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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • March 25, 2020 at 2:58 pm#850875
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    I have wrestled with those passages as you have and I have an example in nature that helps me understand, I found an example in nature of how the Father and the Son can both be the same eternal age. Are you ready for that discussion?

    March 25, 2020 at 3:01 pm#850876
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: Hi Jodi

    The subject is: WHO IS “THE WORD”?
    Yes  or  no  ?
    THE BIBLE SAYS THAT “THE WORD” IS CHRIST HIMSELF. (JOHN 1; REVELATION 19)

    That was a good post, B.  What say you, Jodi?  Does the Bible say equate “the Word” with “Jesus”?

     

    March 25, 2020 at 3:04 pm#850877
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Lightenup:  Together they created as one creator Jehovah God. They did not act separately, they acted interdependently, united in their Holy Spirit as one spirit.

    Can one creator have two different wills?

     

    March 25, 2020 at 3:10 pm#850878
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Lightenup:  Mike,

    I have wrestled with those passages as you have and I have an example in nature that helps me understand, I found an example in nature of how the Father and the Son can both be the same eternal age. Are you ready for that discussion?

    Probably not! 😁  Just kidding… lay it on me, sister.  Just know that I’ve been working a lot, so if you (or anyone else) doesn’t see a prompt answer, I will get to it by the weekend.

    March 25, 2020 at 3:22 pm#850879
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Haha, ok Mike. The example in nature is actually the simplest created organism with reproductive potential…a single cell, the first single cell of it’s kind at the time of creation. When that cell goes through the asexual reproductive process, it ends up with two identical cells with the same essence and the same aged essence in both. The only difference is one cell is the begetter cell, the other is the begotten cell. Thus there is a father and son, identical in age and essence but distinct in relationship.

    Simple as that.

    March 25, 2020 at 9:08 pm#850884
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Lightenup

     

    You

    “The example in nature is actually the simplest created organism with reproductive potential…a single cell, the first single cell of it’s kind at the time of creation. When that cell goes through the asexual reproductive process, it ends up with two identical cells with the same essence and the same aged essence in both. The only difference is one cell is the begetter cell, the other is the begotten cell. Thus there is a father and son, identical in age and essence but distinct in relationship.

    Simple as that.”

     

    This is the Holy Spirit !!!!

     

    I also thought that thing
    concerning the Father and the begotten Son.
    The Son is truly of the same glorious and eternal substance as the Father.
    They are, however, two distinct persons with their own personalities: One in Spirit, one in heart, one in purpose.

     

    God bless

    March 26, 2020 at 2:32 am#850890
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Berean: In the meantime, you hide the fact that Christ is the creative agent of the Father and that through Him all things were created.

    I guess “creative agent” works for me, although none of us actually know for sure what it means that God created all things through Jesus. But we do indeed know that God created all things through Jesus, right? Jodi? Ed? Gene? We do know that, right?

    Quit trying to change what Scripture says to fit your beliefs!

    Only by his crucifixion Mike. You want to change Rev. 13:8
    and discount Isaiah 44:24. This approach is inadvisable Mike.

    “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    If any man have an ear, let him hear.” (Rev 13:8-9)

    Jesus did not create nor help create in any way ..

    24 “I the LORD that maketh all things;
    that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
    that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars” (Isaiah 44:24-25)

    March 26, 2020 at 4:00 am#850892
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj…..no we don’t believe that Go created all things “through” Jesus,  because for one Jesus did not exist till he was born on this earth. We have already produced scriptures that say the “God and alone and by himself ” created everything that exists.  Isa 44:24

    The problem is in the word “through” in the Greek that word can be use in many different way.  The overall meaning of the word “dia”  in Greek denotes a “causal” channel of an act; has a very wide applications like,  “because of” like for the reason of, for sake of,  but never seems to imply it was done by the “casual”  person himself. 

    Edj…..and all, you need to really understand the actual meaning of  the word “dia” in the Greek language.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    March 26, 2020 at 6:22 am#850893
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    you asked:

    Can one creator have two different wills?

    Yes when the two are perfectly united.

    March 26, 2020 at 6:25 am#850894
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Berean,
    you said:

    I also thought that thing
    concerning the Father and the begotten Son.
    The Son is truly of the same glorious and eternal substance as the Father.
    They are, however, two distinct persons with their own personalities: One in Spirit, one in heart, one in purpose.

