Eternal Life after death or Eternal death after life?

This topic has 732 replies, 38 voices, and was last updated 2 months ago by GeneBalthrop.

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September 15, 2018 at 7:16 am#834267
Alan Finch
Participant
My name is Alan Finch. I became a Christian 42 years ago. I am adding an additional comment to my previous comment from yesterday.
It is important to understand that the Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire. The Biblical phrase “Lake of Fire” is symbolic for a Spiritual Lake of Fire which is representative of the FIRE of God’s Spirit that is going to do a transforming work of “Divine Purification” in each individual that comes before the Great White Throne Judgment. This transforming work from God’s Spirit will give these individuals a full understanding of God’s Boundless Love for them and the entire human race. (Note: The Scriptures do not reveal how long that this process will take)
I have written a 26 page article that Biblically deals with this subject extensively. If anyone would like a copy, feel free to e-mail me and ask for a copy, and I will e-mail you a copy.
[email protected]
September 16, 2018 at 12:14 am#834273
Ed J
Participant
I have written an article upon this topic, but it is much too lengthy to post on this site (26 pages). Below is an introduction. If anyone would like a copy in it’s original Word Document Format, feel free to e-mail me and request a copy and I will e-mail you a copy.
[email protected]
Hi Alan Finch,
Welcome to Heaven Net.
If your book is in PDF
I’ll take a copy of it.
I’ll e-mail you.
____________
God bless
Ed J
September 20, 2018 at 12:53 am#834330
Proclaimer
Participant
Eternal judgement is one of the elementary teachings. Wiggle room or not, if it says the wicked shall perish and the unrepentant to destruction, then we need to understand what this means. Perish and destruction in any other topic is not doubted, but when it comes to the wicked and centuries of Catholic doctrine of men being burned in flames alive for all eternity, then suddenly, all consistency is thrown out.
September 20, 2018 at 2:53 am#834333
GeneBalthrop
Participant
T8….did not Jesus say ” if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your childern”…., he was talking to his deciples right?, now sense he calls them evil, will they also parish? Have you ever thought that perhaps it is the evil itself, that will parish, not the person? Has not God concluded all in unbelife that he might have mercy on all.
The word hell fire can be taken as “intense judgement”, not necessarily a physical fire. But even spiritually taken it can destory the evil that is in a person and purify him. Remember wher it say “if a man build with wood, hay, and stubble, his works shall be burned up, but him saved , yet by fire”.
Also if the foot prevent you cut it off, better you enter into the kingdom mained, then to have two feet and be cast int the fire, where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched. But if the worm does die then the fire will be put out, and that person will be purified yet as by fire. We are all recieving firey trials even now. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
September 20, 2018 at 7:53 am#834336
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Gene,
Again you develop new teachings of your own to offer instead of scripture.
You are your own god it seems.
September 20, 2018 at 1:10 pm#834340
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Nick….Everything i mentioned is in scriptures, had you truly known scriptures you would understand that. It’s not my fault you are unable to precieve these things Nick, but if you like please tell me which things i mentioned are not in scriptute and i will try to help you see what i was saying brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
September 20, 2018 at 1:40 pm#834342
Proclaimer
Participant
T8….did not Jesus say ” if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your childern”…., he was talking to his deciples right?, now sense he calls them evil, will they also parish? Have you ever thought that perhaps it is the evil itself, that will parish, not the person? Has not God concluded all in unbelife that he might have mercy on all.
It is common knowledge among those that study the Bible that humanity is sinful and death is the price we pay. Yes we are evil by nature, but God made a way for us to clothe yourselves in righteousness. This is a gift to us and is not because of our own effort. We need to accept this gift of salvation by repenting of our evil ways and turning to God.
So while the flesh will perish, our souls are preserved and given a new house, a building made by God.
September 21, 2018 at 1:20 am#834344
GeneBalthrop
Participant
T8….God said the ‘soul’ that sinneth “it” shall die, but we look for the resurection which will wittiness the redemption of our “bodies”. Accrding to the apostle Paul. Jesus never sinned he stillis alive in his original body he was born with. It was not possible for him to lose anything because he never sinned he is in the same body he was born with. “For God did not suffer his soul to see coruption in the grave”. He is alive forever in his original flesh and bone body.
