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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • July 19, 2021 at 8:23 am#872231
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  Sorry no such expectation of Virgin born Messiah by the Hebrews please.

    Proclaimer: Young girl.

    Isaiah 7:14… Therefore the LORD Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

    So let us think logically.

    1.  In what way would an ordinary woman giving an ordinary birth be considered any kind of a sign from God – since that sort of thing happens thousands of times a day?
    2.  The LXX, written 150 years before Jesus was born on earth, translates the Hebrew word from 7:14 (which can refer to a young woman in general, or specifically to a virgin) with a Greek word that explicitly means virgin.  How did these 70 Hebrew scholars know to translate it as “virgin” instead of “young woman”?  Probably a combination of divine intervention and point #1 above (it wouldn’t be any special sign for a young girl to have a baby).
    3.   Matthew makes it clear that “virgin” was intended, even including Mary’s own astonishment that she, a virgin, could conceive without having sex.

    So the end result is that it was only a fulfillment of that particular prophecy from YHWH because the one who bore Jesus was a virgin.

    It would be interesting to find an OT scripture in which that same term was used for a married woman – or one who was no longer a virgin.  I suspect it might be similar to our English custom where once a female has sex, it is often said that she is no longer a girl, but has become a woman.

    So my question to Adam:  In what way would YHWH’s prophecy any kind of a sign if it only required a regular woman to bear a regular son in the regular manner?

    July 19, 2021 at 8:35 am#872232
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: please show how “God spoke ” any differently, through the prophets, then he Spoke “through” the man Jesus?  A Son.  

    FIRST AND FOREMOST, Gene, 

    SCRIPTURES PLEASE, NOT YOUR OWN CORRUPTED VERSION. Read

     

    Hebrews 1:1God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners,

    spoke in times past to the fathers

    BY THE PROPHETS,last of all, 

    Gene, NOT THROUGH THE PROPHETS, as you said.

    2In these days hath spoken to us

    BY HIS SON,

    Gene, NOT  THROUGH A SON, 

    Now carry on reading, and be aware of THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JESUS AND ALL THE PROPHETS:

    whom he hath appointed heir of all things,

    BY WHOM also he made the world. 

    OK Gene?  BY “THE WORD”  OF GOD, A SPIRIT MADE FLESH, AND PRECISELY, 

    GOD SPOKE DIFFERENTLY IN EVERY SENSE!  WELL CLEAR HEREUNDER:

    Matthew 23:35 Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:

    and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:

    ISN’T JESUS DIFFERENT FROM ALL THE PROPHETS WHO PRECEDED HIM, BY HIS DECLARATION ABOVE?

    WHO WAS IN THE POSITION TO DECLARE THE ABOVE Gene, OF ALL THE PROPHETS?

    JESUS BY USING THE SIMPLE PRESENT TENSE CONFIRMED BOTH OF HIS PRE-EXISTENCE WHEN HE HIMSELF “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD AS A SPIRIT EMBODIED IN ALL THE PROPHETS, SPOKE GOD’S WORD, AND ALSO OF HIS PREDICTIONS WHEN AFTER HIS DEATH AND GLORIFICATION THEY WILL ALSO KILL HIS FOLLOWERS.

    Now read and discern the difference GOD SPOKE BY

    JESUS HIS SON:

    35That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth,

    from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.

    36Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.

    GOT IT Gene? NO YOU DON’T  and you will never GET THE TRUTH, WITH YOUR CARNAL MINDED REASONING, WITH EVERY RESPECT!

    JESUS SIMPLY MADE IT CLEAR TO THEM, THAT SINCE THEIR PLEASURE, SATAN’S,  THE MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, WAS THE KILLING OF THE PROPHETS AND SO ON, NOW IS THE TIME TO JUSTIFY PRECISELY THE TRUTH AND ETERNAL LIFE, PRECISELY BY

    KILLING THE ONLY ONE UNIQUE PROPHET

    THE SON OF MAN, JESUS! WHY UNIQUE PROPHET Gene? READ WHY:

    Luke 13:31 The same day, there came some of the Pharisees, saying to him: Depart, and get thee hence, for Herod hath a mind to kill thee.