    Amen! So refreshing when people get this!!

    Blessings, LU

    March 26, 2020 at 6:55 am#850895
    Lightenup
    Participant

    To all,
    When you get stuck with the fact that the Bible said all things were made by God alone and also it says that God made all things through the Son, it really is as simple as recognizing that Jehovah God is both the God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son) two persons. God in the fullest sense is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Two persons united in one Spirit.

    Therefore,
    God alone made all things, true
    Jehovah God who is God of gods and Lord of lords made all things, true
    The Father and the Son and Spirit, alone made all things. true

    All of the above are true, just said differently.
    As simple as that!

    Blessings, LU

    March 26, 2020 at 7:17 am#850896
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Mike

    you:

    Berean: JESUS IS NOT THE ALMIGHTY GOD (FATHER)

    BUT HE HAS THE DIVINE NATURE OF HIS
    FATHER…

    THE WORD: “god” is also applied for thé “angels”

    Psalms 8:5
    For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels(elohiym), and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
    You and I are not too far off.  Most erroneously claim that the Hebrew culture and the Bible are “strictly monotheistic”.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The entire Bible is chock full of all kinds of different gods…  Molech, Yahweh, Dagon, Michael, Ashteroth, Gabriel, Baal, Satan… and many more.  After all, Yahweh couldn’t be the MOST HIGH God if there weren’t less high gods.  He couldn’t be the God OF gods if there weren’t other gods that he was the God OF.

    So since you agree that Jesus isn’t the Almighty God… is it possible that Jesus is also one of those less high gods that the Father is the God OF?

    (I have no argument for Jesus having divine nature, since I agree with that.)

     

    is it possible that Jesus is also one of those less high gods that the Father is the God OF?

    (I have no argument for Jesus having divine nature, since I agree with that.)

     

    Arguments from the Bible FOR Jesus having divine nature

    Hebrews 1

    [1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,by whom also he made the worlds;[3] Who being the brightness of his glory(of God), and the express image of his person(of God), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Colossians 2

    [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    [9] For in him*JESUS CHRIST* dwelleth ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily.

    PAUL SAY THAT CHRIST IS BEFORE ALL THINGS/AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST

    COL.1[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    CONSIST:

    4921
    sunistaw
    sunistao
    soon-is-tah’-o,
    sunistano soon-is-tan’-o, or sunistemi soon-is’-tay-mee from sun – sun 4862 and isthmi – histemi 2476 (including its collateral forms); to set together, i.e. (by implication) to introduce (favorably), or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively, to stand near, or (figuratively) to constitute:–approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with).

     

    JESUS BEING BEFORE ALL THINGS

    HE CAN’T HAVE ORIGINALLY BEEN A CREATURE OF GOD.
    AT THE TIME GOD FORMED HIM A BODY IN THE BOSOM OF MARIE.

     

    THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD  AND THE WORD WAS GOD

    GOD BLESS

     

     

     

     

    March 26, 2020 at 7:31 am#850897
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    Passages that Gene and I speak of are passed over time and time again and are NOT APPLIED, they are disregarded. You are far from the truth when you refuse to apply scripture with scripture.

    The first chapter in John can be fully understood CORRECTLY through applying an abundance of other passages with it. 

    I am going to start with the END of the chapter,

    John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    JESUS IS the Son of Jehovah as the fulfillment of JEHOVAH’S WORD spoken to the prophet Nathan. Jehovah BECOMES a Father to David’s son and promises to give him an eternal throne, making him a king over Israel. Jehovah promised that He would not take His mercy (goodness) away from the son of David, a Son of Man who has Jehovah’s angels ascending and descending upon him, a son of David who would be settled in Jehovah’s house forever.

    March 26, 2020 at 8:00 am#850898
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    This should help you understand what is said in 1 Chronicles:

    https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/2_samuel/7.htm

    March 26, 2020 at 8:50 am#850899
    Jodi
    Participant

    Continued,

    Understanding John chapter 1 in truth,

    One must apply these passages, 

    Isaiah 44: 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth by MYSELF; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his SERVANT, and performeth the counsel of his MESSENGERS; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

    Isaiah 45: 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the MAN that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    What the LORD spoke from the beginning was of a MAN who would execute Jehovah’s purpose which He also DECLARED from the beginning, SALVATION. Eternal life was even of the LORD’S pleasure before the world began. (Titus 1:2)

    Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    WHO IS God’s servant, his messenger, his ELECT? Where is he elected out from?

