No one could answer him

[Spock]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,10:41)

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 23 2013,06:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:17) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 23 2013,03:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,02:01) I ask do you believe in God, every “Believer” says “Yes!” I ask, are you a Monotheist a believer in ONE GOD, the believer says “Yes!” I ask, are you a polytheist a believer in gods…..silence Most Christians here are not True Believers in GOD ALMIGHTY they will say they do but they will believe in a trinity or without using the word trinity will call Jesus a god or believe in a multiple of gods including satan which means they are polytheist. Jesus was not a polytheist, Jesus is a Monotheist and declares that there is no god but GOD. So who here can answer me, saying that there is no god but GOD ALMIGHTY? I did, you wouldn't listen or did not understand. “plural manifestation” Colter would “plural manifestations” have independent personalities and be beings with there own wills? If So they are cannot be a SINGLE GOD BEING with ONE WILL. For instance Jesus has a will that is not always the Will of God as he said “Not my will, but your's be done” so if you believe that Jesus is a god you believethat there are at least two gods with seperate wills. Monotheism is theBelief in ONE GOD with ONE WILL an as Jesus said “Your will be done” 1) No, as personalities, the divine Sons of God are aligned in will, they don’t have separate agendas. 2) In Jesus, a God incarnate as a human, he never sinned, never did something other than the will of the Universal Father. He taught that prayer to man. I have a question for you. How do you come to know that the infinite God cannot give himself in personality to a subordinate deity? Colter Aligned in Will indicates “Agreement” but “Agreement” indicates “Optional” so if there is the capacity to “Not agree” then the Will is not “ONE WILL” it would simply mean willingness. the answer to your question is God gives anything to a subordinate that being cannot be GOD because God is not “Subordinate” and that being is certainly not a deity but the question goes back to you believing in gods. You keep saying you are a monotheist and yet you speak of subordinate deities i.e. lesser gods.

The problem rests in your definition of God and the restraints that you put on Infinity, God. You are confusing the First Source and center, the infinite I AM, the Unqualified Absolute, with the volitional personifications and duplicates.

Christ Michael proves you wrong in his creation of, and excellent administration of, our local universe, all while subordinate to the triune manifestation of the infinite I AM.

Colter

[Spock]

God is spirit, God is not corporeal.

Websters:  

Person

3a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians

b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures

GOD

1capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind

2: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

Personification

1: attribution of personal qualities; especially : representation of a thing or abstraction as a person or by the human form

2: a divinity or imaginary being representing a thing or abstraction

3: embodiment, incarnation

John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?  Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.  Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.  Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Colter

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:10)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 23 2013,02:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,02:01) I ask do you believe in God, every “Believer” says “Yes!” I ask, are you a Monotheist a believer in ONE GOD, the believer says “Yes!” I ask, are you a polytheist a believer in gods…..silence Most Christians here are not True Believers in GOD ALMIGHTY they will say they do but they will believe in a trinity or without using the word trinity will call Jesus a god or believe in a multiple of gods including satan which means they are polytheist. Jesus was not a polytheist, Jesus is a Monotheist and declares that there is no god but GOD. So who here can answer me, saying that there is no god but GOD ALMIGHTY? Boditharta. Which God are you speaking Of? For gods there are many. I know you believe in one God. I believe in one God. But which one God, is that God? 1. Is he the God who ispired the holy bible, 2. Or is he the God who inspiried the holy qur'an? 3. Or is he the god of the spirit of this world? If you speak of the one God who inspired the holy bible then your foundation is based on the holy bible. If you speak of the one god that inspired the holy qur'an then your foundation is based on the holy qur'an. If you speak of the god of the spirit of this world, then your foundation is this world system. Any of those believe in one God,but some are in confused. Now which one of those gods are you speaking of? 1;2;3.? wakeup. Do you believe there are other gods to compare? When I say there is ONLY ONE GOD, I can't ask the question “Which one?” afterwards if I do I am suggesting there are others to choose from.

Boditharta.

To the christians, jehovah God is the only one God.
To islam, allah is the one god.
To the krishna's, krishna is the one god.
To budhist's, budha is the one god.
Each one believe their god is the only one god.
Each have their own book.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Devolution @ Aug. 23 2013,17:12)

