- This topic has 2,076 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
Gene
While waiting for Mike to answer you, read these few verses carefully.
Remember the sabbath DAY, to keep it holy.
[9] SIX DAYS halt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the SEVENTH DAY is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:👇
FORin 👉 SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
👉and rested the 👉SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Berean…….first of all we are not the ones God was talking to at the time that was given to The nation of Israel, in the form of “LAWS” . That nation was a Carnal Nation, nor did they keep the sabbath properly right either, they have nothing to do with the Spiritual house of God . OR HAVEN’T YOU EVER , READ THIS, there “Remains” a keeping of the sabbath unto the people of God , now,
Col 2:16… let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day , or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath DAYS.
READ ALL of Col 2: 12-23, WHO KNOWS IT MIGHT HELP YOU Berean.
ASO Berean, Please not just read this, but honestly study these scriptures ok>. Heb 4: 1-11 it explains the Sabbath clearly , it’s not about just one Day it’s about a permanent rest .
peace and love to you and yours Berean………gene
Why does seven days from God’s calendar before man existed have to be the exact amount of hours as 7 days from our perspective? Careful how you answer. Do not give an explanation about the 7 days itself because that is not in question. Rather, the assumption that it is the same amount of hours involved as 7 days for us now. Why does that have to be? Because it seems weird given that the sun is not even created on half of the days yet according this view. Looks to me like there is a glaring error in this interpretation.
Gene
You
Col 2:16… let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day , or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath DAYS.
READ ALL of Col 2: 12-23, WHO KNOWS IT MIGHT HELP YOU Berean.
Me
You speak ABOUT CEREMONIALS LAWS(Col.2:16…) which were nailed to the cross and are no longer needed, BUT THE MORAL LAW OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WAS NOT NAILED to the cross, it is still in effect.
👇
Romans 7:12,22
The law therefore is holy, and the commandment holy, just, and good.…👇
1 Corinthiens 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.1John 5 We know we love God’s children when we love God and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS. 3For the love of God consists in KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. And his commandments are not burdensome, 4because whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and the victory that overcomes the world is our faith.…
👇
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.
👇
Rev.22:[14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS , that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Berean…….The Sabbath of God is a shadow of the things to come, it show us that we enter into a state of rest, but how?, by ceasing from or works, and resting and letting God do the works in us. Just the “exact same way Jesus Did, or, don’t you believe Jesus when he said, “I can do nothing of myself , the Father who is “in” me, “He” ,does, “the Works”. Those who truly believe in God the Father like Jesus does, have entered into the true Sabbath of God, something those Israel of old could not do, because of their unbelief. Even though they kept the “physical” Sabbath days. As you and your SDA CHURCH DOES.
While the “physical” Sabbath is a “shadow”or sign , it is Not the“God with real thing”, That is why Paul never told anyone they had to keep the physical Sabbath days. Just like he never told them to be circumcised either.
Berean….if you focus only on the physical, you will not see the Spiritual fulfillment of it. We who through belief and “FAITH ” , in God the Father, have entered into that rest, just like Jesus has. WE Have ceased from “our” works, put ourselves to death by our “Faith”, in God the Father, trusting in him with “all” our hearts, as Jesus does and did.
peace and love to you and yours Berean………gene
Berean….. I realize that , because you don’t believe what Jesus or Paul said either. But you do believe in what the SDA SAY RIGHT?
peace and love to you and yours……..gene
This IS the bible Mr Gene not SDA
.
👇
Romans 7:12,22
The law therefore is holy, and the commandment holy, just, and good.…👇
1 Corinthiens 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.1John 5 We know we love God’s children when we love God and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS. 3For the love of God consists in KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. And his commandments are not burdensome, 4because whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and the victory that overcomes the world is our faith.…
👇
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.
👇
Rev.22:[14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS , that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Admin: I think the login cookie expired at that moment. WordPress which is the CMS this website is built upon, defaults to 2 weeks for the login cookie, something I was not aware of till now.
As you know, I have added in some code to extend the cookie for one year. Hopefully it works.
Thank you! 👍🙂😎
Hi Gene,
You: don’t you believe Jesus when he said, “I can do nothing of myself ,
the Father who is “in” me, “He” ,does, “the Works”.
