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Mike: All you need to do is show those scriptures…
Carmel: I BELIEVE THERE’S NO NEED TO DO THAT SINCE IT IS IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES!
And that, in a nutshell, is every discussion I’ve ever had with you, Carmel. You claim unscriptural and very bizarre things, but then can’t actually show us a scripture that even hints at any of the nonsense you spout.
And when you do show scriptures, they don’t even relate to the thing we’re discussing… or they very clearly DON’T say or prove the thing you’re claiming they say or prove.
Your latest claim, that the language God used was “anthropomorphic (accommodated and communicated from our perspective in terms we can understand)” is just more nonsense. Are you saying that God was unable to communicate “six very long periods of time” to Moses? Did the Hebrews have no concept of years, or thousands of years?
Come on man. God used “six days” – and then even EQUATED those six days to the six literal days they were to work before taking a day off – BECAUSE He created the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them in six literal days. There is absolutely nothing in scripture to make any rational person think otherwise.
The face of me and the other members of HN when I ask Proclaimer how exactly he doesn’t look for the most recent posts at the very end of the thread – right where they always are. 😂😅🤣
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxczXul0wjYEr9hv5Oia14cw9o56Tv2k6E
Great. I’ll check that out. Much appreciated. I thought I has to trawl through many questions to find the right one. Done that many times before and it is a waste of time. Looking now.
Mike I took a look and no your answer is not there. I spent a wasteful 5 minutes trawling through to find it. No luck.
I could get Admin to spend some time deleting posts back to where you have answered the question if you have done that and to make your next question the last post.
Are you okay for Admin to do that? Currently it is a dogs breakfast. You have jumped the gun on the questions.
Hi Mike,
ME: I’M AFRAID I HAVE TO KEEP ON REMINDING YOU:
(A) Read again what I posted and you ignored for a reason only you know!
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+the+day
IN THE DAY
Phrase not found in the Dictionary and Encyclopedia.
OK Mike, the phrase: “IN THE DAY” IS NOT EVEN AN IDIOM!
MICAH 7:11 WHICH YOU PRODUCED, IS NOT VALID AT ALL IN RELATION TO WHAT I ASKED YOU!
NOW TO CUT IT SHORT!
PRODUCE PROOF, IN THE SAME WAY, I DID ABOVE,
THAT THE PHRASES
“IN THE DAY”,
OR
“IN THAT DAY” ARE IDIOMS!
NOW TO THE NEXT ONE!
(B) Mike, guess what I’m going to do!….
I WILL TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION FOR A CHANGE AND I ASK YOU:
FIND THE SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT THAT WHEN IN SCRIPTURE WE READ
“GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH”
IS NEITHER MYSTERIOUS IN ANY WAY NOR DIFFERENT FROM WHEN WE READ IN SCRIPTURE
“GOD MADE THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN”
SIMPLY BY FIND ANOTHER SCRIPTURE THAT PRODUCES ANOTHER SIMILAR STATEMENT LIKE
“GOD MADE/CREATED/FORMED/ESTABLISHED/FURNISHED,
THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN”
READY, SET, GO!
NOW TO THE NEXT ONE:
(C) ANSWER Mr. Mike!
DID GOD THE FATHER, PERFECT,
CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH of Genesis 1:1
YES OR NO?
NOW, DID GOD THE FATHER, PERFECT, CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IN Genesis 1:1
PERFECT?
YES OR NO?
CAN YOU SEE IT THIS TIME!
Mr. Milk! with every respect!
YES OR NO?
IT SEEMS TO ME FINALLY YOU DECIDED TO ACCEPT AND READ
MY NOVELS!
YES OR NO PLEASE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Mike, and in this case also Berean,
ME: As far as I know, there are no scriptures mentioned specifically that make use of
TOHU VA BOHU AND IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO A CHAOS, WASTE,
AND A NEGATIVE STATE OR REFERENCE!
SO PLEASE PRODUCE THE PARTICULAR SCRIPTURE!
You: Okay, since I have a holiday from work and nothing else to do, here we go…
Me: You have WASTED YOUR HOLIDAY Mike, I’m AFRAID.
ALL THE WORK WHICH YOU PRODUCED IS A CONFIRMATION THAT THE PHRASE
TOHU VA BOHU IS A NEGATIVE STATE OR REFERENCE ,
and there isn’t the least hope, that its use in Genesis 1:2 is in any way related to
GOD’S OWN WORK OF LOVE AT ALL!
