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Let me help you out, Gene.
Job 1:6… One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Notice that these spirit beings are called sons of God.
Psalm 82:1… God presides over the Assembly of God, and in the midst of the gods He passes judgement.
Notice that here these spirit beings are called gods.
Deuteronomy 32:17… They sacrificed to demons, not God, to gods they had not known, new gods that had just arrived, which your ancestors did not fear.
Notice that here these demons are called gods.
Judges 13:21-21… And when the angel of the LORD did not appear again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it had been the angel of the LORD. “We are going to die,” he said to his wife, “for we have seen a god!”
Notice here that the angel of Yahweh is called a god.
Deuteronomy 10:17… For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords…
Notice here that Yahweh isn’t literally the ONLY God in existence, but is actually the God of many other gods.
1 Kings 11:33… I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molek the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in obedience to me…
Notice here that Yahweh Himself refers to these other gods as “gods” – even using the plural word “elohim” to signify that they are great gods.
Isaiah 9:6… For a child will be born to us… and his name will be called wonderful counselor, mighty god…
Notice here that Jesus is called a mighty god.
Hebrews 1:8… But about the Son He says, “Your throne, O god, endures forever and ever…
Notice here that Jesus is again called a god.
Are you starting to get the picture of what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches concerning the many gods, and the Most High God OF all the other gods? Are you understanding that God’s spirit sons are called “sons of God”, “angels”, and “gods”?
Do you understand that after Manoah realized the messenger that came to him was an angel of God, he likewise realized that he had seen a god? Because angels of God ARE gods, Gene. Angels of Satan are gods too. Any spirit son of God IS a god according to the entire Bible, Gene.
So now think… If the angel Gabriel appeared on earth and told the humans that he had been sent down from heaven to tell them something, they would understand that Gabriel was claiming to be a heavenly son of God, and therefore a god! Because heavenly sons of God ARE gods, Gene!
Now think further… If Jesus had claimed that he was existing alongside God in heaven and then was sent down from heaven to tell the humans something, those humans would understand that Jesus was claiming to be a heavenly son of God – and therefore a god! Because heavenly sons of God ARE gods, Gene!
Do you understand now? Jesus point blank claimed – at many times and in many different ways – to have been a son of God who was sent down from heaven. Because of these claims, the Jews accused him of blasphemy because THEY believed him to be a mere man, and here he was claiming to be a heavenly son of God, therefore a god! Because heavenly sons of God ARE gods, Gene!
So you just accused ME of being the one who believed the blind Pharisees. But in reality it is YOU. Because YOU are the one who believes Jesus was merely a man like they did. See, they knew that Jesus was CLAIMING to be a heavenly son of God who was sent down from heaven, therefore a god. It’s just that they didn’t BELIEVE what he claimed from his own mouth. You are just like them, Gene. You don’t believe what Jesus said about himself either.
But that’s why they accused him of blasphemy, Gene. Not because he LIED when he said he was a heavenly son of God (a god) who was sent down from heaven. But because they simply didn’t BELIEVE him WHEN he said it.
And Jesus didn’t DENY their accusation that he was claiming to be a god, Gene. He merely explained that if God called His heavenly sons “gods” in Psalm 82 (the ones who did wrong and were condemned), then why wouldn’t God’s heavenly son who was set aside by God as special and sent into the earth not also be at least as much of a son of God (god) as those condemned ones were.
Here’s the short version: Jesus responded by asking how it was blasphemous to claim to be a son of God from heaven since that’s what he truly was. Understand? He said he was a son of God sent down from heaven. They (and you) didn’t believe him. They (and you) accused him of LYING when he claimed to be something he actually was!
Hey @Admin
I notice that when I use the @ , it creates a gold link to the member you name… except for the username Proclaimer. Why would that be?
And just now, I tried to send a private message to “Proclaimer” – but it said I had addressed it to an invalid username. The message went through when I addressed it to Admin – but not Proclaimer.
Why would that be?
Also, it used to be that when you started typing the name of the person you wanted to sent a message to, a list would pop up and let you select the recipient. For example, just typing the letter “b” would bring up all members who have a “b” in their username. It doesn’t do that anymore. Why not?
Anyway, I sent you a message (to Admin) that you have been put on the Hot Seat, and that you have your first question waiting there for you. Tick tock…
Username is t8, but you can change the name that people see. The @ works for the username. Display names are not necessarily unique. There could be 3 members displayed as David for example. But each has a unique username.
And the prompt works when you are in text mode and have a good connection.
Anyway, I sent you a message (to Admin) that you have been put on the Hot Seat, and that you have your first question waiting there for you. Tick tock…
Ooh, I’m scared. Lol.
