Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine 1 John 5:20 Page 83

1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 1,641 through 1,660 (of 1,982 total)
123…828384…9899100
  • Author
    Posts
  • July 10, 2012 at 1:22 am#305456
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ July 08 2012,21:18)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2012,13:54)
    jammin,

    You're the one making the claim that Jesus is from eternity by using a falsified Bible as “proof”.  How is it that you call ME the false teacher then?   ???

    And Micah wrote his prophecy hundreds of years BEFORE Jesus had a flesh body, so how could he say his origins were from “ancient times”?


    that is a prophecy mike

    i do not need your explanation mike.
    answer my question
    is mic 5.2 refers to flesh body of Christ? yes or no?
    if yes, the flesh body has its origin. do you agree? yes or no?


    jammy

    I like your question ;see this one ;Jn 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

    but his Christ born of the flesh ??? or is he born through the spirit ???

    think before you are answering ;

    July 10, 2012 at 1:32 am#305458
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    So that's it, jammin? You apparently CAN'T show me any mention of a “family tree” in the Hebrew text, since none exists.

    And the part you quoted from Gill wasn't even the part of the verse that speaks of the ORIGINS of the one Jehovah will send. ???

    But that's okay. The rest of us here can see that you can't defend your doctored translations. (Btw, calling people “boy”, and telling to “study hard” is not a defense of your position. Nor is quoting doctored Bibles and saying “that's what it says”, when the actual Hebrew and Greek texts say nothing of the sort.)

    July 10, 2012 at 5:08 am#305508
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2012,12:32)
    The rest of us here can see that you can't defend your doctored translations.  (Btw, calling people “boy”, and telling to “study hard” is not a defense of your position.  Nor is quoting doctored Bibles and saying “that's what it says”, when the actual Hebrew and Greek texts say nothing of the sort.)


    Hi Mike,

    Jammin doesn't seem to understand.

    He acts like altered texts are legit,
    even telling us to alter them    .      ???

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    July 10, 2012 at 3:52 pm#305524
    jammin
    Participant

    what is the use of hebrew and greek mike if you do not understand the verse???
    why dont you study hard boy.
    the verse is a prophecy. it talks about the messiah. that verse refers to the family line of Christ.
    the bible says that. it is not my own opinion. your opinion is not written boy. you are just using your imagination.

    T,
    Christ became flesh.
    the bible says that

    ed,

    make your own bible boy

    July 10, 2012 at 11:02 pm#305544
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ July 10 2012,09:52)
    what is the use of hebrew and greek mike if you do not understand the verse???
    why dont you study hard boy.
    the verse is a prophecy. it talks about the messiah. that verse refers to the family line of Christ.


    And who are you to say that I'M the one misunderstanding, jammin?

    The one whose origins are from ancient times is the one Jehovah will send. That one would turn out to be Jesus. There is nothing about any “family tree”. Besides, if it was just talking about Jesus' earthly ancestors, couldn't the same exact thing be said about the entire nation of Israel?

    Couldn't it be said about Jesus' brother James, his origins are from ancient times?

    Couldn't it have been said about ANY Jew who lived between the time Micah wrote his prophecy and TODAY?

    Actually, it wouldn't even have to be a Jew. It could be said about ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THE EARTH TODAY, jammin. Aren't all of our origins from ancient times in the context YOU'RE understanding Micah 5:2?

    July 11, 2012 at 1:00 am#305561
    terraricca
    Participant

    j

    Quote
    T,
    Christ became flesh.
    the bible says that

    this does not answer my question

    July 11, 2012 at 1:15 am#305562
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2012,23:08)
    Hi Mike,

    Jammin doesn't seem to understand.

    He acts like altered texts are legit,
    even telling us to alter them    .      ???


    He understands what he's doing just fine, Ed.  But what other choice does he have except to admit that Jesus is not God, but the Son of God? Since he can't bring himself to do that, he will just continue quoting Bibles that he KNOWS are doctored. It's all he has.

    July 11, 2012 at 11:22 am#305585
    Spock
    Participant

    In my faith life, based on the Urantia revelation by angels who were then present on earth when Jesus was here, we have this relevant quote directed at you who keep hacking each other to death:

    The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

    *Is the above true? Did Jesus say that?

    *Is the above true even if Jesus didn't say it?

    *Were the teachings of Jesus so diverse that different schools of thought could be derived from them, dividing the kingdom of believers against Jesus' expressed wishes and direct warnings?

