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Pretender: FE is not my priority right now mate. Hang in there.
Really? You never post on any other threads these days, but post 10 times a day on the FE thread. And you say you’re in the process of writing a BOOK about FE. But then you also say FE isn’t your priority. Hmm…
And how long should I hang in there, Pretender? I’ve been hanging in there to hear your direct answers to these questions ever since I asked them on the “Conspiracies” thread – many months ago. You hid from them there, and so I created a private Hot Seat thread where your own rules say you HAVE TO answer them. But you broke your own rules and hid from them there too. In fact, you’re STILL breaking your own rules and hiding from them there… many months later. And so I came to your favorite thread in the whole wide world to ask the same questions… and you’re hiding from them here too! 😂
Pretender, what exactly are you so afraid of? What scares you so much about giving serious and honest answers to the questions I ask you concerning the Bible? And what should we make of a person who does everything in his power to avoid directly answering simple, straightforward questions about the Bible?
Really? You never post on any other threads these days, but post 10 times a day on the FE thread.
The other theads have been debunked or proved well and truly. Detractors are merely ignoring the proof and evidence and repeating their programmed propaganda.
The FE thread has almost got to this point too. There are still outstanding proofs for the globe and more debunks. But I imagine that there are not many more.
Once a topic becomes a writing here, I merely copy and paste answers after that from time to time. Saves lots of time. Eventually the same will happen the FE. It’s following the same pattern. Nothing too unusual here Mike apart from the topic itself.
I do a thorough job.
Here you go Mike. I’m not offering this reward, but here is a really easy experiment to perform. Live-stream it on YouTube because you are 100% confident and know the earth is flat. Can you post the link or the time of the livestream please. Thank you in advance.
Mike, show us the mountain
Matthew 4:8… The devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Do you two in the shadows think that the apostles of Jesus made this story up out of thin air? Or is it more likely that Jesus related the event to them?
The problem is your interpretation. But let’s take your reasoning with another scripture and I will follow with a statement that sounds like your statement. This should show the foolishness of your view.
Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Do you two in the shadows think that apostle John is making up this story up out of thin air? Or is it more likely that John is relating a future event regarding Jesus coming with a samurai in his mouth?
So it is obvious that the answer is you need to interpret scripture correctly. If you are untrustworthy with scripture, then you need to forgo being a teacher and become a student and learn.
If you still believe your interpretation is correct, then we only ask that you show us this mountain. You have shown us Superstition Mountain, so all you need to do is show us the mountain where you can see nearly the whole world.
Of course you won’t be able to do it because your interpretation is wrong. You are in error.
Censorship is not just against the truth
So you can title your essay, “The Stupidity of Flat Earth”, and Google will promote the crap out of you. But if you tell the TRUTH about it, you’ll be blocked or shadow banned.
And they started this algorithmic shadow banning with Flat Earth. Why do you think that is?
Flat Earth didn’t start censorship on the Internet. The reason for the censorship is because advertisers do not want their ads to appear in foolish conspiracy theories, porn, and other poor quality and nefarious content. But this is not true for all who are censored. Conservatives and Christians tend to be censored too. And DT especially because many who fact check and work at these media and social media companies are Leftists. So they take advantage of the power they have and ban political opponents and the like.
Obviously Mike not all censorship is bad. We don’t want kids accessing porn right. But the powers that be also bundle in opposing views and make out that they are extreme and need to be banned.
I wish I could just call topics FE, DT, ETC and rank for such, but G00g1e dropped the ‘don’t be evil’ mantra some years ago. They use to be an awesome company. I first got worried about their abuse of power when they proudly stated they were pr0-ab0rt10n. Much later on, the ex-CEO was responsible for the technology in Hillary C’s election campaign. Not hard to see that they are using their awesome power to alter people’s views.
How come the sun’s rays are shining upward if the Sun is above us in the dome?
Quick, go over there and see the sun on the ground of the flat earth.
