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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • March 12, 2021 at 8:07 am#869684
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @Proclaimer

    You said:

    Yet you think the Father came from an earlier entity which spawned both the Father and the Son.

    No, that’s not what I think. I think the eternal entity gave of himself in order to beget a son through the process of asexual reproduction.. Therefore the essence within the Son was within the Father beforehand. The Son and the Father both have eternal essence within them.

    Since the Son has eternally existing essence within him, there was never a time when his essence did not exist. The reproductive process does not change the eternal entity, it simply reproduced another identical entity. Not to be confused with cloning another entity. A cloning process does not come through an asexual reproductive process.

    The eternally existing essence within the soon to be Father, became both a Father and a Son. The relationship began, the essence had no beginning. The Son, according to essence had no beginning. The Father went from being a Father-to-be to an actual Father with a born Son.

    Think it through.

    LU

    March 12, 2021 at 10:25 am#869687
    Berean
    Participant

    LU

    I quite agree with what you think
    I believe all the same that the Son has a beginning because at a given point “the eternity of the” divine substance “becomes Father and Son. Before that there is only GOD WITHOUT BEGINNING OR END AND AFTER THERE IS A FATHER AND A SON.

    Blessings

    March 12, 2021 at 11:29 am#869688
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj……Now as I recall you saying that the word was not Jesus>. Have you changed again on that? Please tell us again who the Word to you is then.

    Hi Gene,

    “The Word” (Ho Logos) is God’s “HolySpirit”.

    If one examines what The Bible says in its entirety, the facts become clear.
    But when you interpret the bible incorrectly: you end up with
    missing pieces you cannot explain

    “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
    the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HolySpirit” (Matt 28:19)

    the name of the Father …….. –  YeHoVaH
    the name of the Son …………. –  Jesus Christ
    the name of the HolySpirit .. –  The Word

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    March 12, 2021 at 11:30 am#869689
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You said:

    I quite agree with what you think
    I believe all the same that the Son has a beginning because at a given point “the eternity of the” divine substance “becomes Father and Son. Before that there is only GOD WITHOUT BEGINNING OR END AND AFTER THERE IS A FATHER AND A SON.

    Awesome that we agree on this important point. I want to get the wording as clear as I can so that what I think comes across correctly.

    Just as the eternal essence was the Father-to-be, the eternal essence was also the Son-to-be. At the moment that the eternal essence became the Father, the eternal essence also became the Son. The one eternal essence became distinctly two in person.

    One eternal essence, became two in person, identical in kind and perfectly united with one spirit.

    Blessings, LU

    March 12, 2021 at 11:41 am#869690
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj….. that he was a “GOD ” as you and other false teachers believe

    I don’t believe that.

    March 12, 2021 at 11:49 am#869691
    Ed J
    Participant

    Gene, You do know that bearing false witness is a sin, don’t you?

    March 12, 2021 at 11:57 am#869692
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj……Cleaver how you eliminate parts of a post , to make it out to be false, Satan himself couldn’t do a better job.

    Here is what you said Gene:

    “To all……what Jodi and I are telling you is the truth , Jesus is not the Anointing Spirit or Christos “himself”, …”

    Do you believe I miss-quoted your words?
    The Bible says: Jesus (himself) is the Christ

    “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?” (1 John 2:22)

    Sorry Danny, but Gene *IS* lying

    March 12, 2021 at 12:04 pm#869693
    Ed J
    Participant

    You laid it out perfectly.

    God bless,

    Danny

    Thank you Danny!