Greetings Bod. TWO individual beings, One God. (nothing like trinity) Before you set your sights on that word individual, please read on. Did not God Himself command that all His angels worship Jesus? What should that tell you? That God Himself has ordained His Son God also. And since it needed to be declared from God Himself, then without the One true Gods command, Jesus could not be anything more than what God ordains Him to be.   Nevertheless, God has put that same life (Spirit) that is within Himself into His Son also, which Spirit is also in His angels, BUT…they only get a measure of that Spirit, like men do, YET, Jesus was given that same Spirit without measure. So now the Son can do whatsoever the Father can do…create etc…for He has that same fullness inside of Himself now also…and it was Gods doing, not Jesus' own doing!! What should that tell you? That Jesus could be nothing more than what the One True God makes Him to be. See how it keeps coming back to the source…to the One True Gods doing? Also, did not Jesus also say that His Father is showing Him how to use that Spirit? ('He will show Me greater things than these') Yet the Son is always obedient to the Father and is always subject to the Father. And since the Spirit within the Son came forth out of the Father, and Jesus requires the Father to instruct Him how to lets say, correctly tap into that power within, then what should that tell you? That even if there were a million Gods standing by the Father, all with that same Spirit which came forth from the Father within them…then there is still only One God. Because NONE of them would exist without that Spirit within them which came from the SOURCE…from the One True God who is above all. And even though Jesus is God now also by His Fathers command, He would not EXIST without that Spirit which came from His Father. And since He could not exist without that Spirit which came from His Father, HOW can you say that by Jesus being now God also, it somehow undoes Gods declaration…That there is no other God beside Me?? It does not, because Jesus is like His Father in every way, they are in agreement on every level simply because they are made of the SAME inner Spirit which came forth from the Father, and by the Fathers own will. NOW, IF there were another being standing next to God whose inner Spirit did not come from that One God, THEN we could say, no God, but there IS another God next to you!! But God declares, there are no other Gods, He knows not one…not one individual being like Himself that did not come from Himself with that living Spirit He provides within. IF there were, then you would have a case to argue. But there is not. I am trying to explain it as simply as I can, don't know how well I achieved that, seeing that I am not an eloquent speaker nor highly educated… Thanks Bod.

So you believe in gods based on what you wrote and being a polytheist I can somewhat have a better view of your beliefs.

The only thing is you seem to acknowledge that Jesus NEEDS the source but the fact is THE SOURCE(GOD ALMIGHTY) does not NEED Jesus to exist therefore HE is the ONLY TRUE GOD and there is none else.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 23 2013,21:36)

The problem rests in your definition of God and the restraints that you put on Infinity, God. You are confusing the First Source and center, the infinite I AM, the Unqualified Absolute, with the volitional personifications and duplicates. Christ Michael proves you wrong in his creation of, and excellent administration of, our local universe, all while subordinate to the triune manifestation of the infinite I AM. Colter

How couldI be confusing anything? I believe in One God, I am a Monotheistic Believer I believe that God Almighty created ALL the worlds.

You don't believe that GOD ABSOLUTE created our local universe which means you don't even believe that God Absolute created the heavens and Earth.

So are you also saing that Christ Michael is not even part of the “triune manifestation”?

Polytheism is your belief if you could just admit that

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 23 2013,23:18)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 23 2013,02:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,02:01) I ask do you believe in God, every “Believer” says “Yes!” I ask, are you a Monotheist a believer in ONE GOD, the believer says “Yes!” I ask, are you a polytheist a believer in gods…..silence Most Christians here are not True Believers in GOD ALMIGHTY they will say they do but they will believe in a trinity or without using the word trinity will call Jesus a god or believe in a multiple of gods including satan which means they are polytheist. Jesus was not a polytheist, Jesus is a Monotheist and declares that there is no god but GOD. So who here can answer me, saying that there is no god but GOD ALMIGHTY? Boditharta. Which God are you speaking Of? For gods there are many. I know you believe in one God. I believe in one God. But which one God, is that God? 1. Is he the God who ispired the holy bible, 2. Or is he the God who inspiried the holy qur'an? 3. Or is he the god of the spirit of this world? If you speak of the one God who inspired the holy bible then your foundation is based on the holy bible. If you speak of the one god that inspired the holy qur'an then your foundation is based on the holy qur'an. If you speak of the god of the spirit of this world, then your foundation is this world system. Any of those believe in one God,but some are in confused. Now which one of those gods are you speaking of? 1;2;3.? wakeup. Do you believe there are other gods to compare? When I say there is ONLY ONE GOD, I can't ask the question “Which one?” afterwards if I do I am suggesting there are others to choose from. Boditharta. To the christians, jehovah God is the only one God. To islam, allah is the one god. To the krishna's, krishna is the one god. To budhist's, budha is the one god. Each one believe their god is the only one god. Each have their own book. wakeup.

You still do not understand what Monotheism is. The question can never be “which God?” I am a true monotheistic believer it doesn't matter to me what title you give yourself There is GOD and HIS creation.You believe books equal gods but in reality books equal instruction you are so adamant in your book being tied to God you refuse to believe that GOD who created everything has a problem communicating with everyone.