Carmel: I ALREADY MADE IT CLEAR THAT GENESIS 1:1HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENESIS 1:3….. AND GENESIS 1:2 IS THE STATE OF THE EARTH AFTER THE EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1 GOT CORRUPTED!
You don’t make things clear for us, Carmel… the scriptures do. And according to Yahweh Himself, the creation of the heaven and the earth are INCLUDED in the six days of creation…
Exodus 20:11… For in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
Mike, I repeat what I am sure of whether you believe it or not,
THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR AND SAID:
For in six days the LORD MADE the heaven and the earth, HE DIDN’T CREATE THE EARTH!
ALSO, IT SAYS; the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
Genesis 1:1 DOES NOT MENTION THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM,
JUST EARTH
AS THERE WAS NO SEA AT ALL!
THE SEA WAS INTRODUCED ONLY IN THE SIX-DAY CREATION, TEMPORARY TO DISTINGUISH THE GOOD AND THE EVIL PROCESS IN THE WATER!
Genesis 1:9 God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place:
and let the dry land appear.
And it was so done. 10And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas.
Mike, THE LAND existed before Genesis 1:2 and was SUBMERGED, the fact that it says APPEARED! Read now hereunder:
Job 38:8 Who shut up the sea with doors,
when it broke forth as issuing out of the womb:
ANSWER Mike, WHEN THIS KIND OF SEA OCCURRED FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE IT SAYS
as issuing out of the womb: BORN NO?
Genesis 1:1 WAS A PERFECT CREATION Mike!
ALSO, GOD NEVER NEEDED TO REST, SINCE IT WAS ALL PERFECT!
Genesis 1:3…… was not perfect but very good!
READ: Ezekiel28:13 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day of thy creation, until iniquity was found in thee.
15:Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God……
As you can read Lucifer was created perfect!
Lucifer abided on earth, IN THE FIRST GARDEN OF EDEN OF THE FIRST EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1,
Genesis 2:8 And the Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure from
THE BEGINNING:
whom he created himself in perfect harmony with God! Job 38:7
no one and nothing is created perfect from Genesis 1:3…..up to this day!
So no, Gen 1:1 is NOT separated from Gen 1:2 and 1:3. Gen 1:1 is INCLUDED in the same six days of creation.
NO IT IS NOT!
READ: j
Jeremiah:4:23
I beheld the earth, and lo it was void, and nothing: and THE HEAVENS,(PLURAL) and there was no light in them. ( THE FACT THAT IT SAYS THERE WAS NO LIGHT, MEANS THERE WAS NO GOD, CORRUPTED)
A CLEAR DESCRIPTION OF THE EARTH JUST BEFORE THE FIRST FLOOD OCCURRED!
24I looked upon the mountains, and behold they trembled: and all the hills were troubled.
NOTICE MOUNTAINS AND HILLS EXISTED BEFORE GENESIS 1:2
THIS KIND OF DESCRIPTION IS ALSO MENTIONED IN
PSALM 18: WHEN DAVID CALLED GOD FOR HELP, READ:
7The earth shook and trembled: the foundations of the mountains were troubled and were moved, because he was angry with them.
Cont. Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and lo there was no man:
and all the birds of the air were gone.
THERE WAS NO MAN, SINGULAR, YET! Genesis 1:3 has not yet started!
ALL THE BIRDS WERE ALREADY CREATED BUT THEY WERE GONE!
the above is not in actual fact a reference to the birds only, BUT SYMBOLICALLY A REFERENCE TO THE HEAVENLY HOSTS THROUGH THE REBELLION!
26I looked, and behold Carmel was a WILDERNESS: and all its cities were destroyed at the presence of the Lord, and at the presence of the wrath of his indignation.
NOTICE, Carmel was a WILDERNESS and all its cities were destroyed :
A CLEAR REFERENCE TO GENESIS 1:1
AS ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, CARMEL IS ONLY A MOUNTAIN RANGE, AND THERE ARE NO CITIES AT ALL!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
27For thus saith the Lord: All the land shall be desolate,
but yet I will not utterly destroy.
28The earth shall mourn, and THE HEAVENS (PLURAL)shall lament from above:
because I have spoken, I have purposed, and I have not repented, neither am I turned away from it.
THE ABOVE THREE VERSES IN A WAY, ARE A CLEAR REFERENCE ALSO TO THE EARTH OF
GENESIS 1:1
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
You: So then your answer is “NOTHING”? You haven’t tested what the spirit told you against anything? Hmm…
Me: Mike, I test the spirit in relation to my maturity versus to what I receive!