You: ….none of the three actually refer to any of the negative words you used, but refer to something in an empty and void state,
ME: WHICH DOES NOT REFER TO A POSITIVE STATE OR REFERENCE IN ANY WAY, AND ALSO INDIVIDUALLY,
DEFINITELY THROUGHOUT ARE A REFERRING TO
A NEGATIVE STATE OR REFERENCE!
I’M AFRAID Mike, YOU HAVE A LOT OF MORE TIME AHEAD OF YOU, THAN JUST OF ANOTHER HOLIDAY, AND WHILE YOU ARE DESPERATELY SEARCHING IN
an empty and void state,
YOU AT THE VERY END, WILL NEVER BE IN THE POSITION EVEN TO PRODUCE ANY LITERATURE, NOT JUST BIBLICAL, WHICH CLEARLY DEFINES THAT
THE TERM
“AN EMPTY AND VOID STATE”
IS IN ANY WAY, ATTENTION MIKE PLEASE:
A POSITIVE STATE OR REFERENCE
AND NOT ALWAYS
NEGATIVE!
THE STATE YOU’RE IN NOW!
READY SET GO????
SO Mike I repeat, ALL YOUR WORK DURING YOUR HOLIDAY TO CONVINCE
ONLY YOURSELF
THAT THE VERSES OF GENESIS 1:1, and 1:2 ARE DEFINITELY PART OF THE SIX-DAY CREATION
“VERY GOOD” IS
DEBUNKED!
NOW THAT’S ONLY THE CAKE AND NOW FOR THE ICING!
https://www.thetorah.com/article/creating-order-from-tohu-and-bohu
https://hebrewwordlessons.com/2019/06/09/tohu-vvohu-formless-void-or-uninhabitable-chaos-emptiness/
https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/2014/07/29/tohu-wa-bohu-earth-was-or-became-waste-and-void/
Mike, above, you have three addresses, enter and read all about what we are discussing, IN DETAIL!
YOU WILL NOT BE IN
AN EMPTY AND VOID STATE ANYMORE PLUS THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE HASSLE TO SEARCH FOR NO USE!
here are some vital captions:
https://hebrewwordlessons.com/
Tohu has a confusing translation history. It appears 20 times in the Tanakh (Old Testament) but it has been translated into quite a few different English words. Using the NASB translation one can find numerous different words used in place of tohu: waste, waste space, futile, meaningless, empty space, nothing, confusion and chaos.
But many of these words have other Hebrew words to define the same thing:
The Hebrew word sh’mamah (8077) means “waste” or “devastation”
The Hebrew word hevel (1892) means, “meaningless” and “futile”
The Hebrew word riyk (7385) means “empty”
The Hebrew word vohu (922), as we have seen, also means “empty”
The Hebrew word ayin (369) means, “nothing”
The Hebrew word b’li’mah (1099) also means “nothing/nothingness” but it only occurs once in the Biblical text, in the above passage of Job 26
The Hebrew word m’humah (4103) means “confusion”
Chaos does not really have another Hebrew word associated with it. It stands alone. If we were to eliminate all the words that have other equivalent Hebrew words, the only word left is chaos.Probably the most common rendering of tohu as chaos occurs in Isaiah 24:
Isaiah 24:10
The city of chaos [tohu] is broken down; every house is shut up so that none may enter.
Chaos and the Uninhabitable Space
But does chaos really give us the best definition of what the author of Genesis is trying to portray? The idea seems to be that there is no order to this world, and the opposite of order is chaos. But we also get the sense that tohu is an uninhabitable space:A Continuous Struggle against Chaos
Yet as Jon Levenson of Harvard University argues,[11] God never vanquishes chaos entirely but continuously struggles with it, restrains, and keeps it at bay, to prevent the world from lapsing back into it.[12] For example, some biblical passages present the primordial waters as bound, but still existing as a potential threat should they break free:
תהלים קד:ו תְּהוֹם כַּלְּבוּשׁ כִּסִּיתוֹ עַל־הָרִים יַעַמְדוּ־מָיִם. קד:ז מִן־גַּעֲרָתְךָ יְנוּסוּן מִן־קוֹל רַעַמְךָ יֵחָפֵזוּן. קד:ח יַעֲלוּ הָרִים יֵרְדוּ בְקָעוֹת אֶל־מְקוֹם זֶה יָסַדְתָּ לָהֶם. קד:ט גְּבוּל־שַׂמְתָּ בַּל־יַעֲבֹרוּן בַּל־יְשׁוּבוּן לְכַסּוֹת הָאָרֶץ.