     32And he said to them:

    Go and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and do cures today and tomorrow,

    and the third day I am consummated.

    OK Gene, CAN YOU SEE HOW GOD SPOKE DIFFERENT BY JESUS? NO, YOU DON’T I’AFRAID.

    JESUS IN THE ABOVE CONFIRMED, THAT WITHIN THREE DAYS HE WOULD BE MORE THAN PLEASED TO BE KILLED, SIMPLY AS 

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK, Gene,

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK!

    THUS JESUS, “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, A SPIRIT MADE FLESH, WHO IS LIFE ETERNAL,  ONCE JESUS WOULD HAVE SPIRITUALIZED HIS FLESH BODY, A TASK WHICH COULD NOT EVER BE ACHIEVED ON EARTH AT LEAST UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME,  

    DEATH WAS THE MOST APPROPRIATE AND JUSTIFIED TASK  FOR JESUS, 

    IN ORDER TO GLORIFY AND

    GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL THOSE PROPHETS KILLED  PRECEDED HIM.  

    Now reflect on the remaining statement by Jesus and discern the TRUTH!

    33Nevertheless I must walk today and tomorrow, and the day following

    because it cannot be that

    A PROPHET PERISHES,

    (A CLEAR REFERENCE TO HIMSELF THE UNIQUE PROPHET) 

    out of Jerusalem. 

    NOW Gene, JERUSALEM IS A REFERENCE TO THE HUMAN FLESH BODY!

    THE FACT THAT JESUS IS BOTH

    THE BRIDEGROOM AND THE BRIDE,

    THE NEW JERUSALEM! ANDROGYNOUS, MALE AND FEMALE,

    SPIRITUAL FLESH! 

    GET THIS INTO YOUR CARNAL MIND Gene, THAT 

    JESUS POSSESSES A UNIQUE GLORIFIED BODY,

    THE NEW JERUSALEM!

    AND IN ONE INSTANT 

    JESUS RIGHT NOW AND FOR ETERNITY IS GLORIFIED 

    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH, 

    WHICH MEANS THAT WHEN HE WAS PRESENT IN FRONT OF HIS DISCIPLES,

    THOUGH HE WAS VISIBLE AND IN FLESH

    HE WAS ALSO SPIRIT! 

    AND JESUS MAKE USE OF IT AS HE SEEMS FIT,

    FOR HIS OWN GLORY AS HE DIED FOR IT!

    Well asserted in Jesus own words:

    Luke 24:36 Now whilst they were speaking these things, Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not.

     37But they being troubled and frightened, supposed that they saw a spirit. 

    OK Gene, obvious, despite they saw Him they still were convinced that Jesus was a spirit.

    Jesus, had to reveal THIS UNIQUE GLORIFICATION FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME OFFICIALLY ON EARTH.

    38And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

     39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see:

    for a (NORMAL) spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have. 

    THIS IS ALSO PINPOINTED OUT BY JESUS IN

    John 10:9 I am the door. By me, if any man enter in, he shall be saved:

    and he shall go in, and go out, and shall find pastures.

    The above Gene a is a CLEAR REFERENCE TO HUMANS AT THE VERY END IN GOD’S KINGDOM, 

    THE KINGDOM OF THE SON, AND THEY WOULD ALSO POSSESS 

    A SPIRIT AND FLESH BODY  AND 

    THEY SHALL GO IN AND GO OUT OF THIS

    GLORIFIED BODIES AS THEY FEEL FIT!

    Cont. Luke 13:34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent to thee,

    how often would I have gathered thy children as the bird doth her brood under her wings,

    and thou wouldest not?

    THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR ASSERTION OF JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE!

    JESUS SIMPLY DIRECTED THE ABOVE TO LUCIFER PRECISELY A REFERENCE TO HIS REBELLION IN HEAVEN WHEN GOD INFORMED THE HEAVENLY REALMS THAT HE WOULD  ESTABLISH A  DIVINE-HUMAN KINGDOM. THE MAIN REASON THAT LUCIFER REBELLED AS HE WAS NOT READY TO BE SUBJECT TO

    A MAN DESPITE DIVINE!

