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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • March 16, 2021 at 7:52 am#869756
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Danny Dabbs,

    Good response to Gene.

    Keep it up 🙂

    LU

    March 16, 2021 at 7:53 am#869757
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    Please answer this question as directly as you can and be as brief as you can.

    Do you actually believe that the Heavenly Father had intercourse with Mary to produce a son?

    LU

    March 16, 2021 at 8:08 am#869758
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Thanks, LU

    March 16, 2021 at 5:15 pm#869764
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Paul in Colossians 1 speaks in two instances of just ONE specific Creation, that of the new heaven and earth. Paul leads up to these two instances of this Creation prior in verse 5,” For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;” and in verses 12-13, “12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:”

    Our hope is for the Eternal Creation to which Jesus was firstborn of, where he rules in that Creation as a King of kings sitting on his father David’s throne according to the flesh (Acts 2:30)

    And we read in verse 20 of Colossians 1, “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Here we have Paul yet again providing context to his declaration of Jesus being a firstborn of the Eternal Creation (the new heaven and earth). That reconciliation speaks to what Paul spoke of earlier, without that reconciliation there is no hope, without it we are not translated into the kingdom of the Son. Without it we would have never been created in the first place. After Jesus shed his blood he was raised firstborn of the Eternal Creation, which is exactly what Paul speaks to prior to verse 20. Raised an ETERNAL Son, no longer to return to corruption being given the sure mercies of David (Acts 13:34) he is the image of the invisible ETERNAL God, the firstborn eternal Son over all of the ETERNAL Creation.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (Paliggenesia –New Birth) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Such is the End that God had declared from the beginning where if it were not for the coming forth of this Creation there would have never been the first creation.  God from the beginning made the coming of this Eternal Creation dependent upon one man who would be raised up in righteousness and have God direct all of his ways (Isaiah 45:13 46:10-11). Not only was everything made that was made done by reason of Jesus but for Jesus, as he is the promised Son of David who would be settled into God’s house and be given an eternal throne according to God’s WORD.  

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. 15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

    LU, Jesus is that son of David where he not only didn’t exist as a son of David yet, he neither existed as God’s Son yet or dwelled in God’s house yet. He didn’t exist other than in the WORD OF GOD that GOD DECLARED IN THE BEGINNING alongside God’s WORD of Eternal Life. 

    March 17, 2021 at 3:54 am#869766
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Danny……the word “before”, Used there, meant Jesus was “greater” in importance then Abraham was.  The Jews were always using their connection with Abraham as their highest connection with God,  but Jesus was telling that he was good “greater” importance to them then ABRAHAM WAS. 

    John the Baptist told them basically the same thing , telling them that GOD could raise up these stones for children of Abraham, if he wanted to.
    Jesus was not saying that he was alive before Abraham was , in he said Abraham looked “forward unto” his day and saw it and was glad.
    I will say it again not one scripture says Jesus actually existed before his birth on this earth, nor not one shows any “activity” of him Pryor to his birth on this earth, not even one. Forcing our text to say what they “specifically do not say or adding words to make it come out different is not good scholarship. IMO. 

    Peace and love to you and yours…………gene

    March 17, 2021 at 4:03 am#869767
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Lu,  I believe what scripture says , the Spirit of God overshadowed her and he placed or deposited the DNA or Sperm from the loins of king David into her womb.  Do I believe God had a “physical relationship with her? No I don’t because God is Spirit, he is not physical, but do I believe he did cause her to become pregnant with the Sperm of a descendant of king David , I certainly do believe that. scripture backs that up in many places, even Jodies above post backs it up.

    Peace and love to you and yours…………gene

    March 17, 2021 at 6:09 am#869769
    Jodi
    Participant

    To All

    The word of YHVH was of the coming of an anointed man sent out to be a savior where he would bring forth unto his brethren eternal life into a new and eternal heaven and earth. A man to come who would be raised up among his people as a prophet like that of Moses, but whoever did not hear the word of YHVH  to which YHVH gave him to speak, would be destroyed.

