Hi Mike,Well congratulations, you have the support for your theory about not worshiping the Father AND the Son from those (maybe 10 or so) who don't believe the Son is divine or uncreated.  That would actually cause me some concern.  I would much rather have agreement with those that were disciples of John and the early Christians that died for t…[Read more]

Finally, I get to Athanasius to see what he says about the term 'firstborn' and he agrees that by calling the Son the First-born, God shows that He is the offspring of the Father and not a creature. Quote 3. He is then by nature an Offspring, perfect from the Perfect, begotten before all the hills (Prov. viii. 25), that is before every rational…[Read more]

Hi Mike,We talked about this when we were discussing the 'arm of the Lord' and I saw the Son as the 'outstretched Arm of the Lord.' Since then, many early church father's mention the Son as the 'Arm.' So, in that way, I do believe that the Father was giving credit to His Son without revealing Him as His Son which was to come much later. Also,…[Read more]

Dennison,Whew you did write a long post at the beginning of this thread. I agree with much of what you say. I certainly agree that the Son was not created or a part of the created beings. I do not agree that He was appointed though as you state here:Quote Psalm 89:27 I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the…[Read more]

Pierre,I don't know what you are asking me? Can you restate your question?

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2010,13:45)KathyHi Pierre,I am seeing unity among the early church fathers;;;WITCH ONE ???FROM THE APOSTASY?PierrePierre,God is very big and can lead you to truth as He has done for the early church. Trust God.

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2010,11:52)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 14 2010,09:42)Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2010,00:08)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,22:23)Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2010,22:42)KATHYYEA ,i have to agree with mike on this one,the fact that you ask to read it many times over and over ,why ? you have intoxicate your self with the…[Read more]

Hi Irene,Do you remember the great commission that Christ gave to the disciples…to go into the world teaching them and baptizing them? Well, would you agree that they obeyed that commission? It was very important for the teaching of Christ to continue on and I have found it very interesting as to their perspective on things like the Son being…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2010,00:08)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,22:23)Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2010,22:42)KATHYYEA ,i have to agree with mike on this one,the fact that you ask to read it many times over and over ,why ? you have intoxicate your self with the poison of lies ,WE ONLY HAVE TO WORSHIP GOD ,PierrePierre,If God had been giving…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 12 2010,03:58)Lu, you inspired me to write a really long thread, please tell me what you think about it?Just askin:  You are stating that we are EQUAL to Christ?does paul not say we are ADOPTED so that we may Cry out “abba”?Hi Dennison,I will look at it, thanks. I'm tired now and will check it out tomorrow probably.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,22:30)Kathi:Quote When I have been saying that the worship of the Son pleases the Father, Chrysostom is saying the same thing in the above excerpt.Are Chrysostom's writings said to be “inspired of God”?  He didn't say it better than you…….we all know that is exactly what you meant all along.  So to both you a…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2010,22:42)KATHYYEA ,i have to agree with mike on this one,the fact that you ask to read it many times over and over ,why ? you have intoxicate your self with the poison of lies ,WE ONLY HAVE TO WORSHIP GOD ,PierrePierre,If God had been giving me understanding and then I find a Christian leader that lived long ago…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,22:57)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,14:20), the executor of the Father’s unspoken will, the creator, with the Father,Kathi, this is a sidenote from your link referring to this Eusebius quote:28    Ps. xxxiii. 9. There is really nothing in this passage to imply that the Psalmist thinks, as Eusebius supposes, of…[Read more]

Mike,Sorry about the link…I fixed the link to Eusebius statement as to worship the Son as God. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf201.iii.vi.iii.htmlThere…happy now, probably not considering what Eusebius says that you don't want to accept.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,09:18)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,16:10)Mike,You realize that Eusebius worships the Son as God:Hi Kathi,Could you post the link for me?mikeHere Mike,These are some of the more important quotes that I found for you regarding Eusebius:Quote And besides all this, as the pre-existent Word of God, called into being…[Read more]

Well Mike (Pierre and Keith and JA might want to read this too),This is something I just came across from St. Chrysostom (i luv him whoever he is…we would 'get' each other's understanding). This sums up so much of what I have been trying to say but he says it better. See if this helps:Quote “And every tongue,” should “confess that Jesus Chris…[Read more]

Pierre,I understand that all praise and worship that we give the Son as the Son of God, gives glory to the Father.

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 12 2010,01:29)LU,As you stress your definition of “Worship” by Angels of Jesus – does it also occur to you that the Term “Worship” can also be translated as “Obeisance”.Check also that “Kings” are given obeisance by their subjects. And what is Jesus in Heaven – A King – and who are his Subjects.Also, Worship – ONLY GOD…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 12 2010,01:26)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,09:41)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2010,22:18)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,13:43)No God could be God that wasn't of the divine nature always and besides that God would have to be the creator and not the created.And this is an important point you bring up Kathi.  Jesus IS…[Read more]

Mike,Christ is the power of God so how could he be less powerful than God?1 Cor 1:2424 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. NASU