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TimothyVI, and eternal God can devote eternal resources to each one of us. Eternal or infinite cannot be exhausted in any way. He can even consider the quarks on each atom that makes up one of those sticks.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 20 2012,07:12) Hi T8, Thanks for your input.
I have never heard anybody say that the universe came from nothing. Can you show me where that has been stated?
Here is one.Clearly it is true that they professed themselves to be wise and became fools.
Actually this might be more brief.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 20 2012,07:12) My question is this, If complex things can only arise from things more complex still, can you offer any explanation for the actual origin of complexity.
Infinity has no origin. That is one of the properties. If it had an origin, then it would not be infinite at all.bod, the reason you attack Christians is because your book is devoted to that. Mohammed is now dead awaiting judgement as we will be judged as we all will. You don't have to join him and be a co-heir of his reward. But if you co-labour with him, then yes you will receive his reward too.
Reward:
Something given or received in recompense for worthy behavior or in retribution for evil acts.TimothyVI, Physicists usually insist that the universe had a beginning. And that there was nothing before the beginning. Although some are open to other ideas which is good.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,13:04) Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 20 2012,07:12) My question is this, If complex things can only arise from things more complex still, can you offer any explanation for the actual origin of complexity.
Infinity has no origin. That is one of the properties. If it had an origin, then it would not be infinite at all.
But this doesn't answer the question he asks, but only creates the idea of an infinitely increasing complexity the further you go back.If a person cannot understand infinity, then yes it doesn't answer it. If they can understand the concept then it explains it.
Infinity can contain an infinite amount of things and to a finite mind that is obviously too complex to understand all. However, even as finite beings, we can understand the concept, even if we do not understand all that infinity possesses. Likewise I can understand that the known universe is big, even if my brain truly doesn't grasp its scale.
It doesn't matter if we cannot fully grasp something, we can still understand it and believe it and even test it with mathematics.
If the known universe is truly beyond our minds to grasp, then how much more harder is it to understand the source of that. However, we are not required nor could we understand all about the source of everything. Instead we are only required to give honour to that source.
The evidence leads any true inquirer to the truth. And a person who doesn't want truth can always find an excuse to ignore it. Like a person with a gambling problem who spends all his money on poker machines. He will still have to face the end result of his actions even if at the time he is enjoying what he is doing.
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,01:29) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 18 2012,19:35) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 18 2012,20:13) Seriously? Are you really citing these as examples of things that cannot be explained? I guess that's the kind of ignorance a slavish commitment to Bronze Age superstition can give you.
Stuart
So you think that things just 'happened'? That there was a big bang and suddenly everything was just there, all working perfectly, every single thing? No way.Where is all the new stuff then?
What things do you mean?The explanation for why stars form is not the same as the explanation for how so many species of life came to live on earth.
Do you actually know anything about your origins, and the origins of the solar system you inhabit?
Stuart
Yes, it all came from God. God is the cause of all things, and that is believed upon in faith.
I believe in the unseen, I believe in powers, I believe in the Creator. Even though I have never seen the unseen, I know it is there.
I know what separates man from God – and that is sin.
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 21 2012,19:36) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,01:29) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 18 2012,19:35) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 18 2012,20:13) Seriously? Are you really citing these as examples of things that cannot be explained? I guess that's the kind of ignorance a slavish commitment to Bronze Age superstition can give you.
Stuart
So you think that things just 'happened'? That there was a big bang and suddenly everything was just there, all working perfectly, every single thing? No way.Where is all the new stuff then?
What things do you mean?The explanation for why stars form is not the same as the explanation for how so many species of life came to live on earth.
Do you actually know anything about your origins, and the origins of the solar system you inhabit?
Stuart
Yes, it all came from God. God is the cause of all things, and that is believed upon in faith.
I believe in the unseen, I believe in powers, I believe in the Creator. Even though I have never seen the unseen, I know it is there.
I know what separates man from God – and that is sin.
