Jesus is either one or the other, but not both

This topic has 448 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 7 months, 1 week ago by Proclaimer.

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December 12, 2020 at 5:03 am#868127
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Proclaimer. …..have you ever though that perhaps the word God is not any single person, but a DESCRIPTOR WORD? a word the “only” describes a “Relationship” with anything?
Like this, A GOD= CAN BE ANY THING, WE PUT “OUR TRUST IN” , THINKING, IT HAS “POWER” IN AND OVER, OUR LIVES? , just asking.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
December 12, 2020 at 7:31 am#868133
Danny Dabbs
Participant
@t8
Jesus Christ the Son of God is my Lord and my God!
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:28
I believe my Bible. Thank you. I think it’s time to move on.
God bless you.
December 12, 2020 at 9:31 am#868139
Proclaimer
Participant
God bless you too Danny. I believe the Bible and encourage you to believe too. There are many scriptures that you need to reconcile. I pray that God grants you wisdom to see that the only true God is the God of our Jesus Christ. I hope your eyes and ears are opened and that you learn new things and will encourage others with your new experience.
John 20:17 (English-NIV)
Jesus said, Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
Romans 15:6 (English-NIV)
so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:3 (English-NIV)
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,
2 Corinthians 11:31 (English-NIV)
The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.
Ephesians 1:3 (English-NIV)
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Colossians 1:3 (English-NIV)
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Peter 1:3 (English-NIV)
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Is there a God of the Father? Yet there is a God of our Lord Jesus Christ.
December 12, 2020 at 9:38 am#868140
Proclaimer
Participant
Proclaimer. …..have you ever though that perhaps the word God is not any single person, but a DESCRIPTOR WORD? a word the “only” describes a “Relationship” with anything?
Judging by what I have preached here for the last 20 years, the answer would be yes if you were observant.
There are many gods and lords, but for me, there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
December 12, 2020 at 10:33 am#868143
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Proclaimer, I reconize no GOD but One, but I also can see how to others , they can make other things, like idols of metal or stone or wood, money etc, as well as people their God, as many do with Jesus, but I believe like Jesus said , “there is “ONLY” ONE “TRUE” GOD”, and I also believe there are humans , who are called lords, like (human rulers etc) and the man, Jesus. the Christ.
Our only real difference is you believe he preexisted as somekind of sentinel being, and I believe he came into his “only” existence at his birth on this earth, and he never existed before that , except in the plan and will of God the Father. .
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
December 12, 2020 at 1:11 pm#868150
Proclaimer
Participant
His name is the Word of God.
He is the Word of God.
That you cannot deny.
December 12, 2020 at 3:52 pm#868153
Lightenup
Participant
Proclaimer,
Jehovah is both God and Lord. Is Jehovah your God and Lord?
LU
December 13, 2020 at 4:34 am#868157
GeneBalthrop
Participant
To all……. Here is something that might help all, Go to Youtube, and watch the three part lecture given by the bible scholar professor, Bart Ehrman about when Jesus became a God. He brings out a lot of history surrounding the concepts, as well as how that teaching entered the church.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ……….gene
December 13, 2020 at 9:31 am#868159
Proclaimer
Participant
A God is a Lord by definition when you think about it, but the one true God is the Lord God.
But we are taught that God made Jesus Lord. This means he was appointed.
I see where you are going with this.
You are going to play with these words that often muddle people up and cipher it in such a way that makes both God and Jesus as God.
I would like to remind you that God is a Lord, he is a leader, a spirit, and he is also light.
But Jesus is light too and so are we. Angels are spirits. There are many leaders. But:
For us, there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
You can’t make the argument that at the same time, there is also:
For us, there is one Lord the Father and one God, the God Jesus Christ.
We cannot take a word like Lord and then make every mention of it stick to one being.
You can’t even do that with God as there is also the god of this age and idols.
Binitarians and Trinitarians confuse usage of these words to draw their false conclusions.
December 13, 2020 at 10:45 am#868160
Lightenup
Participant
Proclaimer,
This is not a game for me, I’m not playing a game. This is very important and serious as to what Paul and Moses are saying. There is one God and one Lord. Two persons. YHWH is both God and Lord, two persons, both eternal in essense.
The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH. YHWH is two persons who are one, not one person only. For us…Paul says there are two persons who are one, not just one person.
Gnaw on that for a while, LU
December 13, 2020 at 11:32 am#868161
Proclaimer
Participant
For US, there is one God who is the Father. And one Lord who was appointed Lord by none other than God.
If you are not US, then what group are you representing?
December 14, 2020 at 4:46 am#868167
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Lu……Proclaimer is right scriptures clearly say there is “Only” one God, and “one” mediator between God and men “THE MAN” Jesus the Christ or anointed one.
You use the word “essence” as MEANING somekind of “mysterious” , proof Jesus is A GOD. While at the Sametime denying all the many scriptures that show that cannot be true. Even denying God the Fathers own Words he himself clearly said, over and over, things like , “I am God, and there is no other God” ,” I kill and I make alive”, ‘I looked for another God and found none” on and on it goes through both the old and new Testements. AND YOU THINK A WORD LIKE “ESSENCE” changes all that?
Scriptures are apsolutely clear as well as our brother the man Jesus who said himself, ““clearly”, “THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE , that they might know “YOU” (not me), the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD ….,and Jesus who you have sent”. It is obvious you as others do not apply nor believe what Jesus himself “clearly said” LU. You letting false teachers take president over what your scriptures “clearly say” .
Jesus is a HIGHLY exhulted human being , and a true messenger sent to us From GOD THE FATHER, but so was MOSES and the other Prophets , they all were sent and used by our one and only “true” God, as his personal representatives, to carry out a work for him. There is no denying of that fact here, but to change any of them into a God, is breaking the commandment of GOD himself. A very bad sin LU. “you shall have no other GOD beside Me” , you shall make no “image” of me in heaven above or earth beneath.” Dosen’t, the words from our of God and Fathers mouth even mean anything to you, are you so brave, to think you can challenge him, and get away with it.
Forget those people who have feed you those “LIES” for so long, As they have many, many, many, others , shed those lies and Jesus and the Father will recieve you, May our “only” true God and heavenly Father help you to repent LU.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