Ps 104:6 You made the deep cover it as a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. 104:7 They fled at Your blast, rushed away at the sound of Your thunder, 104:8 —mountains rising, valleys sinking—to the place You established for them. 104:9 You set bounds they must not pass so that they never again cover the earth.[13]
God’s battle to impose wisdom upon chaos is thus never ceasing, and humanity is meant to follow God’s lead.https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/
When we conduct a serious study in the correct usage of the Hebrew language, we find that Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1, was not written as a collection of verses which describe the original creation of God.
The sentence, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,” is an ending to God’s description of the creation of the universe. If it was intended as a part of God’s summary of the entire creation, then the second verse—”The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters”—would have been the beginning of the description of this creation. It is not. Verse 2 is a completely separate and distinct subject.
The second verse is clearly intended as a separate and distinct statement about an event which took place at great distance from the original creation.
“The earth was or became without form, and void;
wə·hā·’ā·reṣ hā·yə·ṯāh ṯō·hū wā·ḇō·hū,
The term “without form, and void” is preceded by the Hebrew word ha-ye-ta, which has been translate “was.” There is some evidence that ha-ye-ta could also be correctly translated as “became.”
It is interesting that those who have an agenda to prove that verse 2 of Genesis Chapter 1 is a part of the first verse—always translate hayeta as “was.” While at the same time they translate Genesis 19:26—where Lot’s wife turns back to look at Sodom—they translate hayeta as “became” (a pillar of salt). Both Genesis 1:2 and Genesis 19:6 use the same Hebrew word: hayeta; yet, one is translated “was” and the other, “became.”
This appears to be solely for the sake of convenience in proving that Genesis 1:2 is stating that the earth was in a state of formlessness, rather than something occurred which caused it to become formless and void.Genesis 1:2 The earth was (hayeta) without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back behind him, and she became (hayeta) a pillar of salt.
A point certain—since the Hebrew word hayeta may be translated as “became” in the context of Lot’s wife; it can also certainly be translated as “became,” in Genesis 1:2. You will read from some scholars that the Hebrew does not allow for the translation “became formless and void,” but this is simply not true. There are just as many Hebrew scholars who will adamantly declare that the Hebrew demands the translation “became.”[1]
Formless And Void Confirmed By Hebrew Scholars
One of the primary areas of disagreement between those who observe a catastrophic event having occurred at Genesis 1:2 and those who do not hold this view, is the use of the Hebrew text contained in verse 2.The term: “waste and void”, was translated from the Hebrew text, Tohu wa bohu (תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ).
This Hebrew phrase describes the condition of the earth before God began the six days of restoration (‘ā·śāh) depicted in Genesis chapter 1:3-31. There is great evidence here to conclude that the term “the earth was without form and void” (tohu v’bohu), is not simply speaking of the earth in a primitive state before God formed it for habitation. Many Hebrew scholars have written that this phrase is describing a judgment of God whereby everything on the earth was destroyed. The is indicated by many of the original ancient versions of this text, such as the Aramaic Version, the Chaldee Version, and the Septuagint Version of Genesis 1:2.
The Chaldee Version:“But the earth had become desert and empty.”[1a]
The Aramaic Version: “And the earth had become ruined and uninhabited.”[1b]
The Septuagint Version: “But the earth had become unfurnished and empty.”[1c]Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Proclaimer: Mike I took a look and no your answer is not there. I spent a wasteful 5 minutes trawling through to find it. No luck.
That’s very odd. The last page of our private Hot Seat thread has 9 posts and one plea to @admin for you to answer my question. Of those 9 posts, TWO of them are the answer to your question that you haven’t been able to find. Below is the entire last page of our private thread, cut into two screenshots. The red rectangle on the left is the answer to your question from April 18th – 6 weeks ago. The red rectangle on the right is where I reposted the same answer on May 22nd – because after 5 weeks of looking, you for some reason weren’t able to locate the rectangle on the left – even though at the time there were only 3 posts on the page, and the post you couldn’t find was the second one. 🤔
Now, as hard as it is to believe that you weren’t able to locate the second post down on the last page of the thread that only contained three posts, it’s even harder to believe when you factor in that I actually gave you the POST NUMBER in a PM over a month ago!
