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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • Author
    Posts
  • October 12, 2020 at 9:45 am#866757
    Ed J
    Participant

    Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.(Mathew 1:23)

    God bless

    Hi Berean,

    “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
    neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:17)

    Do you agree that according to John 14:17: the same God that was dwelling with them would also be in them?

    “Yes” or “No” ?

    October 12, 2020 at 9:49 am#866758
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  Do you agree that John the Baptizer made a statement about THE WORD in John 1:15…?

    Ed:  No

    Cool.  So let’s examine the issue and see who’s right, okay?

    The Word became flesh…

    Who or what became flesh?  “The Word”, right?  Okay…

    …and made his dwelling among us.

    Who or what made his dwelling among us?  Still “the Word”, right?  Okay…

    We have seen his glory…

    Whose glory have we seen?  Well, since there hasn’t yet been a change of subject, it is “the Word’s” glory, right?  And what did “the Word’s” glory resemble?

    …the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Ah… so it was “the Word” who became flesh and made his dwelling among us.  And it was “the Word’s” glory we saw, and that glory was that of an only son of the heavenly Father.  That’s what the text says anyway.

    John testified concerning him.

    Who did John testify concerning?  Well, we still haven’t changed subjects… which means we’re still talking about “the Word”, right?  So what exactly did John testify concerning “the Word”?

    He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

    Okay… that is a very specific thing John testified concerning “the Word”.  If you disagree, please show me where, in the course of verses 14 and 15, the Apostle John changed the subject he was writing about.

     

    October 12, 2020 at 9:52 am#866759
    Ed J
    Participant

    Mike,

    You need to answer my question first, since I already answered your question regarding John 1:15

    “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
    the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)

    Do you agree that since John 6:63 says words are spirit, therefore “The Word” is Spirit?

    “Yes” or “No” ?

    Then I’ll answer your next question.

    October 12, 2020 at 9:57 am#866760
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed:  Do you agree that since John 6:63 says words are spirit, therefore “The Word” is Spirit?

    “Yes” or “No” ?

    Absolutely not.  And an assumption that the word “word” (logos or rhema) always refers to the same thing in scripture is irrational, and easily refuted by the scriptures themselves.

    October 12, 2020 at 10:04 am#866761
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed: Hi Mike,

    “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that
    spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.” (1 Cor 10:4)

    “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
    This is the LORD’s doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.” (Psalms 118:22-23)

    Well would you look at that, Jodi and Gene?  Ed has already found two scriptures that confirm my pretend notion that God raised up Jesus from a stone – meaning that Jesus preexisted his humanity as a rock. 😂

    Hey Ed, how about addressing the point of that post?   IF God HAD chosen to raise up this particular seed of David (Jesus) from a stone, would it be factual to say that Jesus preexisted his humanity as a stone?

    October 12, 2020 at 11:12 am#866762
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike…..subject matter did change   it started out speaking about God ‘s word, comming to fulfillment,  the it goes from God to the “man” Jesus’ that is what you people are failing to see.  GOD’S DID PREEXIST, “JESUS DIDN’T” ..JUST THAT SIMPLE Jesus came in to his flesh existence when he c was born exactly like we are From a women, what God had long ago prophesied though the prophets , came to be the “flesh” man Jesus,  as far a Jesus being the word of God,  he never was God’s word m God and his word are “one and the same being”. When The Holy Spirit came to be “in” Jesus  then Jesus became a Son of GOD, EXACTLY AS WE DO.  That is t h e truth, believe it or not.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

    October 12, 2020 at 2:36 pm#866765
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    This is for both Gene and Jodi to answer.

    Is this statement what you believe, yes, no, or don’t know.

    The messiah’s name is Jesus and also The Word of God. He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God.

    Yes or no.

    I realise you will not an answer this directly because both of you are not honest people. Can you see the deceit in your heart now? You know your true answer means you lose the debate, so you prefer to ignore the question. Shame on you guys. God can see the deceit. He is not blind.

