Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

This topic has 25,928 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 3 hours, 34 minutes ago by DesireTruth.

Viewing 20 posts - 22,581 through 22,600 (of 25,929 total)

←1 2 3…1,1291,1301,131…1,295 1,296 1,297 →

Author
Posts
July 11, 2021 at 11:28 am#871967
Proclaimer
Participant
@dannyd
Hi Adam,
You: It’s quite interesting to see that a non-trinitarians can say Amen to a Trinitarian’s post.
Me: I’m not a Trinitarian.
I haven’t made up my mind yet. I’m still learning.
All I’m sure of and what I believe is that Yahweh is the Most High God.
And Jesus Christ is His beloved Son.
Danny. You have declared like Peter who Jesus is. The Father has revealed this.
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Notice how Peter didn’t say that Jesus is God. Notice how many today say he is God. Notice how Jesus commended Peter for his confession and made it the foundation for his Church. Also notice how the foundation for the Roman Catholic Church is the Trinity. The conclusion is inescapable.
The true Church is the Body of Christ and believes who Jesus really is. The Roman Catholic Church and her daughters are therefore fake.
“Come out of her MY PEOPLE” is the message.
July 12, 2021 at 3:01 am#871979
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike……you say Jesus is a Spirit, but Jesus said clearly he was not a Spirit. “Far a spirit has not flesh and bone as you see I have’. , that was said “after” his resurrection. Scripture says his soul would not see corruption. So when did this transfer, between flesh to spirit take place?
You say, Jesus said I existed before Abraham, scripture says before Abraham existed, “I am”. A completely different word in the text.
You say the word Angel means a messenger, while I do agree with that, but there are scriptures , that I produced that say God did not subject the world to come unto the Angels , which would negate Jesus from being in it if he were an angel of any kind. right? Heb 2:5
Jesus called himself a “SON OF MAN”. around ‘eighty times” in or scriptures, even saying, “when the son of man comes, will he find faith on the earthly > So it seems from scriptures it a son of “Man” or a Son of Mankind , thats going to return , not a spirit being of any kind .
So please show us where Jesus is transformed into a Spirit being, I would like to see that, I am not questioning the fact that the Spirit of God was “IN” him, I know it was and is, questing the fact that he is a Spirit being of any kind.
You said God has put all things under Jesus, that’s true ,but God has put all things under the foot of “all” mankind. Need proof , Heb 2:6-9
peace and love to you and yours ………..gene
July 12, 2021 at 5:12 am#871980
Danny Dabbs
Participant
@t8
Hi Proclaimer,
I still have a hard time to understand the begotten aspect of Jesus.
We both believe that Jesus shares the exact same nature as His Father.
Because He is His only begotten Son.
Well then how can we consider Him to be a lesser god?
Do you have a child, Proclaimer?
If so, then can you honestly say that your child is a lesser human being?
Isn’t that the same thing we do with Jesus?
Do you understand my point?
July 12, 2021 at 7:42 am#871981
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Danny…….it’s not because he is the only begotten son, it’s because the Spirit of God the Father “dwells” “IN” Him. Because a person has the Spirit of God “in” him , does not make him a God. Jesus while on this earth had all seven Spirits of God in him, but said he could do “NOTHING” OF HIMSELF. YOU OR ANYONE CAN HAVE, those Spirits ( cognisities) in you but still not be able to do any miracles, by themselves. It’s one thing to have the Spirits (cognitions) it’s quite another to have the power to exercise them. God who is Spirit has to give a person the “POWER” to do Miracles, remember when Jesus told them to stay in Jerusalem until they receiver “POWER” FROM ON HIGH. After they were filled with the Holy Spirit they went out and “GOD” THE FATHER “, Confirmed their words, (how), by Miracles he was doing through them, Just as he did “in” Jesus, no difference.
“One God in all and through all”, including Jesus.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
July 12, 2021 at 8:12 am#871983
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Danny…..Believe Jesus, he said he is the root and “offspring” of David. Jesus never said he was alive ” sentinel ” Being , before Abraham. There are a lot of teachings about a “PREEXISTING” Jesus out there, like when he said he was sent from above, that is true God who is in heaven above did send him out into the world to preach the Gospel of the kingdom of Gods. That took place after he was Baptized and received the Holy Spirit, then he was sent , first into the wilderness to be tested, them out into the world to preach the good new of the kingdom of God on this earth. They use the word from above as meaning he was in heaven when he was sent, just another lie, fostered by false teachers.
