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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • August 29, 2021 at 7:07 pm#873183
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    1 Timothy 6:20-21… O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions from science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

    I do my own science, and have found absolutely nothing that contradicts the world God described through Moses and other Bible writers.

    How about you?  Have you personally verified anything regarding the scientific claims of godless men that contradict scripture?  Of course not.  These godless men show you CGI of a circle that they say is an actual photograph of the “planet Pluto” – and you blindly believe even as they laugh at you by putting the Disney character Pluto right in the image!

    I had a telescope and the moon look like that, except it had a mouse on it because it is made of cheese.

    Further, I also love to take photos. Here is a photo of Mt Taranaki in New Zealand taken from over the curve. How do I know? Because the photo below makes the peak to the right look like an island. The one on the left is Kapiti Island. The peak on the right is not an island at all. It is a huge conical volcano sitting in the middle of farmland. That land is out of view because it is over the curve. There you go. Science.

    And my other photo of Mt Ruapehu proved you wrong too. Dan gave you a science lesson that you had no come back on.

    Then there are the boat races that go around the Southern Hemisphere where distances and times they travel agree with the globe and not this vast distance that the flat earth would have us believe. And of course, my friends dad has been to the South Pole. I think these alone debunk your flat earth for me.

    Notice I didn’t include satellite, plane routes, and all the other stuff that kicks the flat earth into the middle of next week.

    And here is Mt Taranaki close up. Now you can see the land and the bottom part of the mountain.

    mount-taranaki-lonely-mountain

    August 29, 2021 at 7:08 pm#873184
    Berean
    Participant

    To all

    IS CHRIST A BEING
    CREATED ?
    …… We must dwell for a few moments on an opinion which is
    honestly supported by many who would not dishonor Christ
    voluntarily, but who, because of that opinion, actually deny His Divinity.
    It is the idea that Christ is a created being, who, by the good pleasure of God, was lifted up
    to His sublime present position. No one who shares this opinion
    can truly understand the high position Christ occupies
    in fact.
    The opinion in question is based on a misinterpretation of the text alone
    of Revelation 3:14: “Write also to the angel of the church in Laodicea: This is what says
    the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God “.
    This is misinterpreted as meaning that Christ is the first being
    that God created; that God’s work of creation began with Him. But this
    opinion is contrary to the texts of Scripture which state that Christ himself
    created all things. Saying that God began His work of creation as a creator
    Christ is to leave Christ entirely out of the work of creation.
    The word translated as “beginning” is “ark” which means “head” or “chief”. I
    appears in the name of the Greek governor Archon, in Archbishop, and in the
    archangel word. Let us see this last word. Christ is the Archangel. See Jude 9; 1
    Theses. 4:16; Jn 5:28, 29; Dan. 10:21 am. It does not mean that he is the first
    angels, for He is not an angel, but He is above them. This means
    that He is the chief or prince of the angels, just as an archbishop is the
    head of bishops. Christ is the “head” of the angels (see Rev. 19: 11-14). He created the
    angels (Col. 1:16). Likewise, the assertion that He is the beginning or the head
    of the creation of God, means that in Him the creation found its beginning;
    that as he himself says, He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end,
    the first and the last (Rev. 21: 6; 22:13). He is the source where all things
    find their origin.
    Neither should we imagine that Christ is a creature, because Paul
    calls him: “the firstborn of all creation” (Col. 1:15), because the following verses
    saying that He is the creator, and not a creature. “For it is through Him that were
    created all things in the heavens and in the earth, the visible and the invisible, thrones, dignities, dominations, authorities. All was created by him and for him. He is
    before all things, and all things subsist in Him. “Now, if He created all
    things that were never created, and if He existed before all created things, He is
    evident that He is not one of the created things. He is above all
    creation, and He is not a part of that creation.
    The Scriptures declare that Christ is “the Only Begotten of God”. He is begotten, and
    not created. As to when He was begotten, it is not for us to make
    investigations into this, and our minds could not comprehend it if this
    was explained to us. The prophet Micah tells us all we can
    know on this subject, by these words: “And you, Bethlehem Ephrata, little one among the
    thousands of Judah, from you will come forth for me the one who will rule over Israel, and whose
    the origin goes back to ancient times, to the days of eternity “(Mic. 5: 1, 2).
    had a time when Christ appeared from God out of the bosom of the Father (Jn 8:42;
    1:18), but that time was so far in the past, in the days of eternity,
    that to limited understanding, this epoch is virtually without
    beginning.
    But the important thing is that Christ is the only Son of God and not a created subject. He
    possesses by inheritance a name more excellent than that of the angels; There is a son in
    His own house (Heb. 1: 4; 3: 6). And since He is the only begotten Son of God, He is of
    the same substance and nature as God, and possesses by birth all the attributes
    of God ; because the Father would like His Son to be the exact image of His Person,
    the shine of His glory, and be filled with all the fulness of the Godhead. So He has the
    “life in itself”; He possesses immortality by virtue of His own right, and can
    grant it to others. Life is natural in Him, therefore it cannot be Him
    removed; but having willingly given His life, He can take it back. He says “here is
    why the Father loves Me: it is because I give my life, in order to be able to
    to resume. No one takes it away from me, but I give it of myself; I have the power
    to give it, and I have the power to take it back: I have received this order from my Father “(Jn
    10:17, 18).
    If anyone objects the old objection, namely: How could Christ be
    immortal and yet die? we just have to say that we don’t
    do not know. We do not claim to understand everything about Infinity. We don’t
    can’t understand how Christ could be God in the beginning,
    sharing the same glory with the Father before the world was, and yet
    being born as a baby in Bethlehem. The mystery of the crucifixion and the
    resurrection is only the mystery of the incarnation. We can not
    understand how Christ could be God and become man for our
    good. We can’t understand how He could make the world out of nothing,
    nor how He could raise the dead, nor yet how He can act by His
    Spirit in our own hearts; however, we believe and know these
    things. It should be enough for us to accept as truth what God has revealed, without tripping over things the intelligence cannot comprehend.
    Also, we rejoice in the infinite power and glory that the scriptures
    declare that they belong to Christ, without tormenting our limited mind in a vain
    attempt to explain infinity.
    Finally, we know the divine oneness of the Father and the Son because all
    two have the same spirit. Paul, after saying that those in the flesh do not
    may please God, continues: “for you, you do not live according to the flesh, but
    according to the Spirit, if it is true that the Spirit of God dwells in you; but if someone
    has not the Spirit of Christ, He is not his “(Ro. 8: 9). Here we find that the
    Holy Spirit is the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ. Christ “is in the bosom of
    Father “; being by nature of the same substance as God, and having life in him-
    even, He is rightly called Jehovah, the only one existing by Himself, and in
    Jeremiah 23: 5, 6, it is said of Him, that a righteous Sprout will execute judgment and
    righteousness on earth, shall be known as Jehovah-tsidekenu “the Lord our
    justice”.
    Let no one, therefore, who claims to honor Christ, grant Him less
    honor that he does not bestow on the Father, for that would dishonor the Father. That all,
    with the angels of heaven, worship the Son, without fear of worshiping and serving the creature
    instead of the Creator.

