Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine 1 John 5:20 Page 84

1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 1,661 through 1,680 (of 1,982 total)
123…838485…9899100
  • Author
    Posts
  • July 12, 2012 at 4:26 am#305684
    jammin
    Participant

    mike boy
    your father is HUMAN
    are you not HUMAN?

    Christ's father is GOD
    is Christ not GOD?

    July 12, 2012 at 4:32 am#305685
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2012,13:08)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,16:29)
    Hi Charles and Pierre,

    Jesus' lineage is counted through Mary – making Mary – Jesus' real mother.

    God bless
    Ed J


    EDJ
    who would deny that ???

    but you do not understand it,


    Hi Pierre,

    Thus proving that Mary was not a surrogate mother, but Jesus biological mother; right?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    July 12, 2012 at 3:27 pm#305707
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,22:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2012,13:08)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,16:29)
    Hi Charles and Pierre,

    Jesus' lineage is counted through Mary – making Mary – Jesus' real mother.

    God bless
    Ed J


    EDJ
    who would deny that ???

    but you do not understand it,


    Hi Pierre,

    Thus proving that Mary was not a surrogate mother, but Jesus biological mother; right?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    edj

    and how is that ??? that it change anything ???

    a surrogate mother still a mother but a carrying mother,of someone else child ,in this case Gods child ;the son of God that was created the first of all creation,way before men was created ,

    what are prophets ??? are they not “the carryiers of the words of God ??? would this mean that they can not speak of their own ??? of cause not .they do have a live of their own.

    July 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm#305711
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,13:04)
    Oh.  Those words were supposedly said WHEN Jesus was on earth?  I thought the angels who revealed this Urantia revelation were saying this AS it was being written down.  :)

    My bad.  :)

    But are you saying that Jesus didn't want anything written down to teach us because we might interpret the writings differently?  Don't you suppose spreading the gospel by word of mouth would have distorted the words throughout the generations MUCH, MUCH more than having the ones who actually heard him speak writing them down?   ???

    I remember a game we played in school, where the teacher told one person a sentence, which was then related student to student until we went through the whole class.  The end sentence wasn't anything close to the sentence the teacher told the first kid.  :)  That in mind, how well do you suppose an oral translation of Jesus' time on earth and his teachings would have lasted over thousands of years –  being handed down through millions of people?


    Jesus taught as the occasion presented itself, it was never his intention for us to “petrify” his words into more laws, he wanted us to be guided by the spirit in our lives in the same way that he was.

    But to your point, did Jesus himself leave any writings? We would have surely made an idolatrous fetish of anything Jesus would have written or touched.

    I'm sure that Jesus expected records to be made after he left, he didn't forbid that, but true to form we have made a fetish out of even those writings.

    The Urantia Book reveals who wrote the 4 gospels:

    http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1373#U121_8_0

    July 12, 2012 at 6:07 pm#305712
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,10:33)

    Quote (mike ll64 @ July 12 2012,13:04)
    Oh.  Those words were supposedly said WHEN Jesus was on earth?  I thought the angels who revealed this Urantia revelation were saying this AS it was being written down.  :)

    My bad.  :)

    But are you saying that Jesus didn't want anything written down to teach us because we might interpret the writings differently?  Don't you suppose spreading the gospel by word of mouth would have distorted the words throughout the generations MUCH, MUCH more than having the ones who actually heard him speak writing them down?   ???

    I remember a game we played in school, where the teacher told one person a sentence, which was then related student to student until we went through the whole class.  The end sentence wasn't anything close to the sentence the teacher told the first kid.  :)  That in mind, how well do you suppose an oral translation of Jesus' time on earth and his teachings would have lasted over thousands of years –  being handed down through millions of people?


    Jesus taught as the occasion presented itself, it was never his intention for us to “petrify” his words into more laws, he wanted us to be guided by the spirit in our lives in the same way that he was.

    But to your point, did Jesus himself leave any writings? We would have surely made an idolatrous fetish of anything Jesus would have written or touched.

    I'm sure that Jesus expected records to be made after he left, he didn't forbid that, but true to form we have made a fetish out of even those writings.

    The Urantia Book reveals who wrote the 4 gospels:

    http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1373#U121_8_0


    Quote
    The Urantia Book reveals who wrote the 4 gospels:

    this is absurd ,we all know who did wright the scriptures beside the original writer ;every interested Christian that wanted to learn Gods word ,;yes this simple .

    this is what Paul mention to do with his letters ,

    only later became the need to turning it into a bussiness ,

    July 12, 2012 at 7:26 pm#305715
    Spock
    Participant

    Mike,

    Another interesting point in the story of Jesus revealed in the UB, at the beginning of Jesus public career he made sure that anything he had written left at the family home was destroyed.

    “Jesus had now assembled one half of his future corps of intimate associates, five who had for some time known him and one stranger, Nathaniel. Without further delay they crossed the Jordan and, going by the village of Nain, reached Nazareth late that evening.

