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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • March 29, 2021 at 9:59 am#869992
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    Carmel……pure blasphemy, The Father does not “obey” the son,  but the Son obeys the Father,  if you don’t understand that it is completely useless to even speak to you about this subject.

    ME: Gene, your own perception is futile, since you accept Jesus ONLY AS  A HUMAN. I produced genuine scripture which clearly shows that the Father obeys Jesus. OBVIOUS IF YOU READ PROPERLY THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED, THEY ARE NOT REFERRING TO JESUS WHEN

     HE WAS ON EARTH AS A HUMAN BEING AND THE CARRIER OF GOD THE FATHER, BUT WELL EVIDENT 

    AFTER JESUS GLORIFIED AND HE IS THE HIGHEST AND IN ABSOLUTE COMMAND OVERALL,

    ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER! 

    IF YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?

    Read again your CORRUPTED scripture, simply to quench your thirst.

    YOU: JESUS PLAINLY SAID ,

    John 10:29,  ” my Father which gave them me, is “GREATER” than “ALL”. , AND NO MAN is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand.

    Seems Jesus has a complete different view of who is the greatest in power, then you do.

    Now read the genuine scriptures I posted:

    ……no man shall pluck them out of

    MY HAND.

    29That which my Father HATH GIVEN ME, IS GREATER THAN ALL:

    In the above Gene, Jesus confirmed that WHAT THE FATHER HAS GIVEN HIM IS

    GREATER THAN ALL. Which is the opposite to what you posted hereunder:

    YOU:” my Father which gave them me, is “GREATER” than “ALL”. ,

    ANSWER Gene, WHAT  HAS THE FATHER GIVEN TO JESUS, BEFORE HE SENT HIM TO ACCOMPLISH HIS TASK OF REDEMPTION, AND REVEALS THE FATHER! A TASK THE FATHER COULD NEVER ACHIEVE ALL BY HIMSELF?

    Now read what the Father has given Jesus:

    and no one can snatch them out of 

    THE HAND of my Father.

    OK, Gene?  GOD THE FATHER HAS GIVEN JESUS THE EQUIVALENT POWER OF

    GOD’S HAND!

    THE FATHER’S AND JESUS’ HANDS ARE ONE!

    Asserted hereunder:

    30I and the Father are one.

    THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD!

    OBVIOUS JESUS PRE-EXISTED BEFORE THE WORLD WAS AS THE FIRST EMBODIMENT OF GOD, IN THE ONENESS OF THE FATHER. John1:1, Colossians 1:17.

    HE EMPTIED HIMSELF AND BECAME HUMAN, BUT HE NEVER LOST ANYTHING HE POSSESSED PRIOR CREATION.

    Also made clear by Jesus in

    John17:10 And all my (HUMAN) things are thine, and thine (DIVINE) are mine;

    and I am glorified in THEM.

    JESUS CHRIST, ORIGINALLY UNKNOWN BEFORE CREATION, THE PHYSICAL IMAGE OF GOD,

    IS OFFICIALLY ON EARTH, UNDER EARTH,  AND IN HEAVEN THE UNIQUE DIVINE/HUMAN BEING WHO OWNS, EVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS: 

    A SPIRITUAL FLESH  BODY AT HIS DISPOSITION AS HE SEES FIT. 

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    March 29, 2021 at 4:57 pm#869993
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    You said:

    The Apostles in Acts 4 identified Jesus as the holy servant of the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.

    Jesus is the holy servant of YHVH. Like a church, a missionary is one who is sent by the church, who does the work of the church in a distant land and is also very much part of that church. Jesus is part of the Unity of YHVH, a missionary is part of the unity of a church. The Unity of YHVH alone created the heavens and the earth.

    The Father identified someone OTHER THAN HIMSELF in Hebrews 1 as the LORD who:

    “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
    And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
    11They will perish, but You remain;
    And they will all grow old like a garment;
    12Like a cloak You will fold them up,
    And they will be changed.
    But You are the same,
    And Your years will not fail.”

    The Father was speaking about the Son there.