    August 29, 2021 at 7:10 pm#873185
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So then God created the earth to be inhabited by men, but gave it an “atmosphere” that we couldn’t even see through, let alone breathe?

    When you first build a house, you cannot live in it right away.

    It takes time to make it habitable.

    August 29, 2021 at 7:13 pm#873186
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Perhaps there is a thread called “The Bible” or something.  I simply don’t have the time to be invested in a dozen different threads on a bunch of different subjects… especially when they all relate to the truth of scripture in one way or another.  This is, after all, a Bible discussion forum.

    You could put yourself on the Hot Seat and we can all have a go at you.

    August 30, 2021 at 4:21 am#873190
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  Of course we know the word “begotten” in this case isn’t literal because we know that God the Father didn’t have sex with God the Mother to produce Jesus.

    LU:  Of course there is asexual reproduction which wouldn’t require a partner. I believe it is entirely possible for the eternal One to asexually reproduce and “literally” beget a son of His own kind.

    But in the case of asexual reproduction the word “begotten” wouldn’t be literal either.  Nor would the words “father” or “son”.  The original entity wouldn’t have brought forth an offspring (the meaning of “beget”).  Instead, the split would have resulted in two 100% identical entities, equal in every single way.  So you haven’t gained a literal meaning of “begotten”, but have instead lost the literal meanings of “father” and “son”.

    Of course we could imagine the same thing concerning God’s other spirit sons too, right?  Perhaps the meaning of God creating the angels through Jesus means that the Jesus clone of God asexually produced them – which makes them 100% identical to Jesus in every way, and therefore 100% identical to God in every way too, right?

    Kathi, do you believe that Jesus is 100% identical in every single way to the one he calls his God?

    Is it possible that the angels were produced the same way?  Why or why not?