Also, I produced the scripture related to what I received!
Read again Please:
I received that:
Satan’s hope, from Jesus’ death, was that Jesus comes back to life, in order FOR SATAN, to remain active on earth AT LEAST AS A SPIRIT IN THE AIR.
Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how you hear. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: and whosoever hath not,
that also which he thinketh he hath,
shall be taken away from him.my question is Mike,
ARE YOU IN THE POSITION TO DISCERN WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS IN RELATION TO WHAT I RECEIVED?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike,
Regarding this post:
LU: You said this to PC: LU: I think John 1:1 teaches a Binary Godhead.
Where did I say that?
Did I word your belief incorrectly? If so, please correct me. As far as I know from your own words, you believe that YHWH is a combination of “YHWH the Father” and “YHWH the Son”… two members of the same Godhead.You’ve told me that our Creator is the combo of those two, and that we are to pray to and worship the combo of those two.
Have I gotten that wrong? If so, I apologize and await your correction.
Yes, you worded my belief incorrectly. I have never used the term “binary” ever, nor do I think it is applicable. I don’t think I have ever used the word “combination” either. I think that John 1:1 teaches the understand that in the beginning, two distinct persons existed together, both referred to as theos in the Greek. My understanding is that the two persons are the Father who in v. 18 of John 1 seems to be the God whom no one has ever seen and the second person is the Word of God who is the only begotten God, i.e. the only begotten Son of God, mentioned in John 1:18 that is in the bosom of the Father, from the NASB 1995 version.
Thank you for your apology, I appreciate that you are open to the clarification.
God bless, LU
Mikeboll64,
Mike, you said:
1 Kings 11:33… I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molek the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in obedience to me…
Notice here that Yahweh Himself refers to these other gods as “gods” – even using the plural word “elohim” to signify that they are great gods.
Please show me where one god is referred to as the plural “elohim” in the verse that you used.
It’s like the Trinity, but minus one member. The Binity is a good decriptor.
YHWH is not a Binity. He is one. The Father of all. The Most High.
People like playing around with precious truths. Maybe it makes them feel intelligent. But in reality, it is foolish.
Truth comes from the Spirit of God not the spirit of man.
God reveals himself to us.
Making an idol to represent God seems to be a natural thing to do.
I do not really understand the reason for doing that.
But that is what happened and keeps happening.
YHVH is God of gods AND Lord of lords. For believers, the God of gods is one person and the Lord of lords is another. Two persons are represented by the one name “YHVH” and YHVH is echad (a term implying a unity).
I don’t see the point in fighting so hard to be a Polytheist. Just let go and let the truth rule in your mind and heart. Resisting the truth that the only true God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ will have you come off second best. In other words you will lose. You can’t fight or change the truth. The truth is timeless and eternity never ends. I myself choose truth.
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
I really believe this and I believe in eternal life and I want eternal life. Why would you fight against that? Pride?
There is the true God and the Lord Jesus Christ who is his Son, the firstborn.
Your gospel is foreign to heaven. Just another pantheon of gods that you choose.
To this day I do not understand what the temptation is with Polytheism.
May I never find out, but if I do, may I never be tempted to create God or make him into an idol made from a carnal mind or fashioned with my hands. So foolish to do that.
Father AND Son share le same NAME
Y H V H
THIS SHOWS THAT ONE COMES FROM (proceded forth)THE OTHER
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.( John 8:42)
The truth is there is ONE TRUE GOD THE FATHER AND ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
THEY ARE “ONE” IN ESSENCE (Nature),
IN SPIRIT (MIND),
IN HEART ❤️,
IN PURPOSE,
BUT NOT IN PERSON.
Amen!
Mike…..God is the Father of all of mankind, that is if you truly believe what Jesus and other scriptures say, so your point is mute at best by scriptures many of them.
ALSO , being a son of God does not make you a God. The reason people get mixed up on that point is they, do not know the real definition of the word “GOD”.
THE WORD “GOD”, IS NOT A PERSON IT IS A “DISCRIPTOR”, OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH ANY THING, money, cars, stone figures, Idols of anykind, yes that and anything can actually be your God. But are they the one and only “true” God, no they are all false God, but to the deceived they are true Gods, but not unto us (true believers ) they are nothing to us.
You are confused , because you do not truly understand what the word “God” means, or you could easely understand this IMO. TRUE BELIEVERS ONLY HAVE “ONE” GOD, just what Jesus told us. But then you people do not “truly” Believe Jesus or you would understand who God “truly” is, “YOU SHALL HAVE NO GOD BESIDE ME” , that’s what the “TRUE” GOD SAID, you either believe him or not, just that simple.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike. …………gene
My brother and sister-in-law have been laid up sick in bed for almost a month. They are finally over it. They are double vaxxed (I don’t know if they are also boosted). They were tested by a lab – negative for Covid. They took many home tests – all negative for Covid.
