather than being created beings. I think there is a difference.
I'm only thinking.
2besee,In the beginning God created the heavens…
angels are to heaven as man is to earth.
To All,
God created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them. That would include angels, right?
Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,05:19) Kerwin, As you quoted from a Jewish Bible, this is from “Outreach Judaism” and the understanding of the word “Elohim” to them.
“The name Elohim, which is not an exception to this rule, comes from the Hebrew root el, which means “might” or “power.”
Hmmmm…………..Where have we all heard this before……….. about a thousand times?
Oh that's right………. I keep saying it over and over!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2013,14:45) Quote (2besee @ July 07 2013,18:54) Hi Mike, “One of US” is not in the Hebrew.
It is simply “from”.Behold the man has become one from knowing God and evil.
The word IS there, 2B. It's just that the concordance James Strong put together is incomplete.I don't know if you can find a Goodrick and Kohlenberger (GK) concordance online or not, but if you can, you'll see a word numbered H5646 in that concordance. Strong does not have a number for that word, which means “us, our”.
This is from a website I found while looking for a GK concordance online:
Unique numbering system developed by Goodrick and Kohlenberger (G/K) eliminates the inherent gaps, flaws, and inaccuracies of the old Strong’s numbering system.
You can find this comment here, and even order your own GK concordance if you'd like.
Thanks to my friend Pierre, I already have a GK concordance, and I can see the word “us” is there in Gen 3:22.
But just in case you don't want to take my word for it, I'll give you a couple other scriptures where that Hebrew word is found, and you will be able to check those against the site you linked for me. You'll see that in these scriptures, the word “us”, or “our” is also omitted in the Strong numbers off to the left on your site. Strong just simply didn't give this Hebrew word a number for some reason. Anyway, here are the scriptures………. let me know if you want to check out even more of them:
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness……….Genesis 5:29
He named him Noah, saying, “This one will bring us comfort from our labor and from the painful toil of our hands because of the ground that the Lord has cursed.”Check those two out on your site, and you'll see what I mean.
At any rate, Gen 3:22 does indeed say, “the man has become like ONE OF US, knowing good from evil”. This matches perfectly with Gen 3:5, where Satan said the man would “become like the gods, knowing good from evil”.
It also lets you know who the “US” and “OUR” is in Gen 1:26. But only if you are willing to see it, 2B. You must first take off the 21st century blinders, and begin to understand words like “el” and “theos” for what they meant WHEN the scriptures were written. Only then will you be able to see the scriptures for what they really teach – as opposed to trying to protect those scriptures from themselves by pretending they are 100% monotheistic.
But that will be up to you, won't it?
Mike,Your quote says that Satan said the man would “become like the god's “.
Genesis 3:5 – My Bible (the RSV) says that Satan said that the man would “become like God “.
There is a big difference in “become like THE GODS” and “become like GOD”.As for the “us” and “our” there is not (that I have seen) any connection with the “us” and “gods”.
Since when and where have angels been called “gods”??By saying that angels are gods, you can then say that the word was a god/angel rather than God's own spoken word from his mouth.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2013,15:08) To All, God created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them. That would include angels, right?
Mike and Kerwin,Created was the heavens, the earth, and all that is visible in the heavens and the earth, obviously.
Created by God's word and spirit.But, angels are invisible.
The only place that I have seen where it states that the invisible things were “created” is in Collosions – which is possible fraudulent and written to support later beliefs (according to wikipedia).
Where this is leading to, I do not know.
Only my thoughts for today.Teraricca,
Regarding your post a page back,Yes, God certainly does do things through people, or angels, or nature, etc. But scripture tells us and I believe it that God alone and by himself created the Heavens and the Earth, with no help.
So why do you not just believe that?
Praise God for creation!I have read the church fathers too and they were inconsistent in what they each said – even contradicting themselves. BUT, sometimes I will read something, and say “Yes, I believe in that”, such as the writing which I quoted from Irenaeus, because it was well said.
Maybe you should read it, or if you have.. then does it agree with scripture? Yes.Quote (Quote) So wouldn't the Son be the Spirit of God. I believe this 100%.
Hi Abe, I forgot to say,
You believe that the Son of God is the Spirit of God?
Me too.Do you see the spirit as the very spirit of God, like this:
“Who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:11)
Thanks Abe.
Quote (2besee @ July 09 2013,16:11) Teraricca,
Regarding your post a page back,Yes, God certainly does do things through people, or angels, or nature, etc. But scripture tells us and I believe it that God alone and by himself created the Heavens and the Earth, with no help.
So why do you not just believe that?
Praise God for creation!I have read the church fathers too and they were inconsistent in what they each said – even contradicting themselves. BUT, sometimes I will read something, and say “Yes, I believe in that”, such as the writing which I quoted from Irenaeus, because it was well said.
Maybe you should read it, or if you have.. then does it agree with scripture? Yes.
2beethe struggle for the truth of God is a lonely trail only a few find it and will go there because it is the road that leads to God ,and it is done in full denial of yourself ,given God all the controls ,no men ,who ever he may be ;Christ can not be looked at it as a man this is the past ,God is moving ahead to fulfill his will ,no one can stop this ,but we as individuals can join him by given up our ego,and humble us, just as Christ did ,
so about all other books from Irenaeus or others those people are from the past they have given me help in mi search for the truth by looking into their search ,but no matter what this is theirs and i have to stand with mine before my God ,
God as shown his love to us ;it is now for us to show our love to him and in this the judgement takes place,say scriptures.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2013,15:10) Quote (2besee @ July 08 2013,05:19) Kerwin, As you quoted from a Jewish Bible, this is from “Outreach Judaism” and the understanding of the word “Elohim” to them.
“The name Elohim, which is not an exception to this rule, comes from the Hebrew root el, which means “might” or “power.”
Hmmmm…………..Where have we all heard this before……….. about a thousand times?
Oh that's right………. I keep saying it over and over!
Mike,I produce a sound when I talk (which produces all kinds of reactions)
A ripple when I hit the water.
I can blow out a candle with my breath.
These are in the physical world, with a body.So, God is pure spirit.
We worship/love God in spirit.
We cannot see God.So, what is spirit then?
I would say our invisible, bodiless thoughts, feelings, and emotions (correct me if you think I am wrong)So, what can I produce with my spirit, alone?
That's a difficult question. It seems not much in the physical world, without words, at least, and then a body.Thought for the day.
Teraricca,
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:14Few by who's count? Mans?
But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.
John 1:12“For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:39-42I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”
Revelations 7:9-12Will knowledge alone save you?
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness'.
Matthew 7:23The dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring–those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
Revelations 12:17Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
Revelations 14:12Obedience, and faith.
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