jesus also said he was from above, but he also said that the apostles were from above also. I can get the scripture for you if you like. But you never here any of them tell you that do you.
Danny one of the biggest lie of Satan, is to try to make people believe Jesus is not “exactly like we are, the reason behind that lie is to make you think you cannot become “EXACTLY” the Same as Jesus is. It’s a lie that breakers you faith in the one and only true God. This lie started by Satan and his ministers right off the bat, when the Church first started, it was to make Jesus appear different the we are, a complete Satanic deception, that has infected the Church over the last 2000 years. Don’t buy into it Danny.
Be a brother of Jesus , and Worship God the Father the “ONLY” TRUE God, the same God that JESUS worshiped and still does.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
July 12, 2021 at 11:06 am#871987
Lightenup
Participant
Gene,
My suggestion to you is to learn Greek. If you were to understand the word “dia” and how to translate it correctly with a word in the accusative Greek case or the genitive Greek case, you would not be continually trying to tell us that “dia” means “for the sake of” or “because of” or “on account of.” Dia only means that when followed by a word in the accusative case. When followed by a word written in the genitive case, it is translated as “through, throughout, by the instrumentality of.”
Gene, you claim that dia means for the sake of when the verse says that all things were made through Jesus (Him) here:
Col 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
That phrase “through Him” is di (dia) with Him being in the “genitive” case.
See the letters under “Him” written as PPro-GM3S? That “G” stands for the genitive case and therefore causes the di (dia) to be translated as “through” or even “by the instrumentality of”, not “for the sake of” as you claim.
I hope you can understand this and stop your misuse of the word dia which you seem to base your theology on.
Blessings, LU
July 12, 2021 at 11:07 am#871988
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
YOU:
Mike……you say Jesus is a Spirit, but Jesus said clearly he was not a Spirit. “Far a spirit has not flesh and bone as you see I have’. , that was said “after” his resurrection.
Gene, WITH EVERY RESPECT, YOU, A CARNAL MINDED PERSON,
WILL NEVER SEE THE TRUTH REGARDING
THE SPIRITUAL TASK OF GOD ON EARTH IN
JESUS CHRIST:
GODMAN!
Read scripture:
Now whilst they were speaking these things,
Jesus stood in the midst of them,
ME: Gene if today somebody familiar with you DEAD, appears to you, you definitely would be in the presence of a GENUINE spirit being.
Likewise, Jesus’ disciples were also sure that they saw a spirit BEING since Jesus was DEAD, AND THEY ASLO WERE TERRORIZED! CARRY ON READING:
and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not.
37But they being troubled and frightened, supposed that they saw a spirit.
IN THE ABOVE IN THE WORD” SUPPOSED” ASSERTED THAT JESUS DEFINITELY FROM THE DEAD, FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER FOR THE GLORY OF GOD,
WAS NOT A NORMAL SPIRIT BEING FROM THE DEAD!
THE REASON THAT LUCIFER REBELLED, AS HE FELT THAT HE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO BE THE DIRECT CONTENDER TO JESUS, ORIGINALLY BOTH THE MORNING STAR, THE FIRST SON OF GOD! MALE and FEMALE, ANDROGENOUS.
THUS A UNIQUE DIVINE GLORIFIED SPIRIT THE SON OF GOD, FOR THE FIRST TIME
GODMAN!
SO JESUS SIMPLY DEMONSTRATED IMMEDIATELY HIS GLORIFICATION!
38And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see:
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,
as you see me to have.
OK Gene, A NORMAL SPIRIT BEING HAS NO FLESH AND BONES, BUT
JESUS A UNIQUE GLORIFIED DIVINE SPIRIT HAS THE ONLY SUPERIOR QUALITY STATE OF BEING IN ONE INSTANT
BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AS HE SEES FIT IN
ONE UNIQUE GLORIFIED BODY!
JESUS, “THE WORD”, A SPIRIT MADE FLESH FOR THE SECOND TIME ON EARTH,
WAS MADE FLESH
AND POSSESSED IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME AND THIS TIME FOR ETERNITY
A SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY
THE NEW JERUSALEM!
AND JESUS USES THIS UNIQUE STATE AS HE FEELS FIT!
NOW Gene, TO SOME SPIRITUAL TASKS ACCOMPLISHED BY JESUS ON EARTH WHILE HE WAS ACCORDING TO YOU, ADAM, AND JODY
A MERE MAN!