This alone debunks the flat earth. Each meme posted in this topic takes one or a few minutes to post and each absolutely destroys the Flat Earth. Even if one meme stumps you Mike, it means your theory is in doubt. But the fact is, hundreds of these memes have you stumped. You have no answer. Not looking good for Flat Earth is it? That theory has been absolutely wrecked in this topic. This post is merely another slam debunk.
Mike…….if you truly believe such a mountain does exist then please take a second and tell us where it is. What’s so hard about that? The truth is you haven’t a clue where such a mountain is or even exists, do you? , why don’t you ask some of your “flat earth” buddies where such a mountain is, maybe they can help you?
Trying to make it about, did Jesus say that or not, is just another of your usual dervisions from what we are saying, because you know as well as we, there is no mountain high enough to see the whole world, and all it’s kingdoms at one time, that exists, and we are not the only ones who know that, everyone in this world knows that , except for a few of you brother conspericy “fruit cakes.”
There are hundreds if not thousands of medphors used in our scriptures, that can not be taken literlly. Is there an actual “tree” that contains the knowledge of good and evil ? , no there is not such a thing that exists, God was simply telling them , they should not try to produce from themselves the “fruit” ie. ” the Knowledge”, of good and evil. Like a tree producing fruit does , because every tree or (human being) Is known by the fruit they produce”. Just as trees are, these are all medphoric languages used in our scriptures. They are (related), in a “spritual sense”, not to be taken literly. There is no actual tree that produces the knowledge of Good and Evil, no Jesus is not a real vine, and we are not real branches, all medaphors given us for a illustration of a Spritual principle.
I would say, what Jesus was relating to was that Satan took him to a “high place” not an actual mountain , because there exists no mountain in this world today, where you can see “All” , the kingdoms of this world today. That i know of anyway.. common sense 101.
The other possibility would be that there were only just a few kingdoms of this world in that day , like just Rome and a few others, that might work for you, but it sure dosen’t work for todays world, That’s for sure.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike……….gene
Hi Gene.
This mountain would have to be much bigger than Everest. And tall mountains exist within tall mountain ranges.
Hi Mike.
What is the name of the mountain range?
BTW, Gene. From where Jesus would have been located , you could potentially see the four corners of the earth from a high hill. That is the four ancient kingdoms. Akadia to the north, Babylon to the south, etc.
Whether Jesus was high enough to see part of the territory of each of these kingdoms with Israel being the central point or whether it was a vision, one thing we know for sure, Jesus did not climb up a mountain so high that he needed an oxygen mask. Further, he didn’t see all the civilisations and nations on earth including China and India. But Mike begs to differ.
You may ask me why I even engage in this subject Gene. The reason is two-fold.
- To defend the integrity of the scriptures against false doctrines that put the fairh into disrepute.
- I enjoy a bit of light-hearted entertainment. It provides a fun break from my job of building websites. It makes me laugh a lot. A merry heart…
Thanks for changing the name of the thread to a more appropriate one, since the Biblical earth certainly hasn’t been “challenged” in this thread – as Proclaimer’s title suggested.
A reminder. The score is 999 – 0. Lest you come to the court believing you are somehow winning. Your like that person on X Factor who can’t sing but thinks he’s awesome. I also enjoy watching that too. Laughing is good for the soul.
Hey Pretender, when you address my points that I’ve had to repost a bunch of times already, we can talk more about the mountain that JESUS said the devil took him up on, okay? Here it is again… for the fifth time…
Proclaimer: You see Mike. After God made the heavens and the earth, he then created birds to fly in the expanse of heaven and he placed the sun and moon in that expanse. typically we call that the sky. It’s not a big deal Mike.
Slow down. You keep trying to tell your entire story all at once so you can skim over the important points I’m trying to make.
So far we both agree that it was the firmament that God named “heaven”, right? What about my other points in that same post that you quoted in your response, but didn’t address?
1. Can you see that the firmament supports waters that are above it? What exactly are the waters above “the sky” that are being supported by the sky?
