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Is Jesus the Logos?

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The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

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  • April 6, 2024 at 12:01 pm#946292
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Danny,

    Did you noticed “hell” (a place of damnation/eternal torment) isn’t mentioned in the Tanakh (aka OT)? Do I “fear” Hell as understood by modern religion, NO. You obviously read my comment to Gene, did Jesus fulfill all these requirements? Can Jesus be the “messiah” if one of these requirements hasn’t been fulfilled? Think my friend, do you believe what man has told you to believe or do you believe what God has said?

    April 6, 2024 at 7:56 pm#946293
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi all,

    There is misunderstanding for many of the final fate of the lost. May these explanations help us.

    God bless.

     

     

    Christ’s Meaning of “Eternal” Fire, Punishment, Damnation

    Christ thrice speaks of the doom of the wicked as being, or involving, something “eternal.” His three important warning statements are: CFF1 288.3

    (1) Mark 3:29—“He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost .. is in danger of eternal damnation 2 [aioniou kriseos, “eternal judgment”].” CFF1 288.4

    (2) Matthew 25:46—“These shall go away into everlasting punishment [kolasin aionion] but the righteous into life eternal [zoen aionion].” (Cf. Paul, 2 Thessalonians 1:9) CFF1 288.5

    (3) Matthew 25:41—“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire [to pur to aionion], prepared for the devil and his angels.” CFF1 288.6

    In the first instance there is a distinct and consummating act, coupled with endless duration of result—the sentence being everlasting in its consequences. It is the sin that throughout the ages remains unpardoned. 3 In the second, the “punishment” and the suffering are not identical—the punishment is likewise eternal in its effects whereas the suffering ends in utter abolition, or cessation, of being. And in the third, the fire is called “everlasting” because its results are everlasting. It is not simply a fire, but “the fire”—the one “prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). It ends in destruction and ashes. CFF1 288.7

    Picture 1: Conflict Between Christ and Satan:
    The Conflict of the Ages Has Been Between Satan, the Rebel and Source of Evil, and Christ, the Creator and Redeemer, Judge and Coming King.
    Page 289

    1. MEANING DETERMINED BY NOUN TO WHICH ATTACHED
    In each of these passages the Greek word for “everlasting,” or “eternal,” is the adjective aionios—derived from the noun aion, an “age” or “era”—the word itself leaving the time limit of the age undefined. The late Bishop H. C. G. Moule, of Durham, in his Outline of Christian Doctrine, soundly declared that the term of duration expressed by aionios must always be sought in the noun to which it is attached, not in the modifying aionios itself. Therefore, to determine its true meaning we must carefully trace its usage in Scripture, and seek out the noun it modifies. CFF1 289.1

    God, and things divine, are incontestably endless—thus involving the full and unrestricted meaning. But earthly things will not last beyond the earth in its present age or form. Thus the aionion Mosaic statutes and the aionion Aaronic priesthood belonged to a passing dispensation—and ceased. The adjective aionios there obviously stood for a limited time only “age long”—the noun it modified determining the term of duration. CFF1 290.1

    On the contrary, “life eternal” (zoen aionion), for the righteous, is used more than forty times. That life will be unending. But in contrast, the runaway slave, Onesimus (Philemon 1:15), who was to serve his master “for ever” (likewise aionion), was to serve only as long as he lived. Clearly the substantive, or noun, determines the meaning. CFF1 290.2

    2. DIVINE ACTIONS OR ACTIVITIES MAY BE TERMINABLE
    Christ clearly taught that divine conditions or Persons abide unendingly, whereas divine actions or activities may be terminable, for example, punishment (Matthew 25:46); judgment (Hebrews 6:2); sin (Mark 3:29); destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9); salvation (Hebrews 5:9); redemption and fire (Matthew 18:8; Matthew 25:41; Jude 1:7). These expressions obviously do not mean endless punishing, judging, sinning, destroying, saving, redeeming. Endless salvation is not endless saving, but represents a completed work of grace. CFF1 290.3

    The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was not endless in its process, but was completely endless in its results. The “unquenchable fire” that “burns up” the chaff, will not keep that chaff forever burning. Again we see that the noun to which the modifying aionios is attached, automatically determines the unlimited or the limited meaning—such as “eternal inheritance” (Hebrews 9:15), or “everlasting [eternal] gospel” (Revelation 14:6). CFF1 290.4

    Thus in Matthew 25:46 the living state of the righteous is endless, and the death—punishment state, or condition, of the wicked, produced by the process of destruction, is a death state as endless as the contrasting life state is endless. But the process is not eternal, only the result. We must therefore concur with Bishop Moule and other recognized scholars that the noun to which aionios is attached is the determinative factor. In one case it is terminable; in another it is interminable.

    https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/953.2036

    April 8, 2024 at 5:08 am#946294
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    Many of your objections can be answered by the biblical fact
    that Jesus Christ will come again to start
    the thousand-year reign here on this earth.
    In this time period many prophecies will be fulfilled.
    You never thought about that?

