Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 1,001

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

, , Questions & Answers, , , , , 25,950
Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 20,001 through 20,020 (of 25,951 total)
123…1,0001,0011,002…1,2961,2971,298
  • Author
    Posts
  • April 8, 2020 at 10:21 am#862694
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU:

    LET’S LOOK AT THIS LAST PART OF THE VERSION

    All things were created by him and for him.

    If you don’t agree with the “by,

    and you put “for”

    ME: That’s not what I put though, that’s not what I am saying. 

    First let me say that the passage we are speaking of is referencing specifically the man who SHED HIS BLOOD, who at the time of Paul’s writing was sitting at God’s right hand as the Son of Man who entered God’s kingdom as the firstborn of every creature. Paul speaks of that kingdom that the dear Son is firstborn of. 

    13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by (En –in) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:

    all things were created by (DIA- through/BY REASON OF) him, and FOR him:

    Berean, the passage does not say, all things were created by him, and for himSELF.

    THIS IS THE PROBLEM you have,

    Not only are we directly told that it was God’s word from the beginning of a man promised to come to execute God’s purpose for His creation, we are given who that creation was FOR, we read who received it, it is a man of the root and offspring of David who sits on the throne of that creation as a king of kings. God declared the END from the beginning, and that END was a BEGINNING itself.

    The same man spoken in the beginning is the same man who all things are for.  

    Do you pay any attention at all to what you are told later in Colossians Berean?????  

    who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence (first place). 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    ALL THE FULLNESS dwells in the firstborn from the dead because he made peace by his blood, without this man and the life he brings, God would not have made heaven, earth, and man in the first place.

    Jesus didn’t HAVE first place overall creation before “let there be light” was declared, he received first place upon becoming the firstborn of the dead.

     

     

     

    April 8, 2020 at 10:37 am#862695
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU: You need to keep this straight. Jesus was and is a human being according to many direct scriptures.

     

    ME: YOU NEED TO KEEP STRAIGHT INTO YOUR CARNALLY MINDED MENTALITY, WITH EVERY RESPECT. THAT

    JESUS WAS IS A HUMAN BEING IN GOD’S TERMS, NOT IN THE WORLDLY SATANIC CORRUPTED SEXUAL TERMS.

    ACCORDING TO MANY DIRECT SCRIPTURES HEREUNDER:

    Luke 1:16 And he shall convert many of the children of Israel

    to the Lord their God. 

    17And he shall go before him (THE LORD THEIR GOD)

    in the spirit and power of Elias: that he may turn the hearts of the fathers unto the children and the incredulous to the wisdom of the just, to prepare

    unto the Lord (THEIR GOD) a perfect people.

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answering, said to her:

    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and

    THE POWER of the Most High shall overshadow thee.

    And therefore also the Holy which shall be

    born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

    Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me that

    the mother of my Lord (OUR GOD. Luke 1:16 above)

    should come to me? 44For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45And blessed art thou that hast BELIEVED  because those things shall be accomplished THAT WERE SPOKEN TO THEE

    by the Lord. (OUR GOD!  Luke 1:16 above)

    Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt, go before

    the face of the Lord (OUR GOD. Luke 1:16 above) to prepare his ways:

    77To give knowledge of salvation to his people, unto the remission of their sins.

    78Through the bowels of the mercy of our God, in which

    the Orient from on high HATH VISITED US:

    Matthew 1:18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child,

    of the Holy Ghost. ( the essence of God) 

    19Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for

    that which is conceived in her,

    is of the Holy Ghost.

    23Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name

    Emmanuel, which being interpreted is

    God with us. 

    Answer Jodi,

    WHY WAS THE NEED FOR JESUS  TO BE

    OF THE HOLY GHOST?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 8, 2020 at 1:36 pm#862698
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Berean,

    Being in the FORM of God is NOT being GOD.

    Jesus is NOT God.

    I agree Jodi. What I don’t agree is your beliefs about his origin.

    It seems that some say he is God and others say only a man.

    I say, give Jesus Christ the honor that he deserves.

    • to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
    • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
    • Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
    • by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
    • He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
    • The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, 
    April 8, 2020 at 1:41 pm#862699
    Admin
    Keymaster

    This discussion doesn’t always link to the correct page number.

    I believe this has happened because many posts here were flagged as spam, so each published post helps keep count of the page number, so there was enough posts spammed to report the wrong page number, that is, the next page.

    I moved all spam to trash thinking this might trigger a recount, but that didn’t work.

