What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 821 through 840 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #800231
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Your use of what you think is logic is a perfect example of the foolish results of trust in human wisdom.

     

    #800232
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    You offer

    ”That is not speaking of humans. It is speaking of the sons of God for the flesh is nothing and the Spirit is all”

    Do you skip to other possibilities and assume they are correct if you do not agree with the simple explanation?

    #800233
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Consider my words as you have no disagreement with them.

    #800234
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Please explain why you say this.

    #800235
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Not humans?

    Speaking of the angelic sons?

    Scripture does not say flesh is nothing but it contributes nothing.

     

    Men have souls to be saved. Salvation is not offered to angels. But it is not your hope?

     

    Which other scriptures are directed towards the angels?

    #800236
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Being a son of the Spirit trumps being a son of the flesh.

    I merely applied the lesser title to those that reject the greater one.

    #800244
    carmel
    Participant

    What is your confession regarding Jesus

     

    Put a cover on either end and you have written a book.

    But it is full of gnostic nonsense

    And that is after asking us to produce scripture!

    2 jn 9 is the only one you need.

    Nick,

    AGAIN BULLYING!!!!

    THAT’S ALL YOU ARE INTERESTED IN!!!!

    INDIRECTLY YOU CLAIMED THAT I DIDN’T PRODUCE SCRIPTURES, SO TO MAKE YOU AWARE,

    I PRODUCED: AT LEAST 30 VERSES OF SCRIPTURES, PLUS DEFINITION, FOR YOU TO SPECIFICALLY CONTRADICT!

    Now here is what you suggested!

    2 John9

    Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

    He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son.

     

     

    It is as clear as crystal why you don’t produce scriptures, and also not ready to discuss, or define it!

    As you can read, 2 John 9 has TWO STATEMENTS NOT ONE

    Now If in the truth you know WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT It would only be more appropriate, and DECENT if you were to

    COMMIT YOURSELF AND INDICATE WHICH OF THE TWO STATEMENTS YOU REFERRED IT TO MY POST, AND MORE IMPORTANT

    CLARIFY YOURSELF SPECIFICALLY WHERE!!!!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #800246
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Stay within what is written.

    Your own ideas add nothing useful.

    We cannot dialogue about your fanciful additions

    2Jn9

    #800247
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    You offer

    “Being a son of the Spirit trumps being a son of the flesh.

    I merely applied the lesser title to those that reject the greater one.”

     

    So please explain this too.

    #800256
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Have you fallen for the folly that says MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD?

    That is about as big an insult as you can offer God.

    Nick,

    ARE YOU EXPERT AS WELL IN THE FOLLIES?

    Read if you are interested in the truth, and in order to DISCERN what for you is THE INSULT I CAN OFFER GOD!

    UNDERSTAND MORE OF GOD’S WORK REGARDING MARY,

    DUE TO THE FACT THAT

    NO MARY NO JESUS

    THE WAY GOD ALMIGHTY OPTED TO ACHIEVE HIS KINGDOM FOR THE SAKE OF THE LOST

    WELL DECLARED BY PAUL IN:

    1 Corinthians 11:11 But yet neither is

    the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man,

     

    in the Lord    “THE WORD MADE FLESH” in

     

     

    THE HOLY SPIRIT

     

    BOTH BY “THE WORD” JESUS’ SPIRIT! THE DIVINE HUMAN BEING

     

     

    THE SON

     

     

    MARY’ SOUL,and JESUS’ FLESH  to respect what happened in the garden.

    ADAM’ S SOUL, and EVE’S FLESH RESPECTIVELY,

    ALSO BOTH BY “THE WORD”  THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE, SINCE ALL IN HIM…..

    IN THE MAN ADAM WHEN HE WAS CREATED!!

     

    WELL DECLARED HEREUNDER!

    12 For as the woman MARY, is of the man, JESUS, so also is the man JESUS by the woman:MARY.

    but all things of God.