To Islam there is no other God, there is no Islamic God, in Islam God is God whether you are Christian, Jew, atheist or whatever GOD is who you will face on Judgement day

[Spock]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,01:13)

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 23 2013,21:36) The problem rests in your definition of God and the restraints that you put on Infinity, God. You are confusing the First Source and center, the infinite I AM, the Unqualified Absolute, with the volitional personifications and duplicates. Christ Michael proves you wrong in his creation of, and excellent administration of, our local universe, all while subordinate to the triune manifestation of the infinite I AM. Colter How couldI be confusing anything? I believe in One God, I am a Monotheistic Believer I believe that God Almighty created ALL the worlds. You don't believe that GOD ABSOLUTE created our local universe which means you don't even believe that God Absolute created the heavens and Earth. So are you also saing that Christ Michael is not even part of the “triune manifestation”? Polytheism is your belief if you could just admit that

If I was polytheist I would have no problem admitting it just like I have no problem admitting that I AM a heretic, I think there is a fair amount of untrue stuff in the Bible written by biased, imperfect men. Their corrupt, human religious institution has perpetuated the lie that God wrote the Bible so people stay stranded in the child like way of thinking of 600 BC

I also have no problem admitting that Christianity is only a shadow of the original gospel of Jesus. Christianity is mainly the opinion of Paul and his interpretations and compromises.

Polytheism is a term that means separate Gods, NOT plural manifestation of the same God

We exist IN God yet we are Not God. We are relative imperfection within the perfect.

Definition of INFINITE

1: extending indefinitely : endless

2: immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : inexhaustible

3: subject to no limitation or external determination

4a : extending beyond, lying beyond, or being greater than any preassigned finite value however large b : extending to infinity c : characterized by an infinite number of elements or terms
— in·fi·nite·ly adverb
— in·fi·nite·ness noun

Colter

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 24 2013,02:19)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,01:13) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 23 2013,21:36) The problem rests in your definition of God and the restraints that you put on Infinity, God. You are confusing the First Source and center, the infinite I AM, the Unqualified Absolute, with the volitional personifications and duplicates. Christ Michael proves you wrong in his creation of, and excellent administration of, our local universe, all while subordinate to the triune manifestation of the infinite I AM. Colter How couldI be confusing anything? I believe in One God, I am a Monotheistic Believer I believe that God Almighty created ALL the worlds. You don't believe that GOD ABSOLUTE created our local universe which means you don't even believe that God Absolute created the heavens and Earth. So are you also saing that Christ Michael is not even part of the “triune manifestation”? Polytheism is your belief if you could just admit that If I was polytheist I would have no problem admitting it just like I have no problem admitting that I AM a heretic, I think there is a fair amount of untrue stuff in the Bible written by biased, imperfect men. Their corrupt, human religious institution has perpetuated the lie that God wrote the Bible so people stay stranded in the child like way of thinking of 600 BC I also have no problem admitting that Christianity is only a shadow of the original gospel of Jesus. Christianity is mainly the opinion of Paul and his interpretations and compromises.   Polytheism is a term that means separate Gods, NOT plural manifestation of the same God We exist IN God yet we are Not God. We are relative imperfection within the perfect. Definition of INFINITE 1: extending indefinitely : endless 2: immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : inexhaustible 3: subject to no limitation or external determination 4a : extending beyond, lying beyond, or being greater than any preassigned finite value however large b : extending to infinity c : characterized by an infinite number of elements or terms — in·fi·nite·ly adverb — in·fi·nite·ness noun Colter

To pluralize is to dilute why would GOD need to dilute HIS Majesty.

God is ETERNALLY ONE all HIS creations are subject to HIM.

I understand that like most here you have a polytheistic mind and of all your criticism of Christianity and of Paul it was infact Paul who allowed for the polytheism to flourish.

Your views are much more Paulian than Jewish/Jesus.

Jesus was very Monotheistic in all his recorded words and we already know that the gentiles were very polytheistic and much of Christianity was corrupted over time by these polytheistic gentiles.

By the way is “Christ Michael” “Christ Jesus”? and if so are you saying that God, Christ Michael and Christ Jesus are just manifestions of God?

[Spock]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,03:37)

Quote (Colter @ Aug. 24 2013,02:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,01:13) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 23 2013,21:36) The problem rests in your definition of God and the restraints that you put on Infinity, God. You are confusing the First Source and center, the infinite I AM, the Unqualified Absolute, with the volitional personifications and duplicates. Christ Michael proves you wrong in his creation of, and excellent administration of, our local universe, all while subordinate to the triune manifestation of the infinite I AM. Colter How couldI be confusing anything? I believe in One God, I am a Monotheistic Believer I believe that God Almighty created ALL the worlds. You don't believe that GOD ABSOLUTE created our local universe which means you don't even believe that God Absolute created the heavens and Earth. So are you also saing that Christ Michael is not even part of the “triune manifestation”? Polytheism is your belief if you could just admit that If I was polytheist I would have no problem admitting it just like I have no problem admitting that I AM a heretic, I think there is a fair amount of untrue stuff in the Bible written by biased, imperfect men. Their corrupt, human religious institution has perpetuated the lie that God wrote the Bible so people stay stranded in the child like way of thinking of 600 BC I also have no problem admitting that Christianity is only a shadow of the original gospel of Jesus. Christianity is mainly the opinion of Paul and his interpretations and compromises.   Polytheism is a term that means separate Gods, NOT plural manifestation of the same God We exist IN God yet we are Not God. We are relative imperfection within the perfect. Definition of INFINITE 1: extending indefinitely : endless 2: immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : inexhaustible 3: subject to no limitation or external determination 4a : extending beyond, lying beyond, or being greater than any preassigned finite value however large b : extending to infinity c : characterized by an infinite number of elements or terms — in·fi·nite·ly adverb — in·fi·nite·ness noun Colter To pluralize is to dilute why would GOD need to dilute HIS Majesty. God is ETERNALLY ONE all HIS creations are subject to HIM. I understand that like most here you have a polytheistic mind and of all your criticism of Christianity and of Paul it was infact Paul who allowed for the polytheism to flourish. Your views are much more Paulian than Jewish/Jesus. Jesus was very Monotheistic in all his recorded words and we already know that the gentiles were very polytheistic and much of Christianity was corrupted over time by these polytheistic gentiles. By the way is “Christ Michael” “Christ Jesus”? and if so are you saying that God, Christ Michael and Christ Jesus are just manifestions of God?