    A little research would answer all your objections.
    Anyway, trust in the Bible. God didn’t mislead us.
    He was and is the sovereign Lord of history.

    April 8, 2024 at 1:44 pm#946295
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Danny,

    You: Many of your objections can be answered by the biblical fact that Jesus Christ will come again to start the thousand-year reign here on this earth. In this time period many prophecies will be fulfilled. You never thought about that?

    Me: It’s what I used to believe, until I started verifying what I was told is “truth.”

    Explain Isaiah 11:12 (“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”) and how it factors into this coming “millennial age.” The Messiah is to gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. This passage is speaking of both kingdoms – Israel and Judah, North and South; since the Jewish people reject Jesus, how does the Jesus messiah gather these people back to Israel? At this point, for rejecting Jesus, wouldn’t they be in “hell”? Who will be gathered; the “converted” Jew? But wait, didn’t Paul say there were neither Jew nor Greek (gentile)? Which is it, are Jews and gentiles separate or not?

    No one has been able to explain how Jesus could possibly be the messiah when he isn’t a biological descendant/seed of David. Jesus, according to both Matthew and Luke, was conceived of the spirit; which excludes Joseph as the father of Jesus AND it was God who told David in 2 Samuel 7:12-13 that David’s kingdom would continue on thru his son Solomon forever! This would mean the Messiah would have to come thru this lineage…PERIOD!! There is no question to the meaning of what God spoke to David or are you saying God broke HIS promise to David? You must reject the words of God to continue to accept Jesus as the messiah; and you say I’m in trouble if I don’t believe in the Jesus.

    April 9, 2024 at 5:51 am#946296
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    I believe my Bible. I don’t trust you. I believe you are one of them lying freemasons/servants of the devil!!

    April 9, 2024 at 11:00 am#946297
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DT,

    You: The question still stands, how can Jesus be the messiah when his biological father isn’t of the line of David, the line of Solomon, or a descendant of Abraham;

    when Jesus’ “father” is the spirit?

    I REPEAT WHAT I SAID IN MY POST: 946277

    TRUTH HURTS!!!!

    ME: SO IS THAT HOW YOU BELIEVE IN A GOD WHO IS OMNIPOTENT???

    YOU SIMPLY CONCLUDED THAT GOD IS NOT CAPABLE OF BEING HIMSELF THE BIOLOGICAL FATHER OF HIS SON IN THE LINE OF DAVID, THE LINE OF SOLOMON, OR A DESCENDANT OF ABRAHAM, EVEN WITHOUT THE LEAST INVOLVEMENT OF THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS OF THIS SATANIC WORLD!

    AM I RIGHT???

    DT. GET THIS INTO YOUR CORRUPTED WORLDLY WISDOM ONCE AND FOR ALL!

    THAT FLESH AND ITS PROCESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD’S WORK,

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE/EXISTENCE TO ALL HIS WORK!

    Jeremiah:27Behold I am the Lord the God of all flesh: shall anything be hard for me?

    Me:: IS ISAAC BORN THROUGH NORMAL HUMAN INTERCOURSE?

    You: Why do you keep placing the Creator of all on the same level as fake Greek and Roman gods who impregnate mortal women?

    IF YOU REALLY ARE “A DESIRETRUTH”,  IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE APPROPRIATE  TO SAY A MERE

    YES or NO!

    INSTEAD, YOU OPTED TO PLAY WITH WORDS, WHICH PROVES THAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN SMELLING THE TRUTH, THE FACT THAT YOU ARE AS YOU PROCLAIM YOURSELF YOU ARE

     “DESIRETRUTH”

    You: Again read chapter 18 and 21 of Genesis and let your mind figure it out…

    it’s not that hard.

    Wait, you have yet to prove that it was the spirit of God who impregnated Sarah;

    where is the scriptural evidence it wasn’t Abraham who got Sarah pregnant.

    ME: WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS ABRAHAM WHO GOT SARAH PREGNANT?

    THE FACT THAT YOU NEVER PRODUCED ANY!

    You: After all, didn’t Abraham copulate with Hagar at the “ripe old age” of 86, baring him a son, Ishmael?