    October 12, 2020 at 8:09 pm#866767
    Berean
    Participant

    Edj

    You:

    Hi Berean,

    “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
    neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:17)

    Do you agree that according to John 14:17: the same God that was dwelling with them would also be in them?

    “Yes” or “No” ?

    Me

    Yes, the Spirit of God AND Christ would be in them at Pentcost’s day….

     

     

    October 13, 2020 at 12:09 am#866771
    Ed J
    Participant

    Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.(Mathew 1:23)
     
    God bless

    Hi Berean,
     
    “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
    neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:17)
     
    Do you agree that according to John 14:17: the same God that was dwelling with them would also be in them?
     
    “Yes” or “No” ?

    Yes, the Spirit of God AND Christ would be in them at Pentcost’s day….

    Hi Berean,

    It’s good when we agree! 🙂

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
    he will keep my words: and my Father will love him,
    and WE will come unto him,
    and make OUR abode with him.” (John 14:23)

    1 The Spirit of God
    2 The Spirit of Christ

    “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that (1)the Spirit of God dwell in you.
    Now if any man have not (2)the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9)

    October 13, 2020 at 12:29 am#866772
    Ed J
    Participant

    Mike,
     
    “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
    the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
     
    Do you agree that since John 6:63 says words are spirit, therefore “The Word” is Spirit?
     
    “Yes” or “No” ?

    Absolutely not.

    Hi Mike,

    Are you going to ask another question or give a speech?

    “The Lord gave “The Word”: great was the company of those that published it.” (Psalms 68:11)

    We know words were given, and they are spirit according to John 6:63. Here’s my next question:

    “The Word” according to Psalm 68:11 is “The Bible” – do you agree?

    “Yes” or “no” ?

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 13, 2020 at 3:09 am#866773
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all….. The spirit of Christ is not the “man” Jesus, it is the anointing Spirit of God the Father, that Jesus had on him, that he recieved after his baptizm, by John. If anyone dosen’t know that, they haven’t begun to understand the truth yet.

    The problem hear is people don’t seem able to “seperate”,  the “anointing” from the “anointed”.  JESUS IS NOT THE ANOINTING HE HAD “ON” HIM,  HE IS THE RECEIVER OF THAT HOLY ANOINTING  THE SAME SPIRIT OF  those who  also have been given it, have in them, also, the Spirit of the Living God.  It was that anointing Spirit that was following the Isrealites in the wilderness, not the man Jesus. Jesus did not even exist at that time. 

    The whole  idea the the “anointing Spirit of God”,  means the man Jesus is a blaintly lie.  

    Jesus is the “anointed” one , not the  “anointing” itself, that was on him. 

    Jesus is not the word of God, but tells us those words given him ,by God,  just the same as MOSES AND ALL THE PROPHETS DID?  They spoke the word of God to us all, “not” their “words” . 

    You people say you believe Jesus, them why not believe what he himself said, “then words I am telling you are “NOT” my words, but the words of him that sent me. 

    Peace and love to you all and yours. …………gene

     

     

    October 13, 2020 at 3:26 am#866774
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all.. …Why not try to understand what a “word is”. First. 

    Help for you , a words is an “intellegent”,  “utterance”.  Nothing more or nothing less. When you speak a word,  you are uttering you thoughts , you thoughts are being convaide to another from your mind.  “Your” words are a direct expression of you and only you. 

    God and his “words” are one and the same being,  Jesus is not God, nor are his “own” words God the Fathers words either, he has told us all that clearly. “THE WORDS I AM TELLING YOU ARE “NOT” MY WORDS, BUT THE WORDS OF HIM THAT SENT ME. Who here is not able to understand that?  DO you people really believe what Jesus himself said, it sure does not look like it. 

    Trying to turn  a Word  into a flesh person, only shows ignorant people really are.