    I still have the option of unspamming these posts and then deleting duplicate posts. This will probably fix the numbering.

    In case you are interested, I do have tools that recount all forums, topics, posts, and other stats. But it can only be applied to the whole forum at once. Because the forum has close to half a million posts, it actually crashes the whole server and leaves the website in an incomplete state.

    April 8, 2020 at 1:48 pm#862701
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    It tells us tha the Word that was with God was God. Seventeen verses later that God that was with God is the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, the unseen God.

    I actually knew you would say this. I have this page that answers this.

    John 1:1

    April 8, 2020 at 2:47 pm#862705
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

    Hi Jodi

    The Bible is CLEAR Jodi

    VERSE 1) “AND THE WORD WAS GOD…”
    VERSE 14) AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH

    BACK TO : All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Now examine this part:

    without him was not any thing made that was made.

    WITHOUT

    Grec

    5565

    cwriV
    choris
    kho-rec

    adverb from cwra – chora 5561; at a space, i.e. separately or apart from (often as preposition):–beside, by itself, without.

    3
    cwriV autou egeneto oude en o gegonen
    without him was not any thing made that was made.

    WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THINGS
    MADE THAT WAS MADE

    HERE NO “BY “OR “FOR” OR “BY REASON OF”

    WITHOUT HIM
    WAS NOT ANY THINGS MADE
    THAT WAS MADE

    WITHOUT JESUS
    WAS NOT ANY THINGS MADE
    THAT WAS MADE

    THIS TRANSLATION MAKE SENS FOR ME

    ALL THE BIBLE’S TRANSLATION ARE
    FOR THIS PASSAGE ARE OKAY

    Read well the last post of t8 (the link he gave)

     

    God bless

    April 8, 2020 at 3:35 pm#862706
    Lightenup
    Participant

    t8,

    You need a new and improved page. Try this one:

    Exegetical Insight

    The nominative case is the case that the subject is in. When the subject takes an equative verb like “is” (i.e., a verb that equates the subject with something else), then another noun also appears in the nominative caseąthe predicate nominative. In the sentence, “John is a man,” “John” is the subject and “man” is the predicate nominative. In English the subject and predicate nominative are distinguished by word order (the subject comes first). Not so in Greek. Since word order in Greek is quite flexible and is used for emphasis rather than for strict grammatical function, other means are used to distinguish subject from predicate nominative. For example, if one of the two nouns has the definite article, it is the subject.

    As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. The English versions typically have, “and the Word was God.” But in Greek, the word order has been reversed. It reads,

    kai; qeo;V h\n oJ lovgoV
    and God was the Word.

    We know that “the Word” is the subject because it has the definite article, and we translate it accordingly: “and the Word was God.” Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) why was qeovV thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article?

    In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: “What God was, the Word was” is how one translation brings out this force. Its lack of a definite article keeps us from identifying the person of the Word (Jesus Christ) with the person of “God” (the Father). That is to say, the word order tells us that Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father has; lack of the article tells us that Jesus Christ is not the Father. John’s wording here is beautifully compact! It is, in fact, one of the most elegantly terse theological statements one could ever find. As Martin Luther said, the lack of an article is against Sabellianism; the word order is against Arianism.

    To state this another way, look at how the different Greek constructions would be rendered:

    kai; oJ lovgoV h\n oJ qeovV
    “and the Word was the God” (i.e., the Father; Sabellianism)

    kai; oJ lovgoV h\n qeovV
    “and the Word was a god” (Arianism)

    kai; qeo;V h\n oJ lovgoV
    “and the Word was God” (Orthodoxy).

    Jesus Christ is God and has all the attributes that the Father has. But he is not the first person of the Trinity. All this is concisely affirmed in kai; qeo;V h\n oJ lovgoV.

    Daniel B. Wallace

    https://www.billmounce.com/newtestamentgreek1/exegetical-insight

    April 8, 2020 at 8:21 pm#862713
    Berean
    Participant

    T8

     

     

    AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD

    THE WORD WAS GOD

    I MEAN

    THE WORD WAS NOT THE GOD

    BUT THE WORD WAS OF THE SAME NATURE/FORME THAT THE GOD (theFather)

    Jesus:

    6
    oV en morfh qeou uparcwn ouc arpagmon hghsato to einai isa qew
    2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    3444

    morfh
    morphe
    mor-fay

    perhaps from the base of meroV – meros 3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts); shape; figuratively, nature:–form.