    IT LOOKS TO ME THAT, THOUGH THERE IS SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE, THAT ABRAHAM COPULATED WITH HAGAR, THE FACT THAT YOU NEVER PRODUCED IT, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE

    IT CONTRADICTS YOU!!!

    SINCE THERE’S NOT EVEN A MERE SIMILAR HINT IN THE CASE OF ISAAC, IN FACT, THERE’S MORE  EVIDENCE NOT ONLY IN SCRIPTURE BUT ALSO IN JEWISH LITERATURE THAT ISAAC IS MORE A SON OF GOD THAN A SON OF BARAHAM!

    So Abraham didn’t have a problem making babies ….

     YOUR COMMENT IS NOT JUSTIFIED! AFTER THE AFFAIR WITH HAGAR, THE LAST SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURE BEFORE ISAAC’S DIVINE CONCEPTION.

    You: Haven’t forgotten, still waiting for how Jesus,

    conceived of the spirit, could possibly be the Messiah when he doesn’t fulfill the simple requirement of being of the seed (biological descendent) of David.

     

    JUST READ WHAT I SAID IN THE POST #946209

    Mary’s husband Joseph, who was Heli’s son-in-law,

    became Heli’s legal son to continue Heli’s family line.

    The point of all of this is that in the culture of ancient Israel, inheritance from father to son was so significant and essential that,

    FOR ALL LEGAL INTENTS AND PURPOSES,
    Jesus was Joseph’s son,

    even if He was not Joseph’s biological son.

    Then there’s also the case of a stepson who took on

     the LEGAL status of his stepfather.

    Hence: Jesus can be recognized as

     “Solomon’s son”

    through Jesus’ step-father, Joseph.

    Matthew’s purpose is to prove to the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah. The Jews would have recognized from this genealogical list that Jesus had

    the LEGAL right to inherit the throne of David.
    Luke’s purpose was just to show from Mary’s genealogy that she came from the blood-line of David which showed that

    Jesus was a BLOOD-LINE descendant of David.

    The scepter and throne of David and Solomon, descendants of Judah, will come to the

    Messiah Jesus, who will rule and reign forever:

    The scepter and throne are Jesus’ legal inheritance, through his earthly paternal lineage.

    But for YOU who has a problem with Jesus’ not being a biological descendant of Solomon, through Joseph,

    the scepter also is Jesus’ biological inheritance, since

    He is a direct descendant of King David,

     through his maternal lineage.

    You: I know, my questions are meant to be ignored 

    ???????????????????

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 10, 2024 at 5:50 am#946298
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Danny,

    Once again you have brought your spiritual intellect; proving once again you don’t know why you believe what you believe.

    What does freemasonry have to do with anything?!?! Noahide is what I would identify with and freemasonry and Noahide are not the same; in fact, I would say they’re polar opposites. Look up what Noahide is; you might learn something.

    Also, you realize I am quoting from the same book you supposedly believe in or is it the last half you believe in and the front half is pointless? You can literally look up those references to see what they say; but I’m a liar, guess it’s easier to falsely accuse someone than to spend some time studying the material yourself. Beginning to wonder if you know what liar means. You don’t need to trust me, just as you shouldn’t blindly follow your religious leaders, no matter how much earthly education they have; you do, however, need to listen to what God said and HE spoke in the Tanakh.

    April 10, 2024 at 6:19 am#946299
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

    April 10, 2024 at 6:46 am#946300
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Danny,

    Prove Jesus is the messiah spoken of in the Tanakh; the fact Jesus isn’t a biological descendant of David and Solomon is the most glaring evidence that eliminates him as being the true messiah. The last I checked the spirit isn’t human and both Matthew and Luke tell us Jesus’ father is the spirit.

    Settle this with facts!

    April 10, 2024 at 8:03 am#946301
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Carmel,
    You: I REPEAT WHAT I SAID IN MY POST: 946277 TRUTH HURTS!!!!
    Me: You have to present truth first.

    You: YOU SIMPLY CONCLUDED THAT GOD IS NOT CAPABLE OF BEING HIMSELF THE BIOLOGICAL FATHER OF HIS SON IN THE LINE OF DAVID, THE LINE OF SOLOMON, OR A DESCENDANT OF ABRAHAM, EVEN WITHOUT THE LEAST INVOLVEMENT OF THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS OF THIS SATANIC WORLD!
    Me: No, because that’s not what he told David.

    You: FLESH AND ITS PROCESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD’S WORK
    Me: Last I checked HE worked specifically through mankind to accomplish HIS will.

    You: YOU ARE NOT EVEN SMELLING THE TRUTH
    Me: Can one smell an “idea”?!? Asking for a friend.