    35Behold your house shall be left to you desolate.

    IN THE ABOVE THE HOUSE IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO SATAN/LUCIFER’S WOMANHOOD ON EARTH TO BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH ON EVE’S SIN, THE MOTHER OF ALL THE LIVING BY WHOM ADAM DIED SPIRITUALLY AND LIVED IN  EVE’S SATANICALLY CONTAMINATED FLESH AND BLOOD SUBSTANCE, BY WHICH SUBSTANCE SATAN ALSO OCCUPIED ADAM’S SOUL.

    And I say to you, that you shall not see me till the time come, when you shall say:

    Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

     

     

     

    That is your first challenge, is to show how was there a difference in how God  “spoke” through the other prophets,  making Jesus himself “God’s ” own word “himself and the rest not?”. , and if we assume he was indeed Gods own words, then we should also assume all the other ‘prophets were also’, right?

     

    July 19, 2021 at 9:28 am#872233
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  Mike, I believed and still believe you were and are teaching lies on that subject.

    A LIE is the INTENTIONAL act of PURPOSELY telling someone something that you KNOW is UNTRUE for the sole purpose of DECEIVING them.

    Proclaimer: I even spelled out that to teach lies, one must be an intenional liar or deceived. I never said which category. That is between you and God and not for me to judge.

    Well aren’t you just the perfect little non-judgmental Christian for not flat out calling me a liar?  Yet you still proudly include that “intentional liar” option in reference to me every time, don’t you? 😂🤣

    Proclaimer:  Please explain why this summation is wrong?

    I’ve already done that a dozen times – including my first words on this post above – but let me try again.  For you to apply either option (intentional liar OR deceived) to me, you first must KNOW as a matter of FACT that… 1)what I said was inaccurate in the first place and/or… 2)that I knew it was inaccurate and intentionally told it to you for the sole purpose of deceiving you.

    Do you know either of those things?

    If so, please explain to us how you are able to not only KNOW for a FACT, but also PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that what I say about the shape of the earth is inaccurate.  And while we’re waiting for that revelation from you, I’d like you to answer three questions that might help you to understand what a lie actually is.

    Okay, you are well aware that in Psalm 19, King David explains how the sun runs its circuit from one end of the heaven to the other, right?  And you agree that David believed that the sun moves over the earth, as opposed to the earth moving around the sun, right?

    1.  How are you able to KNOW and PROVE that David was wrong?
    2.  Since you apparently know that he was wrong, did David LIE to us about the sun intentionally – or did he LIE to us because he was deceived?
    3.   If David LIED to us because he was deceived, who was it that deceived him about the sun?
    July 19, 2021 at 9:34 am#872234
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  Sorry I think this is another speculation which is not found in the NT.

    How so?  If you read the second to the last post on page 806 like I requested, you’ll see that my argument is sound.  If you want to comment further to me on this particular subject, do so by quoting and rebutting the points I made in the aforementioned post.

    July 19, 2021 at 9:53 am#872235
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene:  Mike….It’s a different body then the one buried,  but just like that seed planted it have every genetic code the PREEXISTING BODY HAD,  so when planted it (replicates the exact same body it came from) not a different “kind” of body.

    You are adding your own speculation to the scriptures, Gene.

    Gene:  “Now if the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead , dwell in you (it or he) that raised  Christ from the “dead’ shall also quicken your  ‘Mortal’   “BODY’ ,  BY THE SAME “SPIRIT”  that dwells in you>  get it Mike, it is the same body made over again…  

    Romans 8:10-11… But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you.

    As I understand that, Paul is saying that your mortal body is already technically dead, because you are living by spirit now.  But that same spirit will make those dead mortal bodies alive so you can carry out your work here on earth before you die.  This doesn’t have anything to do with resurrection, but the metaphorical idea that since we are supposed to be living by spirit even in this world, our bodies (fleshly desires) are metaphorically dead right now.

