1 Timothy 6:13-16

So the paradox for you Is, is that John, Paul, and Timothy believed differently to you. John and Paul's teachings are very clear and they don't agree with you.

Bible's say that Jesus has an “indestructable life.” (NIV, NWT, etc)
(Lit “indissoluble life”) (Heb 7:16)

“Immortal” means “not subject to death, cannot die.”

If Jesus has an “indestructable life” he has a life that can't be destroyed. A few verses later, it says “He is always alive.” (Heb 7:25)

So, Nick, either you hold that Jesus and Jehovah are the same person (a trinity I guess) who are immortal, [because both Jehovah and Jesus are immortal, and this scripture says that he alone has immortality, or the Bible is actually speaking about Jesus, as the previous verse actually says:

. . .until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality,

If this verse is referring to Jehovah, then that other scripture which says Jesus has an indestructable life, is wrong, or Jesus is the same person as Jehovah.
Or, this verse is speaking of Jesus in comparison with other kings, lords. It is obvious that the king of eternity is immortal. So obvious, it's beyond considering.
Compared to the other kings, lords, it was Jesus alone who had immortality.

In view of these things and what you believe Nick, I'm not sure how you could see this otherwise.
It is true that on first glance, whenever a scripture speaks about someone alone having something, we immediately think of Jehovah. But given the other scriptures, and the preceding verse, we must conclude it is speaking of Jesus, in comparison with other rulers or potentates, Jesus alone fit this description.

david

David

Amazing!

I actually agree with you.

And the key to these verses is that he is “dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:”. What is the light which no mine can see that Yeshua dwells in?

We know it isnt Yeshuas, for we have seen his light.

It is the Fathers light!

Yet Paul speaks earlier in chapter 1:16,17 who this King of Kings is…

1 Tim1:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The context clearly shows Paul saying Jesus is the King for he says we should believe on him to life “everlasting” and immediatly follows with “Now unto the King Eternal“.

Hi Nick. You say “Not so,” but in this post at leasty, you say nothing to explain why “not so.”
Immortal means cannot die.
Jesus life is indestructable, as many Bible's say. It was not always this way, for he did die, for us, but he was granted immortality by his Father after proving faithful in all manner of way.

I'll check your next post.

Your last words are very telling. Seems very plain, you say. As I mentioned in my first post on this, I said: “It is true that on first glance, whenever a scripture speaks about someone alone having something, we immediately think of Jehovah. ” At first glance, it does seem very plain, true Nick.
But, given that Jesus has immortality, you are definitely wrong.

If using one scripture that speaks about the same thing to explain another scripture is what you consider “inferred proofs” then I cannot help you. You are lost.

If you are saying that Jesus life is “indestructable” (Lit “deathlessness”) as the scripture in Heb 7 says, and that Jehovah is obviously immortal,

and you say that this scripture says that Jehovah alone is immortal speaking of everyone in the universe and says he alone is immortal, then you might as well jump into the trinitarian camp, because if Jehovah alone is immortal, (as the scripture in question says) and if Jesus has an “indestructbable” life, then where does that leave us?

Look at that scripture again. First glances are of no help to us. Please attempt to disregard any past ideas of how you plainly saw this scripture the first time you read it and look at what it actually says.

1 TIMOTHY 6:13-16
“In the sight of God, who preserves all things alive, and of Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders that you observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. To him be honor and might everlasting. Amen.”

It is comparing Jesus to human rulers. Compared to other kings and lords Jesus alone has immortality, or as another verse puts it, an “indestructable” life.
Jesus truly is, as Paul wrote, “King of those [humans] who rule as kings and Lord of those [humans] who rule as lords.” Yes, compared to them, Jesus is the “only Potentate.” Jesus has been given “rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.” (Daniel 7:14) No human potentate can make that claim.

As for him dwelling in unapproachable light:

ACTS 9:3
“Now as he was traveling he approached Damascus, when suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him,”

ACTS 22:6
““But as I was journeying and drawing close to Damascus, about midday, suddenly out of heaven a great light flashed all around me,”

REVELATION 1:16
“And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was as the sun when it shines in its power.”

And as for “whom not one of men has seen or can see” it is speaking of:

JOHN 14:19
“A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but YOU will behold me, because I live and YOU will live.”

MATTHEW 25:37
“Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink?”

1 PETER 3:18
“Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”

Granted, his anointed disciples would behold Jesus after their own death and subsequent resurrection to heaven as spirit creatures. (John 17:24) But no man on earth would see Jesus in his glorified state. Hence, it can truthfully be stated that since Jesus’ resurrection and ascension, “not one of men” has actually seen Jesus.

About him alone having immortality:
: “We know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” (Romans 6:9)

Jesus is the first one to be described in the Bible as receiving the gift of immortality. Indeed, at the time of Paul’s writing, Jesus was the only one who had attained indestructible life.