    August 30, 2021 at 4:29 am#873191
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: AMEN LU,

    For GOD NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE !!!

    Don’t you mean “For our two 100% identical Gods nothing is impossible!” ?

    2 Timothy 4:3-4… For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    August 30, 2021 at 4:41 am#873192
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  That land is out of view because it is over the curve.

    Could there be any other explanation for the land not showing up in your photo?  Or is “because it is over the curve” the only possible explanation there is?

     

     

     

    August 30, 2021 at 5:28 am#873193
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene:  You said everyone of those Gods were a person, “O” really ,  many scriptures tell of God that have eyes and can’t , see legs and can’t walk, Gods made of trees that are decorated with Gold and silver or images and fastened with a banner so they can’t fall over…

    Gene, I was talking about the gods that I mentioned in my post… the ones Jehovah explicitly identified as gods.  I was not talking about inanimate objects that men create for themselves and then pretend they are gods who can save them.  In fact, Isaiah 44:9-20 is one of my all time favorite passages in scripture.  God cracks me up in that one…  “Half of the tree he burns on the fire to warm his dinner, and the other half he carves into an image and bows down to it and says, ‘You are my god! Save me!'”  😂🤣😅

    But here’s another passage to help you see the point I’m making…

    2 Kings 1:2, 6…  Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, “Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury.” 

    “A man came to meet us,” they replied. “And he said to us, ‘Go back to the king who sent you and tell him, “This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending messengers to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?’’

    Here again we have Jehovah Himself calling someone else a god – and using the plural “elohim” to do it.  Notice that Jehovah doesn’t say Baal-Zebub is a “false god”, or that he couldn’t provide the information that Ahaziah was seeking.  Instead, Jehovah was angry because Ahaziah was seeking the information from a DIFFERENT god – instead of his own God.

    Later on we find out that Baal-Zebub is actually Satan, the ruler of the demons (Matt 12:24-26), and that he is “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4).

    So Gene, is Satan a real god or not?  Jehovah calls him a god.  Paul calls him a god.  What do you say about it?

     

    August 30, 2021 at 6:17 am#873194
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:  The opinion in question is based on a misinterpretation of the text alone
    of Revelation 3:14: “Write also to the angel of the church in Laodicea: This is what says
    the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God “.
    This is misinterpreted as meaning that Christ is the first being
    that God created; that God’s work of creation began with Him. But this
    opinion is contrary to the texts of Scripture which state that Christ himself
    created all things.

    The entirety of what you posted is flawed beyond belief, Berean.  For example, there is no scripture in the Bible that says Jesus created anything.  None.  On the other hand, there is Prov 8:22 (God created me as the first of His works), Col 1:15 (the firstborn of every creature), Micah 5:2 (his origin is from ancient times), and Ps 2:7 (today I have brought you forth into existence) that all SUPPORT the meaning of “beginning of the creation by God” in Rev 3:14.

    So while the person you quoted says “beginning” is “CONTRARY” to scripture, the truth is that at least 4 scriptures explicitly support it – and that’s not even counting the hundreds of scriptures that say Jesus is the SON of God.

    So what you have here is a bait and switch fallacy…

    1.  Scripture says Jesus created all things.

    2.  Therefore Jesus can’t be the beginning of God’s creation.

    Since #1 is blatantly false, the argument made by using #1 to support #2 is moot.

    Berean:  Neither should we imagine that Christ is a creature, because Paul
    calls him: “the firstborn of all creation” (Col. 1:15), because the following verses
    saying that He is the creator, and not a creature. “For it is through Him that were
    created all things in the heavens and in the earth…

    This is the same tactic…

    1.  Jesus created all things.

    2.  Therefore Jesus can’t be the firstborn of every creature.

    Again, since #1 is blatantly false (your source even uses the proper “through him all things were created”), the argument made by using #1 to support #2 is moot.

    Berean:  …whose origin goes back to ancient times… but that time was so far in the past… that to limited understanding, this epoch is virtually without beginning.

    No word in Micah 5:2 means “from eternity”.  So when we exclude the parts from your source that aren’t supported by scripture, the above is what he actually says… “Jesus’ origin was so long ago that we could almost understand him as being virtually (but not actually) without beginning”.  Translation:  Jesus was created a very long time ago.

    But this one really takes the cake…

    Berean:  Christ is the Archangel. See Jude 9; 1 Theses. 4:16; Jn 5:28, 29; Dan. 10:21 am. It does not mean that he is the first angel, for He is not an angel, but He is above them. This means
    that He is the chief or prince of the angels, just as an archbishop is the
    head of bishops.