So 5 weeks ago, I started a PM discussion to ask you why you bailed from the discussion. You responded, 5 weeks ago, by asking if I’d answered your last question. And over a month ago, I told you I did, and even gave you the post number of my answer. And over a month ago, you said you’d take a look.
The post number that I gave you in the PM over a month ago is the post in the red rectangle to the left above… the second post on a page with only three posts…
Can you see the date and the POST NUMBER? Can you see it is the SAME post number that I gave you in the PM over a month ago?
Yet a month later, here we are, talking about how you are STILL unable to find this post – even with the actual post number and clear instructions that it is the second post on the last page of the thread! Wow.
And then, since you were still unable to locate this post, I re-posted it again, and sent you further instructions that your answer was now the second to the last post on the last page of the thread – and my new question for you was the very last post on the last page of the thread. You can see that re-post in the red rectangle to the right above. Here is the close-up of it…
Can you see the date and the post number of the re-posted answer to your question? That was two weeks ago! So now the answer you can’t seem to find is on the very last page of the thread, not once, but TWICE. And you even have the post numbers to BOTH of them! But you still couldn’t seem to find that elusive answer. So you told me I had to give you the LINK to the post. Unfortunately, your system for linking individual posts is broken, and the link takes you to the OP of the thread instead of to the post that was linked.
Of course I let you know this weeks ago too – but it apparently fell on deaf ears. And so I tried again to link it to you in the PM discussion – per your request. Of course all 4 of the links I sent you took you right to the OP of the thread, and not the post in question.
So then you tried to explain how easy it was to link a post. Here’s how that went…
In #1, after showing you that the links took you to the OP of the thread and that you need to fix that glitch on your site, I tried directing you once again to the ever-elusive answer that you’ve been unable to find for a month and a half. Notice my words… “In the meantime, once again… my answer to your question is the third post from the bottom on the very last page of the private thread, and my question to you is the second post from the bottom.”
Yet here I sit, in the process of answering a post from you in which you said… “Mike I took a look and no your answer is not there. I spent a wasteful 5 minutes trawling through to find it. No luck.”
Do you mean to tell us that you are still unable to locate the third post from the bottom on the very last page of our private thread? Seriously? 😅😂🤣
Anyway… in #2 above, you chided me for not being able to post a link, and said that a post number and page number would work just as well… “Just point me to where you answered my question. Page number and post number would also work if you don’t know how post a link.”
What!?! You mean like I did via the PM I showed above… from OVER A MONTH AGO? 🤯
Then you set out to show me just how easy it is to link an individual post… “But to post the link, just click on the post number and then copy the address in the browser address field and paste into a message.”
Yeah, I’ve done that many times, and told you that it takes you to the OP of the thread, and not the post you actually linked.
In #3 above, you gave me a demonstration of how easy it is. But after linking the POST, what was your link actually to? That’s right… the OP of the thread. 😎
So then, in #4 above – after ignoring what I’ve been telling you for weeks, and finally trying it yourself – you have your “Ah ha” moment… “I see what you mean now. It strips out the relevant data.”
I don’t know the mechanics of what it does. I just know that linking to a POST takes you to the OP of the thread – just like I’ve been telling you.
So then in #5 above, you tell me I have to put a “speech mark” around the link – whatever that is. Hey @admin, how about you just fix the glitch in your system so we don’t have to be tech experts to link a post around here?
And finally, in #6 above, without a single APOLOGY for all I went through to try to make you understand that YOUR system was broken, you again start chiding me about how this process (which would be unnecessary if you just fixed your system) might be “too hard for me to do”.
An APOLOGY was warranted, but instead I got a “you might just be too STUPID to do this extra crap because my system is broken”. 😅
Says the guy who for 6 weeks hasn’t been able to find a particular post after being told countless times the page it is on, the location on that page, and even the POST NUMBER! Yeah… I’m the stupid one. 🙄
And to make matters worse, just because YOU can’t find this post with explicit directions and a post number, you want to “tidy up” the thread and eliminate what you call “noise and useless posts”? Um… that “noise and useless posts” are where I painstakingly destroyed every argument you’ve made in that thread… so no thanks to that. I already fell for that trick once before when you moved a debate you were losing to the Flat Earth thread, knowing full well that I no longer comment on that thread – ever since your juvenile antics turned it from a respectable discussion into a joke. And now you want to just do away with all the words with which I was kicking your butt in this debate too? NO.