    You: WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS ABRAHAM WHO GOT SARAH PREGNANT?
    Me: You are the one who claimed it was God who impregnated Sarah. It’s not up to me to disprove you, you made the claim; prove it!

    You: IT LOOKS TO ME THAT, THOUGH THERE IS SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE, THAT ABRAHAM COPULATED WITH HAGAR, THE FACT THAT YOU NEVER PRODUCED IT, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IT CONTRADICTS YOU!!!
    Me: Since there is scriptural evidence (and you admit there is) Abraham got Hagar pregnant, how exactly have I contradicted myself?!? Confused!

    You: AFTER THE AFFAIR WITH HAGAR
    Me: How can Abraham getting Hagar pregnant be an “affair” when Sarah told him to sleep with her (Gen 16)?

    Concerning your last bit of drivel, Luke goes through David’s son Nathan to get to Jesus through Mary and therefore is irrelevant as the lineage to the Messiah is through Solomon per God. Luke is a liar. The account from the writer of Matthew is just as wrong because he puts Jesus’ lineage through Jeconiah, who God said was to be remembered as childless. Matthew is a liar. Unless you can give scriptural proof Jechoniah’s kingship was restored, I’ll go with what God actually said. Never mind the FACT Jesus is not a biological (seed) descendant of David and Solomon since he was “conceived” of the spirit. The words are simple, but you must do this “dance of justification” so your religious belief won’t crumble; except it does under the weight of the lies within it.

    If you ignore a lie, does it make it truth?

    April 11, 2024 at 4:14 am#946302
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Danny,

    YOU:

    John 1:4 speaking about the Word:
    In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    John 5:26
    For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    Jesus is the Word. He has life in HIMSELF.

    ME:

    I’d like to first highlight that the Father gave to the Son to have life in himself.

    And what do we know of, that God also gave?

    John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it ABODE UPON HIM.

    And what does the Spirit do?

    Ephesians 5:For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Romans 8:10 And if Christ (anointed one of the Spirit) be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit IS LIFE BECAUSE OF righteousness.

    The Spirit causes righteousness WHICH BRINGS FORTH LIFE.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth, I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him. 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Our Creator gave a promise concerning ONLY ONE man, a man who would fulfill our Creator’s covenant through His Spirit aboding in him, which was a calling to righteousness, a GLORY our Creator was giving ONLY to him.

    The Spirit that came to abode in him brings forth the fruit of all righteousness and the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    As you provided Danny, “so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself”.

    According to scripture, life comes through righteousness and righteousness is the fruit of God’s Spirit right? and God gave His Spirit to abode in Jesus, a calling to righteousness, therefore he gave Jesus  thus to have life in himself through His Spirit aboding in him. 

    April 11, 2024 at 5:46 am#946303
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny,

    I want to speak further about the verse you spoke of and look now at the surrounding context and apply it also to my last post and speak to this all leading us to THE WORD.

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

    Romans 5:9 The fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, RIGHTEOUSNESS and truth.

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained, whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Jesus IS NOT our CREATOR, he is a man who has been ordained by our Creator since before the world even began. He is a man himself who received God’s Spirit, a calling to righteousness, to then judge the world in that righteousness and reward believers with the Spirit to which causes righteousness and brings forth eternal life.

    God PROMISED eternal life before the world began.

    The Spirit is life because of righteousness and thus a PROMISE of eternal life is a PROMISE of God’s Spirit. 

    This is the gospel, this is the good news, this is THE WORD. 

    This WORD was made true in Jesus at the river Jordan and then upon him rising from the dead receiving THE PROMISED SPIRIT/this day have I begotten thee. 

    The WORD spoken by the prophet Isaiah to which God had declared from the beginning and the reason why God had made all things in the first place (John 1:2-3) was made true in Jesus at the river Jordan, this was the beginning of the PROMISED WORD fulfilled, the WORD fulfilled for people to be a witness to and then a witness later when it was fulfilled again when he rose from the dead. Not only was this the beginning of the WORD made true, it then was the beginning of the PROMISED WORD being preached by Jesus (John 1:1).

    Jesus taught that a man must be born of the Spirit to enter into God’s eternal kingdom. 

    Jesus taught that we would be baptized as he was baptized and that we would drink of the cup of the One Spirit as he drinks of but to sit to his right or to his left in the kingdom was up to the Father.

    Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    It’s not about believing that Jesus pre-existed as our Creator speaking creation into existence. It’s about God’s WORD before the world even began, believing that the Father came to dwell in Jesus of Nazareth to which causes, righteousness unto eternal life. With that righteousness Jesus was able to obey all of God’s commands denying his own will and conquer his weak mortal flesh, for the power of God’s Spirit in him superseded overall other powers.