December 14, 2020 at 6:42 am#868170
Danny Dabbs
Participant
@t8
t8 Man you keep bringing me back.
You said:
“Lionel Messi is the greatest footballer of all time. Okay that is an opinion even though he has the stats, but let’s run with it regardless. Neymar is also a great footballer, He is not the greatest. He may become the greatest, some would argue that he is the greatest right now, but right now he is not the greatest of all time.
So your argument would be that Messi is a human and Neymar is a human, so they are both the greatest.”
No, absolutely not.
My argument is that even if Messi is the greatest footballer that would make him not superior in being!
That’s my argument!
Let’s try another analogy:
I am “greater” than my son in that I have authority over him and am responsible for him. But as humans, we are equal. I am not more human than he; neither is he more human than me.
The same applies to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
Only Jesus shares the essence of His Father.
We will never. That’s heresy. Otherwise we will be equal to God.
2 Peter 1:4…The Geneva Study Bible commentary says:
By the divine nature he means not the substance of the Godhead, but the partaking of those qualities, by which the image of God is restored in us.
December 14, 2020 at 7:32 am#868175
Berean
Participant
WE fond in the Bible(KING JAMES)
505 times the Expression “THE LORD GOD”
SO God IS LORD AND GOD
YAHWEH ELOHIM THE FATHER IN PERSONALITY
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD IS LORD AND IS ONE WITH THE FATHER
IN SPIRIT (nature, substance )
IN HEART (MIND)
IN PURPOSES
But not in PERSON
They are TWO distinct divine persons.
THE SON IN OUR FAVOR
TAKEN OUR HUMANITY UPON HIS DIVINE NATURE, HE PARTICIPATED IN OUR BLOOD AND OUR HUMAN FLESH
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succeed them that are tempted.
AMEN