Matthew 17:2And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow.
IN THE ABOVE Gene YOU HAVE A CLEAR DESCRIPTION OF WHAT JESUS’ BODY,
“THE WORD” A SPIRIT, MADE FLESH
THE SON OF MAN
WAS TRANSFORMED IN,
Thayer’s Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3339: μεταμορφόω
μεταμορφόω, μεταμόρφω: passive, present μεταμορφοῦμαι; 1 aorist μετεμορφώθη;
to change into another form
(cf. μετά, III. 2), to transfigure, transform: μετεμορφώθη, of Christ,
his appearance was changed (A. V. he was transfigured), i. e.
was resplendent with a divine brightness, Matthew 17:2;
TELL ME Gene,
ACCORDING TO YOU WHAT WAS THE STATE OF JESUS
CHANGED INTO ANOTHER FORM AND IN
A DIVINE BRIGHTNESS:
Definition of divine
(Entry 1 of 3)
1 religion: of, relating to or proceeding directly from God.
MORE SCRIPTURE:
Luke 4:28 And all they in the synagogue, hearing these things, were filled with anger.
Gene, do me favour PLEASE, JUST TELL ME HOW MANY WERE THEY HEARING JESUS IN THE SYNAGOGUE, IN YOUR LOGICAL OPINION! CARRY ON READING IN THE MEANTIME:
29And they rose up and thrust him out of the city;
AGAIN Gene, THEY THRUST JESUS SO WELL THAT THEY BROUGHT HIM OUT OF THE CITY, NO?
and they brought him to the brow of the hill, whereon their city was built, that they might
cast him down headlong.
OK Gene, THAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THESE DEVILS IN HUMAN FLESH AS JEWS!
NOW READ WHAT DID OCCUR!
30But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.
AS SIMPLE AS THAT, THAT’S HOW JESUS HANDLED THESE BUNCH OF DEVILS IN FLESH!
Explain Gene; WHAT DID HAPPEN TO JESUS’BODY TOTALLY ENTRAPPED STILL SIMPLY
pass through the midst of them,
and went his way, DESPITE
THEY WERE MANY, HELD HIM SO WELL, BUT AT THE PRECISE MOMENT THAT THEY WERE TO CAST HIM DOWN HEADLONG,
JESUS WITHIN HIMSELF SIMPLY SAID NO NOT YET,
IT IS MY LIFE AND NO ONE WILL TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME, BUT I WILL LAY IT DOWN MYSELF WHEN IT PLEASES ME!
MORE SCRIPTURE:
Luke 13:31 The same day, there came some of the Pharisees, saying to him: Depart, and get thee hence, for Herod hath a mind to kill thee.
32And he said to them: Go and tell that fox,
Behold, I cast out devils, and do cures today and tomorrow,
and the third day
I am consummated.
Gene, THE SPIRITUAL TASK OF GOD WAS NOT ONLY FOR JESUS TO DIE IN THE FLESH, AND SAVE HUMANITY, BUT ALSO THAT THROUGH HIS WHOLE
SPIRITUAL LIFE
EMPOWERED BY GOD THE FATHER IN HIM FROM CONCEPTION IN THE HOLY GHOST,
DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE WAS A HUMAN BEING, HE SPIRITUALIZED HIS FLESH BODY TO THE EXTENT THAT AS SOON AS THEY KILLED HIM HE IMMEDIATELY BECAME ALIVE IN HIS SPIRITUAL BODY ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST. CONFIRMED IN
1Peter 3:18 Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God,
being put to death indeed in the flesh,
but enlivened in the spirit,
TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO YOU Gene, :
FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK,
IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK!
THUS ONCE JESUS RESTORED BACK HIS ORIGINAL SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY FOR THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, IT WAS MORE THAN HIS PLEASURE TO DIE AS HE KNEW THAT HIS DEATH WOULD BE THE LIFE NOT ACTUALLY FOR HIM AS SUCH,