    137:2.9 They all remained overnight with Joseph in Jesus’ boyhood home. The associates of Jesus little understood why their new-found teacher was so concerned with completely destroying every vestige of his writing which remained about the home in the form of the Ten Commandments and other mottoes and sayings. But this proceeding, together with the fact that they never saw him subsequently write—except upon the dust or in the sand—made a deep impression upon their minds.”

    Colter

    July 12, 2012 at 11:13 pm#305723
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Colter @ July 12 2012,10:33)
    I'm sure that Jesus expected records to be made after he left, he didn't forbid that, but true to form we have made a fetish out of even those writings.


    I disagree, Colter.  The words are very plain for all to see.  It's just that some people want something that the words don't teach to be the truth, because they like their own “truth” better than the scriptural truth.

    And that is where the arguments come in.  If Jesus says in John 17:5 that he had glory alongside God before the world began, then he did – end of story. This one little sentence Jesus spoke makes it clear that he existed before the world began, and he is not “God”, who he was alongside.  Yet many want to argue with Jesus' words.

    The scriptures are there to teach us, and I thank God for them.  I just don't understand how others can reach a conclusion that is totally opposite from what those scriptures teach.  It baffles me greatly.

    July 12, 2012 at 11:16 pm#305724
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ July 11 2012,22:25)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:34)
    jammin,

    Are you aware of the fact that most of the translations you quote scripture from have been doctored by Trinitarian human beings who are trying their best to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what they WANT them to teach?   In other words, do you KNOW what you're doing, or are you simply oblivious to this fact?


    i still a have a question for you boy. answer me first


    jammin,

    I've addressed your “nature” question repeatedly – at least 7 different times on 3 different threads.

    Either answer my question or don't. I don't really care.

    July 12, 2012 at 11:38 pm#305727
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2012,10:13)

    Quote (Colter @ July 12 2012,10:33)
    I'm sure that Jesus expected records to be made after he left, he didn't forbid that, but true to form we have made a fetish out of even those writings.


    I disagree, Colter.  The words are very plain for all to see.  It's just that some people want something that the words don't teach to be the truth, because they like their own “truth” better than the scriptural truth.

    And that is where the arguments come in.  If Jesus says in John 17:5 that he had glory alongside God before the world began, then he did – end of story.  This one little sentence Jesus spoke makes it clear that he existed before the world began, and he is not “God”, who he was alongside.  Yet many want to argue with Jesus' words.

    The scriptures are there to teach us, and I thank God for them.  I just don't understand how others can reach a conclusion that is totally opposite from what those scriptures teach.  It baffles me greatly.


    I agree Mike, Jesus existed before this world was, he resurrected himself from the dead by entering a new form and returning to earth, he now is Lord and God to mankind on this world.

    Colter

    July 12, 2012 at 11:52 pm#305729
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Well, I agree up to your second comma. :)

    July 13, 2012 at 4:30 am#305776
    Ed J
    Participant

    I'll even go up to the third comma.

    July 13, 2012 at 5:46 am#305779
    terraricca
    Participant

    I am stopped at the word THIS WORLD  i do not understand the meaning of it ,in the sentence it is not specified so I have reservation for the first or second and third coma :(

    July 13, 2012 at 6:35 am#305780
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,09:29)
    Hi Charles and Pierre,

    Jesus' lineage is counted through Mary – making Mary – Jesus' real mother.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    [/QUOTE]

    Edj,

    I'm afraid you ignored the fact that the origin of the lineage is not calculated through the woman.

    SO WHY ARE YOU CALCULATED JESUS LINEAGE THROUGH MARY.

    SHOW  SCRIPTURE REGARDING LINEAGE WHERE IT IS CALCULATED THROUGH THE WOMAN.

    NOW READ AGAIN AND REFLECT

    Is it possible for a woman to become conceived without seed??

    Definitely not.

    If the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit, is the seed eternal???

    Definitely yes.

    So if the origin of the seed is ETERNAL,and this seed conseived Mary,

    HOW CAN ONE DENY AND SAY THAT THE FETUS DID NOT ORIGINATE FROM ETERNITY??

    THE JEWS NEVER CALCULATED THE WOMAN FOR THE LINEAGE,AND MARY IS NOT CONSIDERRED THE PROOF OF JESUS' ORIGIN.

    JOSEPH HID THE ORIGIN OF JESUS, OTHERWISE SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN STONED.

    ALTHOUGH SHE CARRIED HIM,AND SHE WAS HIS MOTHER,SHE WAS STILL NOT CONSIDERRED AS THE LINEAGE

    SO DO NOT INVOLVE THE ORIGIN OF JESUS THROUGH MARY'S FLESH. SHE WAS ONLY FLESH,AND IT IS THE SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE ,WHICH IS THE SEED OF THE FATHER,THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING.