……because Love and sharing is the Fathers nature.

That is why he does it, that is why he made you and me bodhitharta. That is why he suffers with us, has gone into partnership with us, that we might become what he is.

God is Love but Love is not God, God is more than Love.

The Infinity of God

(33.4) 2:1.1 “Touching the Infinite, we cannot find him out. The divine footsteps are not known.” “His understanding is infinite and his greatness is unsearchable.” The blinding light of the Father’s presence is such that to his lowly creatures he apparently “dwells in the thick darkness.” Not only are his thoughts and plans unsearchable, but “he does great and marvelous things without number.” “God is great; we comprehend him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.” “Will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven (universe) and the heaven of heavens (universe of universes) cannot contain him.” “How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out!”

(34.1) 2:1.2 “There is but one God, the infinite Father, who is also a faithful Creator.” “The divine Creator is also the Universal Disposer, the source and destiny of souls. He is the Supreme Soul, the Primal Mind, and the Unlimited Spirit of all creation.” “The great Controller makes no mistakes. He is resplendent in majesty and glory.” “The Creator God is wholly devoid of fear and enmity. He is immortal, eternal, self-existent, divine, and bountiful.” “How pure and beautiful, how deep and unfathomable is the supernal Ancestor of all things!” “The Infinite is most excellent in that he imparts himself to men. He is the beginning and the end, the Father of every good and perfect purpose.” “With God all things are possible; the eternal Creator is the cause of causes.”

(34.2) 2:1.3 Notwithstanding the infinity of the stupendous manifestations of the Father’s eternal and universal personality, he is unqualifiedly self-conscious of both his infinity and eternity; likewise he knows fully his perfection and power. He is the only being in the universe, aside from his divine co-ordinates, who experiences a perfect, proper, and complete appraisal of himself.

(34.3) 2:1.4 The Father constantly and unfailingly meets the need of the differential of demand for himself as it changes from time to time in various sections of his master universe. The great God knows and understands himself; he is infinitely self-conscious of all his primal attributes of perfection. God is not a cosmic accident; neither is he a universe experimenter. The Universe Sovereigns may engage in adventure; the Constellation Fathers may experiment; the system heads may practice; but the Universal Father sees the end from the beginning, and his divine plan and eternal purpose actually embrace and comprehend all the experiments and all the adventures of all his subordinates in every world, system, and constellation in every universe of his vast domains.

(34.4) 2:1.5 No thing is new to God, and no cosmic event ever comes as a surprise; he inhabits the circle of eternity. He is without beginning or end of days. To God there is no past, present, or future; all time is present at any given moment. He is the great and only I AM.

(34.5) 2:1.6 The Universal Father is absolutely and without qualification infinite in all his attributes; and this fact, in and of itself, automatically shuts him off from all direct personal communication with finite material beings and other lowly created intelligences.

(34.6) 2:1.7 And all this necessitates such arrangements for contact and communication with his manifold creatures as have been ordained, first, in the personalities of the Paradise Sons of God, who, although perfect in divinity, also often partake of the nature of the very flesh and blood of the planetary races, b
ecoming one of you and one with you; thus, as it were, God becomes man, as occurred in the bestowal of Michael, who was called interchangeably the Son of God and the Son of Man. And second, there are the personalities of the Infinite Spirit, the various orders of the seraphic hosts and other celestial intelligences who draw near to the material beings of lowly origin and in so many ways minister to them and serve them. And third, there are the impersonal Mystery Monitors, Thought Adjusters, the actual gift of the great God himself sent to indwell such as the humans of Urantia, sent without announcement and without explanation. In endless profusion they descend from the heights of glory to grace and indwell the humble minds of those mortals who possess the capacity for God-consciousness or the potential therefor.