BUT FOR THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE
HIS OWN KINGDOM,
THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
THE FACT THAT HE PRE-EXISTED AND WAS
THE TRUTH
JESUS CHRIST
GOD’S EMBODIMENT BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. Well clear in
Ephesians 1:3Blessed by the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us
WITH SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS in heavenly places, in
Christ.
(Jesus Christ pre-existed even before the world was asserted in the next verse)
4As he chose us
(ALL EMBODIED) IN HIM
before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and unspotted in his sight in charity.
5Who hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children through
Jesus Christ unto HIMSELF: according to the purpose of his will:
6Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath graced us
(ALL EMBODIED)
IN HIS BELOVED SON.
Well asserted and clear in
1 Peter 3:18 ABOVE!
YOU: So please show us where Jesus is transformed into a Spirit being,
I would like to see that,
ME: BUT YOU WILL NEVER SEE IT Gene, for God’ sake unless you
BE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT! Nevertheless, read
the last bit of Luke 13:33 WHICH IS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO
THE SPIRITUALIZATION OF JESUS’FLESH BODY! BY WHICH TASK HUMANITY ACQUIRED ALSO THE SPIRITUALIZATION OF THEIR FLESH BODY, EVEN WHILE ON THIS EARTH OBVIOUS BY JESUS’ GRACE THROUGH FAITH. READ:
33Nevertheless I must walk today and tomorrow, and the day following because
it cannot be that a prophet perishes, out of Jerusalem.
Gene, PLEASE, I KNOW IT IS MORE THAN DIFFICULT FOR YOU SINCE YOU ARE MORE CARNALLY MINDED IN YOU REASONING, AND COMPLETELY IGNORE
THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF JESUS,
“THE WORD” SPIRIT MADE FLESH.
WHICH WAS THE MOST VITAL FOR THE HUMAN RACE IN SATANIC MORTAL FLESH!
BUT STILL, REFLECT ON THE ABOVE VERSE!
JESUS SAID THAT
it cannot be that a prophet perishes,
out of Jerusalem.
NOW JESUS DIED OUT OF JERUSALEM!
SO WHAT ACTUALLY DID JESUS REVEAL???
NOW “A PROPHET” IS A REFERENCE TO JESUS, SIMPLY AS ALL PROPHETS DIED PRECISELY IN
JERUSALEM!
CONFIRMED BY JESUS IN THE FOLLOWING VERSE:
34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent to thee, how often would I have gathered thy children as the bird doth her brood under her wings, and thou wouldest not?
NOW “JERUSALEM” IS A REFERENCE TO THE HUMAN FLESH BODY!
ESTABLISHED ON EVE’S SIN, THE FACT THAT JESUS REFERRED TO IT AS
THE FEMALE IN HIS WORDS;
thy children as the bird doth her brood under her wings,
WHICH IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO LUCIFER,/SATAN THE FEMALE ASPECT OF THE PROCESS OF THE HUMAN RACE OF THIS WORLD, ESTABLISHED ON EVE’S SIN!
WHERE GOD BECAME THE MALE ASPECT OF IT IN JESUS’SPIRIT,
THE FACT THAT JESUS HIMSELF IS
THE SON OF MAN AND HIS APOSTLES WERE ALL MEN!
THIS IS ALSO PINPOINTED OUT BY PAUL IN
1Timothy2:11Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed; then Eve. 14And Adam was not seduced, but the woman being seduced was in the transgression.
NOW JESUS IS PRECISELY
THE NEW FLESH BODY BUT
