Who and what is Jesus? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God?
Part 03 Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Scripture clearly tell us who Jesus really is

Matthew 3:17 (English-NIV)
“And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased”

If the Father is God, then who is Jesus?
Well the above scripture says that Jesus is God’s son. The scriptures are very clear with the identity of Jesus.
Jesus even asked Peter who he was and Jesus commended Peter for his answer. In fact Jesus built his Church on the truth that Peter uttered.

In Matthew 16:13-17 (English-NIV) it says
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Notice that Peter didn’t say to Jesus, “You are God”, as many today say. If Jesus were God then this would have been the perfect opportunity to declare that?

Many people today given this opportunity would declare that Jesus is God. So why didn’t Peter just say that Jesus was God as most who believe in the Trinity would have. Because this revelation didn’t come from man or man’s wisdom, but from the Father. The Father also revealed this sacred truth to James, John, and Peter with Elijah and Moses as witnesses:

Mark 9:7 (English-NIV)
Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

So who are we to argue or change this truth?
See also Matthew 17:5 for a parallel account and 2 Peter 1:17 as confirmation
It is also interesting to note that the demons never referred to Jesus as God. They referred to him as the Son of God. See Matthew 8:29 (English-NIV)
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Luke 4:41 (English-NIV)
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.

Even Satan didn’t refer to Jesus as God but rather the Son of God.

See Matthew 4:3-6 (English-NIV)
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Philippians 2:8-11 shows us that eventually everyone will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This is the correct confession. If everyone will eventually confess this truth, then why not start now. To declare that Jesus Christ is God is a different confession and shows a lack of understanding about who Jesus really is.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death, even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Many today do not understand that Lord and God are 2 different words. Just as Pharaoh was the true ruler of Egypt, he gave his authority to Joseph who was Lord over all the Pharaoh’s kingdom. It must also be noted that Lord and LORD are 2 different words. The Father is LORD and Jesus is Lord. Translators capitalize the name of God as LORD which causes this confusion. So Jesus being Lord is not the same as the LORD in the Old Testament. LORD comes from the name of God, YHWH.

To say that Jesus is the LORD is to say that he is the one true God (YHWH) and it is not correct and nor is it taught in scripture. When referring to Jesus, he is Lord and we know that there are many lords. Landlords, warlords, lords over kingdoms etc. But God made Jesus Lord over all creation or over all that is of God.

Acts 2:36 (English NIV)
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Acts 10:36 (English NIV)
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Seven scriptures that paint a clear picture about Jesus and who he is

These scripture do not mention a Trinity or even hint at such a thought.
If you want to believe in the real Jesus, then believe these scriptures, and know that they were inspired by God himself. If we are true disciples, we will trust in the scriptures rather than the cleverly devised doctrines of man.

Colossians 1:12-16 (English-NIV)
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Hebrews 1:1-6 (English-NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Revelation 1:4-6 (English-NIV)
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Fatherhood him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

John 1:1 (English-NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god/theos.

Ephesians 1:22
And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Revelation 3:14 (English-KJV)
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

John 1:3 (English-NIV)
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

These 7 passages of scripture show us the following:
God has spoken to us through the prophets and now his son. The son is that exact brightness of God’s glory. He is the express image of God. God sustains all things by his Word (Jesus is the Word of God). He is seated at the right hand of God He inherited a name more superior to the Angels. God became a Father when he begat his son “You are my Son, today I have become your Father”. Jesus God is our God too. He is the firstborn from the dead. Jesus has first place in everything. Jesus is head over the Church. He is God’s firstborn. Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God.

So Jesus is the Image of God, the Son of God and the beginning of the creation of God. Being an image is another way to say you are not the original. That concurs with a son not being the Father. This is very easy to understand, but the Trinity Doctrine confuses the minds of many believers, so that they do not understand the truth that God is one person/identity and that this God has a son who is like him.

Further clarification on who Jesus really is

The Trinity Doctrine would have us believe that the Father and Son have always existed for all eternity together, when in actual fact it is God the Father who has existed for all eternity. It may be true that Jesus existed for all time because time is a part of the created universe and we know that the Jesus being the son is of the Father and creation came through Jesus. By creation I mean us too. And to take it further, the woman came from the man. So it is the Father who is the one who is from everlasting to everlasting see the following scripture:

Revelation 1:4-6 (English-NIV)
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

Jesus is the Word of God. Another title that states he is of God or from God. Revelation 19:11-13 (English-KJV)
11  I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True.
With justice he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Acts 3:15 (English-NIV)
You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

Here we can see that Jesus is the author of life, yet it was God that raised him from the dead. So we cannot say as many do that Jesus is God because creation came from him. Rather we have to understand that God created all things though his Word, who is Christ.

The next scripture shows us that the Father is God and Jesus is his son. We read that Jesus himself learned obedience through suffering, just like us. We are then called to obey Jesus who is the high priest and our eternal salvation. But if Jesus were God, then how could he actually learn something. Isn’t God suppose to be all knowing?

Hebrews 5:8-10 (English-NIV)
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Continuing with the theme of God being all knowing, below you will see scriptures that show us that Jesus was not all knowing.

Matthew 24:36 (English-NIV)
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 5:30 (English-NIV)
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Mark 10:17-18 (English-NIV)
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he
asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good, except God alone.

Here we can see that Jesus said that only God is good, and he made it quite plain that he did not want to be called good.
Jesus also doesn’t know the hour that he will return to earth, and he also testified that he does nothing of himself, only what he hears from God. These 3 scriptures show a different picture than the 3 persons in 1 God formula called the Trinity, that was devised by man, hundreds of years after the last book in the bible was written, and is not mentioned in either the Old or New Testament. To truly honor Jesus Christ we must honor who he is. Remember that Jesus is the Truth. He is the Son of the Living God, the Messiah. So we must not only believe the truth with regards to who Jesus really is, but we must also recognize that he is the Truth. If we say that Jesus is one of the equal persons that make up God, then we are not speaking the truth, rather we are following the doctrines of man and demon. Jesus taught us clearly that his Father is his God and that he is greater than himself. To truly honor the Father we must honor his Son. To honor Jesus is to believe the truth about him and believe his own words.