     

    March 29, 2021 at 8:18 pm#869995
    Berean
    Participant

    Amen LU

    The Father was speaking about the Son

    March 29, 2021 at 11:28 pm#869997
    Ed J
    Participant

    Ed, is it possible that this “light” that came into the world was Jesus?

    Of course MIke!

    “And he (YeHoVaH) said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee (Jesus) for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.” (Isaiah 49:6)

    ____________
    God bless you brother
    Ed J

    March 29, 2021 at 11:30 pm#869998
    Ed J
    Participant

    YA-shu-a means:
    YAH is Salvation

    “The Savior”=117
    ……….is
    “God The Father”=117

    Jesus was resurrected on Nisan 17 (117)

    March 30, 2021 at 4:03 am#869999
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..The only one that is futilely corrupting scriptures here is you.  I quoted the scripture exactly as it is written,  no matter how you try to twist our scriptures to meet your corruptions, while it might work on the blind and gullible, it won’t work on those who ave the spirit of truth “in” them. So twist and turn our scriptures all you want to try to satisfy your twisted views , “it simply will not work on those who have the truth of God  abiding “in” them”.  

    Anyone who reads John 10: 28-29…..and doesn’t know Jesus was SAYING,  God the Father is “GREATER” greater the him is, completely ignorant of scriptural truth. IMO

    Here is another scripture you can corrupt to meet your false teachings.

    John  8:29….”and he that sent me is with me: the father has not left me alone, for (because) I do “always those things that please “HIM” 

    JESUS WAS AND ALWAY WILL BE SUB-SERVANT TO GOD HIS AND OUR FATHER.

    Anyone who doesn’t know that, hasn’t even started to even come close to understanding , the truth, but are corrupters of the truth. And will pay the price for it, in the end. Repent Carmel, if you can.

    peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    March 30, 2021 at 6:37 am#870001
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @carmel

    Carmel you said:
    “NO FATHER NO JESUS
    NO JESUS NO FATHER!”

    That’s exactly what it’s all about.
    We need BOTH the Father and the Son.

    God bless,

    Danny

    March 31, 2021 at 3:54 am#870006
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Danny…..Carmel was not talking about what we “need” to be saved,  he was saying that there is no God the Father without Jesus. That simply is not true, God the Father always existed, Jesus did not always exist. You switched subject matter without even knowing it. . the truth is there would be not Jesus Christ without God the Father. But he was saying there could be no Father without Jesus,  wake up Danny !

    peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    March 31, 2021 at 9:44 am#870009
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

    ME: Mike ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE, 

    The servant is equal to the Lord, and he that is sent is equal to him that sent him.

    NOW READ HEREUNDER Mike:

    Matthew 10: 24The disciple is not above the master, nor the servant above his lord.

    25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord…..

     

    John5:17 But Jesus answered them:

    My Father worketh UNTILL NOW;

    and I WORK.

    WHAT THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE SAYS?

     

    YOU: In Carmel’s reasoning, if a master gives his servant a gift, the master is all of a sudden the servant’s servant. If he that sent gives the one he sent some shoes for the journey, the sender suddenly becomes the slave of the one he sent. Pure nonsense. 

    Mike, READ, ACCORDING  TO YOU MORE

    PURE NONSENSE:

    Mark 10:43 But it shall not be so among you.

    But whoever would be GREAT among you must be your SERVANT,

    44and whoever would be FIRST among you must be SLAVE of all.

     

     

    Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

     

    March 31, 2021 at 10:03 am#870010
    Berean
    Participant

    But he was saying there could be no Father without Jesus,  wake up Danny ! 

    Gene

    I will say that the Father ALWAYS needed HIS SINGLE BEGOTTEN SON
    : FOR THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE
    FOR THE REDEMPTION OF HUMANITY
    FOR JUDGMENT
    IT IS A WHOLE AND IT IS THE PURPOSE THAT MUST HAVE IN SIGHT, IT IS THAT GOD BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE THE WHOLE UNIVERSE.

    Romans 3: 4
    God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

     

    March 31, 2021 at 10:49 am#870011
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Berean,

    You said:

    Amen LU

    The Father was speaking about the Son

    Yes Berean, thank you!