    Um… an archbishop IS most certainly a bishop…

    Screenshot (1)

    So the idea that Jesus is an archangel but not himself an angel is absurd.  Here’s a scriptural example…

    Luke 12:11-12… When you are brought before synagogues, rulers, and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say. For at that time the Holy Spirit will teach you what you should say.

    The red word is the Greek word “arche”.  So your source is basically claiming that since the rulers mentioned above are ruling over humans, then can’t also be human.  Hopefully you can see how his claim is undeniably false now.

    Anyway, these are just a few things that jumped out at me, Berean.  The entire writing is filled with unscriptural and erroneous claims.

     

     

    August 30, 2021 at 6:26 am#873195
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike: So then God created the earth to be inhabited by men, but gave it an “atmosphere” that we couldn’t even see through, let alone breathe?

    Proclaimer: When you first build a house, you cannot live in it right away.  It takes time to make it habitable.

    So then God is like a man, requiring a bunch of time to build something?  Let’s just cut to the chase…

    God told Moses that He created the sun, the moon, and all of the stars on day 4.  So your idea that these “stars” already existed but we just couldn’t see them right away is contrary to scripture.

    Who is right?  You or God?

    August 30, 2021 at 6:36 am#873196
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: Carmel: GODMAN:

    1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come: and he hath given us understanding that

    we may know THE TRUE GOD,

    and may be in his TRUE SON.

    This is the true God and life eternal.

    Mike, I produced the above scripture,

    The above scripture is as clear as crystal! READ:

    THE SON CAME,

    THE SON GAVE US UNDERSTANDING,

    THAT WE MAY KNOW THE TRUE GOD????

    Up to that moment in time, no one knew THE TRUE GOD!

    NOW ON THIS PLANET, SOMETHING TO BE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, 

    MUST BE BOTH VISIBLE AND PHYSICAL!

    Mike, the above  CREDENTIALS, belong only to THE SON! Thus ON THIS PLANET,

    this true God MAY BE IN THE TRUE SON.

    JESUS CHRIST

    There’s is no way out for God the Father INVISIBLE AND UNLOWN to be KNOWN and ACCEPTED as the

    TRUE GOD EXCEPT IN HIS SON

    JESUS CHRIST!

    FOR GOD’S SAKE;  THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND LIFE ETERNAL!

    THE TRUE SON JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN!

    THE TRUTH AND ETERNAL LIFE!

    Now, is there a scripture, precisely THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD, which clearly says

    GOD THE FATHER IS TRUE and ETERNAL LIFE! NO! Despite the fact that

    HE IS, THANKS ONLY TO JESUS THE MAN WHO REVEALED HIM IN HIMSELF IN

    John17:3 Now this is eternal life: ( JESUS CHRIST)  That they may know thee,

    the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    SENT VISIBLE AND PHYSICAL, 1 John1:1, AS GOD THE FATHER COULD NOT,

    BUT SINCE ALL POSSIBLE FOR GOD,

    GOD IN THE SON MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE FATHER TO BE BOTH VISIBLE AND PHYSICAL, 

    BOTH TRUE AND ETERNAL LIFE!

    BOTH GOD AND MAN! 

    JESUS CHRIST

    John14:6 Jesus saith to him:

     I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

    No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

    Mike, JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND ETERNAL LIFE!

    1 John 1:2 For the life was manifested,  and we have seen and do bear witness,

    and declare unto you THE LIFE ETERNAL,(JESUS CHRIST)

    which was with the Father, and hath APPEARED to us:

    JESUS CHRIST

    Mike, JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND ETERNAL LIFE!

    Now, you produced the scripture hereunder:

    1 John 5:20…  And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may

    know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true,

    through His Son Jesus Christ. 

    This is the true (MANIFESTED) God and eternal life.

    The above scripture is partly perplexing!!!

    I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO ANALYZE IT YOURSELF!

    GO AHEAD SHOW ME YOUR TRUTH!

    IN THE MEANTIME JUST REFLECT ON THIS PART:

    and we are in Him who is true,

    1Colossians 16:

    FOR IN HIM were all things created in heaven and on earth, …: all things were created by him and

    IN HIM. 17And he is before all, and by him, all things consist.  19Because

    IN HIM, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; 

    Now I have given enough scripture which clearly declares that

    JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE ETERNAL!