John 14:28 (English-NIV)
“You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 13:16 (English-NIV)
I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 6:29 (English NIV)
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

John 8:42 (English NIV)
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

When Jesus came to earth he came for a reason. He came to destroy the works of the Devil. See the next 2 scriptures:

Hebrews 2:14 (English-NIV)
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil

1 John 3:8 (English-NIV)
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Jesus also came to show us God, to declare him and to bring us back into fellowship with God, this actually equates to destroying the work of the Devil. It is the Devils works that have alienated Man from God, it is Jesus works commissioned by the Father that brings man back to God.

John 17:26 (English-NIV)
I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

John 14:8-9 (English-NIV)
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father’? Here we can see that Jesus was teaching the disciples about the Father.

Jesus was not saying he was the Father, he was declaring/revealing him. Jesus was also showing the disciples who he was, i.e. the Image of God. That is why he could say “If you have seen me you have seen the Father”. If we want to know what our Father, (the invisible eternal Spirit) looks like, then all we have to do is look at Jesus who is the image of the invisible God. He is the likeness of God in bodily form. He is the only begotten Son of God and remember that he is the only one who can see God and the only one who can declare him.

John 1:18 (English-KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The next scriptures point out quite clearly that we must honor the Son if we are to honor our Father God.

John 5:23 (English-NIV)
that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 12:44 (English-NIV)
Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.

If Jesus is the Image of his Father, then it makes sense that whatever we say about Jesus we are also saying about his Father. If we slander Jesus then we are slandering God, not because Jesus is God, rather he is like God. If you slander the Son would that not be offensive to the Father. It is interesting to note that Jesus also said that whatever we say about the least of his brethren, we are saying it to him, this is because we (believers) are being made into the image of Christ. But this doesn’t actually make us Christ, rather we are like him. God -> Christ -> Man/Church.

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

So just as the Deity is in Christ, Christ is in us. But some try to say that Jesus is the Deity, yet they know full well that we are not Christ. To be divine and to be the Divine are 2 different things. One identifies a nature/quality and the other identifies a person or identity. God is the Divine and he shares his nature with his family, i.e., his sons. Christ has divine nature. But we can also partake of the divine nature and even then we are not God and nor will we ever be God.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

The next 3 scriptures show us all good gifts come from the Father, this even includes Jesus himself and God’s Spirit too. God begat Jesus and God’s Spirit proceeds from himself. We were given birth from God through the Word of Truth who is Jesus. This confirms that the head of man is Christ.

James 1:17-18 (English-NIV)
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.

Romans 8:32 (English-NIV)
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Luke 11:13 (English-NIV)
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

We know that Jesus is the Son of God, but do we believers worship him?

Hebrews 1:6 (English-NIV)
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him. This verse shows us that God wants his Angels to worship Jesus.

Matthew 2:2 (English-NIV)
and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”

Matthew 2:8 (English-NIV)
He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and make a careful search for the child.
As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”

But doesn’t worshipping Jesus contradict many scriptures?

Exodus 34:14 (English-NIV)
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD , whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Luke 4:8 (English-NIV)
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’

Worshipping Jesus is scriptural and actually doesn’t contradict the above scriptures. Why? Because we do not worship Jesus as God, rather the Son of God and the Lamb of God.

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Revelation 5: 12-14 (English-NIV)
12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

The last verse above shows us that God and Jesus are worshipped in heaven. We worship Jesus as the Son of God and we worship the Father as God. All honor and worship to Jesus is really honor and worship to the Father anyway, because Jesus is the only way to God. Not all worship and praise is identified as being toward God alone. At times God’s servants receive praise such as King David, but such praise glorifies God. For if God’s representatives receive praise for doing the will of God, then it is ultimately God that receives that praise. We can even worship God by simply acknowledging the beauty of nature and the universe, as long as we acknowledge that God created then. So Jesus shares the same honor that is due to the Father as he visibly represents his Father, the Invisible God.

John 5:23 (English-NIV)
that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 14:6 (English-NIV)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The Trinity Doctrine encourages people to worship three as God

Those who worship the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as 3 separate persons and each as God are really worshipping more than one God. Trinitarian believers will refute this and say that the three persons are one God, yet they worship any of the 3 that they want to at anytime. Let’s just get real here and admit that such people worship three Gods. On one day it may be the Son, another the Father and another the Holy Spirit or all at the same time. But the scriptures are very clear with regards to worshipping the one true God. YHWH is the one true God. So the scriptures are quite clear as to who Jesus is. He is the Son of God and the Messiah. We also know that by it’s very definition, a Father is the originator and a Son has a source.

Is the son the same age as the Father?

Some people believe that Jesus Christ did not exist before his birth on earth, even though they acknowledge that Jesus is the Logos/Word. They say that he didn’t actually exist as a person till he was clothed in flesh and was born on this earth. Others say that Jesus is eternal like the Father in the sense that he has always existed as the Son. In other words God has always been a father. What do the scriptures say about this?

John 6:8
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

The above scripture points out two things. First, that Jesus came from Heaven, so he must have existed in Heaven before his birth as a man, and secondly that he has his own will and he chose to align his will with God’s will meaning that he is not God but another.

The next scripture shows clearly that Christ existed before he came to earth.

John 1:15
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ “

We know from scripture that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is physically impossible for Christ to be before him. This verse shows pre-existence.

Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

This verse is either saying that glory, majesty, power… before all ages or it is saying the same thing but through Jesus Christ before all ages. Most translations favour the second option, but some do not mention the ‘through Jesus Christ’ part such as the King James version. I leave that one up to you to think about.