And so where does all this leave us today? Well, I logged in this morning to see this new PM from @admin…
So it seems that neither Proclaimer nor Admin (😉) can find this answer – and I’M the one who is going to be banned for “wasting everyone’s time”! 😅🤣
Here was my response…
Everyone can see that now even @admin has the map to my answer to Proclaimer’s question. But since Proclaimer and Admin have a very special relationship (😉), I won’t be surprised if I open HN tomorrow to find that I have been banned.
If that happens, I wish everyone here well in their future endeavors, and I pray that God bless every one of you. I joined another forum a couple of weeks ago because I was getting a feeling that this might happen. You can’t very well expose the owner of the site for being a fraud, a deceiver, a Pretender, and a scared little girl who runs away from easy questions without repercussions.
I’ve started a thread entitled (what else?) “Bible Vs Scientism” there. If any of you get to the point where you miss me, come join in the discussion over there… https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/bible-vs-scientism.205714/
So on April 17th, Proclaimer asked a question in the very last post of page 3. I answered it on April 18th, in the second post of page 4. And for 49 days, he’s been “unable” to locate an answer that was only one day and one post removed from his question – on a page that only contained 3 posts at the time. 🙄
But you know what the most disappointing part of this ordeal is? Not ONE of the other members of HN has stepped up to call out Proclaimer for this BS. Not even ONE of you has had the courage to speak up for truth and justice.
It reminds me of some other people I read about…
John 12:42-43… Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
Sad and disheartening.
Carmel: AN EMPTY AND VOID STATE” [ISN’T]… A POSITIVE STATE… AND [IS] ALWAYS
NEGATIVE!I shortened your 30 word point into something more understandable. Here is my reply…
“The burrito I scarfed down gave me severe stomach cramps until I voided my bowels, rendering them empty.”
There you go. An empty and void bowel is way more positive than a bowel filled with bacteria-ridden food that is causing you extreme pain. Here’s another…
“I saw the red Corvette sitting empty on the dealer’s lot and fell in love with it immediately.”
Again, the fact that the Corvette was empty and void of people isn’t a negative/bad thing, Carmel. In fact, if dude saw the Vette with a few stinky homeless people smoking crack in it, the fact that it WASN’T empty and void WOULD be a negative thing.
How about this… You are taking your kids to the local public pool to do a little swimming. When you show up, you guys are the ONLY ones there! Now, would you consider that empty pool that is void of other people to be a terrible and bad thing – knowing that your family would have the entire pool to yourselves? Or would prefer the pool to be filled to the brim with hundreds of other people, so you and your kids could barely even move?
Dude, sometimes empty and void is simply empty and void. Sometimes I wish Phoenix was “empty and void” of all the pollution and street lights, so I could see more than 5 stars in the night sky. If that were to happen, it certainly wouldn’t be a terrible and bad thing, would it?
FOR PRETENDER, CARMEL, AND GENE…
Revelation 21:1… And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Is John calling the current earth on which we live the FIRST earth?
You’re not going to believe this… but after 50 days of Proclaimer being unable to find an answer that was one day and one post removed from his question, and to which he’s had the actual post number for over a month, he has FINALLY located it!
Now let’s just hope it doesn’t take him another 50 days to answer my next question! 🙏🙏🙏
Carmel: AN EMPTY AND VOID STATE” [ISN’T]… A POSITIVE STATE… AND [IS] ALWAYS
NEGATIVE!I shortened your 30 word point into something more understandable. Here is my reply…
ME: WHAT’S THE USE SINCE YOU NEVER MAINTAINED WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING!
SCRIPTURES!
“The burrito I scarfed down gave me severe stomach cramps until I voided my bowels, rendering them empty.”
There you go. An empty and void bowel is way more positive than a bowel filled with bacteria-ridden food that is causing you extreme pain. Here’s another…
“I saw the red Corvette sitting empty on the dealer’s lot and fell in love with it immediately.”