    Deut 18: 15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

    Luke 22:19 And he said unto them,What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

    Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

    John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

    Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    Romans 15: 8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. 12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

    Acts 13: 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

    Continuing Isaiah 42,

    2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    READ AGAIN,

    Isaiah 45: 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    AND DON’T FORGET,

    Isaiah 44: 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth by MYSELF; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

    In the beginning was the LORD’s WORD OF a MAN who would execute that which the LORD declared from the beginning, that which was His determined purpose for making the world in the first place, which was salvation, bringing forth eternal life.

    The LORD’s WORD declared from the beginning was of a MAN to come who would be for a LIGHT bringing forth righteousness and life. Out of Jesse and David would rise up a savior who would fulfill all things of the LORD’S WORD that He had declared from the beginning. From among brethren a prophet rose up to declaring the LORD’S WORD and fulfill the LORD’S WORD and be given dominion over the WORD that is fulfilled.  

    When the LORD by himself, all alone, stretched forth the heavens and spreadeth abroad the earth He created it by reason of and for him who would fulfill all those things that the LORD had declared before the world was.

    Jesus was elected from among his brethren, where the Spirit descended upon him and he was SENT to fulfill all things that the LORD had declared, purposed, were of His pleasures, before the world was. All things consist in this man BECAUSE the LORD elected him to fulfill the END, to fulfill the LORD’S promises, to fulfill eternal life that the LORD had declared before the world was.

     

    March 26, 2020 at 9:59 am#850901
    Berean
    Participant

    John.1
    [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    [2] The same was in the beginning with God.
    [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    THIS 3 verses are in the COLNTEXT of THE BIGINNING, OUR BIGINNING , THE BIGINNING OF OUR EARTH

    WE ARE BEFORE THE TIME WERE JESUS BIGINS HIS MINISTER IN THE FLESH

    GOD BLESS

     

     

     

    March 26, 2020 at 10:08 am#850902
    Berean
    Participant

    JODI

    STOP TWISTING GOD’S WORD TO TRY TO PROVE THAT JESUS ISN’T
    GOD.

    March 26, 2020 at 10:57 am#850905
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Lightenup,

    YOU: They are, however, two distinct persons with their own personalities: One in Spirit, one in heart, one in purpose.

    ME: The Father and the Son though they are distinct, they are

    INSEPARABLE.

    The Son is eternally in the Father and the Father eternally in the Son. Also as much as within the Father there is the Holy Ghost, equivalently within the Son, there is also the Holy Ghost, since the Father and the Son are equal in every sense. This is depicted in

    John2o:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them:

    Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 

    Now despite they received the Holy Ghost glorified one substance with “THE WORD” the Son of Man, in

    A UNIQUE SPIRITUAL/FLESH BODY in JESUS CHRIST,

    GODMAN ON EARTH, They still had to wait till they receive the Holy Spirit from the Father.

    GLORIFIED and EMPOWERED IN JESUS’ UNIQUE POWER.

    In order for the Father to SAVE ALL by the Holy Spirit in/with JESUS’ POWER through THE WOMAN Mary, as much as Satan condemned all through the woman Eve.

    Well mentioned by Jesus in

    John 16:8 And when he is come, he will convince the world of sin and of justice and of judgment.

    12 I have yet many things to say to you: but

    YOU CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,

    HE WILL TEACH YOU THE TRUTH.

    For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.

    14 HE SHALL GLORIFY ME: because ( HE SIMPLY PERFORM ALL ONLY IN THE NAME OF JESUS)

    HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE and shall shew it to you. ( POWER, WISDOM, and REVELATION)

    15All things whatsoever the Father hath (REGARDING JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE) are mine. Therefore I said that

    HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE and shall shew it to you.

     

    For the sake of creation it was the task of the Son to empty Himself from His divine spirit, and became slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world.Rev.13:8. HE OFFERED HIMSELF FOR THE LOVE OF THE FATHER AND THE HUMAN RACE. By which spirit he enriched the entire human race.