    March 13, 2021 at 4:30 am#869697
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj……..Clever,  but Jesus none the less is the “the anointed one’, but he himself is not that anointing that is on him , that anointing is what makes him a anointing one, who God the Father “anointed” with his Holy Spirit. If you took time and looked up where in English  it says Jesus Christ,  you would see in the actual Greek it say it this way , “Jesus the Christ ” meaning Jesus the anointed one. ‘ You have even said yourself Jesus is not the word,  that word is the anointing Spirit of God,  God was in Jesus by that Spirit Anointing that was on him, speaking to us though him , exactly as he did the prophets. All the prophets were Christos of God, or anointed ones of God. Jesus is said,  by Moses, to be a prophet, like he was. That means a anointed person like Moses was. “For the LORD shall rise up from among your breathers, a prophet “LIKE” unto me ,  and unto him shall you heed”.  Moses himself was a Messiah or anointed one of God also. As all the prophets of old were, and all the “true Saint’s of God are also the “anointed ones” of God too.

    And that scripture you quoted was added by the Catholic Church to push the trinity . The one that says to “baptize in the name of the “Father, the Son, and the holy Spirit.” ,  should read “in the name of the Son”. As the original Greek manuscript says, a little research would tell you that.

    Edj……the only one deceived here is you and some of your false teachings. You Aline yourself  with the rest of the false teachers by trying  hard to move Jesus away from our exact identity with him in God, by making him appear different then the rest of his brothers and sister and humanity itself. That is exactly what Satan expects from  his followers.  2thes 2, to turn the man Jesus’ “image” into A GOD, himself.  What side are you really on Edj, ?

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

     

     

    March 13, 2021 at 4:54 am#869698
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj…..if you say that Jesus WAS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT “HIMSELF” you are making him into a GOD. ,  Aren’t you?  Because, the anointing Spirit is God,  and the man Jesus , was the “TEMPLE ” that God was “dwelling in and speaking to us through” .  

    Here is what true believer are told.

    1Cor 6:19…..What know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which you have of God, and you are not your own?  20, For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God, in your body, And in your spirit, which are God’s.

    peace and love to you and yours………..gene

     

    March 13, 2021 at 9:24 am#869699
    Berean
    Participant

    God bless all,

    March 13, 2021 at 11:09 am#869702
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    Edj…..if you say that Jesus WAS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT “HIMSELF” you are making him into a GOD. ,  Aren’t you?  Because, the anointing Spirit is God,  and the man Jesus , was the “TEMPLE ” that God was “dwelling in and speaking to us through” .

     

    ME: Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto all: I indeed baptize you with water;

    but there shall come one mightier that I,

    the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to lose:

    he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

     

    Gene, Answer HOW COME JESUS BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY GHOST!

     

    John20:21He said therefore to them again:

    Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this,

    he breathed on them, and he said to them:

    Receive ye the Holy Ghost.

     

    Answer Gene, HOW COME JESUS GAVE  HIS HOLY GHOST?

    They received the Father’s Holy Spirit on Pentecoste NO?

     

    Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock,

    wherein the HOLY GHOST hath placed you bishops,

    to rule the church of God,

    which he hath purchased with his own blood.

     

    Gene, Answer; HOW COME THE HOLY GHOST HAS BLOOD, AND

    ALSO, PURCHASED HUMANITY WITH IT?

    Wasn’t it JESUS, THE SON OF MAN WHO PURCHASED HUMANITY WITH HIS OWN BLOOD?

     

    1 Peter1:18Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers:

     19But with the precious blood of Christ, …..

    Now read hearunder

    Acts 20:28 Wherefore Jesus also,

    that he might sanctify the people BY HIS OWN BLOOD suffered without the gate.

     

    ANSWER Gene,  Why The above says JESUS but in 1 Peter 1:18 It says, CHRIST?

     

    Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know most certainly,

    that God hath made both Lord and Christ,

    this same Jesus,

    whom you have crucified.

     

    Isn’t it clear for you, that Jesus THE SON OF MAN on His death on the cross glorified

    one substance with the Holy Ghost and became

    JESUS CHRIST well declared by Jesus Himself in

    John 13:31 When he therefore was gone out, Jesus said:

    Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

    32If God be glorified in him,

    God also will glorify him in HIMSELF;

    and immediately will he glorify him.

    IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS!

     

    Gene, believe it or not, it’s your problem,

     

    “THE WORD” Jesus the Son of Man, JESUS HUMAN NATURE, and 

    the Holy Ghost JESUS DIVINE NATURE integrated and became 

    JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN on earth

    THEY ARE NOT TWO ANYMORE BUT

    TWO IN ONE FLESH

    THE HOLY GHOST the Son of God, RECEIVED THE HUMAN NATURE Acts 20:28, John13;31-32 ABOVE and 

    “THE WORD” the Son of Man RECEIVED THE DIVINE NATURE John20;21, John13;31-32 ABOVE 

    ALSO DECLARED BY JESUS IN

    JOHN4: 36And HE THAT REAPETH receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life everlasting:

    that both HE THAT SOWETH, and HE THAT REAPETH, may

    rejoice together. (INTEGRATED)

    37For in this is the saying true:

    That it is one man (THE SON OF MAN) that soweth, and it is ANOTHER (THE HOLY GHOST)that reapeth.

    as you yourself

    CONFIRMED HEREUNDER!

     

    YOU: Edj…..if you say that Jesus WAS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT “HIMSELF” you are making him into a GOD. ,

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    March 13, 2021 at 5:36 pm#869703
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Berean,

    It must be Friday because, maybe I’m wrong but, you seem to put up a great worship song on Fridays 🙂 Each one has been completely different. That song was so peaceful, thank you!

    God bless you my friend,

    LU

    March 13, 2021 at 7:31 pm#869705
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj…..if you say that Jesus WAS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT “HIMSELF” you are making him into a GOD. ,  Aren’t you?

    Hi Gene,

    Q. are making him into a GOD?

    A. No

    But, because he is God’s son, it means Jesus is indeed Divine

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed

    March 13, 2021 at 9:22 pm#869709
    Berean
    Participant
    It must be Friday because, maybe I’m wrong but, you seem to put up a great worship song on Fridays   Each one has been completely different. That song was so peaceful, thank you!

    Hi LU

    yes friday night
    I’m glad you like it
    God bless you

    March 14, 2021 at 3:05 am#869712
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer: If you are qualitatively something it doesn’t mean that you are that thing.

    It means you could be that thing or like that thing.

    So then the Word could be a god, or like a god.  Got it.

    Proclaimer: For example, I am a man. Yes that means I am a man in nature and not the Man which was Adam.

    I made that exact point in the video using Adam and Eve.  Eve is a human, but not THE human Adam.  The Word is a god, but not THE God he was with in the beginning.

    Proclaimer: But someone could call me an angel and no I am not an angel, but like an angel in that I am good.

    Do you think John was calling the Word a god – despite the Word not actually being a god? Doesn’t matter, because either way John WAS calling the Word a god.

    Proclaimer: Let’s look at scripture. It says that God is a rock. It says that those of Jesus are light and salt. It says that Israel is a fig tree.

    Do you think John was using metaphoric language, calling the Word a god hyperbolically, but not really meaning the Word was a god?  Doesn’t matter, because either way John WAS calling the Word a god.

    Proclaimer:  But let’s run with your idea here for a minute and accept that Jesus is literally a god. Why do we not read in scripture then, that a god called Jesus Christ healed people. Or a god named Jesus rode on a donkey. Or a god was baptized. And what of other gods. Jesus said ‘ye are gods’. How come we never read that a group of gods challenged Jesus or that Jesus gave a large group of gods some fish and bread.

    Have you even read the Bible?

    Isaiah 9:6… “he will be called Mighty God”.

    John 1:1… “and the Word was a god.”

    John 1:18… “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

    Hebrews 1:8… “but about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.”

    Revelation 19:19… “Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to do battle with the one who rode the horse and with his army.”

    The beast is a god who leads a group of gods in a battle against the Word of God – who is himself a god leading a group of gods who fight against the beast.