ME: Gene,
THE PROBLEM WITH YOU Gene, is that
YOU DON’T SEE THE FULL TRUTH OF WHAT JESUS SAYS, BUT ONLY WHAT YOUR CORRUPTED MENTALITY UNDERSTANDS AND PLEASES, BY WHICH YOU EVEN FIND IT AWKWARD TO PRONOUNCE THE NAME OF YOUR FIRST LOVE AND SAVIOUR
JESUS CHRIT! READ AGAIN PLEASE:
the Father who is “in” me, “He” ,does, “the Works”.
NOTICE, YOU SIMPLY PUT THE INVERTED COMMAS ONLY WHERE YOU FELT IS ACCORDING TO YOUR FEEBLE BELIEF AND YOU LEFT OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT WORD WHICH CLEARLY SAYS WHAT IN ACTUAL FACT
JESUS FULLY MEANT!
NOW I WILL SHOW YOU HOW YOU SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN THAT VERSE WITH THE INVERTED COMMAS IN THEIR APPROPRIATE PLACES:
the Father who is in “ME”, “HE”, does, the Works
THE FATHER AND JESUS ARE IN FULL HARMONY IN THE PROCESS OF REDEMPTION!
OK, Mr. Gene?
CAN YOU SEE WHAT IT SAYS Gene,
NO, YOU CAN’T I’M AFRAID, I TELL YOU:
IT SIMPLY SAYS THAT
AS MUCH AS GOD “IS” IN JESUS AND DOES HIS WORKS
GOD WITHOUT JESUS, ALL BY HIMSELF,
CANNOT DO HIS WORKS, Mr. Gene!
ESPECIALLY ON THIS SATANIC EARTH!
WHEN WILL YOU GET IT INTO YOUR CARNAL MIND THAT
NO JESUS NO GOD’S WORKS!!!
DO YOU KNOW WHY? NO, YOU DON’T I’AFRAID!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT SATAN, UNLESS THE WORK IS MANIFESTED TANGIBLY BY JESUS, HE DEFINITELY WOULD ATTRIBUTE THE WORK TO HIMSELF AS GOD OF THIS WORLD Mr. Gene!
THE FACT THAT SCRIPTURALLY ONLY
JESUS IS THE TRUTH!!!
BT WHICH TRUTH THE FATHER IS ALSO PROCLAIMED BY JESUS
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST! OK?
THE FATHER IS
BOTH THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST!
you see ME you see the Father
I and the Father are one
You: Berean….if you focus only on the physical, you will not see the Spiritual fulfillment of it.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Gene, BY YOUR OWN WORDS YOU ARE JUDGED IN THE ABOVE!
If you focus only on the physical, you will not see the Spiritual fulfillment of it. Mr. Gene!
You: We who through belief and
“FAITH ” , in God the Father, have entered into that rest, just like Jesus has. WE Have ceased from “our” works, put ourselves to death by our
“Faith”, in God the Father, trusting in him with “all” our hearts, as Jesus does and did.
Me: IN THE ABOVE YOU SIMPLY CONFIRMED HOW DIFFICULT AND HEAVY FOR YOU TO GIVE JESUS HIS DEW HONOUR AND DENIED PURE SCRIPTURE IN RELATION TO
FAITH IN JESUS!
AND IF YOU DENY JESUS YOU DENY GOD THE FATHER:
John5:23 That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father.
He who honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father who hath sent him.
1 John2:23 Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father. He that confesses the Son has the Father also.
Now hereunder are a few verses that contradict you!
Hebrews 12:2 Looking on Jesus, the
AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF FAITH,…
Galatians 2:16But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ;
we also believe in Christ Jesus,
that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, .….
20And I live, now not I; but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh:
I live in the faith of the Son of God,
who loved me, and delivered himself for me.
Romans 10:17 Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.
and hearing by the word of Christ.
John5:24Amen, amen I say unto you,
that he who heareth my word,
and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting…..
John3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son;
that whosoever believeth in him,
may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world,
but that the world may be saved by him.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Gene: Here is an example, of trivia, prove that Genesis 1-4 weren’t already existing before there was a first day? Fact is you can’t…
Gene, Genesis 1:1-4 tells us what came into existence on that first day.
Exodus 31:12-18… Then the LORD said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths… For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the LORD… It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ”
When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.
Gene, can you see that this is a direct quote from Yahweh Himself? What does Yahweh Himself say that He made in six days? He lists two things. I’ve underlined them for you.