    THE FATHER

    so the above is my CONFESSION REGARDING JESUS/MARY, OR MARY/JESUS

    SINCE THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME SPIRIT OF GOD, OBVIOUS ALL OF GOD!

    “THE WORD”, JESUS, THE SON, SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. REV 13:8

     

    Hereunder is an excerpt, which I copied and pasted, related to

    Saint Cyril of Alexandria’s Defense of Mary

    Saint Cyril of Alexandria was the Patriarch of Alexandria during the early part of the 5th century and a key figure in the Christological controversies of his time. His debate with the heretic Nestorius was the impetus for the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD where the Church officially adopted the long held understanding that Mary is Theotokos, “Mother of God.” Because of Saint Cyril’s steadfast defense of orthodoxy, he is called a Pillar of Faith and a Doctor of the Church.

    To some, even today, this argument may seem like bickering over semantics. But St. Cyril saw, keenly, that what we say about Mary is crucial for how we understand her son, Jesus. If Mary were the mother of Jesus’ physical body but somehow not the mother of God, then this would mean Christ was divided into two separate natures, one human and one divine. And while Jesus is both fully divine and fully man, he is not divided. The human and divine natures of Jesus are unified in a single, undivided person. We say this not just because we value technical accuracy but because the truth of this mystery has an incredible impact on how we understand Jesus, his incarnation, ministry, and power to redeem humanity. This is why, in a letter to Nestorius, Saint Cyril writes, “for our sake and for our salvation, he assumed his human nature into the unity of his Person and was born of a woman; this is why it is said that he was born according to the flesh.”(Cyril of Alexandria, Letter II to Nestorius) In other words, our very salvation depends on two natures united into one person, Jesus Christ.

    The Church has always held to the truth of the unity of Christ’s human and divine natures. But Saint Cyril gave an invaluable apology of this truth and expressed it with clarity, shedding light on its implications for how we ought to understand Christ’s mother, the Theotokos, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Cyril understood that if what we say about Christ is true -that from the moment of his incarnation he was fully man and yet remained fully G0d- than Mary ought to be venerated the one who gave flesh to and bore the King of the Universe. So Saint Cyril proclaims boldly that Mary is Theotokos as well as “Virgin-Mother, lightbearer, uncorrupt vessel.” He praises her saying, “Hail, Mary, you are the most precious creature in the whole world; hail, Mary, uncorrupt dove; hail, Mary, inextinguishable lamp; for from you was born the Sun of Justice.” (Gambero, Mary and the Fathers of the Church, p. 243) If Christ was merely a man or was not divine from the moment of incarnation, then Mary would not deserve such praise. The same is true if Christ were divine but not human since Mary’s role would be a strange illusion. But, if we hold to the orthodox belief that Jesus was both fully divine and fully man, then the praise is not only allowable but inevitable

    Despite the rightness of Saint Cyril’s praise for Mary, it’s strange to see such tender words coming from his mouth. Cyril did not hesitate to call Nestorius “wretched” and “blasphemous” and he was often quite stern and severe with other bishops who strayed from an orthodox faith. Yet this disposition softens greatly when he turns his words to the Virgin Mary. In Ephesus, during a homily in which he strongly criticized Nestorius, Cyril joyfully proclaimed of Mary, “But who among men is capable of celebrating Mary most glorious? The virginal womb: such a great wonder! This miracle has me enraptured.” (Cyril of Alexandria, Homily IV at Ephesus preached against Nestorius) In this same homily, Cyril trumpets:

    “Hail, you who held the Uncontainable One in your holy and virginal womb! Through you, the Holy Trinity is glorified; the precious Cross is celebrated and adored throughout the world; heaven exults, the angels and archangels rejoice, the demons are put to flight, the devil, the tempter, falls from heaven, the fallen creation is brought back to paradise, all creatures trapped in idolatry come to know of the truth.”