    Peace and love to you all and yours. ………gene

    October 13, 2020 at 3:27 am#866775
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    I did answer you about THE SON OF MAN COMING IN HIS OWN GLORY, read reply #866735.

     

    October 13, 2020 at 4:52 am#866776
    Jodi
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    YOU:

    Jodi, is this statement what you believe, yes, no, or don’t know.

    The messiah’s name is Jesus and also The Word of God. He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God.

    Yes or no.

    And I realise you will not an answer this directly because you are not honest enough. Can you see the deceit in your heart now?

    ME:

    Proclaimer, I don’t read the verse and see it as you do, so your question doesn’t work. 

    Reading that verse and then reflecting on what Jesus’s name means, made it so clear, so obvious.

    Is not the NAME of our Messiah in and of itself THE WORD OF GOD?

    YES, it most certainly is!! JESUS = “YHVH IS SALVATION”, which is the word of God. 

    THE WORD OF GOD that we have been told all throughout the bible is “YHVH IS SALVATION”, which is our Messiah’s NAME!!

    Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

    his name is JESUS, “YHVH is salvation”, which is the word of God.  

     

    October 13, 2020 at 9:55 am#866777
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    Maybe one day you will understand and believe that Jesus IS THE OWN SON OF GOD (ROMANS 8: 3,32) I pray for this.

    God bless

    October 13, 2020 at 11:33 am#866778
    Ed J
    Participant

    To all….. The spirit of Christ is not the “man” Jesus

    Hi Gene,

    If you believe that, then you need to smudge this verse out of your bible…

    “Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
    when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11)

    The bread from heaven (Christ) being born in the house of bread (Bethlehem)
    This is talking about “The spirit of Christ” that Jesus was born with…

    “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of
    Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
    whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    October 13, 2020 at 11:36 am#866779
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: To all.. …Why not try to understand what a “word is”. First.

    ME: WHY NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND FIRST

    FROM GOD’S SIDE POINT OF VIEW AND HIS WAYS WHY

    JESUS IS 

    THE WORD OF GOD?

    WHEN WILL YOU AND Jodi GET IT INTO YOUR CARNAL MIND THAT WE ARE  DISCUSSING and DEALING WITH GOD AND HIS UNFATHOMABLE WORK?

    Isaiah 55: For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

    11So shall my word be,

    which shall go forth from my (SPIRITUAL) mouth: it shall not return to me VOID,

    DOES your word Gene, AFTER IT LEAVES YOUR CARNAL MOUTH, RETURNS TO YOU, NEVER MIND NOT EMPTY?

    but it shall do whatsoever I please,

    DOES your word DO WHATEVER YOU PLEASE Gene?

    9and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.

    DOES your word PROSPER AS WELL Gene?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    October 13, 2020 at 5:26 pm#866780
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Proclaimer, I don’t read the verse and see it as you do, so your question doesn’t work.

    Its not a verse Jodi but purely a statement worded by me.

    Do you believe that statement?

    Yes, No, I don’t know. Here it is again.

    The messiah’s name is Jesus and also The Word of God. He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God.

    Do not let deceit in your heart win again. Be honest and let light into the darkness where deceit lies.

    Is the statement true or false?

    October 13, 2020 at 8:24 pm#866781
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

    Jodi

     

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Greek
    58
    eipen autoiV o ihsouV amhn amhn legw umin prin abraam genesqai egw eimi

    BEFORE

    prin

     

    prin

    adverb from pro – pro 4253; prior, sooner:–before (that), ere.

     

     

    October 13, 2020 at 11:33 pm#866782
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    …Before Abraham was, I am.

    And they threw stones at him and some people are still throwing stones over that one.

    Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself…

    They were upset that he implicated that he was older, so to speak, than his natural age.

    People are still upset about that, including two members in this topic.

    It seems that the Pharisaical religious spirit is still mightily offended.

    They have been throwing stones from the beginning of this topic and way before that too.

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