    YHVH declared from the beginning of a creation that would cease to exist, a man who would fulfill His purpose for mankind.  That man would be raised up in righteousness to have YHVH direct all his ways, where he would be led to die on a cross. That death would bring forth reconciliation for the purpose of a regeneration (new birth) into an eternal new heaven and earth. Without this man nothing would have been made that was made, all things were made by reason of him and for him, where in him YHVH had all things consist and was held together. By reason of him, because he would bring forth a reconciliation unto a New Creation. For him, because he would be the firstborn over all of it where he then reigns as a King of kings.   

    A man promised to come, a man that did come, a man that shed his blood and died, a man raised from the dead giving us hope to our own resurrection, a man ascending to sit at YHVH’s right hand, a man returning to sit on an eternal throne according to the flesh.

    Before Abraham, before Moses, before David, before John the Baptist even existed they were marked out as saved through the coming anointed Jesus, who said ” I AM the resurrection and the life“.

    Before they all existed, a man’s death on the cross that saves us was according to YHVH’s predetermined purpose and foreknowledge. In the life, they have life because of him, In the life he is before them as a firstborn overall of an eternal creation. In the life he is before them as being head over them all as their eternal King and Master. 

    March 17, 2021 at 6:27 am#869770
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU and All,

    When was Jesus sent and thus when was his coming,

    Scripture speaks to the sending/coming of Jesus anointed and we are directly told that the sending/coming occurred after the baptism John preached Acts 13:24, as well as upon him receiving of the Spirit without measure Luke 4:18, John 3:34 (fulfillment of God’s promise given by Isaiah unto a future son of Jesse).

    Likewise Jesus compares his sending to that of the disciples. We read in John 17:18 that just as Jesus was sent into the world to do God’s work, they were sent into the world. Jesus received the Spirit and was sent and they received the Spirit (by measure) and were sent.

    Furthermore, Jesus says just prior John 17:16 “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” If you are not of the world and you are being sent into the world by the will of God, you’re coming down from heaven. Before Jesus said these things in chapter 17 he and John indeed taught prior that he came down from heaven.

    It is also good to note that the word God and Heaven can be and are used interchangeably, for instance the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are speaking to the very same kingdom. Likewise, “coming down from heaven” can mean the same as coming from God. Here is another example where “from heaven” directly represents “from God”, John 3: 27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

    We then read John say in verse 30, “He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all…. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    The word of God of a coming anointed savior, came down from heaven and was given to the prophets. The fulfillment of that word also came down from heaven when Jesus was anointed of the Spirit without measure, who was then sent out into the world being directed in all ways from heaven. Jesus was coming to the people from heaven, directly from God!

    March 17, 2021 at 6:34 am#869771
    Jodi
    Participant

    The Anointed Savior came in the flesh

    Christ/Chrisos means anointed. We are directly told that Jesus of Nazareth a man of flesh had the Spirit come to abode upon him where Jesus says this is an anointing (Chrio- to anoint) where he is being sent to do God’s work.  THIS IS thus Jesus anointed (Christos) coming in the flesh (such is God’s word of prophecy made true in the flesh.

    March 17, 2021 at 7:05 am#869772
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

     

    That speeches to finally deny the divinity of Christ and therefore his preexistence … and his true right to be the Messiah Messiah……

    March 17, 2021 at 7:06 am#869773
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @genebalthrop

    Danny……the word “before”, Used there, meant Jesus was “greater” in importance then Abraham was.

    That’s not true.
    The word “before” in John 8:58 is Strong’s Greek: 4250. πρίν (prin) — 13 Occurrences

    Matthew 1:18 Adv
    GRK: τῷ Ἰωσήφ πρὶν ἢ συνελθεῖν
    NAS: to Joseph, before they came together
    KJV: to Joseph, before they
    INT: to Joseph before rather came together

    Matthew 26:34 Adv
    GRK: τῇ νυκτὶ πρὶν ἀλέκτορα φωνῆσαι
    NAS: [very] night, before a rooster
    KJV: this night, before the cock crow,
    INT: night before [the] rooster crows

    Matthew 26:75 Adv
    GRK: εἰρηκότος ὅτι Πρὶν ἀλέκτορα φωνῆσαι
    NAS: had said, Before a rooster
    INT: who had said Before [the] rooster crows