    March 31, 2021 at 10:50 am#870012
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Danny Dabbs,

    You said: We need BOTH the Father and the Son.

    Absolutely!

    April 1, 2021 at 4:05 am#870017
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Lu….were not talking about “US” , we were talking about God the Father, He didn’t need us or Jesus, or anything, He created them all,, why? “FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE”, we they created” , and that includes even Jesus.

    Jesus said this, ” he always did those thing that pleased the Father,  and that was why the Father loved him”.  No where dose any scripture say that God the Father “always did” what pleased Jesus , where is that scripture at?  Trying to make Jesus equal to God the Father , is pure blasphemy against the Spirit, and will not be forgiven, not now or in the future , “the fear of GOD IS NOT IN YOU PEOPLE”,  You make Jesus Your God, and say you follow him, but Jesus himself said , “don’t fear them that can kill the body and after that can do nothing else, but “fear him” that can destroy both body and soul in hell (grave) ,  that is GOD the Father.   Be carefully on what you are saying , Jesus Christ is a obedient Son of God just like we need to be.

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    April 1, 2021 at 4:39 am#870018
    Berean
    Participant

    PRAYING TO CHRIST THE SON OF GOD.
    ———————— ——————————-

    It Is very sad many are ignorantly denying God and His Son by forbiding people that they must not PRAY to Christ.

    Bible Is clear , Christ is God , Being the only Begotten Son of God, He is OUR GOD and Savior.
    Loving God whom we can pray too, and He will hear us.

    Is It Biblical to Pray to Jesus?

    Many says no. But I say YES.
    IT IS BIBLICAL.

    Proofs?

    1Corinthians 1
    2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth , to them that are Sanctified in Christ Jesus,called to be saints , with all that in every place CALL UPON THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD , BOTH THEIR’S and OURS.

    **To “call upon the name of the Lord, is to pray to, invoking God’s name in a prayer, . So Paul is saying that the Brethen CALL UPON the name of Jesus , which means they pray to Jesus, crying to Jesus for help >>

    Inorder to establish this fact, Let us look it up in the old Testament

    2 Samuel 22
    7 in my distress I CALLED UPON the Lord , and cried to my GOD, and he did hear my voice out of His Temple and my CRY did enter into His EARS.

    PSalm 99:6
    Moses and Aaron among his priests and Samuel among that CALL UPON HIS NAME; THEY CALLED UPON THE LORD AND HE ANSWERED THEM.

    << As clear as it can be, to Call UPon the name of the Lord, Is to pray to God,by calling His name.>>

    👇👇

    Psalm 116
    13 Then CALLED I UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD; O LORD, I BESEECH THEE, DELIVER MY SOUL .

    << Psalm 116, David gives a good example on how to call upon the Lord, He clearly states that He called upon the name of the Lord SAYING; O LORD I BESEECH THEE, DELIVER MY SOUL.

    << LIKEWISE, WE MAY ALSO CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS , BY SAYING ” DEAR JESUS ,I BESSEECH THEE , SAVE MY SOUL.

    compare

    Romans 10
    13 for whatsoever SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved.

    1 Corinthians 1
    2….saints which CALL UPON THE NAME OF CHRIST JESUS.

    Additionally , Stephen PRAYED DIRECTLY TO CHRIST.
    👇👇
    Acts 7
    59 And 60

    By Henly Thierry Irishura

    April 1, 2021 at 6:34 am#870020
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Your getting THE LORD (the word atonai) which means,  “ALMIGHTY GOD” whose name is “Yehovah,    mixed up with the word lord (atoni),   which means “any”  human ruler.
    Jesus told us to pray to his God and our God, the FATHER, JUST AS HE DID ALSO.  YOU people constantly try to make Jesus bigger then God the father himself , something Jesus never did, He taught us to pray like this,  “our” Father who art in heaven” thy kingdom come “thy” “Will” Be done. 

    Now you come alone and say pray to Jesus , completely ignoring, God the Father, who Jesus told us to pray to.