It should also be kept in mind that it would have been wrong for Paul to say that Jehovah God alone had immortality, since Jesus too was immortal when Paul wrote those words. But Paul could say that Jesus alone was immortal in comparison with earthly rulers.

The other kings and lords, because of being mortal, die, even as did also the high priests of Israel. The glorified Jesus, God’s appointed High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, however, has “an indestructible life.”—Heb 7:15-17, 23-25.

The word “indestructible” here translates the Greek term a·ka·ta′ly·tos, meaning, literally, “indissoluble.” (Heb 7:16, ftn) The word is a compound of the negative prefix a joined to other words relating to a “loosening down,” as in Jesus’ statement regarding the loosening down or throwing down of the stones of the temple at Jerusalem (Mt 24:1, 2), as well as in Paul’s reference to the loosening down of the earthly “tent” of Christians, that is, the dissolving of their earthly life in human bodies. (2Co 5:1) Thus, the immortal life granted Jesus upon his resurrection is not merely endless but is beyond deterioration or dissolution and is beyond destruction.

Yes, Nick, very good, I did say that, just like the scripture in question says one thing, but we can't just look at the one thing without considering the preceeding verse or the other scriptures that explain it, or in this case, my other words with explain further:

And:

And:

It sometimes seems as though you like to try to prove me wrong just for the sake of saying I'm wrong. Why is that?

Hi david,
Men go to heaven, or only the JWs?
Show me.

You say these words. Yet, Jesus has an “indestructable” life, and as you say:

Others “ are fitted for immortality“

So, you say “God alone has immortality” and others “are fitted with immortality,” and “granted immortality.”

You really can't see how you are contradicting yourself.

God alone has “x.”
Others have “x.”

This is a contradiction.

Why don't you explain to everyone why this isn't a contradiction if you don't believe it is.

YOu say others have been “granted immortality.” Does this not mean they were given immortality and therefore are immortal?
Or are they given immortality, but they're not really immortal?
Is that what you believe?

How can one be “granted immortality” but not be immortal?

Please answer that. And if you cannot, I urge you to consider the possibility that you have made the common mistake (one I made at first with this scripture) of reading it far too quickly and not really thinking about what it is saying.

david

So, someone that is given immortality or 'granted' immortality, as you said, does not possess it?

If I give you something do you not possess it? It think you are going way past anything the scriptures actually say. Jesus is immortal, and yes, this was given to him. Therefore, God is not the only one to have or even possess immortality. Therefore, your understanding of this scripture is not compatible with what the Bible says.

Yes, we are not born with immortality, and we don't have an immortal soul.

But if you are not born with something, does this mean you can't possess it?
You weren't born with your house. Do you possess your house?
You weren't born with knowledge. Do you possess any knowledge?
You weren't born with [insert almost anything.] Yet you possess much.

Possess means: Have as property, own. Have as an ability, quality or characteristic.

I think you may be confusing immortality with the idea of Jehovah being king of eternity, existist forever in both directions. He alone is “king of eternity.” But others are said to be immortal.

So again, based on what the actual words do say and not on what you attempt to insert into the verses, it seems you must be wrong.

The verse does not speak of someone who “alone is immortal of his own nature.”
It simply plainly says “the one alone having immortality, [lit. “deathlessness.”]”

1 TIMOTHY 6:14-16
“. . .that you observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. . . .”

Jesus is the “king of kings and lord of lords.” (Rev 19:16)
He is also called “lord of lords and king of kings.” (Rev 17: 14)

Of course, Jehovah is king over all. But Jesus is king over other kings.

And similarly, of course Jehovah is obviously a potentate (ruler). Yet, Jesus is too: (Dan 7:14)

And similarly, Jehovah has or possesses immortality.
Yet, we know Jesus does too. Yes, he was given it, but this does mean he possesses it. He has it. It's his.

Since it says that this one in question “alone” has immortality, it is not speaking of Jehovah God in comparison to every other being in existence, for we know this would be incorrect.

It is in fact speaking of Jesus in comparison to all other rulers, Lords, kings, who have ruled. Compared to them, Jesus is the only potentate, the only one of them having immortality. He does now dwell in unapproachable light. (Acts 9:3; Acts 22:6; Rev 1:6)

You have said:
“God alone is immortal” and “He alone POSSESSES immortality.”

Yet, you have also said:
“we are . . . given it [immortality.]”

The scripture in question simply says that he is the one “alone HAVING” immortality.

English dictionaries tell us that whether we are given something or whether we possess something, either way, we “have” it.

So, although I realize you are trying very hard to get around this by changing words (first, saying, we are “granted” immortality, now saying God alone “possesses” immortality) the fact remains that I own many dictionaries and know what these words mean.

How can one be “given” or “granted” something, but not “have” it?

I underlined it so you wouldn't miss it, yet somehow….

Hi david,
Philosophical points do not add much.
The verse seems to relate to God obviously to me.
The point is not whether or not it could relate to Jesus as well.
No because it would add a point of confusion to the simple obvious meaning.