Hi Mike,

This is what I was first addressing in my next post leading up to Proverbs 8.

1 Chronicles 17, “And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build me an house, and I will s…[Read more]

Mike:  Hey Proclaimer, which ONE of the up arrows in the right image point to the throne of God in heaven?

 

Proclaimer:  All of them Mike.

Wrong.  God dwells on a throne that is surrounded by the thrones of 24 elders.  That throne is in a specific location.  And that location cannot possibly be in the direction of all of those arrows, since…[Read more]

Hi Mike,

As I am working on my next post to you in response to Proverbs 8 directly,  I decided to check the thread again after my last post.

Scripture doesn’t have to state, when it comes to declaring Jesus as a firstborn, that it is unto the new creation, the context established beforehand makes it completely obvious.

In Revelation 3 just…[Read more]

Danny, you should just admit that eyes are not the purveyors of truth. Your are just advertising to the general public that you are a simpleton. I think if you were humble this would not be an issue at all because you would be wise. But uou choose to be foolish about this andcI respect that you have chosen this. But I am free to debunk your assertions too.

All of them Mike. If you follow any of these arrows, reach the end of the universe and to God as he exists outside his creation.

He also dwells inside his creation via his Spirit. Do he can be inside every atom.

He is eternal.

Whereas  your mind is limited with 2d understanding. And uour misunderstandings come from 2d maps and diagrams that…[Read more]

Jodi: Hi LU,

I noticed what you said to Mike, your comparison of Israel and YHVH…

So yes, Israel is one person Jacob, and then Israel also represents Jacob and his children. 

So if we were to make a direct comparison,

YHVH is one person and then YHVH also represents Him and  His children.  If we are indeed giving a direct comparison this wou…

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Jodi:  I can agree that the word created is accurate over that of the word possessed for sure and can see how such definitely helps to further support your position. You probably won’t be too surprised though lol, that I still do not believe that these scriptures in Proverbs are speaking of Jesus and thus supporting a pre-existence.

Well, it’s at…[Read more]

Jodi:  I hope you don’t mind that I would like to start with the last quote from you that I sited and put in bold above. I will then address Proverbs 8 in it’s own post. Covering this first will help you understand my position with Proverbs 8, at least I hope so!

I have addressed some of the stuff in this post already today, which you’ll read when…[Read more]

Mike: Hey there Carmel.  I’m going to pick just a few of  Jesus’ titles out of your long list to discuss…

Bread of God – John 6:33; 50

Christ of God – Luke 9:20

Holy One of God – Mark 1:24

Image of God – 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15

Lamb of God – John 1:29

Son of God – Luke 1:35

Wisdom of God – 1 Corinthians 1:24

Wor…

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Hi Mike,

Thank you for elaborating more on why you think Proverbs 8:22-31 is specifically speaking about Jesus and addressing the word translated as possessed in verse 22 is inaccurate and should be translated as created.

I can agree that the word created is accurate over that of the word possessed for sure and can see how such definitely helps…[Read more]

Mike:  So then every single reference to the Most High in the entire Bible using either “God” or “Yahweh” could be referring to the Father alone, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Son?  And then that would be why they always refer to “God” and “Yahweh” as a He?

 

LU:  Yes, it “could be” referring to the Father…

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Mike: Kathi, can you provide a single verse that refers to the Most High using either “God” or “Yahweh” where it MUST BE either referring to the Son or to the Unity of both of them?  (In other words, it is explicitly spelled out for us.)

 

LU:  Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever… therefore God, Your God, has anointed You…

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Mike: Here are some names Yahweh was called in the OT…

Would you consider any of those a matter of Yahweh changing His name to a different name?

 

LU:  You copy a list of names (plural) and then not see that each of those names are different and new to the others?

Nice word play.  I believe I used the words “CHANGING His name TO a differ…[Read more]

Mike: I call Jesus all of those things because the scriptures call Jesus all of those things.

 

LU:  Scripture does call Jesus the Servant to YHVH and that He is…the servant by creating all things and in many other ways. Yet you don’t believe Jesus created one thing.

Actually, Jesus’ own apostles and disciples called him the servant of God in a…[Read more]

😄🤣

I’m still waiting for Proclaimer to answer this question…

Hey Proclaimer, which ONE of the up arrows in the right image point to the throne of God in heaven?

Jodi: Hi Mike,

Sounds great, start the thread! 

I decided to start addressing your preexistent points here, but I’m happy to delve into it in a separate thread if you (or Kathi) prefer.  (Sorry, I’m addressing past posts in chronological order, and just now came to this post of yours.  But it’s not hard to copy and paste my previous post to a new…[Read more]

Jodi: Jesus is the prophet like that of Moses.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your G…

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Mike: Why did you start in verse 20, and also disregard what I just showed you from verses 18 and 19?

Jodi:  I did not disregard this, I explain my position to this scripture directly when I said and put in bold, ” We are directly told that the PURPOSE of the virgin birth was for a SIGN and being that it was a virgin birth, it would ther…

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Mike:  All that being said, let’s run with your understanding that the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be the Yahweh who could be seen by men.

Did Jesus affirm their accusation or deny it?

 

LU: Jesus confirmed that He is properly called “God.” If the created beings were called god, how much more the uncreated and only begotten Son of God wou…

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Mike: Do you have any NT scriptural support that the Jews of Jesus’ time on earth were aware of a “Yahweh Unity”, and knew that one of the Yahwehs could be seen by men, while the other could not?

 

LU:  John 14: 7-11

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Since Jesus is the…

[Read more]