Pierre,That is closer to my understanding. I do agree that the Son did not come from nothing. I think the Son was in existence before He was begotten and was within the one true God. During eternity at some point, He was begotten and began His ministry as the begotten God 'of God,' He was a helper in creation and made appearances to men, Adam…[Read more]

Great Dennison…smile 4 unity!

That is great Pierre. God did create all things material and immaterial but He did not create them from a prior substance that always existed. The creator is able to bring about what wasn't before in existence by merely His desire to bring it about.

Mike,I asked for one question, you gave me two, I answered one. I didn't forget, you forgot that I just wanted one question at a time.Quote So let's bring this down to the brass tacks Kathi. Whether God begot, created, spawned or waved a “magic fairy wand” and poofed him into existence, the fact is that God “CAUSED JESUS TO EXIST”, right? Actual…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 06 2010,21:57)Kathiyou say;Also, about something coming from nothing…what comes to mind as an example are the many languages that God brought to those building the tower of Babel.  Many languages were created out of nothing but the will of God. that is not ;nothing coming out of nothing.  first God create man to t…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2010,21:09)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 07 2010,12:56)Mike,We have already discussed this and looked at the explanation of the NET Bible.  I don't think that either word makes a difference since I believe both words to be true.  He was the first one begotten of God of all creation and He is over all creation, not inferior t…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 06 2010,21:15)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 07 2010,19:07)Pierre,I find the writings fascinating.  For instance, if you were a child of a veteran of WWll, you would have been brought up with stories from first handed veterans about the war and you could somewhat understand the important facts of WWll because it happened close…[Read more]

Well Mike,As I said I don't think it makes a difference because both are true. He was not the second born of or over all creation or even before creation, He was the firstborn of the creation that came through Him and He became the firstborn before the ages and before anything was created. Eusebius says that He was the foundation of the coming…[Read more]

Mike,We have already discussed this and looked at the explanation of the NET Bible. I don't think that either word makes a difference since I believe both words to be true. He was the first one begotten of God of all creation and He is over all creation, not inferior to it.

Thanks Mike,I believe that #1 and #2 are not calling the Son a creature but the foundation through which creatures were created.#3. I believe that the Father AND the Son are together our creator. We are to worship the creator and both are our creator.

Mike,Obviously you have to use your reasoning skills. There is no way the Father could give someone an always existent status. I think you are trying to be difficult. You see honor the Son as you honor the Father differently than I do, that doesn't mean you are right. That is something new to the Jewish mindset but not unscriptural. The NT…[Read more]

Pierre,I find the writings fascinating. For instance, if you were a child of a veteran of WWll, you would have been brought up with stories from first handed veterans about the war and you could somewhat understand the important facts of WWll because it happened close to your lifetime and directly affected people that were close to you. Now…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2010,00:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 06 2010,10:34)Hi Mike,Do you honor the Son as one who has everything the Father has?I wasn't aware he did.  mikeMike,John 16:15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.All means all…truth, grace, might, power,…[Read more]

Here Theophilus speaks about the begetting of the Word, the firstborn, and the notes clarify that the Word was generated, not created, also that the Word was at first internal in God and that God was not 'with' God until He generated this Word, the firstborn of all creation.Quote CHAPTER XXII.—WHY GOD IS SAID TO HAVE WALKED.You will say, then, t…[Read more]

Hi Pierre,Theophilus, whom I am reading today, says the Word was generated and NOT created. Those things that were created came from nothing but the thought of God and made by the Word of God who had first been internal, within the heart of God, and then begotten, becoming the Word emitted from God. So first, God was alone with the Word within…[Read more]

OK, a new author for today…Theophilus.  He has captured my attention and is easier to read than some early Christian fathers.  Following is an excerpt about God creating through a helper…His Word which was begotten before the ages.Quote CHAPTER X.—THE WORLD CREATED BY GOD THROUGH THE WORD.And first, they taught us with one consent that God mad…[Read more]

I'm not sure if I had put this up by Ignatius where he is calling Jesus 'our God' in his letter to the Romans:Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that…[Read more]

Here is an informing webpage from the writings of early Christians. In it is mentioned the 'begotten God,' also talks about the fasts and feasts to observe, including Jesus' birthday and the Passover and where in the OT the Son is spoken about and/or seen.Quote the Lord Jesus sent on us the gift of the Holy Ghost, and we were filled with His…[Read more]

Hi Mike,Do you honor the Son as one who has everything the Father has?Did David have everything the Father has?

What is clear to me is that ya'll don't give the Son the same honor as you do the Father.For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, 40 so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. 41 5:22 Furthermore, the Father does not judge 42 anyone, but has assigned 43 all judgment to the Son, 5:23 so that all people 44 will honor…[Read more]