    Ironically, the records that you guys argue over are a retelling of the events years after Jesus left as the authors understood him. You have divided opinions about someone else’s opinion…….that’s my opinion.

    July 11, 2012 at 11:50 am#305587
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2012,12:15)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2012,23:08)
    Hi Mike,

    Jammin doesn't seem to understand.

    He acts like altered texts are legit,
    even telling us to alter them    .      ???


    He understands what he's doing just fine, Ed.  But what other choice does he have except to admit that Jesus is not God, but the Son of God?  Since he can't bring himself to do that, he will just continue quoting Bibles that he KNOWS are doctored.  It's all he has.


    boy
    your father is HUMAN
    are you not HUMAN?

    Christ's father is GOD
    is Christ not GOD?

    mic 5.2 says that it refers to the family line of the messiah.
    that is what the bible says
    believe it or not

    your understanding about origin is not in the bible.

    let the bible speak
    Micah 5:2

    New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

    2 The Lord says,
      “Bethlehem, you might not be
         an important town in the nation of Judah.
      But out of you will come
         a ruler over Israel for me.
      His family line goes back
         to the early years of your nation.

    study hard boy

    July 11, 2012 at 3:33 pm#305593
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 10 2012,09:44)

    Quote (carmel @ July 09 2012,17:26)
    So my question is :

    Since the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit and conceived in Mary's womb and became a fetus, and then was born as a boy,

    IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

    YES OR NO!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Hi Charles, there are three answers to your question.

    1. Jesus' flesh – no
    2. Jesus' spirit – yes
    3. Jesus' lineage – back to Adam (through Mary)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Quote
    Since the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit and conceived in Mary's womb and became a fetus, and then was born as a boy,

    IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

    Edj,

    Is it possible for a woman to become conceived without seed??

    Definitely not.

    If the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit, is the seed eternal???

    Definitely yes.

    So if the origin of the seed is ETERNAL,and this seed conseived Mary,

    HOW CAN ONE DENY THAT THE FETUS DID NOT ORIGINATED FROM ETERNITY??

    THE JEWS NEVER CALCULATED THE WOMAN FOR THE LINEAGE,AND MARY IS NOT CONSIDERRED THE PROOF OF JESUS' ORIGIN.

    SO DO NOT INVOLVE THE ORIGIN OF JESUS THROUGH MARY'S FLESH. SHE WAS ONLY THE MATTER,AND IT IS THE SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE ,WHICH IS THE SEED OF THE FATHER,THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING.

    SO BACK TO YOU ANSWER

    1. Jesus' flesh – no   NOT CALCULATED AS THE ORIGIN, IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE SEED.

    2. Jesus' spirit – yes    THE TRUE ORIGIN OF JESUS THEREFORE ETERNAL

    3. Jesus' lineage – back to Adam (through Mary) THIS LINEAGE IS NOT JESUS' IT IS MARYS' SO IT IS NOT CALCULATED AS THE ORIGIN OF JESUS SINCE AS I SAID THAT THE ORIGIN IS ONLY THROUGH THE FATHER.

    SO JESUS ORIGINAL IS ETERNAL  THE TRUTH

    AND THAT IS FINAL

    DO NOT KEEP ON STRETCHING TO HIDE THE TRUTH

    Peace and love in Jesus the eternal  TRUE  GOD IN FLESH

    Charles

    July 11, 2012 at 3:40 pm#305594
    carmel
    Participant

    CORRECTION:

    HOW CAN ONE DENY,AND SAY THAT THE FETUS DID NOT ORIGINATED FROM ETERNITY??

    CHARLES

    July 11, 2012 at 5:14 pm#305596
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ July 12 2012,09:40)
    CORRECTION:

    HOW CAN ONE DENY,AND SAY  THAT THE FETUS DID NOT ORIGINATED FROM ETERNITY??

    CHARLES


    charles

    is Christ not born from the spirit ???

    and his mother Mary not a surrogate Mother that only supplied the clothing of flesh ???

    July 11, 2012 at 10:29 pm#305623
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Charles and Pierre,

    Jesus' lineage is counted through Mary – making Mary – Jesus' real mother.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    July 11, 2012 at 11:28 pm#305643
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Colter @ July 11 2012,05:22)
    Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings.


    Yet here you are, Colter, quoting from the record they said they never made. :)

    July 11, 2012 at 11:34 pm#305646
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    jammin,

    Are you aware of the fact that most of the translations you quote scripture from have been doctored by Trinitarian human beings who are trying their best to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what they WANT them to teach?   In other words, do you KNOW what you're doing, or are you simply oblivious to this fact?