    Jesus also said this , how much more will The Father given them his Spirit that ask for it,  No wonder you people are so blind,  trying to make Jesus your God, is exactly what the “real” Jesus would never tell us to do.  That is exactly why you can’t Spiritually mature ,  We  must follow Jesus and do what he did, which always  “pleased” the Father.   Pushing Jesus to be “equal” with God the Father is a sin, because it is Idolatry.
    scripture tell us,  “there is but “one” God and one mediator between God and men, the “MAN” JESUS, the anointed one.

    Berean even a novice should understand that. Your not letting the “SUM” of scripture guide  you’re thoughts,  Your letting false religious views , you have gotten from false religious organizations guide  you thinking. Unless you come out of that,  and  start to seek the truth by knocking, seeking  and asking God the Father yourself  ,  you will,  along with the rest of those false teachers parish also with them.
    Remember what it says< “come out of her my people , that you receive not of her plagues “. The plague will be rejection, unless we come to  repent. Never turn the man Jesus into your God.  2ths2.

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

     

    April 1, 2021 at 7:38 am#870022
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Gene……

    If Stephen prayed to Jesus just before giving up the ghost(Acts 7:59,60) it is because Jesus hears the prayers, and if He hears the prayers, it is because He is GOD.

    If he was just a man, he could not hear  the prayers OF HIS children …

     

    THIS IS not idolatry for me To pray Jesus

    The BIBLE DON’T TEACH THAT But UNITARIANS anti deity of Christ…

     

     

    April 1, 2021 at 7:49 am#870023
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    If you knew for sure that these words were said about the Son, would your doctrine change?

    Psalm 102

    24I say, “O my God (the Son), do not take me away in the midst of my days,
    Your years (the Son’ years) are throughout all generations.

    25“Of old You (the Son) founded the earth,
    And the heavens are the work of Your hands (the Son’ hands).

    26“Even they will perish, but You (the Son) endure;
    And all of them will wear out like a garment;
    Like clothing You (the Son) will change them and they will be changed.

    27“But You (the Son) are the same,
    And Your years (the Son’s years) will not come to an end.

    God bless, LU

    April 1, 2021 at 7:51 am#870024
    Berean
    Participant

    A ONLY HUMAN mediator who does not hear prayers cannot BE A TRUE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN …

    April 2, 2021 at 3:29 am#870031
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Lu……Yes i would , but there are so many that say the opposite, even Jesus’ very own words he said himself. Which by the way you people act as if they were not even in our bibles, scriptures that Jodi, I, Mike, Proclaimer,  as well as others over the years have produce , which you people continually  ignore , scriptures written clearly,  scriptures we don’t have to change wording or add words or our own thoughts to,  to make them fit our teachings.

    You people simple do not have the “fear of God” , in you, or you would not believe Jesus is or ever was a God.   Jesus told us clearly, that the great confusion or deception of the , “many”  would be about who he was. That great deception is the deception of ,“taking a human “man” , Jesus, and turning him into a God. 2ths2. That is exactly what Satan wants you to do, and you people are doing it.  “REPENT”. 

    peace and love to you and yours…………gene

     

     

    April 2, 2021 at 6:46 am#870034
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @Jodi

    Hi Jodi,

    Ok, maybe I was a bit awkward.
    I’m sorry.
    I will address your specific question.
    (Please read the whole post. It’s not that much but very important)
    I will go straight to the key verses.

    Romans 5:12 Therefore, as sin entered into the world through ONE MAN, and death through sin, so
    death passed to all men because all sinned.

    Romans 5:15
    But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of THE ONE the many died, much
    more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the ONE MAN, JESUS CHRIST, abound to
    the many.

    ONE MAN brought Sin into the world.
    The other ONE MAN JESUS CHRIST brought righteousness, forgiveness and reconciliation.

    Why?
    Romans 5:19 brings it to the point:
    For as through the ONE MAN’S DISOBEDIENCE many were made sinners, even so through
    the OBEDIENCE of THE ONE, many will be made righteous.

    An obedient second Adam was needed to bring us out of the mess.
    Jesus was in fact that obedient second Adam!
    Obedient even to the point of death – the horrible death of the cross!

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