    HE BECAME POOR SO WE BECOME RICH.

    I WONDER IF JODI EVER PRODUCED THIS SCRIPTURE  HEREUNDER:

    2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    that being rich ( IN HIS DIVINITY)

    he became poor (IN HIS HUMANITY) for your sakes:

    that through his poverty you might be rich. ( BECOME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH HIM IN HIS DIVINITY on his resurrection) Mentioned by 

    1Peter1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead: 4Unto an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled and that cannot fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time. 

    as HE IS IN FULL GLORY ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.

    1John 3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God: and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know that when he shall appear we shall

    be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

    John 17:20

    And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me.

     21That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; (inseparable)

    that they also may be one in us:

    that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    22And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: (from the very beginning PRE-EXISTED, when he poured His spirit SLAIN LIKE A LAMB……and became POOR, in the process of the world.)

    that, they may be one, as we also are one.

    23I in them,( AS AN INFINITESIMAL SPIRIT IN EVERY CREATURES’ HEART) and thou in me: ( IN MY HEART) that they may be made

    perfect in one:

    and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.

    24Father, I will that where I am,(inseparable with the Father) they also whom thou hast given me may be with me:

    (THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE one substance in Jesus as THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD on the last day of the Lord )

    that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, (BEFORE CREATION)

    because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.( PRE-EXISTED)

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    March 26, 2020 at 11:15 am#850906
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    Good words. I believe that you quoted Berean, not me there.

    This is what I told Gene one page back:

    Jehovah is both the God of gods (the Father) and the Lord of lords (the Son). Jehovah is not God of gods apart from His Son who is the Lord of lords. Together they created as one creator Jehovah God. They did not act separately, they acted interdependently, united in their Holy Spirit as one spirit.

    Blessings, LU

     

    March 26, 2020 at 11:18 am#850908
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Lightenup,

    Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

    The child’s father is David, and this child SHALL BE great and he SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest. 

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased….28 And immediately his fame spread abroad throughout all the region round about Galilee.

    Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased…Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,.. 14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

    Jesus wasn’t GREAT until he was begotten by God of God’s Spirit where at that moment God declared that THIS man, Jesus of Nazareth the son of David, was His Son. This Jesus, the only begotten mortal man to receive of God’s Spirit in full measure, was then SENT out into the world beginning in Galilee where his fame spread because of all his words and deeds he did through God by God’s Spirit upon him.

    Jesus tells you himself when he was anointed and sent in Luke 4, and his anointing is him having God’s Spirit abode upon him without measure. No other mortal man received of God’s Spirit without measure.

    God sent JESUS, the Son of Man to save that which was lost AFTER God placed His Spirit upon him in fullness.

    Luke 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty (forgiveness/pardon) them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,..28 Even as the Son of man CAME not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    This isn’t just any Son of Man, this is the son of David of prophecy who God promised He would be a Father to. This isn’t just any Son of Man, this is the son of Jesse who would receive of God’s Spirit in fullness, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD for the purpose TO BE SENT out TO bring forth liberty- pay the penalty for the world’s sins. 

    Lightenup, hear the prophecy fulfilled in Jesus, the son of David promised to be made into God’s Son, Jesus had God’s Spirit upon him so that he would be SENT TO pay the penalty for the world’s sins. JESUS was God’s only Son who received of God’s Spirit not by measure for the purpose of being SENT to pay the penalty for the world’s sins. 

    Jesus WAS the only mortal man begotten of God to fulfill all of God’s will, being of the seed of David and according to a promise God raised him up to be a savior. NOW Jesus IS the first begotten of the dead, where upon rising from the dead he was begotten of God as a firstborn of many brethren, and is a Son of God according to the Spirit of which he received according to a promise when he rose from the dead. 

    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead

    Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 

    Jesus is a Son of God ACCORDING to a promise which was spoken by the prophets, he is not a Son according to pre-existing as a son. The Son of Man exalted, sitting at God’s right hand in heaven right now, was raised from the dead receiving the promised Holy Spirit, where on that day of his resurrection he was begotten of God becoming God’s eternal Son. 

    Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 

     

     

     

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