1Corinthians 10:1-4
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

So it is possible that Christ accompanied Moses and the Jews when they left Egypt. Although this strictly speaking is the anointing, it could also refer to the one who is anointed.

Colossians 1:15-17
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

So God who created all things, created them through Christ. Surely this suggests that he must have existed before all things in order for God to create all things. The universe, the angels, man, and animals existed before Jesus was born as a man. But the scriptures say that God created all these things through Christ.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

So Jesus had glory before the world began. How can some people say that Jesus didn’t pre-exist his earthly existence as a man?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Compare Luke 10:18 with Revelation 12:1-10. Jesus said that he saw Satan fall. Was this in a vision or did he literally see him fall?.

John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

The last verse says I am, which means I exist or I existed. This is the clearest statement of Jesus existing before he came to earth as a man. Jesus himself said these words, so who are we to say otherwise?

Finally to conclude this part of the study, I want to point out a very interesting scripture from the Book of Proverbs. The verse is Proverbs 8:22-30  and it talks about the concept of wisdom, then to wisdom himself:

22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,

From this verse we can see the following points.

  • This person was brought forth as the first of Gods works. This person was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. This person was given birth before creation.
  • This person was the craftsman at his side and rejoiced in his presence before creation.
  • This person is not the same age as the Father.

But some say that Wisdom isn’t Christ, rather this is just wisdom in a conceptual sense and it is true that wisdom is being spoken of in that way as wisdom is referred to as a she. But from verse 22 onward it changes tempo. With terms like I was given birth, I was the craftsman at his side and I was filled with delight, we have to admit that it seems to be talking about a person.

Even today we refer to objects or concepts as ‘she’. We call boats, cars, storms, etc., ‘she’. e.g., “She was a bad storm alright”, or “She can really go fast”. But if I said “He can really go fast” when talking about a car, then no one would understand what I meant and would think I was talking about a person and not a car.

But if wisdom in God was the first to be begotten (brought forth) then who was really first to be begotten? Was it wisdom or the son? Or are they one in the same? For God created all things with wisdom and would it be incorrect to call Jesus ‘Wisdom’. If God created all things in truth, would it be incorrect to call Christ the ‘Truth’. If God who is the originator of all life gave that life to his son, then could we not say that Jesus is the ‘Life’. It appears that he is all those concepts or attributes of God, but personified. After all God created all creation through Christ and so would it not be befitting for Christ to be the personification of all those attributes of God.

Remember these two points:

  1. That the fullness of God’s nature dwells in Christ and Christ is a person. So if he reflects the fullness of God, then would it not be fair to say that Christ has all the attributes of God in person. He is God’s image after all.
  2. That Christ is between God and creation. He is the part or person where creation interfaces with God and God interfaces with creation. He is the only mediator for us. God created all things through his wisdom, and through his Word. Are both the Word and Wisdom Jesus Christ? Look at 1 Corinthians 1:24 (English-NIV)
    but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

    1 Corinthians 1:30 (English-NIV)
    It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Let’s look at a range of God’s attributes that Jesus personifies:

  • truth
  • life
  • light
  • peace
  • word
  • wisdom?

If we go back to Proverbs 8:22-30 and look at John 1:1, we see the following similarities.

John 1:1 (English-NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.
Compare with “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works” and “I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began”. Proverbs 8 22-23

Hebrews 1:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Compare with “When there were no oceans, I was given birth”. Proverbs 8:24

Colossians 1:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Compare with “Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,”. Proverbs 8:30


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    Gospel means good news. Gene’s doctrine is not good news.

    #868374
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    “His name is” God’s Holy Spirit’s name; not Jesus’ Christ’s name.

    This is as clear as mud.

    #868376
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel…..So the words I will, mean the three will to you right?  The three is “they” , the singular is “I” . But none of those said they were Jesus Christ,

    Genesis 18:1 And the Lord appeared to him

    in the vale of Mambre as he was sitting at the door of his tent, in the very heat of the day.

    explain Gene:

    WHO IS THIS LORD FOR YOU IN THE ABOVE?

    2And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him

    three men standing near him:

    and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and 

    adored down to the ground.

     3And he said:

    Lord, if I have found favour in thy sight,

    EXPLAIN Gene:

    WHO IS THIS LORD FOR YOU IN THE ABOVE DESPITE

    THEY WERE THREE AND ABRAHAM ADDRESSED 

    ONE PERSON?

    Cont.

    pass not away from thy servant: 4But I will fetch a little water, and wash ye your feet, and rest ye under the tree. 5And I will set a morsel of bread,

    and strengthen ye

    YOUR HEART,  SINGULAR:

    TO WHOM THIS HEART BELONG???

    OBVIOUS TO THE SAME LORD WHOM YOU STILL HAVE TO TELL ME 

    WHO HE IS???

    Cont.

    afterwards you shall pass on: for therefore are you come aside to your servant.

    And THEY said: Do as thou hast spoken.

    Gene DID THE THREE MEN ANSWERED TOGETHER,

    WHY??? WHAT IS YOUR PERCEPTION??? 

    ADDRESSING ONE PERSON AND THE THREE

    ANSWERED?

    IS IT A NORMAL PROCEDURE, AND WHERE IN SCRIPTURE WE MEET AGAIN SUCH CONVERSATION???

    DESPITE ABRAHAM 

    ADDRESSED ONLY

    ONE LORD?

    WHOM YOU STILL HAVE TO TELL ME 

    WHO THIS LORD IS???

    COMMIT YOURSELF Gene PLEASE!!!

    DIDN’T YOU CHECK TO WHOM  THE TITLE 

    LORD IS REFERRING TO???

    YOU:Carmel…..So the words I will, mean the three will to you right?

      The three is “they” , the singular is “I” . But none of those said they were Jesus Christ, that’s you false renditions again of what you trying to force our scriptures to say?

