Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,11:26)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,11:16)Keith,you wrote:Quote Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. Pss 89:27This is spoken about David and accomplished because of Christ, as the Son of David.KathiBut the fact that Jesus is made the “firstborn” is proof that the term is…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,13:05)Hi Kathi:You say to Shimmer:Quote I have taken the liberty to rewrite the verses that you put up with adding the understanding of there being an unbegotten God who has a Son, the begotten GodWho gave you the right to re-write these verses?  Apparently, that is also what the translators who said that there was an…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,11:34)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,11:27)The unbegotten God is one unbegotten God, not two unbegotten Gods.  The early church fathers often use the word 'unbegotten' in reference to God.  The Son is begotten from the unbegotten God.KathiWhat is the difference? It is still 2 Gods.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 2…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,11:17)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,00:16)Keith,No one can be a firstborn and be the first of their kind.  A firstborn is not a first created.  A firstborn comes from another of his kind that existed before him.KathiThat is if you assume that “born” does not mean created.There are no examples in s…[Read more]

The unbegotten God is one unbegotten God, not two unbegotten Gods. The early church fathers often use the word 'unbegotten' in reference to God. The Son is begotten from the unbegotten God.Also, many translations admit that the Greek is monogenes theos instead of monogenes huios. Monogenes is made up of two words, mono which is an adjective and…[Read more]

Keith,you wrote:Quote Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. Pss 89:27This is spoken about David and accomplished because of Christ, as the Son of David.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,10:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,09:21)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:27)Here is one…Hippolytus: Dogmatical and Historical Fragmentshttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-18.htm#P3712_1172813These things then, brethren, are declared by the Scriptures. And the blessed John, in the testimony of…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:22)Here is one…Clement of Alexandria: Fragments Part 1http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iv.ix.html“There was; then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreate.” No…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:24)Here is one…Tertullian: Against Praxeashttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.ix.xii.html” because already there was attached to Him his Son, a second person, his own Word, and a third, the Spirit in the Word….one substance in three coherent persons. He was at once the Father, the Son, and the…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:27)Here is one…Hippolytus: Dogmatical and Historical Fragmentshttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-18.htm#P3712_1172813These things then, brethren, are declared by the Scriptures. And the blessed John, in the testimony of his Gospel, gives us an account of this economy (disposition) and acknowledges…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 20 2010,04:40)To all, “There is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10 “Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35 “Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39 “See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39 “Hear, O…[Read more]

Keith,No one can be a firstborn and be the first of their kind. A firstborn is not a first created. A firstborn comes from another of his kind that existed before him.

Here is one:Quote Theophilus to Autolycus Book IIhttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-42.htm#P1669_480398You will say, then, to me: “You said that God ought not to be contained in a place, and how do you now say that He walked in Paradise? “Hear what I say. The God and Father, indeed, of all cannot be contained, and is not found in a place, for…[Read more]

What did the ante-nicene church fathers say about the Son as the firstborn of/over all creation? Do they indicate that the Son was the first to come forth from God and then through Him all things came into being? Or did they indicate something else by calling him the firstborn of/over all creation (Col 1)?Put ante-nicene church fathers quotes on…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2010,23:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 19 2010,22:51)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,18:55)Hi Mike:If Jesus was begotten prior to his birth from the virgin Mary, please show me by the scriptures that it is so, and please tell me how he is begotten, from Himself or from whom?  How, Mike, how? I can't seem to get my mind…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:17)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:10)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:04)Hi Lu:”Unbegotten God?  Where do you come up with this.  Certainly, there is nothing in the scriptures that indicates this.Love in Christ,MartyMarty,If God always existed then He was not begotten by anyone…right?  Therefore He is the un…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:02)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,14:51)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,18:55)Hi Mike:If Jesus was begotten prior to his birth from the virgin Mary, please show me by the scriptures that it is so, and please tell me how he is begotten, from Himself or from whom?  How, Mike, how? I can't seem to get my mind to wrap…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,23:04)Hi Lu:”Unbegotten God?  Where do you come up with this.  Certainly, there is nothing in the scriptures that indicates this.Love in Christ,MartyMarty,If God always existed then He was not begotten by anyone…right? Therefore He is the unbegotten God.

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2010,18:55)Hi Mike:If Jesus was begotten prior to his birth from the virgin Mary, please show me by the scriptures that it is so, and please tell me how he is begotten, from Himself or from whom?  How, Mike, how? I can't seem to get my mind to wrap around that at all.Love in Christ,MartyHi Marty,What do you think…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 18 2010,13:11)Mikeboll said:Quote Could it be that Jesus was caused to exist at the crack of that very first day that they then both createdThe Father himself said that Jesus laid the FOUNDATIONS of the earth with His own hands (Heb. 1:8-10). The foundations of the earh were created before days were created. So Jesus…[Read more]