    Such effusive praise is not mere sentimentality or poetic hyperbole. Saint Cyril, Doctor of the Church, always reasoned and wrote with surgical precision and careful accuracy. And so his devotion to Mary was the result of his understanding of who Christ is and, in turn, what his mother must be. Cyril saw the beauty of this mystery and couldn’t help but be moved. His writing is a testament not just to orthodoxy but also to Mary’s ability to soften even the roughest exteriors. Fortunately for all of us, Saint Cyril’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, theologically sound and orthodox, became official Church doctrine at the Council of Ephesus. Father Luigi Gambero , describing the development of our understanding of Mary in his book Mary and the Fathers of the Church, writes, “Cyril’s preaching and his attitude, redolent with admiration, greatly contributed to the growth of Marian devotion.” (Gambero, p. 239) Because of Saint Cyril’s keen insights and steadfast devotion to the truth, we are able to name Mary “Mother of God” without reservation.

    May Mary soften our hearts just as she did to Saint Cyril of Alexandria.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #800260
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Yes the worship of people has a long history.

    But it annoys God

    Rom 1.25

    #800276
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    You may revere Cyril of Alexandria but history seems to define him not by any works of power and love but by his malignant political behaviours.

    Is that the sort of fruit that should be admired?

    #800284
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Hi KW,

    You offer

    “Being a son of the Spirit trumps being a son of the flesh.

    I merely applied the lesser title to those that reject the greater one.”

    So please explain this too.

    1 Corinthians 3:3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

    other versions like to stick adjectives in the verse that are not in Koine in order to make the meaning more clear.

    1 Corinthians 3:3New English Translation (NET Bible)

    3 for you are still influenced by the flesh. For since there is still jealousy and dissension among you, are you not influenced by the flesh and behaving like unregenerate people?

    #800289
    carmel
    Participant

     

    You may revere Cyril of Alexandria but history seems to define him not by any works of power and love but by his malignant political behaviours.

    Is that the sort of fruit that should be admired?

    Nick,

    IRONICALLY YOU ME AND ALL CHRISTIANS RELY ON PAUL, MORE THEN ON JESUS!!!!

    SINCE HE GAVE US OUR BELIEF!

    WE DO NOT KNOW JESUS AT ALL!

    SO

    DOES THIS ALSO APPLY TO

    SOUL OF TARSUS ?????

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #800290
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    There is no division between Jesus Christ and Paul.

    It is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me.

    #800298
    carmel
    Participant

     

    There is no division between Jesus Christ and Paul.

    It is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me.

    Nick,

    Your statement above is void,

    Considering that my 2000 posts on heavennet are enough EVIDENCE of my belief!

     

    But the fact that Paul history wise was a killer of Christians,

    and Jesus Christ took him AND MADE HIM HIS SERVANT, it is clear enough that,

    NOT JUST HISTORY  IS IRRELEVANT, and has nothing to do with THE WORK OF JESUS CHRIST!

    BUT THE WHOLE WORLD, WHICH HE ALREADY WON!

    So in the same way your argument hereunder is also VOID regarding Cyril of Alexandria!

    You may revere You may revere Cyril of Alexandria but history seems to define him not by any works of power and love but by his malignant political behaviours.

    Is that the sort of fruit that should be admired?

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #800299
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Stay within what is written.

    Nick,

    YOUR SPECIALITY IS ONLY

    BULLYING!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #800303
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Yes we are convinced of your belief in yourself.

    But your relationship to truth is far less certain.

    #800306
    DavidL
    Participant

    Grow up Nick
    and dig your head outta the sand…

    YOU are the one projecting YOUR OWN fabrications onto others…!!

    ..convinced of YOUR OWN belief in yourself
    When indeed it’s really YOUR relationship to truth that is FAR less certain..!!

    Do you have any desire to understand truth..?
    Or just get kicks out of spouting off your own load of religious garbage…!?!

    #800315
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Stop feeling sorry for yourself and stay within what scripture teaches.

Viewing 20 posts - 821 through 840 (of 858 total)
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