Professor,I am not surprised that the KJV put 'son' there. The trinity doesn't easily explain a begotten God. That is why 'one and only' has taken its place. I think that it is a subtle deception. The main argument about John 1:18 had been whether the word was 'huios' or 'theos' in the Greek. The NET Bible has reached a consensus that the…[Read more]

RM,Thank you for your story. I am so glad that he touched so many lives and is now at peace with God. Happy Birthday to your bro!

Hi Professor,I think that every time we see “Son of God” we can equate that to 'begotten God' because that is what a divine being would beget. So, 'begotten God' is in the NASB one time and Son of God is in there many times. They mean the same thing as far as I understand it. That is why the Pharisees thought that Jesus was making Himself out…[Read more]

David,I'm glad that you understood and agree.

Professor,This thread is entitled 'born and begotten' and I find it an appropriate thread for what I am posting. I know you and JA do not believe that Yahweh could have an offspring that was His nature exactly but I do. It is their nature that makes them both deity, the difference is one was not begotten and the other was begotten from the one…[Read more]

Professor David,I am not being deceptive, I actually believe John 1:18 and that the Son of God is the only begotten God. If that is deception, then Paul is guilty of that too.What is it you want me to go back and address? If the disciples call God 'Theos,' I think it is ok if I do too. If Paul calls the only begotten Son, the only begotten…[Read more]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 23 2010,10:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2010,15:26)David,I'm wondering why you can't say that the Son is the begotten God?  What is holding you back?  Would God beget less than Himself.  Does man beget less than man, or any does any example in creation beget an offspring of a different kind?Kathi,As for the second part of…[Read more]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 23 2010,10:36)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2010,15:26)David,I'm wondering why you can't say that the Son is the begotten God?  What is holding you back?  Would God beget less than Himself.  Does man beget less than man, or any does any example in creation beget an offspring of a different kind?Hi Kathi,It is basically the sa…[Read more]

Hi Mike,Thanks for the compliment.  You are pretty sharp yourself for only studying the Bible for two years now.  We do agree on many things but you say that the Son's nature is closer to God's nature and I say that it is the EXACT representation of God's nature.  According to Hebrews 1:3 we see this supported:NIV ©biblegateway Heb 1:3The Son is…[Read more]

David,I'm wondering why you can't say that the Son is the begotten God? What is holding you back? Would God beget less than Himself. Does man beget less than man, or any does any example in creation beget an offspring of a different kind?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2010,13:54)……….continued.We all agree (I think) that Jesus was the Son of God in a way that distiguished him from all of the other “sons of God” – of which we are all a part.  But how did he come to be “THE Son of God”?Scripture says he was “the only begotten Son of God”.  But scripture also says he was “the f…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,21:15)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2010,12:06)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,18:42)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2010,07:44)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,13:05)Hi Kathi:You say to Shimmer:Quote I have taken the liberty to rewrite the verses that you put up with adding the understanding of there being an unbegotten God who has…[Read more]

Ignatius regarding the one faith:Quote I have confidence of you in the Lord, that ye will be of no other mind. Wherefore I write boldly to your love, which is worthy of God, and exhort you to have but one faith, and one preaching, and one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ; and His blood which was shed for us is one; one…[Read more]

Well, Keith, I could ask you to tell me how many minds and wills the one divine being has and what the name of that one divine being is but I think we are getting off topic. I'm more interested in filling this thread with quotes about what the ante-nicene church father's understood about the name, 'Firstborn of/over all creation.'

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,18:42)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2010,07:44)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,13:05)Hi Kathi:You say to Shimmer:Quote I have taken the liberty to rewrite the verses that you put up with adding the understanding of there being an unbegotten God who has a Son, the begotten GodWho gave you the right to re-write these verses?…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,18:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,17:19)Polytheism would be those without the true nature of God.KathiPolytheism is the belief in and worship of other gods.Worshipping two divine beings is Polytheism.WJKeith,What is it called when you worship the begotten God as if He were the unbegotten God and the only true God?

Polytheism would be those without the true nature of God.

Keith,Most everything revealed about the Son was revealed after He came in the flesh. That doesn't mean that He wasn't the only begotten Son wasn't the only begotten Son beforehand. Most didn't realize that He was the Son of God till after He was raised from the dead but that doesn't mean that He wasn't the Son of God beforehand. Many still…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,16:25)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,15:35)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,11:34)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,11:27)The unbegotten God is one unbegotten God, not two unbegotten Gods.  The early church fathers often use the word 'unbegotten' in reference to God.  The Son is begotten from the u…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,11:24)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,11:05)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,10:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2010,09:21)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2010,00:27)Here is one…Hippolytus: Dogmatical and Historical Fragmentshttp://ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-18.htm#P3712_1172813These things then,…[Read more]