Please address this point, Proclaimer. And remember that even if you call the firmament “sky”, the waters are ABOVE the firmament that God named “heaven”, not IN it. So what are these waters in your understanding? How do they fit into your heliocentric worldview? Thanks.
2. Also, if “heaven” already existed in Gen 1:1 like you claim, why would God have to create “heaven” on Day 2?
Please address this point, Proclaimer. Thanks.
3. Why does your interpretation rely on God creating heaven AFTER heaven already existed, God creating earth AFTER earth already existed, and God creating the sun, moon and stars AFTER they already existed?
Please make sense of this for us, Proclaimer. Thanks.
Gene: Trying to make it about, did Jesus say that or not, is just another of your usual dervisions from what we are saying…
What?!?!? 😂 So if you and I are arguing some issue, and I quote scripture and say, “Well Gene, here’s what the Bible says about it”, that’s me creating a diversion?
Gene: Is there an actual “tree” that contains the knowledge of good and evil ? , no there is not such a thing that exists, God was simply telling them , they should not try to produce from themselves the “fruit” ie.
Again… what?!? What would make you even say such a thing? Eating the REAL fruit from that REAL tree was the entire basis for Eve being tempted by the serpent, Gene. What do you think happened to make them all of a sudden realize they were naked? They produced “knowledge fruit” from themselves?
Gene: I would say, what Jesus was relating to was that Satan took him to a “high place” not an actual mountain , because there exists no mountain in this world today, where you can see “All” , the kingdoms of this world today.
The SCRIPTURAL words say it was a very high MOUNTAIN – both in Matthew 4:8 and in Luke 4:5. But I suppose that trying to use the actual scriptures is just me trying another diversion, huh? 🤔
It doesn’t matter anyway, since on a ball earth, Satan could have taken Jesus to the heights of the highest heaven, and he still wouldn’t be able to see all the kingdoms of the earth.
Gene: The other possibility would be that there were only just a few kingdoms of this world in that day , like just Rome and a few others, that might work for you…
That is a possibility, that the only kingdoms in the entire world at that time were right around Judea. But on a ball earth, you would only be able to see about 210 miles from the very top of Everest, Gene. And even the kingdoms we know about in the Bible are way more spread out than that.
So I have no idea which mountain Satan took Jesus up. Maybe look into Mount Meru – which is supposed to be a huge magnetic mountain directly under the North Star. It was featured in a bunch of ancient maps (like the ones below), but now we’re told there is no such mountain at the North Pole.
The land right around Mount Meru might have been the only places with kingdoms in Jesus’ day. And Meru might be high enough to see all of them from. But not on a ball, due to curvature. Only if the earth is flat, Gene.
It is true that the world often means the known world.
But to literally see all of the known world, you may just need to see a part of the four ancient kingdoms around Israel. That said, I am not necessarily arguing that Jesus went up a hill and got a 360 degree view of these ancient kingdoms. I’m just making the point that it could be physically possible.
In Mesopotamian cosmology, four rivers flowing out of the garden of creation, which is the center of the world, define the four corners of the world. From the point of view of the Akkadians, the northern geographical horizon was marked by Subartu, the west by Mar.tu, the east by Elam and the south by Sumer; later rulers of all of Mesopotamia, such as Cyrus, claimed among their titles LUGAL kib-ra-a-ti er-bé-et-tì, “King of the Four Corners”.
– WikipediaCan you see that the firmament supports waters that are above it? What exactly are the waters above “the sky” that are being supported by the sky?
I’m pretty sure I’ve answered this multiple times Mike.
I’m not saying I’m right because I haven’t studied this.
Earth was once a water planet with a thick atmosphere. Water exists in solid liquid, gas. God made land appear out of the water perhaps through tectonic forces. These forces are fueled by heat. And it is known that earth went through a stage of intense volcanism which would create a choking atmosphere. Perhaps the atmosphere was like the planet Venus. Clouds covered the planet right down to the ground. God cleared earth’s atmosphere to make the planet habitable. So that there was a separation of waters below and above. That is, seas clear air / firmament and clouds above. Even to this day we have water under the earth on the surface, and in the atmosphere. The waters below and above. It is this that gave rise to the sun, moon and stars being placed in the firmament when the clouds do not obscure the view. They were not visible in the sky when the atmosphere was laden with clouds and even today when it is cloudy.