    GENESIS 12:7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto YOUR SEED will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

    OK HE MADE IT CLEAR.

    HE SPOKE TO ABRAM, NOT TO SARAI AND HE SAID :

    YOUR SEED.

    STOP DISCUSSING NONSENS

    LINEAGE THROUGH THE FATHER AS A JEW.

    THE LINEAGE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF

    And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph  ETC……….

    SO IF JESUS (AS WAS SUPPOSE0  THE SON OF JOSEPH,AND HE WASN'T

    HE IS THE SON OF GOD SO ETERNAL ACCORDING TO HIS FATHER.

    NOT ACCORDING TO HIS MOTHER

    peace and love in  Jesus

    Charles

    July 13, 2012 at 7:29 am#305784
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ July 13 2012,17:35)
    Edj,

    I'm afraid you ignored the fact that the origin of the lineage is not calculated through the woman.

    SO WHY ARE YOU CALCULATED JESUS LINEAGE THROUGH MARY.

    SHOW  SCRIPTURE REGARDING LINEAGE WHERE IT IS CALCULATED THROUGH THE WOMAN.

    peace and love in  Jesus
    Charles


    Hi Charles,

    Luke 3:23-31 and Romans 1:3 refer to Jesus lineage through Mary.
    And Yes of course – Jesus' father was the HolySpirit – one generation.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    July 13, 2012 at 8:14 am#305785
    journey42
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,10:38)
    I agree Mike, Jesus existed before this world was, he resurrected himself from the dead by entering a new form and returning to earth, he now is Lord and God to mankind on this world.

    Colter


    Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

    July 13, 2012 at 8:34 am#305786
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (journey42 @ July 13 2012,19:14)

    Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,10:38)
    I agree Mike, Jesus existed before this world was, he resurrected himself from the dead by entering a new form and returning to earth, he now is Lord and God to mankind on this world.

    Colter


    Acts 13:30   But God raised him from the dead:


    Hi Georgie,

    Yes of course, you can't resurrect yourself. (see Romans 8:11)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    July 13, 2012 at 12:43 pm#305795
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 13 2012,19:34)

    Quote (journey42 @ July 13 2012,19:14)

    Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,10:38)
    I agree Mike, Jesus existed before this world was, he resurrected himself from the dead by entering a new form and returning to earth, he now is Lord and God to mankind on this world.

    Colter


    Acts 13:30   But God raised him from the dead:


    Hi Georgie,

    Yes of course, you can't resurrect yourself. (see Romans 8:11)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    If you realize that Jesus was more then Human (yes, a human can't resurrect himself from the dead) then we can see that the divine person of The Son of God did not die when the mortal body of Jesus died. The Son returned in a new form, one that appears and disappears, it's not the original mortal body of Jesus but one that resembles the old form.

    For Jesus to have said “I will raise it up” and for the author of Acts to say “God raised him up” is synonymous.

    It's really that simple and that miraculous at the same time.

    Colter

    July 13, 2012 at 12:51 pm#305796
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,16:46)
    I am stopped at the word THIS WORLD  i do not understand the meaning of it ,in the sentence it is not specified so I have reservation for the first or second and third coma :(


    The Son of God who incarnate with the name specified for him by Gabriel is the co-creator of “this world”. He is indistinguishably unified in the ONE-ness of divinity, as a personified expression of The Father. He is eternal, there never was a time when the Son was the Son and the Father not A Father.

    The stumbling block for man is of “conception” of what God is. He's not an old man with a beard on a throne.

    God is spirit, and much much more, manifest in the plurality of his creator Sons, unified in divinity as ONE.

    Colter

    July 13, 2012 at 12:55 pm#305797
    Spock
    Participant

    Hike,

    This interest me while others will discount it, it's from Jesus of the UB:

    141:5.1 “One of the most eventful of all the evening conferences at Amathus was the session having to do with the discussion of spiritual unity. James Zebedee had asked, “Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?” When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: “James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity — and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.” UB

    Colter

    July 13, 2012 at 1:01 pm#305798
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 13 2012,23:51)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,16:46)
    I am stopped at the word THIS WORLD  i do not understand the meaning of it ,in the sentence it is not specified so I have reservation for the first or second and third coma :(


    The Son of God who incarnate with the name specified for him by Gabriel is the co-creator of “this world”. He is indistinguishably unified in the ONE-ness of divinity, as a personified expression of The Father. He is eternal, there never was a time when the Son was the Son and the Father not A Father.

    The stumbling block for man is of “conception” of what God is. He's not an old man with a beard on a throne.

    God is spirit, and much much more, manifest in the plurality of his creator Sons, unified in divinity as ONE.

    Colter


    sorry, I can't edit on this site, should read:

    He is eternal, there never was a time when the Son was not the Son and the Father not A Father.

    It may help to think of The Father as the volitional expression that moved out from the The Absolute in the theoretical, Eternal past.

    Colter

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