    ME: DID I SAY SO Gene??? what made you think so???

    ISN’T IT YOUR FALSE ASSUMPTION???

    I SIMPLY ASKED QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS WHAT IT LOOKS RATHER CONFUSING, SIMPLY

    TO HERE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. NO??? 

    NOW, Gene, IN MY FIRST POST REGARDING Genesis 18, I ONLY POSTED

    Genesis 18:1 to 5,

    AND JUMPED ONTO

    16 TO 18,

    AND STOPPED ALTOGETHER!

    HOW COME NOW YOU POSTED

    AND REFERRED TO VERSES

    11 TO 15  WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FIRST POST WHICH WAS YOUR ANSWER TO MY FIRST POST IN THIS REGARD BUT YOU STILL SAID

    YOU:  “forcing our text to say what in fact it is not even hinting at”.

    ME:  THUS Gene,

    WILL YOU BE DECENT ENOUGH, BE SPECIFIC AND SHOW ME WHERE I FORCED THE TEXT TO SAY WHAT IN FACT IT IS NOT EVEN HINTED AT 

    IN MY FIRST POST!!!

    NOW BACK TO YOUR LAST POST AGAIN:

    YOU:Carmel…..So the words I will, mean the three will to you right?

      The three is “they” , the singular is “I”.

    ME: WHERE DID I SAY SO Gene???

    WHAT MADE YOU SAY SO???

    I SIMPLY ASKED QUESTIONS  TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY IN THIS RATHER CONFUSING CONVERSATION! NO???

    IS IT  NORMALLY IN SCRIPTURE TO READ SUCH CONFUSED CONVERSATION???

    WHERE IN SCRIPTURE WE READ SOMETHING SIMILAR???

    CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT YOU TAKE SCRIPTURE  AS IT IS!

    CONFUSING???

    SAY SOMETHING Gene! WHAT CONCLUSIONS YOU HAVE IN MIND???

    YOU: But none of those said they were Jesus Christ,

    that’s you false renditions again of what you trying to force our scriptures to say?

     

    ME: FOR GOD’S SAKE I AM NOT INTERESTED OF WHAT THE THREE MEN SAID, OR HAD TO SAY,

    I AM INTERESTED ONLY OF WHAT THE  SCRIPTURE, IN OUR CASE 

    IN RELATION TO WHAT ABRAHAM 

    ADDRESSED TO!!!

    I MEAN WHEN HE CALLED AT LEAST

    ONE OF THEM

    LORD

    WHOM YOU STILL HAVE TO TELL ME 

    WHO HE IS THIS LORD!!!

    SOMETHING YOU DIDNT COMMIT YOURSELF TO, FOR A REASON ONLY YOU KNOW, WHICH DEFINITELY FOR YOU, WAS NOT SO COMFORTABLE TO DO SO UP TO NOW, AND

    ALSO NOT SOMETHING BY WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE ENDED UP

    RIGHT IN YOUR ARGUMENT!

    DESPITE THEY WERE THREE, AND

    THREE ANSWERED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD

    ADDRESSED BY ABRAHAM!

    YOU: Nowhere in scripture does it say those three that appeared to Abraham were

    all God’s, 

    that is you “forcing our text to say what in fact it is not even hinting at”.

    FIRST AND FOREMOST Gene,

    IT IS YOU WHO ARE FORCING MY TEXT

    TO SAY SOMETHING WHICH IN FACT IT IS NOT EVEN HINTED AT!

    OR RATHER YOU ARE SIMPLY LYING SINCE 

    I NEVER USED THE WORD 

    GODS AT ALL

    BUT TO ME WITHOUT FORCING THE TEXT FOR SURE

    IT COULD WELL MEAN THAT  THEY  WERE ALL

    THREE LORDS

    AS MUCH AS

    ONE LORD!!!

    SINCE THE ANSWER WAS IN BOTH MANNERS, I MEAN SINGULAR AND PLURAL 

     

    NOW LET’S READ THE LAST BIT OF THIS

    CONFUSED CONVERSATION! FOR YOU Gene THERE’S NO DOUBT!

    Genesis 18:9And when THEY had eaten,

    THEY said to him:

    AGAIN THE THREE OF THEM SPOKE!

    Where is Sara thy wife?

    HE ANSWERED: LO, SHE IS IN THE TENT.

    10And HE said to him:

    BACK AGAIN TO THE LORD ??????????? AS ONE PERSON

    I will return

    and come to thee at this time, life accompanying and Sara thy wife shall have a son.

    IN THE ABOVE

    THIS MYSTERIOUS LORD, AGAIN FOR YOU Gene, 

    ON HIS OWN WOULD FOR SURE RETURN BACK TO SARA, 

    AND SHE SHALL HAVE A SON!!!!

    ANOTHER MYSTERIOUS TASK BY

    THIS MYSTERIOUS LORD! 

    THE FACT THAT WHAT IN ACTUAL FACT WOULD HAPPEN,

    THERE WOULD NOT BE THE NEED FOR

    THIS MYSTERIOUS LORD TO BE 

    THREE

    IN ORDER

    SIMPLY FOR SARA TO BE CONCEIVED AND GIVE BIRTH

    TO ISAAC ALL IN ONE INSTANT

    WITH RESPECT TO SCRIPTURE! NO???

    WHICH MADE SARA INSANE WITH ASTONISHMENT TO THE EXTENT THAT SHE

    LAUGHED 

    THE FACT THAT ABRAHAM,  STRANGELY ENOUGH NOT 

    SARA AS NORMALLY WOMEN DO GIVE NAMES TO THEIR CHILD,

    NAMED HIM ISAAK!!!

    The name Isaac: Summary

    Meaning
    Laughter, He Will Laugh
    Etymology
    From the verbs צחק (sahaq) and שחק (sahaq), to laugh or make fun.