    Gene:  By the way Mike I really don’t  think, any of us are trying to mislead or lie deliberately t0 each other here either , think we all are perrty truthful about what we are thinking .  We may not always be right though,  we all have a lot of Growing to do,  “except me” ,  LOL .  

    Except you, huh?  😂🤣  Good one!  But I agree.  You and I have been arguing certain points like cats and dogs for over a decade here – and I have never once thought or said you were lying about your beliefs.  We just interpret certain scriptures differently.  I interpret them correctly, and you interpret them incorrectly. 😎

     

     

     

    July 19, 2021 at 10:11 am#872236
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    A LIE is the INTENTIONAL act of PURPOSELY telling someone something that you KNOW is UNTRUE for the sole purpose of DECEIVING them.

    No, a lie is anything that is not true.

    July 19, 2021 at 10:18 am#872238
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU:  YHVH is the particular name of a theos who is the First and the Last, the King of Israel, the Maker of Heaven and Earth, the Redeemer, the Good Shepherd, the Lord of lords, the Savior, the Giver of everlasting life, and the Forgiver of sins.

    First and last: There are many different “first and lasts”.  For example, Adam was the first and last man to be made directly out of the dust of the earth.

    King of Israel:  There have been many kings of Israel.

    Maker of Heaven and Earth:  Maker is singular, as we only have one Creator.  You have yet to make a choice which one of your Gods is that one Creator.

    Redeemer:  There are many redeemers in scripture – including all those firstborn lambs that were exchanged for the firstborn of the Hebrews.

    Good Shepherd:  I’m not familiar with God ever being called a Good Shepherd.  What verse is that?  But either way, King David was also a good shepherd before God called him to become king of Israel.

    Lord of lords:  There are many lords of other lords in scripture – and many kings of other kings.  There is, however, only one God of gods mentioned.  That one is both our God and Jesus’ God.

    Savior:  God sent many saviors throughout scripture. (Nehemiah 9:27)

    Forgiver of sins:  Jesus also gave authority to his disciples to forgive sins on earth – just as his own God gave him that authority.

     

    July 19, 2021 at 10:19 am#872239
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  No, a lie is anything that is not true.

    You’re wrong.  I await your DIRECT response to my previous post… especially the explanation of how you know and can prove I was wrong in the first place, and the answers to the 3 questions at the end.

    July 19, 2021 at 10:20 am#872240
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Removing all feelings and emotions and looking at the facts only, those who teach lies are either doing it intentionally or are deceived in that area at least. If a person is deceived and then shown proof or even strong evidence to the contrary, the person has a choice, they either change or become more wilfully deceived and more wilfully they teach lies.

    And this is where judgement comes into it. No one here that I know of has made this judgement. But stating the facts and leaving it with the person is fine. In fact that is a really good thing to do. No matter how the person feels, rebuke and correction doesn’t feel good, but it is a form of love as it is about improving or helping a brother back on the path of truth.

    I will always state the facts despite the feeling. As the quote goes, “facts don’t care about your feelings”. And it is good to have this happen because Judgement Day for each one of us will be much more so. Best to get as much sorted now, so there is less to deal with then.

    Remember that Heaven Net is not Disneyland. Never has been and never will be. It doesn’t exist for a good time. The mission is to “Hold firmly to the truth, encourage by sound doctrine, & refute those who oppose it”. And may I remind you of these words from our brother Paul:

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    July 19, 2021 at 10:22 am#872241
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I’ll state it like this.

    Do you have a fishing rod? Yes.

    Do you catch fish? Yes

    Are you a fisherman?

    See that. Not all people who catch fish are fishermen.

    Not all who sin are sinners.

    Not all who speak lies are liars.

    At what point do you become a fisherman, sinner, or liar?

    When you practice it.

    I cannot tell you what exactly the threshold is because I do not judge that which has been given to the Son to judge.

    But I am tasked with saying the facts. If that hurts, then ask yourself why it hurts. Pain is good. It is there to remind you that something is wrong and needs attention. If it doesn’t hurt, then it likely doesn’t apply to you. Unless your conscience is seared.