But none of this has to do with a eternal hell, right?.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
September 28, 2018 at 9:21 am#834432
Proclaimer
Participant
T8….God said the ‘soul’ that sinneth “it” shall die, but we look for the resurection which will wittiness the redemption of our “bodies”.
Yes, first the physical then the spiritual.
Yes or No please Gene.
Does God save our souls?
November 17, 2018 at 7:02 am#835570
Anthony
Participant
Hi
Eternal means age, ages have a end. God bless.
November 17, 2018 at 4:11 pm#835576
Proclaimer
Participant
Yes or No please Gene.
Can God save our souls?
November 17, 2018 at 5:19 pm#835577
Jodi
Participant
Hi t8,
YOU: It is common knowledge among those that study the Bible that humanity is sinful and death is the price we pay. Yes we are evil by nature, but God made a way for us to clothe yourselves in righteousness. This is a gift to us and is not because of our own effort. We need to accept this gift of salvation by repenting of our evil ways and turning to God.
So while the flesh will perish, our souls are preserved and given a new house, a building made by God.
ME: t8 your comment I find contradictory.
NOT because of our own effort, “WE NEED” to accept the gift of salvation by repentance.
REPENTANCE ALSO comes NOT through ourselves but through God calling us, God’s Spirit working in us to BRING us into repentance. Without God’s Spirit working in us, we are like animals, beasts. t8, an ignorant beast does not know God, but God gave humans a brain unlike other animals that is capable of learning from God through His Spirit teaching us.
God CALLS, God GIVES mercy, He places His Spirit upon us creatures so we are not left to be just an ignorant beast.
We need to separate the difference between the first death where sinners are destroyed and perish verses the second death.
Judgement
What is the point to raise people from the dead to then destroy them again? What is more righteous by the LORD, what is more scriptural? That God will be ALL IN ALL, where people are judged and come to the massive TORMENT that guilt brings, of which is where REPENTANCE occurs? Did not Paul profess that he was a wretched man? Or does God just wants to raise people from the dead to kill them again? What is destroyed? Is it not SIN and DEATH, is not death swallowed up into VICTORY? If death is swallowed up into victory, then SIN is destroyed. Is it the sinner that is destroyed or is it the sin IN man that is destroyed?
What brings one man INTO repentance brings ALL men into repentance, of which is the work of God’s Spirit, otherwise one is delusional in his own vanity. The MERCY of God is giving instruction through His Spirit to an ignorant beast. THERE is AN ORDER, God has foreordained that order. This order served a purpose so we could SEE that it is IN FACT GOD that brings us to repentance and not ourselves, which you t8 seem to be confused about and it leads to a path that dispalys self-righteousness.
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
t8 you are NOT repentant through your own self, God brought you to your repentance.
After the second resurrection God is not willing that any should perish, He is only interested in making sin perish. What God declares, what God DESIRES is irrevocable, and He desires ALL MEN to come into repentance. God declares that He will be ALL in ALL.
What is JUSTICE for a sinful human?…to rise from the dead and fear death for a second time and die again?…or…come to the realization of your own sins and feel the massive torment that comes with SHAME and self loathing?
t8 it is NOT what God desires and then we are left to choose an offering, you apparently have no clue what GRACE means.
That which God DESIRES is the SAME as His WORD which is irrevocable. This does not make us puppets by any means, it makes us creatures that were created to be instructed by God, made to exist in His image, and the POWER of His Spirit with His knowledge causes us to OVERCOME our IGNORANT CARNAL minds.
November 17, 2018 at 11:16 pm#835579
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Jodi,
God is not IN the lost.
But He is close to all men.Acts 17
November 17, 2018 at 11:17 pm#835580
Proclaimer
Participant
For a man to have no life or awareness would require the spirit of God to return to God and for the soul to die as a result.
The second death is like that, the first is not like that. The first death is separation from the body, not “annihilation.
Thus your comment alluding to being annihilated and brought back to life is not what I teach at all.
November 18, 2018 at 4:38 am#835583
GeneBalthrop
Participant
T8, YES HE CAN,…… When a man dies this is what happens, his living soul “parishes”, his spirit returns to him that gave it, he is no longer a living soul, UNTILL HE OR SHE IS RESURECTED, then given a new body and spirit of life put back into it, and we becomes a living soul again, but in the second resurection the body is rejoined with the Spirit, and he becomes a living soul again also, and God, not willing that any parish, judges them and gives them a repentence heart and they repent and are saved, We are saved by “GRACE” IT IS A “GIFT” FROM GOD, NOT FROM OURSELVES NOT FROM OUR WORKS, LEST WE “BOAST” . Now if God the Father took mercy on us and saved us, by his efectual working power, what makes you think he won’t have mercy on those in the second resurection?