Again, the fact that the Corvette was empty and void of people isn’t a negative/bad thing, Carmel. In fact, if dude saw the Vette with a few stinky homeless people smoking crack in it, the fact that it WASN’T empty and void WOULD be a negative thing.
How about this… You are taking your kids to the local public pool to do a little swimming. When you show up, you guys are the ONLY ones there! Now, would you consider that empty pool that is void of other people to be a terrible and bad thing – knowing that your family would have the entire pool to yourselves? Or would prefer the pool to be filled to the brim with hundreds of other people, so you and your kids could barely even move?
Dude, sometimes empty and void is simply empty and void. Sometimes I wish Phoenix was “empty and void” of all the pollution and street lights, so I could see more than 5 stars in the night sky. If that were to happen, it certainly wouldn’t be a terrible and bad thing, would it?
ME: YOU ARE A GENIUS WITH RESPECT TO
YOUR CARNAL-MINDED REASONING!
NOW FROM GOD’S REASONING
GO BACK AND SEARCH THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE AND FURNISH AT LEAST
ONE EXAMPLE AND JUSTIFY YOUR PERSPECTIVE!
IN THE MEANTIME READ AGAIN:
YOU IN THE VERY END, WILL NEVER BE IN THE POSITION EVEN TO PRODUCE ANY
LITERATURE, NOT JUST BIBLICAL,
Mike your own words are not considered literature at the level of
SCRIPTURE!
WHICH CLEARLY DEFINES THAT
THE TERM
“AN EMPTY AND VOID STATE”
IS IN ANY WAY, ATTENTION MIKE PLEASE:
A POSITIVE STATE OR REFERENCE
AND NOT ALWAYS
NEGATIVE!THE STATE YOU’RE IN NOW!
GOT IT WHY I WROTE IT IN THAT MANNER Mr. milk!
READY SET GO????
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel, I just typed “glad it was empty” into the search box, and here’s what I saw on the first page of results…
Should I try “happy it was empty” now? How about “thank God it was empty”?
Your claim is debunked. “Void” and “empty” are neither good nor bad in and of themselves.
Mike…..look up the word used there as “first” it actually means “foremost” or, THE ONE BEFORE, as in the former one, it’s not implying the first one “ever” created as you falsely, “assume”. But even if it was the only one ever created, that still dosen’t say it had never been reworked at different times in the past, by God, now does it? Check it out for youself Mike.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike…………gene
Hi Mike,
You: Carmel, I just typed “glad it was empty” into the search box, and here’s what I saw on the first page of results…
Mike, I REPEAT AGAIN WHAT I POSTED IN MY LAST POST I’M AFRAID!
ME: YOU ARE A GENIUS WITH RESPECT TO
YOUR CARNAL-MINDED REASONING!
NOW FROM GOD’S REASONING
GO BACK AND SEARCH THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE AND FURNISH AT LEAST
ONE EXAMPLE AND JUSTIFY YOUR PERSPECTIVE!
IN THE MEANTIME READ AGAIN:
YOU IN THE VERY END, WILL NEVER BE IN THE POSITION EVEN TO PRODUCE ANY
LITERATURE, NOT JUST BIBLICAL,
Mike your own words are not considered literature at the level of
SCRIPTURE!
WHICH CLEARLY DEFINES THAT
THE TERM
“AN EMPTY AND VOID STATE”
IS IN ANY WAY, ATTENTION MIKE PLEASE:
A POSITIVE STATE OR REFERENCE
AND NOT ALWAYS
NEGATIVE!THE STATE YOU’RE IN NOW!
TELL US Mike PLEASE:
WHY THE HELL DID YOU JUST TYPE ONLY
“glad it was empty” and not
“GLAD IT WAS EMPTY AND VOID ”
OUR SPECIFIC POINT!
NEVER MIND!
JUST READ:
There are no results for “glad it was empty and void”
Check your spelling or try different keywords
ISN’T IT THE ANSWER WHICH PRESUMABLY YOU DID TYPE FIRST AND GET? NO?
Your claim is debunked.
NOW HERE IS YOUR FAVOURITE SCRIPTURE:
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth, and made it, the very maker thereof:
he did not create it in vain:
he formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord, and there is no other.
DID YOU GET THAT SIMPLE AND CLEAR DECLARATION BY GOD HIMSELF?