    July 19, 2021 at 3:45 pm#872253
    gadam123
    Participant

    Mike:

    Upon his ascension to heaven, Gene.  Jesus was raised from the dead in the same flesh body in which he died.  He dwelled on earth in that same body for another 30 days after his resurrection.  Then he ascended to heaven before the eyes of the disciples.  But we know from scripture that flesh can neither inherit nor even enter the kingdom of God – where we agree Jesus dwells now, right?

    So we know 2 things for sure:

    Jesus was NOT a spirit while he was still on earth for 30 more days after his resurrection.
    Jesus MUST BE a spirit now – or he couldn’t see, enter, or inherit the kingdom of God – which he clearly has done. (John 3:3-5; 1 Cor 15:50)
    That leaves us with only one option:  Jesus’ flesh body was transformed into his current spirit body upon his ascension from earth to heaven.  Paul talks a lot about this transformation in 1 Cor 15, and in Phil 3:20-21, Paul even says…

    But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

    Jesus shared our type of “lowly body” for the entire 33 years he dwelled on earth – including 30 days after his resurrection.  But he doesn’t still possess this “lowly body” in heaven, Gene.  He now possesses a “glorious new body” – and it was Paul’s eager hope that he too will exchange his “lowly body” for the “glorious body” Jesus now has in heaven.

    Here I have brought out your entire post from page 806 of this thread. I don’t think Paul was talking about two phases of resurrection. If I am correct he only mentioned one resurrection which is of a spiritual body in 1 Cor 15. and there is no mention of second transformation from (physical) body to spiritual after (30) days as claimed by you if it is said crudely. What he was trying to convey is ‘flesh and blood will not inherit the God’s kingdom’ but the natural body has to be decayed or destroyed to give rise to a new spiritual body which is called as glorious body IMO.

    But the Gospel writers certainly were on different plane than that of Paul on this resurrection theory. They wanted to prove that Jesus’ resurrected body was not different from that of his crucified body which was shown to be having crucifixion marks or holes in his hands and feet. Please read the verses I quoted from Fourth Gospel and Luke in my earlier post for inferring the message of resurrection by the Gospel writers.

    Hope I am clear on my statement.

    July 20, 2021 at 11:06 am#872278
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: Carmel: YOU Gene, AS SOON AS YOU HAVE FAITH AS A GRAIN OF A MUSTARD SEED YOU COULD PERFORM MIRACLES EVEN GREATER THAN JESUS DID!

    Sounds like you’re making Gene’s argument for him.

    ME: Yes Mike, “SOUNDS”

    JESUS BECAME GODMAN ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS AFTER GOD THE FATHER LEFT HIM! SIMPLY AS GOD THE FATHER GAVE 

    ALLPOWERS TO JESUS AND RIGHT NOW 

    JESUS IS THE SOLE SOVEREIGN OVER THE UNIVERSE. FOR THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER. THE FATHER IS IN HIS LONGEST REST!

    YOU: He said that Jesus didn’t do the miracles, but God did the miracles through Jesus. 

    And you rightly point out that, with enough faith,

    God can do similar and even greater miracles through any one of us.

    NOT QUITE PRECISE, Mike, I’m afraid. Read again what I said, and you also pointed out:

    Carmel: YOU Gene, AS SOON AS YOU HAVE FAITH AS A GRAIN OF A MUSTARD SEED YOU COULD PERFORM MIRACLES EVEN GREATER THAN JESUS DID!

    Mike, I never mentioned God do you know why? 

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT HUMANS CAN ONLY DO MIRACLES 

    THROUGH THE ONLY 

    TRUE GODMAN ON EARTH! Mike!!!

    THAT’S WHY HUMANS CAN DO MIRACLES BECAUSE ONLY JESUS IS

    BOTH GOD AND MAN!

    JESUS CHRIST

    TILL THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD, GOD KNOWS WHEN!