    Mark 14:30 Adv
    GRK: τῇ νυκτὶ πρὶν ἢ δὶς
    NAS: very night, before a rooster crows
    KJV: this night, before the cock crow
    INT: night before that twice

    Mark 14:72 Adv
    GRK: Ἰησοῦς ὅτι Πρὶν ἀλέκτορα δὶς
    NAS: the remark to him, Before a rooster
    KJV: unto him, Before the cock crow
    INT: Jesus Before [the] rooster twice

    Luke 2:26 Adv
    GRK: ἰδεῖν θάνατον πρὶν ἢ ἂν
    NAS: death before he had seen
    KJV: death, before he had seen
    INT: he should see death before that anyhow

    Luke 22:61 Adv
    GRK: αὐτῷ ὅτι Πρὶν ἀλέκτορα φωνῆσαι
    NAS: He had told him, Before a rooster
    INT: to him Before [the] rooster crows

    John 4:49 Adv
    GRK: Κύριε κατάβηθι πρὶν ἀποθανεῖν τὸ
    NAS: come down before my child
    KJV: Sir, come down ere my child
    INT: Sir come down before dies the

    John 8:58 Adv
    GRK: λέγω ὑμῖν πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι
    NAS: I say to you, before Abraham
    KJV: I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
    INT: I say to you Before Abraham was

    John 14:29 Adv
    GRK: εἴρηκα ὑμῖν πρὶν γενέσθαι ἵνα
    NAS: I have told you before it happens,
    KJV: you before it come to pass,
    INT: I have told you before it comes to pass that

    Acts 2:20 Adv
    GRK: εἰς αἷμα πρὶν ἐλθεῖν ἡμέραν
    NAS: INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT
    INT: into blood before come [the] day

    Acts 7:2 Adv
    GRK: τῇ Μεσοποταμίᾳ πρὶν ἢ κατοικῆσαι
    NAS: when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived
    KJV: in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt
    INT: Mesopotamia before than dwelt

    Acts 25:16 Adv
    GRK: τινα ἄνθρωπον πρὶν ἢ ὁ
    NAS: over any man before the accused meets
    KJV: die, before that
    INT: any man before that the [one]

     

    March 17, 2021 at 7:07 am#869774
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    You said:

    Do I believe God had a “physical relationship with her? No I don’t because God is Spirit, he is not physical, but do I believe he did cause her to become pregnant with the Sperm of a descendant of king David , I certainly do believe that.

    What you are describing would be “artificial insemination.”  I thought Jodi believed that Joseph’s seed got Mary pregnant. I may be wrong but I remember her believing that Joseph begot Jesus, in error.

    Nevertheless, Jesus was the son of David because:

    His mother was a descendant of David and His legal earthly father, Joseph, was a descendant of David.

    Joseph was not his biological father, but Mary was his biological mother according to the flesh.

    The term “overshadow” represents the power of God coming upon her. That word is also found here:

    Acts 5:15 so as to bring forth the ailing into the broad places, and to lay [them] on beds and pallets, that at the coming of Peter, even [his] shadow might overshadow someone of them;…

    Surely you don’t believe that Peter was distributing sperm to them.

    Jesus is the son of Abraham also as a descendant. No where does the Bible say that Abraham or David’s seed directly implanted Mary’s ovum. If a man directly implanted Mary’s ovum, the baby would be born with original sin. Jesus was without sin.

    Blessings, LU

    March 17, 2021 at 7:09 am#869775
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Danny Dabbs,

    Nice presentation to prove that before refers to “time” not importance.

    LU

    March 17, 2021 at 7:21 am#869776
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @Lightenup

    Danny Dabbs,

    Nice presentation to prove that before refers to “time” not importance.

    LU

    That’s right, but they simply can’t accept it because it goes against their doctrine.
    Very sad.

     

    March 17, 2021 at 7:43 am#869777
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    This shows you that Jesus is identified by the Father as YHVH that created the world in the beginning of time:

    Heb 1

    “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,

    AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

    11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;

    AND THEY ALL WILL WEAR OUT LIKE A GARMENT,

    12AND LIKE A ROBE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;

    LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.

    BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,

    AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”

    Blessings, LU

    March 17, 2021 at 9:46 am#869780
    carmel
    Participant

    Berean,

    YOU: That speeches to finally deny the divinity of Christ and therefore his preexistence … and his true right to be the Messiah Messiah……

    ME: WELL SAID!

    I already made this clear well back to Jodi and said that,

    The redemption process is AN ENTIRELY DIVINE INTERVENTION, which means

    GOD ALONE BY HIS OWN GENUINE MAGICAL SPIRITUAL WORK REDEEMED HUMANITY AND NOTHING OF MORTAL CORRUPTED EARTH BY

    “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN! Well declared by Jesus in

    John 8:23 And he said to them: You are from beneath, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world. 

    John 14:30 I will not now speak many things with you.

    For the PRINCE OF THIS WORLD  cometh,

    and HE HATH NOTHING IN ME.

    REFLECT, Jodi and Gene:

    HE HATH NOTHING IN ME.

    What did Jesus mean in the above!

    NO, YOU WON’T ADMIT EVEN IF YOU SEE THE TRUTH, OF WHICH I’M SURE YOU DON’T.

    HEAR THE TRUTH THEN:

    WHO IS THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD REFERRED TO BY JESUS?

    SATAN! NO?

    AND AS THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD, WHAT ACTUALLY ARE THE THINGS SATAN OWNED THROUGH THE SIN IN THE GARDEN,OBVIOUS

    THE SEXUAL REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS IN GENERAL PLUS EVERY FIRSTBORN COMMENCED IN CAIN! NO?

    Now if God had to have A FIRSTBORN throughout Jesus’ genealogy,

    HE PRODUCED IT BY HIS OWN SPIRITUAL INTERVENTION, COMMENCED IN ABEL! OK?

    NOW YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS? NO YOU DON’T I’M AFRAID, WITH EVERY RESPECT!!!

    JESUS WAS BORN A FIRSTBORN, OF A WOMAN, HE HAD A HUMAN FATHER, HE WAS  A SON OF DAVID, A SON OF ABRAHAM,  AND IN HIS GENEALOGY THERE ARE NO LESS

    THAN FOUR CORRUPTED WOMEN!

    NEVERTHELESS, JESUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX, MAN, and WOMAN, IN GENERAL!

    NEVER MIND SPERM, OVUM, DNA, and GOD KNOWS WHAT!

    THAT’S THE ONLY TRUE GOD I BELIEVE IN! Jodi and Gene. 

    YOUR GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE IN IS USELESS!

    Jodi and Gene, GET THIS INTO YOUR CARNAL MIND;

    IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE REDEMPTION PROCESS IS ENTIRELY

    GOD’S INTERVENTION, 

    THE WORLD AND ITS ENTIRE PROCESSES,

    HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH JESUS IN ANY WAY!

    THE FACT THAT:

    OF ALL THE ANOINTED, ONLY JESUS IS CALLED

    THE CHRIST.

    John 4:25  The woman saith to him: I know that the Messias cometh (WHO IS CALLED CHRIST); therefore, when he is come,

    he will tell us all things.

    26Jesus saith to her:

    I am he, who am speaking with thee.

    The fact that

    JESUS OVERRULED ENTIRELY THE WORLD AND ITS ENTIRE PROCESSES.

    John16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence,

    I have overcome the world.

     

    Jodi and  Gene,

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK, and IT IS HIS SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK,

    The fact that the four corrupted women mentioned in Jesus’ genealogy  didn’t effect

    JESUS’ PURITY IN HIS FLESH! clearly asserted in

    1Corinthians 1:29 That NO FLESH should glory in his sight. 

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

     

    March 17, 2021 at 2:35 pm#869781
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: 

    That speeches to finally deny the divinity of Christ and therefore his preexistence … and his true right to be the Messiah Messiah……

    ME: Messiah means anointed and there are more than one Messiah’s in scripture, they were all anointed by the predetermined purpose of our one God the Father YHVH.  Jesus of Nazareth the son of David, was anointed to fulfill YHVH’s purpose for why He ALONE, ALL BY HIMSELF created heaven and earth in the first place. Multiple Messiah’s but only one anointed with the Spirit without measure to save the world!