    Jesus became the example of the works of God’s Spirit, that it does cause one to be able to be led in all of God’s ways. In such we are then justified as Jesus is proof of the fruit of God’s Spirit in man, righteousness unto eternal life. 

    Danny,  Isaiah 11 tells us that it is a man who is judging and rewarding us with life through being led by our Creator’s Spirit that is aboding in him, “those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God”.  

    Jesus has the authority to judge and reward others with the Spirit and thus eternal life because the Spirit is aboding in him. Exactly why we are told that God has given him to have life in himself.

    God is Spirit, God is Righteous and God is Life. His WORD from the beginning, even before the world was, is Him, the Promise that He will abode in us, beget us with His Spirit. 

    Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren. We are to be conformed to the image of the Son and Paul directly gives us the image of the Son, it is one who is led by the Spirit of God, it is one where the Spirit is aboding in you being a witness to your spirit that you indeed are a child of God.

    ONLY Jesus however was begotten of God’s Spirit called to righteousness TO fulfill God’s covenant being for a light to the world. This was a glory promised to only one man, a man chosen from among the people to whom God had created and given the breath of life to and a spirit to walk therein. 

    April 11, 2024 at 6:30 am#946304
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @ All

    I called on the name of Jesus Christ for salvation.
    I’ve committed many sins. The struggle was real.
    Back-and-forth. Back-and-forth. Back-and-forth.
    But know I feel peace inside.

    April 11, 2024 at 2:57 pm#946305
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny and All,

    Danny, I am happy to hear that you are finding peace in your struggles through Jesus Christ.

    Just want to speak to everyone regarding your words, “I called on the name of Jesus Christ”

    Jesus name means- YHVH is salvation

    Christ means -anointed

    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord YHVH is upon me because YHVH hath ANOINTED me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn.

    In Luke 4, Jesus quoted the above concerning himself having been fulfilled.

    Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles. 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    The child born, Jesus of Nazareth, was recognized by Simeon through God’s Spirit as the Son of Man who was promised to one day be anointed of the Spirit of YHVH in order to fulfill God’s covenant, a child who would one day be for a light unto both Jews and Gentiles where he’d deliver captives, where he would bring forth salvation.

    In TRUTH, calling upon the name of Jesus Christ means that you believe that the Spirit of YHVH did come to dwell in the man Jesus, for the purpose (anointing) that through YHVH’s Spirit aboding in him he would bring forth our salvation.

    Jesus’s name means- YHVH is salvation 

    Christ means -anointed

    Jesus was anointed of the Spirit of YHVH which caused our salvation. 

    No wonder, for the fruit of God’s Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth and it was begotten in Jesus, where he is a promised firstborn of many brethren. 

    We have salvation through God’s Spirit having come to abode in Jesus wherein such opened the path for God’s Spirit to then come to dwell in us. Salvation/deliverance and eternal life is through God’s Spirit because it causes righteousness and where there is righteousness there is eternal life.

    April 11, 2024 at 11:47 pm#946306
    T3
    Participant

    @Jodi: Hear, hear!

    April 12, 2024 at 1:32 am#946307
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T3…..AMEN TO THAT, Jodi nailed it again.

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

    April 12, 2024 at 2:28 am#946308
    Jodi
    Participant

    Thank you T3 and Gene!

    Hi DT,

    At this point, as you continue to show your unbelief and want to debate to that unbelief I believe you really should be moving to the Skeptics forum and look to discuss this over there.

    Or might I suggest DT starting a 1:1 debate thread with individual people where you can both freely choose to debate over all that you like.

    I know that we have unfinished business but I am not going to continue debating with you on this thread.

    This particular thread now seems like a one stop shop for all topics up for debate, the fault of all of us it seems and I think we should try to get back to discussing different topics as much as possible within an appropriate thread.

     

    April 12, 2024 at 5:01 am#946309
    Berean
    Participant

    To all

     

    ….AND THE WORD WAS GOD.

    God bless

    April 13, 2024 at 5:13 am#946310
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @jodi

    Hi Jodi,

    You: Jesus name means- YHVH is salvation
    Christ means -anointed
    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord YHVH is upon me because YHVH hath ANOINTED me…

    Me: I believe that. Even Trinitarians believe that. (I’m not a Trinitarian.)

    God bless

    April 15, 2024 at 5:21 am#946319
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @jodi

    Our salvation from sin is only possible because of the precious blood of Jesus Christ that was lovingly shed for all mankind!
    (Ephesians 1:7, 1 Peter 1:18-19, Revelation 1:5)

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