Those who are chosen are going through their judgement now, for judgement must begin at the house of God. Remember, “the fiery trial which has tried, you as if some strange thing has happened to you”.
Jodi is correct T8 .
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
November 18, 2018 at 11:35 am#835591
Proclaimer
Participant
The fact that the graves were opened in Jesus resurrection doesn’t fit with your theory though.
When we die, we immediately enter the presence of the Lord. At some future time, we will be given new bodies, similar to the body Jesus had after His resurrection. Until then, our souls are with the Lord, even under the altar of God.
This was a hope expressed by Paul himself:
“We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”
He also said:
“I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far”.
I think Paul was correct Gene, so if I had to choose between his teaching and yours, then I align with Paul.
January 30, 2019 at 12:07 pm#843145
Anthony
Participant
Hi All
I’ve been holding back, I know that most Christian don’t believe in Unaversal salvation. But I do. I can’t see how a person can read the Bible and not see it. Scriptures that may help.
Here are several Scriptures that give us God’s Master Plan in just one sentence. It’s time we grow up and search the Scriptures for ourselves and stop putting our faith in men. Here are some profound Scriptures which the Church contends will never, ever be accomplished by God:
1. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD“ (I John 4:14)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will save “the world”? NO!
2. “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS; of whom I am chief“ [Gk: foremost–paramount, preeminent]” (I Tim. 1:15)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will save all “sinners?” NO!
3. “For the Son of man is come to seek and to SAVE that which was LOST [that’s everyone]“ (Luke 19:10)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will save all who are “lost?” NO!
4. “The next day John sees Jesus coming unto Him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world“ (John 1:29). I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will take away the “sin of the world?” NO!
5. And He is the propitiation [to atone for, conciliate, look upon with mercy and favor] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD“ (I John 2:2)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will atone for the “sins of the world–the WHOLE world?” NO it!
6. “God our Saviour Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth” (I Tim. 2:3-4). I teach this, but does the Church teach that God will have “ALL men to be saved?” NO!
7. “The Lord is… not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9). I teach this, but does the Church teach that the Lord is not willing that any perish, but that ALL should repent, therefore, none will perish and all will repent? NO!
8. “For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who IS the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially [‘specially’ does not mean ‘exclusively’ or ‘only’] of those that believe“ (I Tim. 4:10). I teach this, but does the Church teach that God is not only the Saviour of those that believe, but ultimately “God is the Saviour of ALL men?” NO!
9. “…I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE the world“ (John 12:47). I teach this, but does the Church teach Jesus will actually accomplish what He came to accomplish “to SAVE THE WORLD?”NO!
10. “…we have heard Him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD“ (John 4:42). I teach this, but does the Church teach that the One to Whom they give lip service “is indeed the Christ, THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD?” NO, it does NOT!
How many … how MANY Scriptures must you read and see in your own Bible before you will believe that God commissioned His Son to be the Saviour of the world and that Jesus WILL SAVE THE WORLD?
These ten Scriptures are not wrongly translated, however, every single Bible verse which uses the word “hell” along with “forever and ever,” “everlasting,” “evermore,” and “eternal,” is wrongly translated, and this is relatively easy to study and prove to one’s own satisfaction.
Virtually all clergyman in all Christendom teach:
- Jesus will NOT “be the Saviour of the world,” but rather Saviour of only a few
- Jesus will NOT “save [all] sinners,” but only a few
- Jesus will NOT “save [all] that which was lost,” but only a few that are lost
- Jesus will NOT “take away the sin of the world,”but only of a few
- Jesus will NOT “have all men to be saved,” but only a few men
- Jesus will NOT be that “Lord [which is] “not willing that any should perish,” but He WILL be that Lord which will actively participate in eternally torturing those who have perished
- Jesus is NOT “the Saviour of all men,” but is the Saviour “of those that believe,” only
- Jesus’ Own words “I came NOT to judge the world, but to save the world” will never happen
- Jesus is NOT “indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
And just why is it that the Church will not teach these astonishing declarations of God, that the whole world will be saved that all mankind will be saved? Is it because they have never read those ten Scriptures or the dozens and dozens like them? No. Well why then? Are you ready for this? The reason is that they don’t want the whole world (all mankind) to be saved: they don’t approve of God’s plan for the salvation of all mankind. They want to be special, and they don’t want their enemies to be saved unless they come under the control and authority of the Church.