    I WONDER WHO IS HIDDEN IN THE PERSONAL PRONOUN “HIM” IN I John5:20 ABOVE

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ 

    August 30, 2021 at 6:43 am#873197
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  You could put yourself on the Hot Seat and we can all have a go at you.

    You should put yourself on the Hot Seat for refusing to answer simple questions that I keep asking you.

    1.  David says the sun runs a circuit over the face of the earth from one end of the heaven to the other.  You say that is not the case.  Who is “lying” (since in your mind there is only “true or lie”)?  You or David?

    2.  God says He created the sun, moon, and stars on day 4.  You say that’s not the case.  Who is lying?  You or God?

    3.  Joshua says “the sun stood still in the midst of heaven and the moon stood motionless”.  You say that’s not the case.  Who is lying?  You or Joshua?

    4.  Scripture says that God rules from His throne which is surrounded by the throne of Jesus and the thrones of 24 elders and is above us – as in over our heads up in the sky.  You say there is no such thing as “up” in the real world, and therefore this can’t be the case.  Who is lying?  You or Scripture?

    August 30, 2021 at 7:01 am#873198
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel: Mike, I produced the above scripture,

    The above scripture is as clear as crystal! READ:

    THE SON CAME,

    THE SON GAVE US UNDERSTANDING,

    THAT WE MAY KNOW THE TRUE GOD????

    Up to that moment in time, no one knew THE TRUE GOD!

    Yes, God’s Son came and gave us a better understanding of his and our God…

    John 1:18…  No one has ever seen God, but the only-begotten god, who is in close relationship with the Father, has made Him known to us.

    Understand?  The “true God” that Jesus came to make known to us was his own God, YHWH.  He is our God and Jesus’ God.  You and Jesus have the same God, Carmel.

    1.  Is it scriptural that God performed signs and wonders through His servant Moses?  Yes or No?

    2.  Is it scriptural that God performed signs and wonders through His servant Jesus?  Yes or No?

    3.  Is it scriptural that God could perform even greater signs and wonders through any of us?  Yes or No?

    Carmel, I understand that answering these questions would destroy your doctrine.  But just so you know, since the rest of us realize that this is exactly why you refuse to answer them, your doctrine has already been destroyed.  Your silence has spoken volumes.

    August 30, 2021 at 7:31 am#873199
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    You said:

    Kathi, do you believe that Jesus is 100% identical in every single way to the one he calls his God?

    Is it possible that the angels were produced the same way?  Why or why not?

    I believe the Father and Son are identical in every way possible except one was begotten as the only begotten (the Son), and the other (the Father) was the begetter. The Father was never begotten.

    The angels were not asexually reproduced from the Father. It was through the Son that angels were created, not begotten.

    August 30, 2021 at 7:54 am#873200
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    Astonishing the energy you deploy to resist against the truth …..

    August 30, 2021 at 8:41 am#873201
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: Jesus is no longer a man, since flesh cannot see, enter or inherit the kingdom of heaven. 

    ME: NO Mike you are not precise, NOT FLESH, but

    FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

    Mike, JESUS IS NO LONGER A MAN, BUT

    GODMAN!

    JESUS OWNS NOT THE ORDINARY MORTAL FLESH BUT

    THE SPIRITUAL GLORIFIED FLESH!

    WHICH MEANS THAT WHEN HE MANIFESTED HIMSELF TO HIS DISCIPLES AFTER HE ENTERED THE CLOSED ROOM, THOUGH HE WAS IN FLESH AND BONES HE WAS ALSO SPIRIT SIMPLY IN

    A GLORIFIED SPIRIT/FLESH BODY!

    THAT’S WHY

    JESUS IS GODMAN! 

    FOR THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, THE FACT THAT HE IS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE MOST HIGH. NO LONGER  SERVANT Mr. Mike.

    BUT THE SOLE SOVEREIGN  OVER THE COSMOS AS

    THE GOD OF ALL FLESH! SUPERIOR TO 

    GOD THE FATHER WHO IS ONLY SPIRIT WELL CLEAR IN

    John17:10 And all my things (HUMAN) are thine, and thine (SPIRITUAL) are mine;

    and I am glorified in them. 

    YOU: So even if you insisted that the red “This” referred to Jesus,

    ME: AND HOW!!!

    YOU: it would say Jesus is “god” – but not “man”.  Therefore, not “GODMAN” as you erroneously claim all the time.

    POOR Mike, YOU ARE SO BLIND WITH EVERY RESPECT!