(35.1) 2:1.8 In these ways and in many others, in ways unknown to you and utterly beyond finite comprehension, does the Paradise Father lovingly and willingly downstep and otherwise modify, dilute, and attenuate his infinity in order that he may be able to draw nearer the finite minds of his creature children. And so, through a series of personality distributions which are diminishingly absolute, the infinite Father is enabled to enjoy close contact with the diverse intelligences of the many realms of his far-flung universe.

(35.2) 2:1.9 All this he has done and now does, and evermore will continue to do, without in the least detracting from the fact and reality of his infinity, eternity, and primacy. And these things are absolutely true, notwithstanding the difficulty of their comprehension, the mystery in which they are enshrouded, or the impossibility of their being fully understood by creatures such as dwell on Urantia.

(35.3) 2:1.10 Because the First Father is infinite in his plans and eternal in his purposes, it is inherently impossible for any finite being ever to grasp or comprehend these divine plans and purposes in their fullness. Mortal man can glimpse the Father’s purposes only now and then, here and there, as they are revealed in relation to the outworking of the plan of creature ascension on its successive levels of universe progression. Though man cannot encompass the significance of infinity, the infinite Father does most certainly fully comprehend and lovingly embrace all the finity of all his children in all universes.

(35.4) 2:1.11 Divinity and eternity the Father shares with large numbers of the higher Paradise beings, but we question whether infinity and consequent universal primacy is fully shared with any save his co-ordinate associates of the Paradise Trinity. Infinity of personality must, perforce, embrace all finitude of personality; hence the truth — literal truth — of the teaching which declares that “In Him we live and move and have our being.” That fragment of the pure Deity of the Universal Father which indwells mortal man is a part of the infinity of the First Great Source and Center, the Father of Fathers.

Colter

[Devolution]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,01:08)

Quote (Devolution @ Aug. 23 2013,17:12) Greetings Bod. TWO individual beings, One God. (nothing like trinity) Before you set your sights on that word individual, please read on. Did not God Himself command that all His angels worship Jesus? What should that tell you? That God Himself has ordained His Son God also. And since it needed to be declared from God Himself, then without the One true Gods command, Jesus could not be anything more than what God ordains Him to be.   Nevertheless, God has put that same life (Spirit) that is within Himself into His Son also, which Spirit is also in His angels, BUT…they only get a measure of that Spirit, like men do, YET, Jesus was given that same Spirit without measure. So now the Son can do whatsoever the Father can do…create etc…for He has that same fullness inside of Himself now also…and it was Gods doing, not Jesus' own doing!! What should that tell you? That Jesus could be nothing more than what the One True God makes Him to be. See how it keeps coming back to the source…to the One True Gods doing? Also, did not Jesus also say that His Father is showing Him how to use that Spirit? ('He will show Me greater things than these') Yet the Son is always obedient to the Father and is always subject to the Father. And since the Spirit within the Son came forth out of the Father, and Jesus requires the Father to instruct Him how to lets say, correctly tap into that power within, then what should that tell you? That even if there were a million Gods standing by the Father, all with that same Spirit which came forth from the Father within them…then there is still only One God. Because NONE of them would exist without that Spirit within them which came from the SOURCE…from the One True God who is above all. And even though Jesus is God now also by His Fathers command, He would not EXIST without that Spirit which came from His Father. And since He could not exist without that Spirit which came from His Father, HOW can you say that by Jesus being now God also, it somehow undoes Gods declaration…That there is no other God beside Me?? It does not, because Jesus is like His Father in every way, they are in agreement on every level simply because they are made of the SAME inner Spirit which came forth from the Father, and by the Fathers own will. NOW, IF there were another being standing next to God whose inner Spirit did not come from that One God, THEN we could say, no God, but there IS another God next to you!! But God declares, there are no other Gods, He knows not one…not one individual being like Himself that did not come from Himself with that living Spirit He provides within. IF there were, then you would have a case to argue. But there is not. I am trying to explain it as simply as I can, don't know how well I achieved that, seeing that I am not an eloquent speaker nor highly educated… Thanks Bod. So you believe in gods based on what you wrote and being a polytheist I can somewhat have a better view of your beliefs. The only thing is you seem to acknowledge that Jesus NEEDS the source but the fact is THE SOURCE(GOD ALMIGHTY) does not NEED Jesus to exist therefore HE is the ONLY TRUE GOD and there is none else.

The Father IS life, He is the Fountain of Living Waters and all life springs from Him and Him alone.
Even Jesus came forth from the Father.

How does God create?

Psalms 33:6  
   By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Where dos ones breath come from?
From within oneself.

And unlike the breath that comes out of our mouths, Gods 'breath' can actually act and carry out whatever command is found in the word of His will.
Like living letters that become whatever they are 'spoken out as.'

So it is not really breath coming out of His mouth, but Spirit.
And that Spirit which springs forth from His lips like breath, can become anything He wishes.

So ALL things are made up of and consist of that living essence coming forth from within the Father.
Be they animate, or inanimate, having consciousness or bereft of consciousness such as the Father desires.