    Proclaimer:  Mike, I would also like to give you some advice about your first video and your second which I haven’t seen yet.

    I suggest you watch the second video then, because it highlights the fact that heaven and earth are filled with many different gods, including the beast, who is “the god of this world”… and the Word, who is also a god that battles against the beast.

    I am curious as to why you bend over backwards to fight the most natural and honest translation of John 1:1.   You’ve been doing it for years here.  Why?  You know that the Word wasn’t THE God he was with.  And you know that the Word was “god”.  So why not “a god”, instead of the scriptural gymnastics you employ to claim that he was only “like a god” or “has qualities of a god”?  When it’s said that God is a rock, we all know that metaphorical language is being used, right?  Is there any indication in John 1:1 (or Isaiah 9:6, or John 1:18, or Hebrews 1:8) that Jesus is only being called “god” metaphorically?  If so, please share that info with me.  And make sure to @ me so I get the notification.

     

     

    March 14, 2021 at 3:17 am#869714
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed, I did a lengthy post a while ago on how the Word most certainly is Jesus.  You didn’t say a word to refute it.  But let’s start here…

    Who did John the Baptizer come as a witness to? Whatever your answer, that person is the Word according to John 1.  Who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of an only-begotten from the Father?  Whatever your answer, that person is the Word. It’s not rocket science when you let the scriptures teach you, instead of you trying to teach them.

    If you respond to me in the future, please @ me so I get a notification.  Cheers.

    March 14, 2021 at 4:33 am#869715
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike and all……The”WORD” OF GOD was and is Expression of God himself and represent who he is, just as your words comes from you and represents who “you” are.  The words of God is God because it represent who he is.   That is why Jesus said,  ““the word I am telling you are , NOT “MY” WORDS, but the WORDS of him who sent me.  That alone should tell anyone that Jesus himself is not God, or his word either.

    Now if I tell you someone’s else’s words that sent me to tell you them, am I that person,  who said those word?,  of course not,  I am a messenger sent from him to tell you “his” words,  as Jesus and the prophets were.
    Trying to make Jesus as the actual source of those words “himself”  is saying those words are from him and therefore he is A GOD. Nothing could be further from the truth. God the father clearly said “I am your God and there is no other God, you shall have no other God “BESIDES ME” .

    It’s one thing to say you are speaking someone else’s words , but it’s quite another, to say those words are actually your words.  Trying to say that, makes them that are saying that “thieves” and  “LIARS” . ALL WHO ARE TELLING YOU THAT THE SOURCE OF THE WORDS JESUS WAS TELLING US IS JESUS HIMSELF, WITHOUT A DOUBT , are “LYING” against the word of truth. IMO

    peace and love to you all and yours……..gene

     

    March 14, 2021 at 5:30 am#869717
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene AND all,

    John 1: 1 tells us about JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF
    THIS IS THE SIMPLE AND PURE TRUTH. REVELATION 19:13 CONFIRMS THIS.
    ALL THE REST IS ONLY “HUMAN” INTERPRETATION SORRY BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH.
    EVERYTHING WAS DONE BY HIM AND FOR HIM AND NOTHING THAT WAS DONE HAS BEEN DONE WITHOUT HIM.
    SINCE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN DONE BY HIM, THAT MEANS JESUS IS THE OMNIPOTENT CREATOR.

    God bless

    March 14, 2021 at 5:44 am#869718
    Berean
    Participant

    BUT ALL THE GLORY AND HONOR BELONG TO GOD THE FATHER WHO IN THE DAYS OF ETERNITY BEGOT HIS SON AND PLACED EVERYTHING IN HIS HANDS. LET’S NOT FORGET ALSO THAT SON DID EVERYTHING (AND STILL DONE EVERYTHING) IN COMMUNION WITH THE FATHER. THIS IS WHY JESUS SAID HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

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