SPIRITUAL! GOD’S
THE NEW JERUSALEM, THE BRIDE!
Declared by John in
John 3:29 He that hath the bride, is the bridegroom: …..
YOU: You say the word Angel means a messenger, while I do agree with that, but there are scriptures , that I produced that say God did not subject the world to come unto the Angels ,
ME: Hebrews 2:5 For God hath not subjected unto angels the world to come, whereof we speak.
6But one in a certain place hath testified, saying: What is man, that thou art mindful of him: or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
which would negate Jesus from being in it
if he were an angel of any kind. right?
NO Gene, AGAIN YOU ARE COMPLETELY BLIND,
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT AT THE VERY END THERE, WON’T BE ANY ANGELS AS SUCH, BUT ALL HUMANS IN SPIRITUAL FLESH!
THE ANGELS WILL E EMBODIED AS HUMANS! WELL CLEAR IN
1 Cornithians 6:3 Know you not that we shall judge angels ?
how much more things of this world ?
Gene, AT ONE STAGE IN THE BEGINNING JESUS AND SATAN! WERE BOTH THE SAME
ANGEL PRECISELY ONE SPIRIT HIDDEN AND ONE PHYSICAL AS AN ANGEL.
LUCIFER, THE LIGHT/JESUS BEARER HIDDEN IN LUCIFER’S HEART! Well mentioned in
Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;
but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
YOU: Scripture says his soul would not see corruption.
ME: WRONG Gene, READ:
Psalm 16:10 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;
OK THE ABOVE IS A REFERENCE TO DAVID’S SOUL! BUT SINCE
“THE WORD” JESUS’SPIRIT WAS IN DAVID’S SOUL/HEART,
THE MAN AFTER GOD’S OWN HEART,
IT IS ALSO A REFERENCE TO JESUS PRE-EXISTED AS A SPIRIT!
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD REV.13:8
nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.
THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO JESUS’BODY WHO NEVER SAW
CORRUPTION!
YOU: So when did this transfer, between flesh to spirit take place?
OF COURSE, I EXPECT THAT QUESTION FROM YOU, Gene, KNOWING YOUR CARNAL REASONING, READ:
John 13:31-32
AND YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THAT JESUS’FLESH BECAME SPIRIT
ON THE CROSS GENE!
ALSO, THAT’S ONLY BECAUSE YOU IGNORE SCRIPTURES THAT CLEARLY DECLARES THAT
JESUS IS THE SOURCE BY WHOM GOD CREATED ALL CREATURES!
Colossians 1:16 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by him and in him.
17And he is before all, and by him all things consist.
“THE WORD” JESUS IS ENGRAFTED IN YOUR HEART ONE SUBSTANCE, EVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!
James 1:21 Wherefore casting away all uncleanness, and abundance of naughtiness, with meekness receive
the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
YOU: Jesus called himself a “SON OF MAN”. around ‘eighty times” in or scriptures, even saying, “when the son of man comes, will he find faith on the earthly > So it seems from scriptures it a son of “Man” or a Son of Mankind , thats going to return , not a spirit being of any kind .
Gene, YOUR CARNAL REASONING, WHICH IS NOT OF GOD BUT OF THIS WORLD IS OUTRAGEOUS! YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TITLE
SON OF MAN MEANS! WITH EVERY RESPECT!
IF JESUS IS GLORIFIED AND WNT TO HEAVEN AS
THE SON OF MAN
WOULD YOU EXPECT HIM TO COME AGAIN AS
SON OF GOD? THOUGH HE IS?