Mike please read this slowly and multiple times to save repeating questions.
Can you see that God named the firmament “HEAVEN” – not “the sky”?
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Notice different translations say sky / expanse/ firmament?
Definition of the firmament
The creation of the firmament could easily be the creation of an open space, or division, between the waters covering the earth. This could follow a time when there was no clear division or open space as a watery atmosphere existed right down to the surface. In other words, the entire globe was enveloped in vapor due to excessive heat radiating from the planet. Scientific reasoning also accommodates this view in the early stages of our planet. Later on a space was created that divided the waters to below and above. As mentioned before, this clear space also placed the sun, moon, and stars into view. It doesn’t have to be a glass dome. It just means an expanse.
New International Version
So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.New Living Translation
And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens.English Standard Version
And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.Berean Standard Bible
So God made the expanse and separated the waters beneath it from the waters above. And it was so.King James Bible
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.New King James Version
Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.New American Standard Bible
God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so.NASB 1995
God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.Amplified Bible
And God made the expanse [of sky] and separated the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so [just as He commanded].Christian Standard Bible
So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above the expanse. And it was so.Holman Christian Standard Bible
So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above the expanse. And it was so.American Standard Version
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And God made the firmament, and it separated between the waters lower than the sky and between the waters that were higher than the sky, and it was in this way.Brenton Septuagint Translation
And God made the firmament, and God divided between the water which was under the firmament and the water which was above the firmament.Contemporary English Version
And that’s what happened. God made the domeDouay-Rheims Bible
And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.International Standard Version
So God made a canopy that separated the water beneath the canopy from the water above it. And that is what happened:JPS Tanakh 1917
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.Literal Standard Version
And God makes the expanse, and it separates between the waters which [are] under the expanse, and the waters which [are] above the expanse: and it is so.New American Bible
God made the dome, and it separated the water below the dome from the water above the dome. And so it happened.NET Bible
So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. It was so.New Revised Standard Version
So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.New Heart English Bible
And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse.World English Bible
God made the expanse, and divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.Young’s Literal Translation
And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.Mike…….Do you understand what medaphors are, and why they are used in our scriptures? They are used to illistrate a “spritual point”, they must be applied that way in order to get there true meaning.
Adam and Ever were not told to not “eat” of the fruit of a “real tree”, but God was telling them not to “Take” to themselves” (as you do when you eat something) , to produce from themselves the knowledge of good and evil. Like a tree that produces it’s own fruit, “Itself”.
That “potenial” was there “in” them , God placed it in them when they were created, but God was simply warning them not to take to themselves to try to produce from themselves that knowledge, but when Eve saw that, that knowledge would make her wise like God was , she ate “took to her self to produce from her self , that knowledge of good and evil herself, then she became a “tree” of the knowledge of good and evil “herself” ,and so did Adam, thats when there “eyes were opened” and they did become more like God, Just as God said, “look the man has become like us “knowing” good and evil. The word knowing there implys more then a casual acquaintice with, but a actual relationship with something, like Adam know Eve and Able was born, that implys a inimate relationship with something, so it was with the “knowledge” of good and evil, which all humanity has experienced sense then. But the question remains was it in the plan of God for us in the beginning, the answer is yes it was, and he simply “used” Satan as a catalyst to speed up , what would have happened eventually anyway.
God wanted us all to experience for ourselves the knowledge of good and evil, inorder for us to be more like him. IT was his plan, even before he ever created a single human being on this earth. He knew what man would do becaused he created us this way right from the start. Satan was just an instrument in his hands, to speed up, bringing about his purposes in all mankind, for our ultimate good, IMO.
Peace and love to you all and yours Mike…………gene
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