    WELL I UNDERSTAND
    What God was, the Word was.”

    Jesus Christ has all the divine attributes that the Father possesses;

    GOD’S NATURE/FORME= WORD’S NATURE/FORME

    April 9, 2020 at 3:21 am#862720
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Having an “atrubute” of God, Does not a God make, even if you had every atrubute,  it take more then just an atrubute, it takes the powers also.  Jesus never “himself” heald anyone, it was God the Father who did the healing, and the raising of the dead.  What you and others here fail to see is that Jesus had a God , who perform those healings,  and it wasn’t himself.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

     

    April 9, 2020 at 3:31 am#862721
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Good work Berean,

    What the parent is, so is the offspring. They carry the same eternal substance and are the same type and have the same abilities.

    God bless you, LU

    April 9, 2020 at 3:51 am#862722
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU:

    Hi Jodi

    The Bible is CLEAR Jodi

    VERSE 1) “AND THE WORD WAS GOD…”
    VERSE 14) AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH

    ME: 

    The bible is THE WORD of God, the prophets spoke THE WORD of GOD, and in later days Jesus Christ the Son of God also spoke THE WORD of God, Paul and the other apostles spoke THE WORD.

    In THE WORD of God that we read out of the bible, God gave many PROMISES, and each one of those promises is itself THE WORD of God.

    How ridiculous it is that you want to take THE WORD of God and reduce it to simply equate to God and deny it represents His WORDS that He SPEAKS of which are made true. How you want to VIEW and TREAT THE WORD, the bible might as well just open up and say GOD and that is it. 

    Jesus speaks not his OWN words, he speaks THE WORD of our Father. Jesus preached THE WORD, eternal life. 

    11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    28 And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Eternal life, and the Son of Man sitting on a throne with his glory, IS THE WORD, THE WORD spoken before the world even began. 

    Also below is THE WORD,

    Deut 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY WORDS in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    John 1: 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Berean, Jesus is THE WORD spoken by Moses that came from God as a PROMISE, made true in the man of flesh Jesus.  

    Likewise THE WORD that Isaiah spoke in chapters 11, 42, 45, and 61 is THE WORD of God made true in the man of flesh Jesus.

    This man is God’s WORD made true in his flesh, how God anointed him begetting him with the full measure of God’s Spirit, sending him out to save that which was lost and bring forth THE WORD, eternal life.

    John is a WITNESS to THE WORD of God made true in the flesh when he saw the Spirit of God descend like a dove and come to abode upon him, where by that Spirit begetting him he was FILLED with GRACE and TRUTH, for he received the Spirit of Wisdom, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD.      

     

     

    April 9, 2020 at 3:53 am#862723
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    THE WORD

    Acts 10:36 THE WORD which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) THAT WORD, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard THE WORD.

    Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

     

    April 9, 2020 at 4:19 am#862724
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    THE WORD,

    Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached THE WORD of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

    Acts 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear THE WORD of God.

    Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is THE WORD of this salvation sent.

    Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear THE WORD of God.

    Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that THE WORD of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

    Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified THE WORD of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

    Acts 13:49 And THE WORD of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

    Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is THE WORD of this salvation sent.

    27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that THE PROMISE which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

    THIS WAS ALL THE WORD of God FROM the beginning, how perfect as we are told this same truth in Isaiah 46, a man who God calls to execute HIS WORD of SALVATION, THE WORD OF ETERNAL LIFE, where a Son of Man saves that which was lost.

    THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THIS MAN, the son of David who died but God raised him again begetting him with His Spirit for all eternity, are justified from all things. They are those who have faith in the power of God’s Spirit to bring forth righteousness and eternal life to man, living in hope that they will be made into the image of God’s Son, the firstborn of many brethren. 

    So many despise this word because they have been indoctrinated to change the image of this man into that of a PAGAN DEMIGOD, and no doubt they will perish when the Son of Man returns in his Father’s glory because they will deny him.

    April 9, 2020 at 5:21 am#862725
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

    Jodi

    You

    It is ridiculous to want to take the WORD of God and reduce it to a simple assimilation to God and to deny that it represents His WORD of which He speaks and which are made true. As you want to see and process the Word, the Bible might as well open up and say GOD and that’s it.

    Jodi

    Don’t take me for a fool, God has revealed to me by the Bible that it is his Son begotten since eternity who is “THE WORD”
    It is so called because God spoke BY HIM to create the universe

    For BY Him were created all things that are in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, thrones, dignities, dominions, authorities. All was created by him and for him

    1:17 HE IS BEFORE EVERYTHING, and all things remain in him.