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

July 12, 2021 at 12:37 pm#871991
Proclaimer
Participant
Gene, was “The Word of the King” in ancient Abyssinia a person or not?
Great question. Did he answer it?
July 12, 2021 at 12:48 pm#871992
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
I still have a hard time to understand the begotten aspect of Jesus.
We both believe that Jesus shares the exact same nature as His Father.
Because He is His only begotten Son.
Well then how can we consider Him to be a lesser god?
Do you have a child, Proclaimer?
If so, then can you honestly say that your child is a lesser human being?
Isn’t that the same thing we do with Jesus?
Do you understand my point?
Great questions Danny and yes I understand your point.
I do not consider Jesus as a lesser god. Yes technically speaking he is not as great as the Father and in a certain sense he is ‘theos’, so you could say that. However, if this was the intended point of the New Testament writers and God who inspired them, then you would see language like, ‘the lesser god Jesus Christ…’.
Or “You are the Son, a lesser god than the Father” – Peter.
Or “The god was born in Bethelem”.
Etc.
But you never see that.
Likewise, I remember reading a scripture that described an earthquake as yahweh. It was meant in the sense that it was a great or greatest earthquake. But I would never call an earthquake Yahweh in the sense that that we just got an 8.1 yahweh on the Richter Scale.
I hope you see my point too.
The Word was theos means the Word was divine.
I don’t believe the intended purpose is to go around saying Jesus is a lesser god. Rather, that he came from God. That he is the Son of God. That he is OF God and looks like this invisible Most High God. That he has divine nature the same nature that God has.
Usually when we say ‘a god’, it often means a false god like an idol or even Satan who is a father too. The Father of Lies.
July 12, 2021 at 3:09 pm#871993
gadam123
Participant
The Word was theos means the Word was divine.
I don’t believe the intended purpose is to go around saying Jesus is a lesser god. Rather, that he came from God. That he is the Son of God. That he is OF God and looks like this invisible Most High God. That he has divine nature the same nature that God has.
Usually when we say ‘a god’, it often means a false god like an idol or even Satan who is a father too. The Father of Lies.
This is the problem with the NT and Christianity. It revolves round and round the mulberry bush without coming out clearly that Jesus is God or man. I can see this on all threads of this Forum. You want to ‘kill the snake and also not want to break the stick’ an old saying in India.
The NT writers were all Hellenistic polytheist believing Christians. What can we expect from these writers than a mystifying Jesus the supposed Messiah as divine being who preexisting before his human existence.