And this is what Jesus was before He was made flesh, pure Spirit which came forth from within the Father and created all things which God commanded should be created, and God gave that spoken word bodily form with an active consciousness of His own, hence, “Let us make man in our  image'…God was commanding that very spoken forth word which created everything whom God commanded into bodily form to create man also just as He, that very same spoken word, created the angels and all the host thereof.

Because God does not have sex, the only other way life can come forth is from that living Spirit found within Him.

So this Living Word, being 100% pure Spirit 'un-watered' down (unlike the angels who have each of them varying measures of that Living Spirit), this very same word which was given bodily form and active consciousness, was commanded to become flesh.

So flesh He became.
Not God Himself became flesh, but that Living Word which sprung forth from within Him, and given active consciousness, He became flesh.

And since becoming flesh, like man, He became a man in every sense, having now also a human soul, which is not living Spirit measured out, but more like a power source to enable flesh to become alive.

Genesis 2:7  
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

A living soul, being neither good or evil at its creation, but like unto a blank canvass, awaiting filling in, which filling in is formed by our own decisions and desires.

This is when that Living Word given bodily form became a creature, when He became flesh.
Because before that change, He was always with God, from everlasting, because He sprung forth from within the Father, who, IS everlasting.

Now remembering that that word became flesh, being beforehand Spirit, being therefore commanded into flesh, He was now flesh in every sense of the word, like us in every way, feeling hunger, thirst, pain, love, joy etc etc.

So then, now no longer pure Spirit, but now flesh, His soul, like ours, could no longer act and obey and create as He once could.
He became mortal

And since He was now mortal, His soul not having life of itself, but only life in itself, now a creature bereft of the Living Spiritual imprint connecting Him to the Father, linking Him to the Father, being now an independent creature, that soul within Him then needed once again that pure Spirit which IS life, that comes from within the Father who is in heaven, to enter into Himself for to be able to speak the Words the Father sent Him to speak…His Fathers words and not His own.

Because without that Living Spirit, That Holy Spirit, which is not the same as a living soul, men can not be changed into spirit creatures like the
angels.

Because:

Romans 8:11
   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Thus, Jesus needed the Father to once again imbue Him with that Spirit which comes from within the Father as the above just explained.

Isaiah 42:1  
   Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 11:2
   And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Luke 2:40
   And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Luke 2:52
   And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

See how that Spirit within Him was growing
And that Word, that Holy Spirit, can be taken out of men if they turn away from God, because the grafting of that Living Spirit onto our own souls is only completed at resurrection.

This is why Christ cried out, 'Father, why hast Thou forsaken Me?'
It was because Jesus took on the sins of the world and symbolically became sin, and the Holy Spirit does not dwell with sin and was, for a little moment, taken out from within Him.

Thus Jesus again cried, 'Father, into Thy hands I commend MY Spirit.

His, Jesus' mortal spirit…his soul.
And since He was the Lamb prepared by God Himself as a fitting sacrifice, being innocent and free from sin, undeserving of death, the Father raised Him up using that same Spirit reunited and once again without measure completed the grafting and restored Jesus back to His former state of being…pure 100% without measure Living Word of God who came from within God but now again in bodily form sits at His Fathers right hand until His enemies are made His footstool.

And He truly is His Son now, because He became wholly flesh with a human soul, the human experience or imprint as it were, now also joined and merged in unity with the restored Spirit.

Hence:

Hebrews 2
   14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Thanks Bod.

[Wakeup]

*+***Devo***+*

Exellently explained.
Clear as crystal.

wakeup.

[Devolution]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 24 2013,08:59)

*+***Devo***+* Exellently explained. Clear as crystal. wakeup.

Thank you Wakeup,

I of course would not have been able to see it for myself without two main ingredients…your guidance whom the Lord sent me to learn from until I could see for myself (still got more to teach me im sure), and of course the Lords mercy to share of that Spirit He has so gracefully blessed you with.

God bless you Wakeup.
In fact God bless you more so I too can learn more…Lord willing of course    

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Devolution @ Aug. 24 2013,08:23)

Quote

The Father IS life, He is the Fountain of Living Waters and all life springs from Him and Him alone. Even Jesus came forth from the Father. How does God create? Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Where dos ones breath come from? From within oneself. And unlike the breath that comes out of our mouths, Gods 'breath' can actually act and carry out whatever command is found in the word of His will. Like living letters that become whatever they are 'spoken out as.' So it is not really breath coming out of His mouth, but Spirit. And that Spirit which springs forth from His lips like breath, can become anything He wishes. So ALL things are made up of and consist of that living essence coming forth from within the Father. Be they animate, or inanimate, having consciousness or bereft of consciousness such as the Father desires.