    July 11, 2012 at 11:40 pm#305649
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ July 12 2012,02:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 10 2012,09:44)

    Quote (carmel @ July 09 2012,17:26)
    So my question is :

    Since the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit and conceived in Mary's womb and became a fetus, and then was born as a boy,

    IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

    YES OR NO!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Hi Charles, there are three answers to your question.

    1. Jesus' flesh – no
    2. Jesus' spirit – yes
    3. Jesus' lineage – back to Adam (through Mary)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Quote
    Since the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit and conceived in Mary's womb and became a fetus, and then was born as a boy,

    IS THIS BOY'S ORIGIN FROM ETERNITY??

    Edj,

    Is it possible for a woman to become conceived without seed??

    Definitely not.

    If the seed came from the Father through the Holy Spirit, is the seed eternal???

    Definitely yes.

    So if the origin of the seed is ETERNAL,and this seed conseived Mary,

    HOW CAN ONE DENY THAT THE FETUS DID NOT ORIGINATED FROM ETERNITY??

    THE JEWS NEVER CALCULATED THE WOMAN FOR THE LINEAGE,AND MARY IS NOT CONSIDERRED THE PROOF OF JESUS' ORIGIN.

    SO DO NOT INVOLVE THE ORIGIN OF JESUS THROUGH MARY'S FLESH. SHE WAS ONLY THE MATTER,AND IT IS THE SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE ,WHICH IS THE SEED OF THE FATHER,THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING.

    SO BACK TO YOU ANSWER

    1. Jesus' flesh – no   NOT CALCULATED AS THE ORIGIN, IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE SEED.

    2. Jesus' spirit – yes    THE TRUE ORIGIN OF JESUS THEREFORE ETERNAL

    3. Jesus' lineage – back to Adam (through Mary) THIS LINEAGE IS NOT JESUS' IT IS MARYS' SO IT IS NOT CALCULATED AS THE ORIGIN OF JESUS SINCE AS I SAID THAT THE ORIGIN IS ONLY THROUGH THE FATHER.

    SO JESUS ORIGINAL IS ETERNAL  THE TRUTH

    AND THAT IS FINAL

    DO NOT KEEP ON STRETCHING TO HIDE THE TRUTH

    Peace and love in Jesus the eternal  TRUE  GOD IN FLESH

    Charles


    Carmel.

    Did mary have to change his(baby jesus) nappies and give him her breast milk for food?

    wakeup.

    July 12, 2012 at 1:52 am#305672
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:28)

    Quote (Colter @ July 11 2012,05:22)
    Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings.


    Yet here you are, Colter, quoting from the record they said they never made.   :)


    That's because neither Jesus or the apostles wrote anything until long after Jesus left. They thought Jesus was “soon to return” to be the Messiah.

    The record of Jesus entire life was revealed in the UB by the angelic beings who were on the earth when Jesus was here.

    Colter

    July 12, 2012 at 2:04 am#305673
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Oh.  Those words were supposedly said WHEN Jesus was on earth?  I thought the angels who revealed this Urantia revelation were saying this AS it was being written down.  :)

    My bad.  :)

    But are you saying that Jesus didn't want anything written down to teach us because we might interpret the writings differently?  Don't you suppose spreading the gospel by word of mouth would have distorted the words throughout the generations MUCH, MUCH more than having the ones who actually heard him speak writing them down?   ???

    I remember a game we played in school, where the teacher told one person a sentence, which was then related student to student until we went through the whole class.  The end sentence wasn't anything close to the sentence the teacher told the first kid.  :)  That in mind, how well do you suppose an oral translation of Jesus' time on earth and his teachings would have lasted over thousands of years –  being handed down through millions of people?

    July 12, 2012 at 2:08 am#305674
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,16:29)
    Hi Charles and Pierre,

    Jesus' lineage is counted through Mary – making Mary – Jesus' real mother.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    EDJ

    who would deny that ???

    but you do not understand it,

    July 12, 2012 at 4:25 am#305683
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:34)
    jammin,

    Are you aware of the fact that most of the translations you quote scripture from have been doctored by Trinitarian human beings who are trying their best to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what they WANT them to teach?   In other words, do you KNOW what you're doing, or are you simply oblivious to this fact?


    i still a have a question for you boy. answer me first

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