Did they have “swine flu”? “Bird flu”? “Mers”? “Sars”?
Of course not, because those things aren’t in the news cycle right now. But what if the same exact thing happened in 2009 – when Swine Flu was in the news cycle? Well of course it would have had to BE Swine Flu, right?
The bottom line is that everyone has experienced colds and flus all their lives. Some are mild, some are very severe. And if you are old or in bad health, some people die from these common colds and flus every single year.
Um, the fact that you mention these different strains kind of says the opposite of what you are arguing. That there are different strains of flu just as there are different strains of Coronaviruses. you seem to want to just call them one thing and ignore the differences. For a start, some viruses are more deadly than others. So it is important to differentiate. This is why there are tests that give a positive or negative reading. If you have symptoms and test negative, then it is a different virus or strain that may not have a test because it is not recognised as harmful to the same extent. If it was, then a test would probably be devised in time.
To date, I’ve supposedly had Swine Flu but not Covid. Others have Covid but not Swine Flu. Some have this virus or strain while others get a different virus or strain. It’s not rocket science. Lol. Been like that since I can remember. Giving these strains a name seems to be confusing you to some degree. You want to bundle them altogether and give them one name? Would you do that for computer viruses if you were the CEO of an antivirus company? Your business would fail if you refused to see differences in computer virus code and harmful effects. Why? Because each needs a different solution. You would have one solution for all viruses and your solution wouldn’t work because a one size fits all solution wouldn’t work. You would be relegated to the unemployment queue Mike.
And why the drop in flu cases? Well if in previous years people were isolated in lockdowns and wore masks, then I’m betting that there would have been a drop in flu numbers. Again, not rocket science. Maybe you do not realise this, but isolating helps stop the spread of viruses. Lol.
One of the major differences with a variation of flu virus vs Corona virus is that the latter is much more contagious. My advice is to hold China accountable for releasing this on the world. You seem to want to let them off the hook and say, it’s just a virus. Nothing to see here folks.
Mike, you are neither scientific or scientismific. Lol.
Your argument here has failed.
Proclaimer,
Berean and I are saying the same thing with different words. You don’t seem to understand that. You react affirmatively towards Berean and the opposite towards me. We are essentially saying the same thing.
YHVH is both the Father and the Son, two persons. One God + one Lord, united in one Spirit.=YHVH.
Berean,
You agree with this, right?
YHVH is both the Father and the Son, two persons. One God + one Lord, united in one Spirit.=YHVH.
Gene: Mike……before you start, why not EXPLAIN what the word “SCIENTISM” means, I have never heard of the word before you mentioned it here.
Hi Gene,
Just so you know, the Hot Seat thread is a private thread. Nobody but I and Proclaimer can post there. I will still be active in this thread, and so if you have any comments or questions about things said by me and Proclaimer in the other thread, post them here. But please don’t post any more comments on the private thread. Thanks.
Roughly, scientism is the view that the hard sciences—like chemistry, biology, physics, astronomy—provide the only genuine knowledge of reality… Ethics and religion may be acceptable, but only if they are…regarded as private matters of opinion.
But here’s what most people don’t know: Science is investigation and collection of data. That’s it. Science doesn’t take a stance one way or the other about ANY subject. It is ONLY the act of investigating, collecting and testing data.
So for example, science is the act of looking up in the night sky and collecting data on the lights we see. Anyone who can do this is, by definition, a scientist. But science won’t tell us what those lights are… only that they appear to be lights that move across the sky in repeated patterns.
Flawed and biased men then study the scientific data we gather about those lights and make INTERPRETATIONS of what those data mean.
Scientism is a faith-based belief in those INTERPRETATIONS.
The last three paragraphs of the article I linked above deal with “Weak Scientism”. That describes people who leave room for things like souls and God and a spirit realm and the Bible – but believe that the interpretations of Scientism provide the ultimate authority when it comes to genuine knowledge.
For example, the Bible says the earth is 6000 years old – but Scientism (interpretations of data by flawed human beings) says it is 4.5 billion years old. You may believe in God and the Bible – but you also believe the interpretations that the earth is 4.5 billion years old OVER the Bible – which says it is 6000 years old. That is “Weak Scientism”, and I believe that’s where you, Proclaimer, and the vast majority of self-professed Christians fall.
If you have other questions about this or any topic on the Hot Seat thread, post them here. I won’t ignore you. Cheers.
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