    NOW Gene, READ HEREUNDER IN RELATION TO WHAT HAPPENED

    WHEN THIS MYSTERIOUS LORD VISITED

    MYSTERIOUSLY SARA!

    Genesis 21:1And the Lord visited Sara, as he had promised:

    and fulfilled what he had spoken.

    Gene, WHAT HE FULFILLED ON THE DAY OF HIS

    MYSTERIOUS VISIT ???

    2And she conceived and bore a son in her old age,

    at the time that God had foretold her.

    DID YOU GET IT Gene????

    GOD FORETOLD SARA!

    WHO IS THIS RATHER. FOR THE FIRST TIME OF WHOM SCRIPTURE MADE CLEAR

    THAT HE WAS IN ACTUAL FACT 

    GOD

    BOTH ONE LORD AND

    ALSO THREE

    IN RELATION TO THE

    CONFUSED CONVERSATION IN GENESIS 18?????

    KEEEP IN MIND THAT

    NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME  AND LIVE!

    THER’S ONLY

    ONE LORD AND GOD Gene! 

    OUR LORD  GOD JESUS CHRIST!

    ONLY HIM HUMANS CAN SEE AND LIVE, 

    IN THE SAME WAY, ABRAHAM DID SEE AND WAS GLAD TO BECOME A FATHER WITHOUT INTERCOURSE WITH SARA:

    John8:56 Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day:

    he saw it, and was glad.

    BACK TO Genesis 21:

    3And Abraham called the name of his son, whom Sara bore him, Isaac.

    NOT SARA NAMED HIM, SIMPLY AS SHE NEVER WAS PREGNANT WITH ISAAK AT ALL!

    SHE HAD NO AUTHORITY AS MOTHER OVER ISAAK!

     4And he circumcised him the eighth day, as God had commanded him, 5When he was a hundred years old: for at this age of his father was Isaac born. 6And Sara said:

    God hath made a laughter for me:

    WHY LAUGHTER??? GOD SIMPLY SHOWED SARA THAT

    HE DOESN’T NEED A WOMAN AND THE SEXUAL PROCESS AT ALL TO GIVE BIRTH, GOD MADE FUN OF SARA AND TO FEEL USELESS, CHILDISH, AND AT THE SAME TIME 

    BLESSED, AS A WOMAN

    צחק  שחק

    The verbs צחק (sahaq) and שחק (sahaq) are probably two different written forms of the same verbal verb: both mean

    to laugh, to express joy or delight, to have fun, to sport, to play, to fool around, to deride, to mock, and so on.

    whosoever shall hear of it

    will laugh with me.

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO 

    GOD’S OWN WORK

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT

    “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN!!!

    7And again she said: Who would believe that Abraham should hear that Sara gave suck to a son,

    SHE NEVER GAVE BIRTH AS  WOMEN NORMALLY DO!

    BUT SHE GAVE SUCK TO ISAAK

    AS WOMEN NORMALLY DO!

    whom she bore to him in his old age.

    IN HIS USELESS AGE!

    ALL GOD’S OWN WORK SIMPLY SO 

    ISAAK , OR RATHER

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN AS A SPIRIT, PRE-EXISTED EMBODIED IN ISAAK, WOULD BE

    THE BEGINNING!!!

    AND MAINTAIN HIS PRIMACY

    OF THE 

    ETERNAL COVENANT 

    PERFECT WITHOUT THE LEAST SPECK OF SATAN’S

    MEDDLING, 

    SINCE IT IS 

    ETERNAL!!!

    AND HUMANS ARE MORTAL

    Gene, ENJOY IN YOUR ANSWER WITH YOUR NORMAL

    BLA, BLA, and BLA

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #868378
    Ed J
    Participant

    This is as clear as mud.

    Hi Proclaimer,

    The HolySpirit’s name is “The Word”

    #868379
    Ed J
    Participant

    “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt 28:19)

    the name of the Father – JEHOVAH

    the name of the Son – Jesus

    the name of the Holy Spirit – The Word

    “But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them” (Isaiah 63:10 )

    #868380
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Edj,

    FIRST AND FOREMOST 

    ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND TO ALL THOSE ON HEAVEN NET!

    YOU: the name of the Son – Jesus

    ME: HUMBLY SPEAKING IT’S NOT YOUR FAVOURITE SINCE IT IS LONG, BUT

    THE LOVE FOR GOD’S TRUTH MAKES YOU GO DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF IT!

    WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, FROM MY SIDE, IT IS

    THE TRUTH AS IT WAS REVEALED TO ME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND THAT  I AM SUBJECT TO THIS

    MORTAL  CORRUPTED FLESH BODY, THE ENEMY OF GOD ON EARTH!

     

    WHEN IN SCRIPTURE WE MEET THE TITLE

    “THE SON”, 

    IT IS NOT JUST

    JESUS, THE MAN!!!

    CARNAL!!!

    JESUS IS THE NAME BOTH OF

    THE SON OF MAN “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE,  IN

    JESUS FLESH BODY,

    ANNOUNCED PURPOSELY IN A DREAM, EARTHLY, BY

    GABRIEL TO JOSEPH!

    AND ALSO THE NAME OF

    THE HOLY GHOST, THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE, IN

    JESUS’SOUL!

    SPIRITUAL!!!

    ANNOUNCED DIRECTLY FROM HEAVEN BY

    GABRIEL TO MARY

    THE MOTHER OF ALL SOULS!

    FROM THE CROSS BY JESUS!

    Luke 1:35…..And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

    SIMPLY TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, WITH

    A FLESH BODY, AND WITH A SOUL,

    ALL DIVINE!!!

    CONFIRMED IN SCRIPTURE!