Agree totally

Quote

And this is what Jesus was before He was made flesh, pure Spirit which came forth from within the Father and created all things which God commanded should be created, and God gave that spoken word bodily form with an active consciousness of His own, hence, “Let us make man in our image'…God was commanding that very spoken forth word which created everything whom God commanded into bodily form to create man also just as He, that very same spoken word, created the angels and all the host thereof. Because God does not have sex, the only other way life can come forth is from that living Spirit found within Him. So this Living Word, being 100% pure Spirit 'un-watered' down (unlike the angels who have each of them varying measures of that Living Spirit), this very same word which was given bodily form and active consciousness, was commanded to become flesh. So flesh He became. Not God Himself became flesh, but that Living Word which sprung forth from within Him, and given active consciousness, He became flesh.

Jesus was A Word of God not the entire Word of God otherwise how did God's Word still remain active while Jesus was in flesh. God created Jesus with a WORD from HIM from the Creative Command “BE” which is how God creates.

and the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: allah giveth thee glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from allah lordly, chaste, a prophet of the righteous.

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #39)

Quote

And since becoming flesh, like man, He became a man in every sense, having now also a human soul, which is not living Spirit measured out, but more like a power source to enable flesh to become alive. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. A living soul, being neither good or evil at its creation, but like unto a blank canvass, awaiting filling in, which filling in is formed by our own decisions and desires. This is when that Living Word given bodily form became a creature, when He became flesh. Because before that change, He was always with God, from everlasting, because He sprung forth from within the Father, who, IS everlasting.[Quote] Some of this is speculation, However thiscould not b true about Jesus because He is not God [Quote]Now remembering that that word became flesh, being beforehand Spirit, being therefore commanded into flesh, He was now flesh in every sense of the word, like us in every way, feeling hunger, thirst, pain, love, joy etc etc. So then, now no longer pure Spirit, but now flesh, His soul, like ours, could no longer act and obey and create as He once could. He became mortal And since He was now mortal, His soul not having life of itself, but only life in itself, now a creature bereft of the Living Spiritual imprint connecting Him to the Father, linking Him to the Father, being now an independent creature, that soul within Him then needed once again that pure Spirit which IS life, that comes from within the Father who is in heaven, to enter into Himself for to be able to speak the Words the Father sent Him to speak…His Fathers words and not His own.

You just proved my point whe you said “His Fathers WORDS and not his own

Quote

Because without that Living Spirit, That Holy Spirit, which is not the same as a living soul, men can not be changed into spirit creatures like the angels. Because: Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Thus, Jesus needed the Father to once again imbue Him with that Spirit which comes from within the Father as the above just explained. Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. See how that Spirit within Him was growing And that Word, that Holy Spirit, can be taken out of men if they turn away from God, because the grafting of that Living Spirit onto our own souls is only completed at resurrection. This is why Christ cried out, 'Father, why hast Thou forsaken Me?' It was because Jesus took on the sins of the world and symbolically became sin, and the Holy Spirit does not dwell with sin and was, for a little moment, taken out from within Him. Thus Jesus again cried, 'Father, into Thy hands I commend MY Spirit.

Disagree with much here but will discuss seperately

Quote

His, Jesus' mortal spirit…his soul. And since He was the Lamb prepared by God Himself as a fitting sacrifice, being innocent and free from sin, undeserving of death, the Father raised Him up using that same Spirit reunited and once again without measure completed the grafting and restored Jesus back to His former state of being…pure 100% without measure Living Word of God who came from within God but now again in bodily form sits at His Fathers right hand until His enemies are made His footstool. And He truly is His Son now, because He became wholly flesh with a human soul, the human experience or imprint as it were, now also joined and merged in unity with the restored Spirit.

Disagree with most but no need to chagetopic here

Quote

Hence: Hebrews 2 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Thanks Bod.

Reconciliation has nothing to do with sacrifice but will speak n that elsewhere.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:07)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 23 2013,02:32) Hi BD: For me, as a born again Christian, there is “No God but God Almighty”. Love in Christ, Marty Well, Praise God! So, how do you view Jesus as a Christian? Is Jesus a god?

Hi BD:

God revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and so, that is who he is.

He is a man, who is the “express image of God's person”, but no, he is not God or a god.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2013,14:40)

For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords)……… Paul was a polytheist.

Hi Mike:

Why do you just post the part of the scripture, you know that Paul was not a Polythiest, this is what he said:

Quote

1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,12:06)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 23 2013,02:32) Hi BD: For me, as a born again Christian, there is “No God but God Almighty”. Love in Christ, Marty Well, Praise God! So, how do you view Jesus as a Christian? Is Jesus a god? Hi BD: God revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and so, that is who he is. He is a man, who is the “express image of God's person”, but no, he is not God or a god. Love in Christ, Marty

In otherwords what mankind was meant to be. Praise God!

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,13:49)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,12:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 23 2013,02:32) Hi BD: For me, as a born again Christian, there is “No God but God Almighty”. Love in Christ, Marty Well, Praise God! So, how do you view Jesus as a Christian? Is Jesus a god? Hi BD: God revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and so, that is who he is. He is a man, who is the “express image of God's person”, but no, he is not God or a god. Love in Christ, Marty In otherwords what mankind was meant to be. Praise God!