Can you see that the heavens and the earth are two of the things Yahweh made within the same six day period? Notice that He doesn’t say He made the heavens and the earth – and then made other things within a six day period, right?
Instead, Yahweh Himself INCLUDES the heavens and the earth in the six days of creation. Can you see that now?
Proclaimer: Why does seven days from God’s calendar before man existed have to be the exact amount of hours as 7 days from our perspective?
Because according to scripture, God created both “day” and “night” on the first “day”.
Because the first day consisted of one “evening” and one “morning” – just like all subsequent days have done.
And because God was relating this information to humans… for whom He made days in the first place. These humans understood a “day” to be a 24-hour period of “evening” and “morning”, right? So what sense would it make for God to tell humans that He did something in “six days” if He really did it in six “one million year periods” or whatever – knowing full well that they would understand it as six literal 24-hour days?
Also, how would the days being “extended periods of time” work for you anyway? For each “one million year period”, there would be 500 thousand years of constant daylight followed by 500 thousand years of nighttime.
Plus, according to Scientism, your “extended period days” would be uneven, because the first day would be 10 billion years long (heaven and earth created), and the following five days would be about one billion years each (from new earth to man).
Proclaimer: Because it seems weird given that the sun is not even created on half of the days yet according this view. Looks to me like there is a glaring error in this interpretation.
And don’t forget that plants existed on earth BEFORE the sun (and all the stars) was even created! It’s not an error in translation, Proclaimer. It’s an error in your Scientism-based understanding of the world God created for us.
Scientism has told you that the sun is the reason there is light/daytime on earth. The Bible tells you that there can be light/daytime without the sun… both in the first three days of creation, and again in New Jerusalem.
At any rate – after months of condescending ad hominem attacks and other such nonsense – are you finally ready to own up to the fact that the Bible and Scientism are hopelessly contradictory, and that no amount of imagining gaps and “extended period days” is going to unite the two?
Because if so, we’re finally ready for you to directly answer the very first question I asked you:
Which of the two contradictory accounts is the truth?
Because according to scripture, God created both “day” and “night” on the first “day”.
Because the first day consisted of one “evening” and one “morning” – just like all subsequent days have done.
Yet, the sun according to this view was not created till the fourth day. Funny that.
So you make the argument that God is light.
So how is night created if God is light?
Does he depart earth for 12 hours and return?
The new earth has no need of a sun for light because God is light, but it doesn’t mean there won’t be a sun for it’s other features. But the text says there will be no night too, unlike this earth.
The thing about error is that it creates ridiculous interpretations to fix and then it causes problems for other points which also require ridiculous interpretations. I am surprised that such glaring issues are ignored by yourself as it just creates a big mess.
Also, how would the days being “extended periods of time” work for you anyway? For each “one million year period”, there would be 500 thousand years of constant daylight followed by 500 thousand years of nighttime.
Like much of the bible, it could be metaphorical. So that morning and evening are the beginning and end of each day and not really about the lighting situation that you are talking about. After all, Jesus is coming back with a sword in his mouth. So obviously metaphorical language. And Jesus spoke in parables for reasons you should know about. Thus, spiritual things are spoken of metaphorically using physical things so we can perceive the meaning. How else are we to get a basic understanding of things that are far beyond what eye can see and ear hear?
Other examples of metaphors in the bible include:
- “The Lord is my shepherd” …
- “The day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” …
- “I am the bread of life.” …
- “I am the way and the truth and the light.” …
- “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.” …
- “You are the salt of the earth.”
The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
And don’t forget that plants existed on earth BEFORE the sun (and all the stars) was even created! It’s not an error in translation, Proclaimer. It’s an error in your Scientism-based understanding of the world God created for us.
Yep, a big problem with your interpretation alright. For a start, try placing a plant in complete darkness and see what happens.
But you don’t have to bother if you consider that Genesis actually says that God created the heavens and the earth and that the earth was formless and void before the days even began. After that, the days show us how he prepares the earth for life and eventually man. This is how Genesis puts it and it has a second witness with our understanding of the natural world. That is two strong witnesses.
Basically, after God created the heavens and the earth, the camera or viewpoint is from the surface of the deep:
Thus the appearance of the sun moon and stars is from that vantage point.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Anyway, I love science. I especially like how it shows how finely tuned the universe is and that the odds of this happening by itself are zero. But if we ignore some basic facts and look at the kind of universe that we have vs the ones we could have had, the odds of having a universe that allows stars, planets, and life, is greater than all the atoms in the known universe. In other words, lucky doesn’t get close to describing how fortunate we are to exist in this very special universe.