    IT IS BEFORE ALL THINGS
    AND EVERYTHING REMAINS BY HIM.

    WE’RE TALKING ABOUT JESUS
    IT IS BEFORE EVERYTHING.
    BEFORE ANY CREATION …
    AND IT IS BY HIM THAT ALL THINGS REMAIN

    4921

    sunistaw
    sunistao
    soon-is-tah’-o,

    sunistano soon-is-tan’-o, or sunistemi soon-is’-tay-mee from sun – sun 4862 and isthmi – histemi 2476 (including its collateral forms); to set together, i.e. (by implication) to introduce (favorably), or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively, to stand near, or (figuratively) to constitute: – approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with)

     

    Read this Jodi

     

    ABOUT THE SON OF GOD

    being the reflection of his glory and the imprint of his person, and

    supporting all things with his mighty word,

    made the purification of sins and sat at the right of divine majesty in very high places,…

     

    SUPPORTING ALL THINGS WITH HIS MIGHTY WORD

    WE’RE TALKING ABOUT JESUS
    THE ONE WHO SUPPORTS EVERYTHING THROUGH HIS POWERFUL WORD.

     

     

     

    April 9, 2020 at 6:57 am#862726
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Your understanding about the “word” of God being Jesus  himself,  came from many years of false assumptions and false teachings.

    Haven’t you even noticed you can even explain why JESUS SAID THIS , THE WORDS I AM TELLING YOU  ARE “NOT MINE”.  What does are “not mine” mean to you?   Why not try to simply deal with that, before you go ranting off, giving us you false assumption.  I think your really not listening to us or even,  what Jesus himself said about the words he was telling us. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    April 9, 2020 at 7:05 am#862727
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…. I know you try hard to explain to them from scriptures the truth here, but remember without the spirit of truth “in” them it’s almost impossible to do, it’s like the old saying , “you can’t corner a snake in a bryor patch. “,  But there is one good thing about all this, it does sharpen us up on the Gospel and how to deal false teachings, and it may bear as a witness later.

    Keep up the good work.

    Peace and love to you and. ……..gene

    April 9, 2020 at 7:14 am#862728
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    What you ask of Berean, you can learn from this passage:

    John 14:7“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

    8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

    Jesus is showing His “oneness” with the Father to Philip. If Philip would listen to Jesus and watch Jesus, He would hear and see the Father because what Jesus says and does initiates from the Father who is within Him. Jesus is perfectly in tune with the Father…they are one, not one in the same person, that would be an independent person. The Father and the Son demonstrate an inter-dependency of two persons, a perfect unity. Jesus is so perfect as the Son of God and as the Son of Man that He is speaking and acting in ways to show His perfect unity with the Father. That is a strength of Jesus’ to follow His Father soooo closely and so perfectly. We can all do better to speak and act as the Father would have us. We need the eyes to see and the ears to hear or it is not possible.

    Blessings, LU

    April 9, 2020 at 8:00 am#862731
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    John 1: 1 doesn’t say that THE Word was THE God, but that is how people read it.

    If it did, then the Word would be God to the exclusion of the Father. If you said, Trump is THE president, then that would mean Hillary is excluded as being THE president.

    Here is a commentary from Origen.  He was one of the most influential figures in early Christian theology, apologetics, and asceticism. He has been described as “the greatest genius the early church ever produced”.

    “We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”

    April 9, 2020 at 8:51 am#862733
    Lightenup
    Participant

    t8,

    Origen would have done much better if he understood the asexual process. He does not show a true parent/offspring in his explanation.

    April 9, 2020 at 9:41 am#862734
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I wouldn’t compare God to a cell or any created thing myself, but the origin of the Son being begotten might show us something useful.

    That said, Origen is talking about the Greek tongue and the meaning of the definite article. Obviously he studied scripture and not the dividing if a cell.

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 20 posts - 20,001 through 20,020 (of 25,951 total)
123…1,0001,0011,002…1,2961,2971,298
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

 

CREATE NEW TOPIC
POPULAR TOPICS
ACTIVE TOPICS
SITE SEARCH
SUPPORT US
REGISTER

Recent Replies

ALL REPLIES →

© 1999 - 2024 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2023 - Heaven Net
 Log in with Facebook
or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

 Log in with Facebook
or

Create Account