    Read what I said to Gene, NOW:

    YOU:(GENE)  YOU OR ANYONE CAN HAVE, those Spirits ( cognisities) in you but still not be able to do any miracles, by themselves.

    It’s one thing to have the Spirits (cognitions) it’s quite another to have the power to exercise them.

    God who is Spirit has to give a person the “POWER” to do Miracles,

    THAT GOD YOU MENTIONED ABOVE GENE IS JESUS! 

    ME: OK Mike,

    DO YOU AGREE???

    CARRY ON READING WHAT I SAID TO Gene,

    ON EARTH ONLY JESUS IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND GOD THE FATHER

    ONLY THROUGH HIM, A HUMAN WORKS AND MAKES MIRACLES!

    Acts3:6 …..In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, arise, and walk.
    YOU: (GENE) remember when Jesus told them to stay in Jerusalem until they receive

    “POWER” FROM ON HIGH.

    ME: THAT POWER Gene belongs to JESUS!

    ME: I HOPE THAT YOU AGREE Mike???  Read a bit more please:

    John16:7But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go:

    for if I go not,

    the Paraclete will not come to you;

    THE  FATHER COULD NOT SEND HIS HOLY SPIRIT,

    NOT BEFORE JESUS MANIFESTS HIS UNIQUE GLORIFICATION IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS DO YOU KNOW HOW Mike:

    VERY SIMPLE

    OFFICIALLY AS THE ONLY HUMAN BEING GOD IN HEAVEN!

    UNOFFICIALLY BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

    John3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but

    he (GODMAN JESUS CHRIST PRE-EXISTED the embodiment of God) that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man WHO IS in heaven. 

     

    Cont. John16:7…….but if I go,

    I will send him to you.

    JESUS IS RULING NOT THE FATHER! FOR GOD’S SAKE!!!

    12I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth.

    For he shall not speak of himself; (OF GOD THE FATHER! THE FATHER DID NOT DIE ON EARTH, NO ONE KNOWS THE FATHER ON EARTH;

    ONLY IN JESUS HUMANS CAN HAVE A FATHER) John John14:9, John15:5, John 20:17, 

    but what things soever he shall hear, ( RELATED TO JESUS) he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall show you. 

    14He shall glorify me;

    THE ONLY TRUE GODMAN ON EARTH! 

    HE DIED FOR THE TITLE!

    NOT GOD THE FATHER

    because he shall receive of MINE (POWER) and shall show it to you. (THROUGH MIRACLES)

    15All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine.
    Therefore I said, that he shall receive of MINE, and show it to you.

    through miracles

    Mike, it seems to me that you never read all of the post so READ WHAT I SAID TO Gene at the end of the post.

    Gene, have faith IN JESUS as a grain of a mustard seed,

    WHO IS IN YOU THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST, ASK JESUS

    ANYTHING AND JESUS HEARS YOU AS HE CONFIRMED HEREUNDER:

    John14:14……that I will do.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    July 20, 2021 at 12:34 pm#872279
    gadam123
    Participant

    So my question to Adam:  In what way would YHWH’s prophecy any kind of a sign if it only required a regular woman to bear a regular son in the regular manner?

    We can discuss this Virgin Birth on its main thread. I will post the reply to your query there.

    July 23, 2021 at 5:09 am#872353
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Hey Guys please hear me out,

    I will answer your posts/questions to me after my break.
    I need to study some more.
    But one thing is clear:
    Yahweh is the Most High God
    and Jesus Christ is His only begotten Son.
    Never forget that because there is a freemasonic conspiracy going on.
    These wicked freemasons are attacking either the Father or the Son.
    That’s all they can do. But their day of judgment is coming.
    They can’t defeat God. There is no escape. And Hell is eternal!
    Because there are no degrees of annihilation, but Scripture reveals there will be degrees
    of suffering among the lost in hell (see Matthew 10:15; 11:21-24; 16:27; Luke
    12:47,48; John 15:22; Hebrews 10:29; Revelation 20:11-15; 22:12). The fact
    that people will suffer varying degrees of punishment shows that annihilation
    or the extinction of consciousness is unbiblical.
    Please call out to Jesus and to His Father for salvation.
    Because your eternal destination is at stake.

