Hi Jack,David's natural father was Jesse, Solomon's natural father was David. God wasn't their father by whom they received their nature from. The only way to have a 'firstborn' type of relationship with David or Solomon by God was by appointment, not by nature. The only begotten Son is firstborn by nature before the ages, the firstborn Son of…[Read more]

Keith and Mark,Read this and see:Quote The terms “unbegotten” and “begotten” are interchangeable with the terms Father and Son. This follows from the relation of a substantive to its adjective. In whatever sense a substantive is employed, in the same sense must the adjective formed from it be employed. Consequently, if the first person of the Tri…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 26 2011,16:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2011,10:37)I don't think that the Father is ever without the Son but I think that the Son was not always being 'shone.'Hi KathiGod is eternal and infinite and his Glory has always been radiant because the scriptures tell us he changes not.Your above statement seems to imply…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 26 2011,17:01)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2011,16:26)Am I scripturally wrong in saying that Jesus is the only begotten god and the Father is the only unbegotten God?MikeYep, because that would be “two true gods” with each other and we know there is “Only One True God” and none other beside him. That is the scriptural…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2011,16:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2011,09:46)Mike,John 1:18 says that Jesus is 'the' God, the begotten God to be specific and yes that would mean that He is not the unbegotten God, that would be His Father.  It uses the article 'the' not 'a.'Hi Kathi,So far in this thread, we have agreed that TWO gods are mentioned…[Read more]

Hi Jack,I see the word as “let there be light,” the first word from God spoken as recorded in the Bible as you probably remember. So we understand the 'word' differently. We also differ on the idea of sonship. I believe that He was the Son in the beginning like orthodox Christianity…a true son, not something that became a Son.Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,19:25)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,22:18)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 23 2011,23:55)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,22:18)Saying that 'John was man' speaks more to his nature than 'John was a man' although both could mean the same thing.  That is what I perceive anyway.But either way, adding the “a” wouldn't add…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,21:03)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,17:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,17:11)Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant.  So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?KathiHi KathiNature, qualities, attributes, being, essence, substance, Yes.The essence of God (or that which distinguishes God from…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,21:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,19:34)Two are already established in 1:1b and there is no need of adding the 'a/an' because there aren't others.Two WHAT?Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,19:34)Jesus is God as the only begotten God…very God of/from very God, not a god as you want to insist. See?  Your answer…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,17:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,17:11)Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant.  So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?KathiHi KathiNature, qualities, attributes, being, essence, substance, Yes.The essence of God (or that which distinguishes God from creation) is “Eternal”.Jesus is “…the…[Read more]

So Roo,From what you write, you do not accept the Nicene Creed in its fullness, right? I thought all trinitarians accept the Nicene Creed in its fullness.Are you going to vote?Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,19:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,23:17)Regarding this:Quote “In the beginning was Cain, and Cain was with Adam, and Cain was Adam.”Uggg! Is this going to go on and on because this is not a perfect comparison It's not “PERFECT”?    What a cop out!  I was hoping you'd be willing to acknowledge what this ex…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,17:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,17:11)Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant.  So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?KathiHi KathiNature, qualities, attributes, being, essence, substance, Yes.The essence of God (or that which distinguishes God from creation) is “Eternal”.Jesus is “…the…[Read more]

Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant. So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?Kathi

Quote (Baker @ Mar. 24 2011,14:24)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,15:24)Irene,I wasn't upset with you, I just wanted this topic to reflect the thoughts of the ante-Nicene church fathers.  I wanted to keep it separate from the members opinions.  See?Sorry if you felt bad about it,KathiHi Kathie!  No, I really did not feel all that bad about it, an…[Read more]

Hi Keith,You said in the post above this:Quote Therefore it leaves us with “theos” in 1:1c as being qualitative, meaning “EVERYTHING” that God was the Word was”.Was the theos in 1:1b the Heavenly Father?If He was, then according to your statement that would make the Word the Heavenly Father also.I don't think that 'theos' in 1:1c means…[Read more]

Hi Keith,I get what you are asking. I would say that the Son was begotten at some time during eternity. I hesitate to use the word procreate because it has more than one meaning and has led to confusion. Let me ask another question…If the Son was begotten at some time during eternity, was He in existence in some pre-begotten form eternally…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,09:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,00:17)Quote “In the beginning was Cain, and Cain was with Adam, and Cain was Adam.”Uggg! Is this going to go on and on because this is not a perfect comparison because the word 'adam' is not the english word for man and this sentence is an English translation, also, the…[Read more]

I can't vote here…my choice is missing:I am the brother/sister of the almighty Son of GodorI am the son of God the Father Almighty, not His brother/sister.Those would be my choices (and I am not ALWAYS this difficult )And yes, I believe in an almighty heavenly Father and an almighty heavenly Son.So, sorry I can't vote in your poll, Mike.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 23 2011,23:55)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,22:18)Saying that 'John was man' speaks more to his nature than 'John was a man' although both could mean the same thing.  That is what I perceive anyway.But either way, adding the “a” wouldn't add “confusion, like you said, right?  If so, how?Mike,Enough with all these u…[Read more]