The only out that scientists have left for not believing in God is the Multiverse theory which we have zero proof and you also have to ignore that such a construct would equally demand a creator God.
While you may not understand any of this, suffice to say , you are foolishly suggesting that thousands or millions of lizard people are tricking us to believe the earth is a globe that spins around the sun in order to blind us into believing in God. And the alternative theory they propose mistakenly proves the existence of God all the more. Lol.
Hilarious Mike. Really funny. I mean if you want to be the butt of the joke, then that is your choice I suppose. But maybe you can’t see it in which case I pity you and anyone who takes teaching from you on this.
At any rate – after months of condescending ad hominem attacks and other such nonsense – are you finally ready to own up to the fact that the Bible and Scientism are hopelessly contradictory, and that no amount of imagining gaps and “extended period days” is going to unite the two?
Or that you have and continue to miss the points I am making. Either by your extreme bias which is making you ignorant or a lack of intellect which is not a sin. If the latter, then you should be wise enough to know your limitations and not set yourself up as an authority and teacher on things that are way over your head. You are just embarrassing yourself in that case and I tell you this in love.
I am basically the guy who is kindly telling another that there is egg on his face, in the hope that he wipes his face so people won’t laugh at him. But if they ignore that, then I am just saying that people will laugh. That is all. Thanks for reading this far at least.
Yet, the sun according to this view was not created till the fourth day. Funny that.
So you make the argument that God is light.
So how is night created if God is light?
Does he depart earth for 12 hours and return?
The new earth has no need of a sun for light because God is light, but it doesn’t mean there won’t be a sun for it’s other features. But the text says there will be no night too, unlike this earth.
The thing about error is that it creates ridiculous interpretations to fix and then it causes problems for other points which also require ridiculous interpretations. I am surprised that such glaring issues are ignored by yourself as it just creates a big mess.
This is purely due to primitive understanding of the universe by the writers of the books of the Bible like any other Near Eastern religious creation stories.
Is Genesis primitive or certain interpretations of Genesis primitive?
Well yes, primitive in the sense that it is from eons ago. But not necessarily primitive from a scientific view point.
The text clearly says that God created the heavens and the earth, even before day one. That is the elephant in the room that some are ignoring. Therefore, it could be your understanding of scripture that is primitive. Have you thought about this possibility? It would be worth reading the text and mulling this over if truth is important to you.
Day 1 starts at the surface of a watery planet. That is a fact. Read it for yourself. So place the camera there and the stars, sun, moon appear first. Possibly referring to a clearing atmosphere. Terraforming a planet is very much science and there is much talk about terraformming another planet called Mars in the future. It starts with changing the atmosphere to accommodate plants and then adding animals and finally man. Exactly the Genesis account.
I am not saying that Genesis is without a doubt talking about terrforming a formless and void planet earth, but that among the interpretations, it not only fits with our modern scientific view, but I also think it is a more honest interpretation with the way Genesis is written.
So could it be that yours and Mike’s interpretation of Genesis is primitive? My opinion is yes.
You have as much proof that your view of Genesis is the correct interpretation as you do proof that the Bible teaches the flat earth. I think you want this to be the case so you can deny God. And Mike wants the same so he can deny science. You are both deniers when you think about it. You both seem to place your made up minds and ego first, rather than seek with an honest heart and look at what the text is actually saying. But such is the quality of man.
You have as much proof that your view of Genesis is the correct interpretation as you do proof that the Bible teaches the flat earth. I think you want this to be the case so you can deny God. And Mike wants the same so he can deny science. You are both deniers when you think about it. You both seem to place your made up minds and ego first, rather than seek with an honest heart and look at what the text is actually saying. But such is the quality of man.
Hello Proclaimer, there is nothing to express our egos here as we are all debating on the ancient religious texts. Please take for example of Gen 1:1 which you people claim to be a proof for supporting the Scientific view of creation for billions of years. The same Biblical writers interpret the Genesis creation stories in which God of the Bible created heaven and earth within six literal days as our Mike repeatedly debate here as per Exodus 31:
17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
If you deny the above text you will also deny the original story of creation in the Bible. So what do you say?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