WHO WILL BELIEVE OUR REPORT (ISAIAH 53:1)?
God bless 🙏 Anthony
January 30, 2019 at 12:10 pm#843146
Proclaimer
Participant
If people reject God, are you saying he forces them to live with him for all eternity?
January 30, 2019 at 2:05 pm#843147
Anthony
Participant
Hi T8
You said: If people reject God, are you saying he forces them to live with him for all eternity?
Me: well I didn’t say God forces anyone, He saves them the same way He saves us. He convicted us of our sins, and brings us to the place of repentance. You might say He’s a consuming fire, He consumes the dross the wood, hay and stable in our life. This fire is symbolic not Literal the whole of Revalation is symbolic, have you ever seen a fire in a Lake, let me know if you have k. See Christian was brought up to believe this way. To believe it’s Literal and not Symbolic which it is. It changes how you see a lot of things. Jesus Christ tells us to love our enemies but He can’t love a sinner, doesn’t He go out for the last sheep.
What about Abraham , when God show Him the stars in the sky and the sand on the sea shore, that many that’s a whole lot . I started conting the stars one night I got tired, had to stop. I went out the next night I look up and it seem like there were moreany even didn’t start to count them. But anyways T8 you must of study the words involved, like hell hades she’ll Gehenna the second death the lake of fire punishment eternal for ever .and ever Ect. Ect.. and you must realize history of how the early church believed most not all believed in Unaversal salvation. I try to stay away from pushing it on people.
You must see how some stuff just don’t add up about this subject, and why a literal scene doesn’t do it leave alot of questions un- answered. When you look at it symbolic, the fire becomes a refining fire, or refines the sin in a person nor the person. God loves the sinners hates the sin. He goes out for the very last person. TC love your enemies as your self God does.
I hope and pray that 🙏 helped.
God bless

January 30, 2019 at 10:36 pm#843150
Anthony
Participant
Hi All
Scripture use of the words “death” and “destruction.”The opinion of the annihilation of the wicked, which has at different times been held by some, as a refuge from the doctrine of never-ending punishment, is not only opposed to the whole analogy of our regeneration, which shews how death and judgment are the only way of life and deliverance for a fallen creature, but also so directly contradicts what is said of “death” in Scripture, that it is difficult to conceive how it could ever have been accepted by believers. Even before the reason of the Cross is seen, the very letter of Scripture, one might have thought, would have kept men from concluding that the “death,” “destruction,” and “perishing,” of the wicked means their non-existence or annihilation. For what is “death”? What is “destruction”? How are these words invariably used in Holy Scripture?
First, as to “death,” are any of the varied deaths, which Scripture speaks of as incident to man, his non-existence or annihilation? Take as examples the deaths referred to by St. Paul, in the sixth, seventh, and eighth chapters of the Epistle to the Romans. We read, (Rom. 6:7,) “He that is dead is freed from sin.” Is this “death,” which is freedom from sin, non-existence or annihilation? Again, where the Apostle says, (Rom. 7:9,) “I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died,”—was this “death,” wrought in him by the law, annihilation? Again, where he says, (Rom. 8:6,) “To be carnally minded is death,” is this death non-existence or annihilation? And again, when he says, (Rom. 8:38,) “Neither death nor life shall separate us,” is the “death” here referred to annihilation? When Adam died on the day he sinned, (Gen. 2:17,) was this annihilation? When his body died, and turned to dust, (Gen. 5:5,) was this annihilation? Is our “death in trespasses and sins,” (Eph. 2:1-2,) annihilation? Is our “death to sin,” (Rom. 6:11,) annihilation? When the “corn of wheat falls into the ground and dies,” (John 12:24,) is it annihilated; or is St. Paul right in saying, (1 Cor. 15:37,) “That which thou sowest is not quickened except it die?” Do not these and similar uses of the word prove beyond all question, that whatever else these deaths may be, not one of them is non-existence or annihilation?
God bless
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