July 12, 2021 at 3:35 pm#871996
Proclaimer
Participant
This is the problem with the NT and Christianity. It revolves round and round the mulberry bush without coming out clearly that Jesus is God or man. I can see this on all threads of this Forum. You want to ‘kill the snake and also not want to break the stick’ an old saying in India.
Its real simple gadam. People read a book written in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and frame it in their language and culture.
It is not the message that is confusing but people’s understanding. That said, I believe God rewards truth seekers with understanding while leaving those who do not love truth in the dark. Then those in darkness impose that darkness on the light that they cannot see.
When you see the light it is amazing to watch many stumbling around in the darkness. But then I am reminded that I was once an Athiest who stumbled from one obstacle to another.
July 12, 2021 at 3:37 pm#871997
Proclaimer
Participant
The NT writers were all Hellenistic polytheist believing Christians. What can we expect from these writers than a mystifying Jesus the supposed Messiah as divine being who preexisting before his human existence.
You lose credibility every time you make an ignorant statement like that.
July 12, 2021 at 3:41 pm#871998
Lightenup
Participant
Hi Adam why do you post in topics in the “Believer’s Place” if you do not believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus? I’m not saying you shouldn’t post but that is what the skeptics place is for, right?
Admin, what are your thoughts?
July 12, 2021 at 3:56 pm#872000
gadam123
Participant
Hi Adam,
You: It’s quite interesting to see that a non-trinitarians can say Amen to a Trinitarian’s post.
Me: I’m not a Trinitarian.
I haven’t made up my mind yet. I’m still learning.
All I’m sure of and what I believe is that Yahweh is the Most High God.
And Jesus Christ is His beloved Son.
Hi Danny, it is good to know that you are not full pledged Trinitarian so far. In the Hebrew Bible ‘son of God’ never meant a literal divine being as imagined by the NT writers. Israel was called the first born son of God as per Ex 4:22 and King David’s son called ‘son of God’ as per 2 Sam 7:14 but they never meant as literal sons of God as misinterpreted by the Christianity.
July 12, 2021 at 4:58 pm#872002
gadam123
Participant
Hi Adam why do you post in topics in the “Believer’s Place” if you do not believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus? I’m not saying you shouldn’t post but that is what the skeptics place is for, right?
Hi Sis Kathi (hope you don’t mistake me), I also believe quite a lot of stuff as a Christian but I don’t want to insist them on others. Yes you can call me a Skeptic as I had already been labelled once on this Forum earlier. I can call every one here a Skeptic as they too negate others views and comment on the scriptures.
I am only investigating the great claims of the NT writers who had claimed to have interpreted the Hebrew Bible on Jesus the supposed Messiah but I find lot of holes in their interpretations when compared to the Hebrew Bible.
OK I will restrict my posts to the Skeptics threads as advised by you.
Thanks and peace to you……Adam
July 12, 2021 at 6:12 pm#872006
Lightenup
Participant
Adam,
You said: I also believe quite a lot of stuff as a Christian…
The “Believer’s” section is for those who believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah. Everybody here believes that except you and therefore everyone else here can post in the “Believer’s” section from what I understand. You however, don’t believe that Jesus is the Messiah, nor do you believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Am I misunderstanding you?
If you indeed believe those things then you can post here in the believer’s section. You seem to deny those things though. I would love to know what Christian beliefs you say that you agree with.
July 12, 2021 at 9:40 pm#872014
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi Danny, it is good to know that you are not full pledged Trinitarian so far. In the Hebrew Bible ‘son of God’ never meant a literal divine being as imagined by the NT writers. Israel was called the first born son of God as per Ex 4:22 and King David’s son called ‘son of God’ as per 2 Sam 7:14 but they never meant as literal sons of God as misinterpreted by the Christianity.
Except of course that in every day life, a son usually inherits the nature of his father or parents. Biology teaches you that.
And at a human level and in the Jewish culture, this is but a model of something higher. For example, water is like spirit. Eden is like Heaven. And so it is that an earthly son is representing something in the higher realm, the Son of God.
But you are stuck with the carnal and cannot imagine the spiritual. But the natural is there to teach you of the spiritual.
You are in preschool and looking at a university text book and saying “hey, this stuff is not in my children’s book”.
Might be time to grow up or at least think critically about the Old Testament and its purpose. It teaches us about a Holy God and a sinful race. It teaches us about a nation that God chose. Do you really believe that is the be all and end all? No, the messiah is the answer to a Holy God having perfect relationship with sinful man. God showed us the problem in the Old Testament and the solution in the new. Now we are patiently waiting the return of the messiah as the reigning king.
July 12, 2021 at 9:57 pm#872016
Admin
Keymaster
Hi Adam why do you post in topics in the “Believer’s Place” if you do not believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus? I’m not saying you shouldn’t post but that is what the skeptics place is for, right?
Admin, what are your thoughts?
I do not have a problem with gadam posting here because he usually sticks to the topic, doesn’t flood the forums, and doesn’t steer every topic into ‘there is no God’. For such is the reason why the Skeptics Forum was created. Remember @Stu, he did those things and it was necessary to restrict him to topics dedicated for Skeptics.
Since this forum changed platforms, it doesn’t have the feature to restrict any member to any forum and so far that has not been needed.
July 13, 2021 at 3:01 am#872024
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike or Proclaimer……you ask me the question, “do you believe the kings spokesman was was actually the kings own word, my answer is, absolutely not, No matter what the king said, he was called that, because he told the people what the king said to tell them. The kings word went to the servant, and the servant told the people, exact the same as any prophet of God did, and that includes “Jesus” .
Heb 1;1….. God who at sundry times and diverse manners “SPAKE” in times past unto our fathers by the prophets, (2), has in these last days “SPOKEN” unto us by a Son.
please show how “God spoke ” any differently, through the prophets, then he Spoke “through” the man Jesus? A Son.
That is your first challenge, is to show how was there a difference in how God “spoke” through the other prophets, making Jesus himself “God’s ” own word “himself and the rest not?”. , and if we assume he was indeed Gods own words, then we should also assume all the other ‘prophets were also’, right?
peace and love to you and yours………gene
July 13, 2021 at 4:26 am#872025
gadam123
Participant
I do not have a problem with gadam posting here because he usually sticks to the topic, doesn’t flood the forums, and doesn’t steer every topic into ‘there is no God’. For such is the reason why the Skeptics Forum was created. Remember @Stu, he did those things and it was necessary to restrict him to topics dedicated for Skeptics.
Thank you so much for such understanding on me. I will try to restrict my self as advised by you and Kathi.
Author
Posts