So you can't distinguish between the origins of the solar system and the mechanisms that have given rise to the variety of life on our planet.Christianity: the religion for those content with not knowing.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,17:59) Instead we are only required to give honour to that source
Why should you be required to do that?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,17:59) If a person cannot understand infinity, then yes it doesn't answer it. If they can understand the concept then it explains it. Infinity can contain an infinite amount of things and to a finite mind that is obviously too complex to understand all. However, even as finite beings, we can understand the concept, even if we do not understand all that infinity possesses. Likewise I can understand that the known universe is big, even if my brain truly doesn't grasp its scale.
It doesn't matter if we cannot fully grasp something, we can still understand it and believe it and even test it with mathematics.
If the known universe is truly beyond our minds to grasp, then how much more harder is it to understand the source of that. However, we are not required nor could we understand all about the source of everything. Instead we are only required to give honour to that source.
The evidence leads any true inquirer to the truth. And a person who doesn't want truth can always find an excuse to ignore it. Like a person with a gambling problem who spends all his money on poker machines. He will still have to face the end result of his actions even if at the time he is enjoying what he is doing.
That is a total dodge T8.
That is not even an attempt to answer my question, you merely diverted it to something else.My question is this, If complex things can only arise from things more complex still, can you offer any explanation for the actual origin of complexity.
Being infinite did not create complexity.
Tim
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,12:59) Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 20 2012,07:12) Hi T8, Thanks for your input.
I have never heard anybody say that the universe came from nothing. Can you show me where that has been stated?
Here is one.Clearly it is true that they professed themselves to be wise and became fools.
Actually this might be more brief.
Thank you for those videos T8.
They were extremely interesting. However when Mr. Krauss says that the universwe came from nothing he went on to explain that nothing meant something that we could not see but in fact is something at the quantum level.So in fact the universe came from something that we could not see.
Tim
Quote If a person cannot understand infinity, then yes it doesn't answer it. –t8
Anyone here who owns a book on infinity, put up your hand. Oh, look, my hand is in the air.
Quote If a person cannot understand infinity, then yes it doesn't answer it. If they can understand the concept then it explains it. Lets not confuse infinity with a circle. They have similarities..but…
Something feels rather circular about this whole discussion.
The universe needs a cause, because everything has a cause
God doesn't need a cause, because he is God.I totally understand the “god doesn't need a cause” idea, but then, we shouldn't demand that “everything” has a cause, because that is contradictory.
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,15:55) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,17:59) Instead we are only required to give honour to that source
Why should you be required to do that?Stuart
Hi stuUnderstand that the fact that or any man can not understand all the things he sees or are made to be understood ,so as you do you do believe in the unseen and wait for the unknown to be known,so youR faith in that knowledge in wait is like our faith but in a brut way,not refined way,
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2012,15:57) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,15:55) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,17:59) Instead we are only required to give honour to that source
Why should you be required to do that?Stuart
Hi stuUnderstand that the fact that or any man can not understand all the things he sees or are made to be understood ,so as you do you do believe in the unseen and wait for the unknown to be known,so youR faith in that knowledge in wait is like our faith but in a brut way,not refined way,
Huh?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 23 2012,19:59) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2012,15:57) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,15:55) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,17:59) Instead we are only required to give honour to that source
Why should you be required to do that?Stuart
Hi stuUnderstand that the fact that or any man can not understand all the things he sees or are made to be understood ,so as you do you do believe in the unseen and wait for the unknown to be known,so youR faith in that knowledge in wait is like our faith but in a brut way,not refined way,
Huh?Stuart
There are 9 of these videos,very interesting.
wakeup.
I disagree this video was interesting.
It was gut-wrenchingly dull and the speaker displayed the hypocrisy of doing exactly what he accused Dawkins of.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 25 2012,21:44) I disagree this video was interesting. It was gut-wrenchingly dull and the speaker displayed the hypocrisy of doing exactly what he accused Dawkins of.
Stuart
I dont expect you to agree,because you have already made up your mind before you have watched it.
But this is for the others.
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