    TWO IN ONE FLESH

    SEPARATED ON HIS BIRTH

    LIKE HUMANS ARE, AND 

    UNITED ON HIS DEATH 

    “THE WORD” JESUS

    THE SON/DIVINE OF MAN,

    BOTH AS ONE IN

    CHRIST, 

    LIKE HUMANS WOULD EVENTUALLY BE:

    WE WILL BE LIKE ONTO HIM AS WE SEE HIM AS HE IS!

    SCRIPTURE:

    ACTS 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know

    most certainly,

    that God hath made

    both LORD and CHRIST,

    this SAME Jesus, 

    A CLEAR REFERENCE TO “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS’DIVINE NATURE!

    whom you have crucified.

    BY WHICH DEED

    THE HOLY GHOST, IN JESUS’SOUL ACQUIRED 

    JESUS’FLESH BODY, in the same way, JESUS’ THE SON OF MAN ACQUIRED EQUIVALENTLY 

    THE HOLY GHOST!

    ONE SUBSTANCE

    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH 

    JESUS CHRIST FROM THEN ON

    MANIFESTED HIMSELF ON EARTH IN ONE INSTANT BOTH

    VISIBLE IN FLESH, without losing His

    INVISIBLE SPIRITUAL STATE!

    UNIQUE GODMAN!!!

    ATTENTION Edj,

    ATTRIBUTED TO THE 

    SON!!! INSTANTLY ON JESUS’ DEATH,

    ONE SUBSTANCE! I REPEAT:

    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN

    CHRIST!!!

     

    MOST POWERFUL EVER! 

    JESUS CHRIST, WAS TAKEN BY SATAN,

    WHO WAS SIMPLY KEPT ALIVE BY CHRIST

    ETERNAL LIFE

    IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH HIS/SATAN’S

    PROCEDURE IN HELL, AND HE HIMSELF 

    PROCLAIMED JESUS  BOTH

    ETERNAL LIFE, FOR ALL THOSE IN HELL,

    GODMAN 

    IN FLESH

    MOSES BURNING BUSH AND NOT CONSUMED!!!

    PRECISELY IN HELL IN FRONT OF HIS ASSOCIATES!

    BY WHICH ACT GOD THE FATHER FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME,

    AS/IN CHRIST

    WAS KNOWN AND ACCEPTED 

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    Scripture: John 20:28 Thomas answered, and said to him:

    My Lord, and my God. 

    THE ABOVE IS A REFERENCE TO WHAT HAPPENED IN HELL, 

    MORE DETAIL AVAILABLE THANKS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO FURNISHES ME WITH ALL THIS DESPITE A

    SINNER, AND A MERE UNQUALIFIED TRADE MAN!

    SIMPLY A HOUSEHOLDER AND A

    SCRIBE IN THE WORK OF GODS KINGDOM!

      Matthew 13: 52 He said unto them: Therefore every scribe instructed in the kingdom of heaven, is like to a man that is a householder, who bringeth forth out of his treasure

    new things and old.

    Now to:

    Mark 1:8 I have baptized you with water;

    THE WATER IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO

    THE HOLY SPIRIT

    FROM THE FATHER, NOT FROM THE SON, THE FACT THAT JOHN WAS SENT BY

    THE FATHER!

    BY WHICH DEED 

    JOHN CAST OUT SATAN FROM HUMAN SOUL/HEART! TEMPORARY, IN ORDER, TO ACCEPT

    JESUS’GOSPEL!

    …but he

    shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

    GLORIFIED IN “THE WORD: JESUS’FLESH AND BLOOD ON THE CROSS AND VICE VERSA! John13:32-33

    NOW THE

    HE

     IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO THE HUMAN BEING,

    JESUS, IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN IN HIS

    FLESH AND HIS SOUL

    NOT YET GLORIFIED UNITED ONE SUBSTANCE IN

    CHRIST!

    SCRIPTURE:

    John20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you.

    As the Father hath

    SENT ME,

    A CLEAR REFERENCE TO HIS STATE

    IN THE SPIRIT,

    THE SPIRITUAL ETERNAL COVENANT! 

    THE NEW TESTAMENT,

    I also send you. 

    THOUGH HUMANS EX SATANIC,

    IN THE PROCESS OF THE SPIRITUAL CHURCH OF GOD,

    THE BRIDE TO BE, THE NEW JERUSALEM TO BE.

    THE NEW SPIRITUAL/FLESH BODY TO BE,

    DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER,

    WHEN THE FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY IS EMBODIED

    ALL IN ALL IN 

    JESUS CHRIST BODY. AND JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF AS A SPIRIT RETURN BACK TO HIS ORIGINAL STATE IN

    THE FATHER’S BOSOM!

    AS HE ETERNALLY WAS 

    IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER,

    BEFORE CREATION STARTED!

    1Corinthians 15:38 But God

    giveth it a body as he will: 

    AS MUCH AS 

    JESUS’ FLESH, THE RANSOM, WAS PROVIDED BY THE FATHER, by his own

    WORD IN

    “THE WORD” MADE FLESH,

    AFTER JESUS,

    THE SON OF GOD OF THE HOLY GHOST CAME OUT OF MARY AS A

    SPIRIT: sent by the Father!

    THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD FULLY LUMINOUS,

    IN THE SAME WAY

    ISAAK WAS BORN THROUGH SARA!

    totally of GOD! and NOTHING OF EARTH!

    THE BEGINNING

    OF THE NEW ETERNAL SPIRITUAL/FLESHCOVENANT.

    NOW BACK TO: 

    John20:22 When he had said this,

    he breathed on them; and he said to them:

    Receive ye the Holy Ghost.

    ATTRIBUTED TO 

    THE SON!!! GLORIFIED

    BOTH “THE WORD” and THE HOLY GHOST, ONE SUBSTANCE  IN

    CHRIST JESUS.