Viewing 20 posts - 22,581 through 22,600 (of 25,929 total)

←1 2 3…1,1291,1301,131…1,295 1,296 1,297 →

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

GODMAN!

Jesus stood in the midst of them,

as you see me to have.

WAS MADE FLESH

THE NEW JERUSALEM!

Matthew 17:2And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow.

THE SON OF MAN

to change into another form

was resplendent with a divine brightness, Matthew 17:2;

A DIVINE BRIGHTNESS:

Definition of divine(Entry 1 of 3)1 religion: of, relating to or proceeding directly from God.

29And they rose up and thrust him out of the city;

cast him down headlong.

NOW READ WHAT DID OCCUR!

30But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.

pass through the midst of them,

and went his way, DESPITE

JESUS WITHIN HIMSELF SIMPLY SAID NO NOT YET,

IT IS MY LIFE AND NO ONE WILL TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME, BUT I WILL LAY IT DOWN MYSELF WHEN IT PLEASES ME!

and the third day

I am consummated.

SPIRITUAL LIFE

but enlivened in the spirit,

HIS OWN KINGDOM,

THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

THE TRUTH

JESUS CHRIST

4As he chose us

(ALL EMBODIED) IN HIM

before the foundation of the world,

(ALL EMBODIED)

IN HIS BELOVED SON.

it cannot be that a prophet perishes, out of Jerusalem.

“THE WORD” SPIRIT MADE FLESH.

it cannot be that a prophet perishes,

out of Jerusalem.

SPIRITUAL! GOD’S

THE NEW JERUSALEM, THE BRIDE!

John 3:29 He that hath the bride, is the bridegroom: …..

1 Cornithians 6:3 Know you not that we shall judge angels ?

but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

ON THE CROSS GENE!

all things were created by him and in him.

17And he is before all, and by him all things consist.

the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

THE SON OF MAN

Recent Replies

Forums

Forum Topics

POPULAR WRITINGS

Study Tools

ABOUT THIS SITE

TOPICS

Navigation

Log in with your credentials

Forgot your details?

Create Account

Definition of divine
(Entry 1 of 3)
1 religion: of, relating to or proceeding directly from God.