    THAT MEANS THAT GOD THE FATHER HAS FAILED IN HIS TASK OF BECOMING MAN IN

    JESUS CHRIST! something that Jesus Himself confirmed that HE WAS ALREADY 

    GODMAN IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER,

    THE ONLY EMBODIMENT OF GOD!

    John17:5And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.

     

    ONLY JESUS IS GLORIFIED IN THE UNIQUE GLORIFIED BODY BOTH

    SPIRIT, GODLY, AND FLESH HUMAN. Yes Mike

    GODMAN, 

    1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it shall rise a spiritual body.

    If there be a natural body, there is also a spiritual body, as it is written: 

    45The first man Adam was made into a living soul;

    the last Adam into a quickening spirit.

    They are both Adam, despite the name Adam means of the red earth!WHY?

    SIMPLY AS JESUS UNIFIED BOTH THE EARTHLY AND THE HEAVENLY, THEY ARE NOT TWO ANYMORE BUT

    TWO IN ONE FLESH, 

    Read and accept the TRUTH

    John1:51And he saith to him: Amen, amen I say to you, you shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    Genesis 28:12 And he saw in his sleep a ladder standing upon the earth, and the top thereof touching heaven: the angels also of God ascending and descending by it; 

    The angels of God are coming on this planet and return back to heaven as

    CHILDREN OF GOD 

    Now to

    Luke 24:36 Now whilst they were speaking these things, Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not. 37But they being troubled and frightened, supposed

    that they saw a spirit.

    DESPITE IN FLESH!!!

    38And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see:

    for a (ORDINARY) spirit hath not flesh and bones,

    as you see me to have.

    40And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    August 30, 2021 at 9:14 am#873203
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: 1.  Is it scriptural that God performed signs and wonders through His servant Moses?  Yes or No?

    2.  Is it scriptural that God performed signs and wonders through His servant Jesus?  Yes or No?

    3.  Is it scriptural that God could perform even greater signs and wonders through any of us?  Yes or No?

    Carmel, I understand that answering these questions would destroy your doctrine.  But just so you know, since the rest of us realize that this is exactly why you refuse to answer them, your doctrine has already been destroyed.  Your silence has spoken volumes.

    ME: you are wrong Mike, I am just waiting for the right time to do that!

    Mike, since your PERCEPTION AND MENTALITY regarding God and Jesus Christ is DIFFERENT TO mine they are simply

    ALL NO Mr. Mike!

    I am in the position to discern THE TRUE GOD, but I’m afraid YOU ARE NOT,

    AS YOU  SIMPLY BELIEVE IN A MYSTERIOUS, HIDDEN, AND UNKNOWN GOD!

    John14:1 LET not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me.

    Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith to him:

    I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

    7If you had known me, you would without a doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and

    you have seen him.

    8Philip saith to him: Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me?

    Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    How sayest thou, Show us the Father? 

    1John3:1 Behold what manner of charity the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called, and should be the sons of God.

    Therefore the world knoweth not us, because it knew not him.

    2Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him:

    because we shall see him as he is.

    GODMAN JESUS CHRIST.

     

    peace nd love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    August 30, 2021 at 10:05 am#873205
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @mikeboll64

    How about it Mike.

    To continue the conversation here not related to John 1:1 on the Hot Seat. Shall I set that up?

    August 30, 2021 at 10:07 am#873206
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike…….Those objects were their true God to them,  Because the word God is not a person, place or thing,  it is a Word that Describes you relation with anything that exists. If it meets the definition of a GOD TO YOU IT “IS” your God no matter what or who it is,  that is to you, may not be to anyone else though.

    But to us true believers like Jesus and myself, and those that are true , we “ONLY” HAVE “ONE” GOD that is a True God to us, and there is no other GOD TO US.

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

     

    September 1, 2021 at 5:11 am#873258
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8 @genebalthrop @Lightenup @berean

    @gadam123     @edj @mikeboll64

    Hey guys! and everyone else I didn’t mention,

    Irenaeus wrote around AD 185 and mentions John 1:1 five times.[20]
    In one reference he comments, “‘and the Word was God,’ of course, for that which is begotten of God is God.”[21]
    Irenaeus understood Jesus as more than “a god” or a divine being of a sort.
    He referred to Jesus as God.
    Let me repeat what Irenaeus said:
    “‘and the Word was God,’ of course, for that which is begotten of God is God.”[21]
    That’s my conclusion, too!

    [20] Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter 8; Book 3, Chapter 11 (3 times); Book 5, Chapter 18.
    [21] Ibid., Book 1, Chapter 8.

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