Boditharta.

I dont know what your view is.
They can not seem to understand that we are gods created in the image of God;BUT WE ARE NOT GODS TO BE WORSHIPPED.Childrens can not take their fathers
authority.

wakeup.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2013,13:49)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,12:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2013,05:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 23 2013,02:32) Hi BD: For me, as a born again Christian, there is “No God but God Almighty”. Love in Christ, Marty Well, Praise God! So, how do you view Jesus as a Christian? Is Jesus a god? Hi BD: God revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16 that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and so, that is who he is. He is a man, who is the “express image of God's person”, but no, he is not God or a god. Love in Christ, Marty In otherwords what mankind was meant to be. Praise God!

Hi BD, that is correct. Genesis 1 God made man in His own image. The first man Adam was made “a living soul”, that is like God in that he is a living person, having a mind, a will, and emotions, and the last Adam, Jesus, was made “a life giving spirit”, and is “the express image of God's person”, “God is love”. It is through this spirit that was formed in Jesus by God as he obeyed God unto death on the cross, that we have seen God's character.

Yes, God told all of the angels to worship him, but worship can take on different meanings. He is the King of kings, and we honor him as such, and that is what worship means here, but we do not worship him as God.

This is what Jesus stated:

Quote

Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 22 2013,22:09)

You believe in gods, correct?

I clearly told you this in the other thread, which is why the title of this thread befuddles me.  But here goes again:

I believe exactly what the Bible teaches.  So yes, I believe there are many gods and many lords, both in heaven and on earth (1 Cor 8:5) and that the LORD your God is God OF gods, and Lord OF lords (Deut 10:17).

Of course there are many other scriptures that also support this understanding, but all sensible people can suffice to say that Jehovah couldn't possibly be the Lord OF lords if there existed no other lords for Him to be the Lord OF.  Likewise, He could not possibly be the God OF gods if there existed no other gods for Him to be the God OF.

Although such a statement is nothing but God-given common sense at its most basic level, many people have issues overcoming the teachings of former MEN who have tried to force the Bible, and its writers, into being a purely monotheistic force.  These men have their reasons for doing such a thing.  Since Jesus IS clearly called “god” a number of times in scripture, most of these men insist on a strictly monotheistic Bible so they can then claim that Jesus has to BE that one and only God.

But the fact of the matter is that the scripture doesn't teach that there is only one god.

I feel like some of you guys are living in the days when everyone thought the earth was flat.  And I'm the guy who traveled back in time with a satellite image of the earth, proving that your understanding was wrong.  And while some people from your time would look at that image and believe the fact I've just showed them, others have had an image of a flat earth so engraved on their brains for such a long time that they refuse to believe the satellite image that is right in front of them.

I am not speaking out of school here, people.  I am only listing scriptures – as they were originally written – and hoping some of you will believe the facts of the matter.

But just like the man who travelled back in time with the satellite image of the round earth was called a heretic by the “experts” of that age, I am now being labeled as such by those with minds so closed up by past teachings of MEN, that they can no longer be opened up again.

Hear the facts, people:

1.  Jehovah could not be the Most High savior if there didn't exist other less high saviors for Him to be higher than.

2.  Jehovah could not be the Most High king if there didn't exist other less high kings for Him to be higher than.

3.  Jehovah could not be the Most High lord if there didn't exist other less high lords for Him to be higher than.

4.  And Jehovah could not be the Most High god if there didn't exist other less high gods for Him to be higher than.

These common sense conclusions, along with the MANY scriptures that describe these less high gods, and their powers, should be enough to prove my case.  

But for some odd reason, I still fight an uphill battle against the UNSCRIPTURAL dogmas created by MEN of past generations.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Devolution @ Aug. 23 2013,00:12)

…..even if there were a million Gods standing by the Father, all with that same Spirit which came forth from the Father within them…then there is still only One God.

Hi Devo,

While I don't agree with everything you said in the last post on page 2, you have hit the nail on the head with this statement I quoted above.

Even if all the saviors Jehovah has SENT were standing right beside him in heaven, He could still say, “there is no savior besides me”, because He alone is the ULTIMATE savior – the SOURCE of the other saviors He SENT.

And even WHEN (not “if”) there are myriads of gods assembling with Jehovah (as is described in Psalm 82 and Job 1, etc.), He could still say, “there is no god besides me”, because He alone is the ULTIMATE god – the SOURCE of all the other gods, and, emphatically speaking, the “only TRUE god”.

Now this doesn't make these other gods Jehovah created “man-made idols”.  It doesn't make these spirit sons of Jehovah, who faithfully follow His rules and regulations “false gods”.  It merely distinguishes Jehovah as the MOST HIGH god – the One who created all things, including these other gods.

[Author]

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