December 14, 2020 at 7:47 am#868176
Danny Dabbs
Participant
“They are TWO distinct divine persons.”
Yes, they are.
…our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3
December 14, 2020 at 8:15 am#868177
Ed J
Participant
“They are TWO distinct divine persons.”
Yes, they are.
…our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3
Hi Guys,
It’s nice when we agree
____________
God bless
Ed J
December 14, 2020 at 8:28 am#868178
Danny Dabbs
Participant
Yes, it is.
December 14, 2020 at 10:09 am#868180
Proclaimer
Participant
No, absolutely not.
My argument is that even if Messi is the greatest footballer that would make him not superior in being!
That’s my argument!
That is the point I’m making. If we understand the difference between nature and identity then the misunderstanding goes away.
Messi is not the best because of his nature. After all, he shares that nature with every other footballer on the planet. Football is played in your mind anyway. Your body does what your mind tells it to do.
So, the Most High is not the highest because he has divine nature. His nature is not HIMSELF.
He is the Most High because he is before everyone else being the Father. All knowing etc.
The King of Israel was a man right? But was not equal in authority to any other man because of nature. He had higher position despite having the exact same nature.
The argument that Jesus is God because of his nature is flawed. The Binity and Trinity are doctrines that argue that nature can make you God. They are useless doctrines that cause confusion.
God is not defined by all that have or participate in divine nature just the same as God is not defined as God because he is a spirit as there are many spirits that were born of him.
December 14, 2020 at 10:15 am#868181
Proclaimer
Participant
LU and others. Do you say ‘yes yes’, ‘yes no’, or what.
Are both statements true?
1. For us, there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
2. For us, there is one Lord the Father and one God, the God Jesus Christ.
I say, ‘yes no’. What about you.
December 14, 2020 at 12:36 pm#868183
carmel
Participant
HI, Gene,
YOU: You use the word “essence” as MEANING somekind of “mysterious” , proof Jesus is A GOD. While at the Sametime denying all the many scriptures that show that cannot be true.
Even denying God the Fathers own Words he himself clearly said, over and over, things like , “I am God, and there is no other God” ,” I kill and I make alive”,
‘I looked for another God and found none”
on and on it goes through both
the old and
new Testements.
AND YOU THINK A WORD LIKE “ESSENCE” changes all that?
ME: PURE LIES
THE OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 45:14 Thus saith the Lord: The labour of Egypt, and the merchandise of Ethiopia, and of Sabaim, men of stature
shall come over to thee, and shall be thine:
they shall walk after thee,
they shall go bound with manacles:
and they shall worship thee,
and shall make supplication to thee:
only in thee is God,
and there is no God besides thee.
15Verily thou art
a hidden God,
the God of Israel the SAVIOUR.(JESUS CHRIST)
16They are all confounded and ashamed: the forgers of errors are gone together into confusion.
16 ABOVE IS FOR YOU Gene!!!
THE NEW TESTAMENT:
Hebrews:1:8 But to the Son:
Thy throne, O God,(1)
is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity:
therefore God,(1)
thy God,(1)
hath anointed thee…. (PERFECT PRESENT TENSE, AN ACTION COMMENCED IN THE PAST AND CARRIED ONTO THE PRESENT, JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE
ONE ESSENCE WITH THE FATHER!!!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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A dichotomy

Jesus is either the Son of God or is God.

If he is both, then he must be the Son of himself.

new Testements.

ME: PURE LIES

THE OLD TESTAMENT

and they shall worship thee,

only in thee is God,

and there is no God besides thee.

15Verily thou art

a hidden God,

the God of Israel the SAVIOUR.(JESUS CHRIST)

THE NEW TESTAMENT:

Thy throne, O God,(1)

therefore God,(1)

thy God,(1)

ONE ESSENCE WITH THE FATHER!!!

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Jesus is either one or the other, but not both

A dichotomy

Jesus is either the Son of God or is God.

If he is both, then he must be the Son of himself.

new Testements.

ME: PURE LIES

THE OLD TESTAMENT

and they shall worship thee,

only in thee is God,

and there is no God besides thee.

15Verily thou art

a hidden God,

the God of Israel the SAVIOUR.(JESUS CHRIST)

THE NEW TESTAMENT:

Thy throne, O God,(1)

therefore God,(1)

thy God,(1)

ONE ESSENCE WITH THE FATHER!!!

Recent Replies

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