    SCRIPTURE:

    John5:25 Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear

    the voice of

    (A) the Son of God,

    Edj, THE VOICE OF GOD IS 

    THE HOLY GHOST

    NOT “THE WORD”  OF GOD

    PRECISELY  HEARD IN HELL PREACHING HIS/JESUS’ GOSPEL OF

    THE SON/DIVINE OF MAN!

    and they that hear shall live. 

    THUS WERE TAKEN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HEAVEN AND WERE PRESENTED

    AS THE FRUIT OF “THE WORD” JESUS’FLESH BODY, THE RANSOM; TO 

    THE FATHER! THE PROVIDER!

    26For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given

    the Son

    NOT JUST THE HOLY GHOST, THE SON OF GOD,  OK??? BUT ALSO “THE WORD”

    THE SON OF MAN!

    ETERNAL LIFE!!!

    AGAIN ONCE UNITED WITH THE LIFE GIVEN SPIRIT,

    THE HOLY GHOST, READ:

    also to have life in himself: 27And he hath given him power to do judgment,

    ATTENTION PLEASE:

    because he is

    (ALSO)

    (B) the Son of man.

    GLORIFIED ONE SUBSTANCE IN

    CHRIST John13:31-32, John17:1

    GODMAN IN

    HELL, on

    EARTH, and in

    HEAVEN 

    ON THE RIGHT AND OF GOD THE FATHER!!!

    ACTS 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost,

    looking up steadfastly to heaven,

    saw the glory of God,

    and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.  

    UNITED IN ONE SAME GLORY

    Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be,

    which shall go forth from my mouth:

    it shall not return to me

    void,

    but it shall do whatsoever I please, and

    shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.

    HOW???

    reflect: “THE WORD” LEFT THE FATHER’S MOUTH AS A SPIRIT!!!

    let there be light!

    NOW IN ORDER NOT TO RETURN VOID,

    “THE WORD”

    RETAINED HIS ORIGINAL SPIRIT,

    ETERNAL LIFE!

    IN ALL THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE’S HEART/SOUL

    ETERNALLY AT ALL COSTS!!!

    PROSPERRING ON EARTH!!!

    AND ALSO RETURNED TO THE FATHER IN BOTH

    SPIRIT AND FLESH! IN

    CHRIST

    THE FATHER’S BODY YET TO BE!!!

    Genesis 2:24Wherefore a man shall leave

    father and mother,

    and shall cleave to

    his wife:

    and they shall be

    two in one flesh.

    I LEAVE IT TO YOU TO DISCERN

    WHO THE CHARACTERS ARE ALSO SPIRITUAL IN THE ABOVE

    NOT JUST FLESH IN ADAM, AND EVE!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #868382
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …..show me where what I am saying is not GOOD NEWS,  I TIE OUR HUMAN IDENITY “EXACTLY WITH THE MAN JESUS’,  how is thats not GOOD NEWS. 

    Your GOSPEL is bad news, because it pushes Jesus’ human IDENITY AWAY FROM HIS human  BROTHERS AND SISTER,   you remove him from the human race and try to place him some where else, which you by the way you don’t even know were.  You have quite the nerve saying what I say is bad news. 

    I find what you said about me both Demning and Offensive.  Bad Form Proclaimer?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #868383
    Berean
    Participant

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of peace.

    Wonderful

    6382

    peh’-leh

    from ‘pala’ ‘(6381); a miracle: – wonderful thing, wonder (-ful, -fully).

    *******

    Judges 13:18

    And the angel of Jehovah said unto him, Why askest thou my name thus, for it is secret

    6383

    pil’iy
    pil-ee ‘

    or paliy1 {paw-lee ‘}; from ‘pala’ ‘(6381); remarkable: – secret, wonderful.

    The Angel of YAHVEH IS THE SON OF GOD.

    #868384
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    The HolySpirit’s name is “The Word”

    What is the Sword of the Spirit then?

    #868386
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The Gospel according to Gene

    Proclaimer. …..show me where what I am saying is not GOOD NEWS,

    Example 1

    A man follows and loves God his whole life. But he denies God on the last day of his life and tells him in no uncertain terms that he does not want God in his life ever again. He dies and is eternally cut off from God. On Judgement Day, he makes the argument that he had no free will, so why should he suffer for choices that he had no control over. God said too bad. That is the way it is, ask Gene. Possible and likely to happen if Gene is correct.
    – The gospel according to Gene.

    Example 2)

    God didn’t pay the highest price for us. He didn’t send his firstborn into the world from Heaven. In fact, we do not know who the first born actually is. The first to be with God is a mystery. Instead, God whipped up a man descended from Adam and turned him into the lamb to be sacrificed. He decided to exalt that guy to the highest position as a result. If that dude failed, then God could easily whip up another dude. But of course, no free will meant that he had no choice anyway, so he just followed God’s program as an autonomous robot and then he gets the highest reward possible.
    – The Gospel according to Gene.

    Example 3

    The way to interpret scripture is to basically take an opposite meaning to what the clear text says. If it says that Jesus went to the Father in the glory he had with him before the cosmos, it means that he didn’t return to the glory he had because he wasn’t with the Father in the beginning. This little trick has meant that all who earnestly seek God and truth are not able to cypher this code in scripture. In fact, only Gene, Jodi, and a few others ever understood that you need to take the opposite meaning of what is written. This is bad news for the vast majority of people who honestly seek God and truth. They are at risk of not having salvation because they believed what the text actually said, thus are deceived.
    – The Gospel according to Gene.

    Example 4

    Gene has the truth, but nearly every other Believer on the planet does not.  However, they cannot hear Gene because they have no free will. So they cannot choose to hear him. They are condemned because they rejected the truth. This is by design.
    – The Gospel according to Gene.