    Scripture tells us clearly that the divinity of the anointed Jesus is OUR SAME PROMISED DIVINITY.

    Isaiah 61 fulfilled in Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about….18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted…

    Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 

    John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS the Son of God.

    Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having RECEIVED of the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (new birth) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 

    1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 

    AH!!! You see it Berean?!  ONE BODY MADE UP OF MANY MEMBERS REPRESENTS CHRIST in the above passage from Paul. CHRIST doesn’t represent just Jesus, but ALL of THE ANOINTED OF THE SPIRIT represent CHRIST. Along with Jesus we partake of the divine nature when we drink of the ONE SPIRIT of YHVH as he does. We together with him make up ONE BODY, ONE ANOINTED (CHRISTOS) BODY.

    Berean, do I need to break down the direct connections to all these scriptures individually for you, because you speak as though you are completely blind to them all?

     

     

    March 17, 2021 at 3:33 pm#869782
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU:

    What you are describing would be “artificial insemination.” I thought Jodi believed that Joseph’s seed got Mary pregnant. I may be wrong but I remember her believing that Joseph begot Jesus, in error.

    ME: You are actually wrong on what you thought you remembered by belief was.

    I believe that by the power of  YHVH’s Spirit Mary became pregnant with Joseph’s biological son without them having come together.

    I believe this because Matthew tells us he is giving us the GENESIS of Jesus where we then are given the lineage of Abraham to Joseph. Thereafter the lineage (GENEA -men of the same stock/DNA) is condensed to speak of generations to which Joseph is included. Men of the same stock begin from Abraham and go to David and from David unto the carrying away of Babylon and from there unto Christ. The text is clear, very straightforward, that Jesus is a biological son of Abraham and David through Joseph.

     

    March 17, 2021 at 8:59 pm#869783
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    Berean, do I need to break down the direct connections to all these scriptures individually for you, because you speak as though you are completely blind to them all?

     

    Me

    Jesus Christ was GOD BEFORE COVERING OUR HUMANITY AND HIM ALREADY QUALIFIED TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD
    IT IS WRITTEN IN PHILIPIANS 2

    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    WITHOUT IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO BE QUALIFIED TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD …

    BUT AS SAID PREVIOUSLY, THIS IS THE FIRST CONDITION, STEP TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD …

    WITHOUT THIS WE HAVE NO SAVIOR ….

    March 18, 2021 at 4:05 am#869784
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Jodi listed over 20 scriptures that are actually written in scripture,  that support what we both are telling you, you people show only very little scriptures , only the ones you can force texts to say what you want them to say,  even the one you do produce you add to them things they are not even hinting at. Then deny all the scriptures we quote to you that shows your errors, even scriptures Jesus himself said you deny.
    Scriptures like,  “that they might know “you” the “only” true God.,   Tell us why would Jesus ever say that if he were a True God?   Simple question , deserves a simple answer.

    Another simple scripture, what does this mean to you people? “But unto us there is but “ONE” GOD, and “one” mediator between God and men , the “Man” Jesus Christ“.

    You people have taken a “MAN” and turned him into a GOD,  but scripture say “GOD is not a man , that he should lie, nor is he a Son of man that he should repent”.  Jesus said he was a Son of man over 80 times as I recall . Scripture tell us in several places he was from the roots of Jesse and and the root and offspring of King David.  Is that not what Jesus said out of his own mouth ?
    Show one scripture where Jesus’ linage is linked to being the offspring of Any “PREEXISTING ” being before his birth on this earth? 

    Jesus told us to pray like this,  “OUR” Father who art in heaven”,   He included himself also by saying “OUR” , FATHER “.  so what does that tell us, Jesus views his relationship to GOD “EXACTLY” AS WE SHOULD.

    Our God told us “you shall have no other God besides me”. But you have taken the man Jesus And made him your God,  and you worship him as such.  You have turned the “image” of Jesus into a man of sin,  how?, by making him out to be a God, which breaks “the “ONLY” TRUE GOD’S commandment ” 2 THS 2.  

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

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