    God bless you all,

    Danny

    July 23, 2021 at 8:10 am#872354
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi Danny.

    This seems off topic, but I’ll point you to this page as it addresses one of your points.

    Is Hell eternal?

    July 25, 2021 at 9:56 am#872368
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  …those who teach lies are either doing it intentionally or are deceived in that area at least.

    King David said the sun moves over the surface of the earth.  According to you he was lying, and is therefore a liar.  I’m asking again if David was lying intentionally, or lying because he was deceived.

    And if the latter, who deceived him?  And finally, how do you know what he said about the sun is a lie in the first place?

    Also – just to make sure you’re putting your money where your mouth is on this subject, please come right out and say for the record that King David was a liar.

    If you cannot answer these questions or make that statement, then you are a hypocrite who shouldn’t be taken seriously… at least on this subject.

    July 25, 2021 at 9:58 am#872369
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer: I do not judge that which has been given to the Son to judge.

    Yet you’ve judged me, and King David, as liars.  Hmm… 🙄

    July 25, 2021 at 10:34 am#872370
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  Paul… only mentioned one resurrection which is of a spiritual body in 1 Cor 15. and there is no mention of second transformation from (physical) body to spiritual after (30) days as claimed by you…

    Elijah resurrected one, Elisha resurrected two, Jesus resurrected three, Peter one, and Paul one.  All of these were resurrected to life in their original body… as was Jesus.  So I gave Gene two points that you quoted.  Please directly address those two points…

     

     

    1.  Jesus was NOT a spirit while he was still on earth for 30 more days after his resurrection.
    2. Jesus MUST BE a spirit now – or he couldn’t see, enter, or inherit the kingdom of God – which he clearly has done. (John 3:3-5; 1 Cor 15:50)

    Are both of these things true – according to scripture, Adam?  Yes or No?

    And if so, that leaves us with only one option as I see it:  Jesus’ flesh body was transformed into his current spirit body upon his ascension from earth to heaven.

    We aren’t explicitly told in scripture that this happened, but it fits with the above teachings, and the fact that Paul was eagerly awaiting his body to be transformed into a glorious body like Jesus now has in heaven.  It also fits with the transfiguration – which I believe was a sneak peak of how Jesus looks now in that glorious new body.

    Can you think of another option?  I’m all ears.

    Anyway, nobody else who will be resurrected has a job to finish on earth.  Jesus did.  He had 30 more days of work to do for his God – and some of that work required the flesh body in which he died.  All the other dead will have no need to be raised first in their flesh bodies.  So Jesus is the exception.

     

     

     

     

    July 25, 2021 at 10:42 am#872371
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  Jesus didn’t do the miracles, but God did the miracles through Jesus. God can do similar and even greater miracles through any one of us.

    Carmel:  NOT QUITE PRECISE, Mike, I’m afraid. 

    Is it scriptural that God did miracles through His holy servant Jesus?  Is it scriptural that God has done miracles through many of His other servants throughout the Bible?

    So what I say is quite precise indeed… according to the scriptures.  And God can do even greater miracles through any one of us.

    July 25, 2021 at 10:56 am#872372
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  In what way would YHWH’s prophecy be any kind of a sign if it only required a regular woman to bear a regular son in the regular manner?

    Adam:  We can discuss this Virgin Birth on its main thread. I will post the reply to your query there.

    I don’t need to follow a different thread (that is most likely filled with cut and pastes from other people) just to get a simple answer to a simple point.  The point is simple.  If God said to you…

    Adam, I am going to resurrect you to one of the highest princes in heaven, and here is my sign so you know you can trust me… a woman will one day give birth to a son.

    … wouldn’t you wonder a little bit about the validity of God’s sign – seeing it is an occurrence that happens thousands of times every single day?

    God’s sign was that a VIRGIN would give birth.  And a virgin did give birth.  That’s what made Jesus’ birth a fulfillment of prophecy.

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