    Example 5

    Heaven is like a computer program. No one really has a choice. It is a program that plays out. It seems that only Gene and Jodi have the truth. They didn’t even choose this position, but their captivated will forced them to be the only true teachers in almost all the Earth. Nevertheless, they will be honored for their great service despite them not even choosing all this. They will happily take this of course. When they preach their gospel to others, if they are honest, they will point out that the hearer has a 0.000000001% chance of their captivated will leading them to the truth anyway. So no point in preaching the gospel. In reality, it has nothing to do with preaching the message and people choosing to believe and respond accordingly anyway. Rather it is about captivated wills and whether they lead us to the truth. In 99.9999999% of cases, their captivated wills will not lead them to the truth and will be condemned for not having the truth.
    – The Gospel according to Gene.

    #868387
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt 28:19)

    the name of the Father – JEHOVAH

    the name of the Son – Jesus

    the name of the Holy Spirit – The Word

    Encyclopedia Britannia, the 11th edition vol 3, page 365-366
    “The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Ghost by the Catholic church in the second century.

    Encyclopedia Britannia, vol 3, page 82
    “Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.”

    Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53
    The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.

    Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume2
    Christian baptism was administered using the words, “in the name of Jesus”. page 377.

    The use of the trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in the early Church’s history.page 378

    “Go ye therefore and teach all nations, in my name” … the latter form being the more frequent.page 380.

    Baptism was always in the name of Jesus until time of Justin Martyr, when the triune formula was used. page 389.

    Catholic Encyclopedia, vol 2, page 377,
    Catholics acknowledge that baptism in Jesus’ name was changed by the Catholic church.

    Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435
    The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus.

    Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88
    It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ, or Lord Jesus.

    The Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 states,
    The early Church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the development of the trinity doctrine in the 2nd Century.

    #868388
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Your GOSPEL is bad news, because it pushes Jesus’ human IDENITY AWAY FROM HIS human  BROTHERS AND SISTER,   you remove him from the human race and try to place him some where else, which you by the way you don’t even know were.  You have quite the nerve saying what I say is bad news. 

    This is a blatant lie. We have told you repeatedly that he emptied himself and came in the flesh. He was a baby and had to learn obedience just like us. Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

    You should apologize Gene. But we know what manner of man you are right?

    #868391
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …..example 1….. that simply not true , if God has taken out of a person the heart of stone and replaced it with a heart of Flesh, then he has changed that person and the way he or she thinks,

    Your ot g er example are just like it also, your self willed salvation is nothing more then a lie, scripture tell us ‘”ther is none that calls on the name of the Lord” , and again  “there is non rightious no not even one”,  but you say you are because  you say  by your own so-called “freewill” you can  manage to save yourself even though no, one else can according to scriptures.

    No, what you are saying is a blatant lie,  by Your belief of a “freewill” salvation created by yourself that’s  one of the biggest lies anyone could ever believe in. It deals God the Father and Jesus Christ complete out of anything that has to do with our salvation, and turns it all over to ourselves. Over to our own,  so-called “freewill” choices.  YOUR MAN MADE SALVATION BY ‘FREEWILLS” IS  a total LIE, and corruption of our scriptures, as far away from the truth a person  can get. IMO

    You don’t even believe that it is God himself that gives us the Faith , to even believe in him and Jesus. None of that came from a man “so-called “freewill”. But from the will of God working in all those called by  him.   Salvation is a work of God and God alone Proclaimer.  There is nothing bad about that Gospel ,  it’s your gospel that’s bad, because it destory’s the work of God and Jesus in humanity, and makes it all about a  “random” “access”  salvation, that is acquire by the person,  him or herself.  Now that’s what I call bad news.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

     

    #868392
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …..example 1….. that simply not true , if God has taken out of a person the heart of stone and replaced it with a heart of Flesh, then he has changed that person and the way he or she thinks,

    Did they choose to receive this salvation or was it a captivated will as you say?

    The change of heart still requires the ability to choose the new heart.

    #868393
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Your ot g er example are just like it also, your self willed salvation is nothing more then a lie, scripture tell us ‘”ther is none that calls on the name of the Lord” , and again “there is non rightious no not even one”, but you say you are because you say by your own so-called “freewill” you can manage to save yourself even though no, one else can according to scriptures.

    Seriously Gene, this is one of the worst posts I have read. It reveals a man with very little understanding of biblical things. It’s right up there with saying the earth is flat because it looks like that when you look at a football field.

    You are way out of your depth. It’s time to find out God’s will for your life.

    #868394
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene, when a man continually resists truth, God hands him over to delusion. So deluded can a man be that even though he is a fool, he actually thinks he is wise.

    #868395
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    The HolySpirit’s name is “The Word”

    Q. What is the Sword of the Spirit then?

    A. The Word

    #868396
    Ed J
    Participant

    What is the Sword of the Spirit then?

    Proclaimer,

    What is the sword that comes out of the rider on the white horse’s mouth?

    #868397
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer. ….perhaps that exactly what has happened to you, did you ever think about that?

    I know God ‘s “will” for my life, and it isn’t me saving myself by my own so-called  “freewill” choices, as your is.  God “works ” “in” those he is with, by taking out of them the heart of stone and giving them a heart of flesh, and writing on their hearts his law’s AND COMMANDMENTS, and even giving them the “FAITH” to even believe him and Jesus,   THATS HOW TRUE BELIEVERS ARE SAVED ,  No one will ever get up in God’s face and say as you do,  to him “his own so-called ,  “freewill”,  was what saved him.  

    Youŕ so-called  “freewill”  salvation is a joke at best, if you ask me. Because no such thing exists. Nor ever did exist either. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

    #868400
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Salvation is a work of God and God alone Proclaimer.

    Gene, HOW ABOUT TELLING US SOMETHING ABOUT

    HOW CONDEMNATION CAME?

    WAS IT ALSO GOD’S WILL?

    OR 

     

    LUCIFER’S WILL IN THE FIRST PLACE AS A

    SPIRIT?

    and CONSEQUENTLY 

    ADAM’S WILL IN THE SECOND PLACE AS A

    LIVING SOUL?

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

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