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
GOD DID NOT CREATE THE EARTH IN VAIN (TOHU)
NEVER MIND
TOHU VA BOHU!
THE STATE YOU’RE IN WITH EVERY RESPECT!
CASE CLOSED!
8414. Tohu
Strong’s Concordance
tohu: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness
Original Word: תֹּהוּ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: tohu
Phonetic Spelling: (to’-hoo)
Definition: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptinessNASB Translation
chaos (1), confusion (1), desolation (1), emptiness (1), empty space (1), formless (2), futile (2), futile things (1), meaningless (2), meaningless arguments (1), nothing (2), waste (3), waste place (2).
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel: Mike, guess what I’m going to do!….
I WILL TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION FOR A CHANGE AND I ASK YOU:
FIND ANOTHER SCRIPTURE THAT PRODUCES ANOTHER SIMILAR STATEMENT LIKE
“GOD MADE/CREATED/FORMED/ESTABLISHED/FURNISHED, THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN”
READY, SET, GO!
Okay…
Isaiah 45:18… For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Of course you will cry, “Sure, there are five different words used about earth – but not HEAVEN! Therefore I win!”
And I’ll show you this one…
Deuteronomy 32:6… Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?
And you’ll cry, “Those four different words are about mankind – but not HEAVEN! Therefore I win!”
And after my eyes come back down into the forward position after rolling them so hard up into my skull, I’ll ask, “Are you REALLY claiming that the different words “created” and “made” can be used to describe the same action concerning the earth and mankind – but when it comes to the firmament over the earth, “created” MUST mean one thing while “made” MUST mean something completely different? REALLY, Carmel?”
And then you’ll spout even more bizarre nonsense that nobody here cares about. And so goes a typical “discussion” with Carmel. Round and round and round we go – where we stop, nobody knows.
Carmel: NOW, DID GOD THE FATHER, PERFECT, CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IN Genesis 1:1 PERFECT? YES OR NO?
The was no heaven or earth in Gen 1:1 – perfect or otherwise. The heaven was created on day 2, and the earth was created on day 3. And at the end of day 6, God observed all he had created, and said that it was “Very good” – not “Perfect”.
Carmel: TOHU VA BOHU…
As your own source acknowledges, the actual meaning of either word is unknown. “Empty” and “void” are the most common translations – and fit well in Gen 1:2.
“Empty” and “void” are not inherently evil or chaotic words. If your gas tank is “empty and void” and you have a long way to go, that’s bad. If your gas tank is “empty and void” when your car catches fire, that’s good.
There is no more to be said about it. You are trying to force a point that simply doesn’t exist in scripture – or in reality.
How about you work on this instead…
1. Any time the word “day” is used with a number, it always refers to a literal day. TRUE or FALSE?
2. Any time the word “day” is used with morning and/or evening, it always refers to a literal day. TRUE or FALSE?
3. Any time the word “days” is used, it always refers to literal days. TRUE or FALSE?
4. God Himself explicitly EQUATED the six days in which He created our world with the six LITERAL days the Israelites were to work before taking a day of rest. TRUE or FALSE?
ONLY HONEST, SCRIPTURAL, AND LOGICAL CONCLUSION:
The six days in which God created (as in: THEY DIDN’T EXIST BEFORE THAT TIME) the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them were six literal days – and there is absolutely nothing in scripture to suggest otherwise. TRUE or FALSE?
Gene: Mike…..look up the word used there as “first” it actually means “foremost” or, THE ONE BEFORE, as in the former one, it’s not implying the first one “ever” created as you falsely, “assume”.
Yes, the word can refer to a “previous” or “former” thing. But here is how the word is translated in the NASB, the NET, and the AKJV…
Look at all the “first” translations. The vast majority of times, the word is translated as “first” in all Bibles. And notice that the first and foremost default definition of the word is also “first”. In fact, all THREE definitions of the word begin with the word “first”.
BibleHub lists 27 different English translations – all but two of which have “first” in Rev 21:1…
https://biblehub.com/revelation/21-1.htm
So it seems to me that the most logical default translation in Rev 21:1 is indeed “first”. Now if YOU would like to offer a valid reason why it shouldn’t be translated as “first” in Rev 21:1… then I’m all ears. What is your valid SCRIPTURAL reason, Gene?
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